I realised today -I have been duping myself all my life. First I was completed by my parents. Then I was completed by my wife. In truth we are, each of us, alone. We do not intrlock in any committed , serious way, like jigsaw pieces with any other human.
We rub along, side by side but we do not interlock.

I always believed, nay ASSUMED that spouses should interlock, sharing emotional 'organs' as emotional single units. But my FWWs infidelity proved that we do not. The best I can ever hope for is a side-by-side partner in this life, not an interlocked person that I can trust and rely upon as I would myself.

This has saddened me. Of all the damage my FWS A has caused this may be the most grievous for me.

I was born alone, I will go to my grave alone. Only God will stay with me. I must consider all flesh to be transient.

I must relearn how to live alone without needing or relying on anyone but myself and God.

This is such a devastating realization to me I can hardly bear it. But bear it I must.

I am alone. We are all alone.

How very very sad. How lovely it would have been for my FWW not to have cheated and for me to go to my grave feeling complete in the love of another. I will now die alone some day, feeling alone, knowing I have always been alone.

I FVCKING HATE what my FWWs affair has done to me. She may never know that she has eviscerated me emotionally and spiritually. Right now I feel dead.
I am with her for my kids ight now. No more. Sh edeserved NOTHING from me, I can expect NOTHING from her.

I am alone. She is alone. We are alone. We can live as a convenience but we are alone.Dear God almighty, is this why you grew the clay tall ? That we may join conveniently without deliberately needing anyone for fear of betrayal ?
* sigh *

A bad day, sorry. I am SO sad and alone. If OM was here now I would kill him I SWEAR for helping to steal away my comfort and hope for all my life. He did not only rape my NOW he raped my then and my FOREVER with my FWW.

Even if she was making an effort to rescue our M she could do nothing to restore my soul where she killed it.

If she knew how she TRULY had hurt me, she could not bear it surely as a decent human being. fortunately for her I could never properly verbalize my loss. It is a sort of existential moan that provides the background sound to my every thought and deed.

Too sad. I am too sad. This is a waste of fvcking time.

Sorry everyone...I hope and pray I will cheer up. I just feel like I am playing at recovery today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ October 18, 2004, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

(((((Bob))))

I don't have any wise words for you. But, you know we're here for you. I pray that you find peace and hope today.

Bob, sorry you're in such a bad place today. But tomorrow will come and with time you may come to realize this could have just as easily been you. I know you and your W were exclusive from day one but just the same the shoe could have been on the other foot.

And I would challenge you on your theory of being alone. As much as my situation frustrates me at times I know there was never a time when either W or I was even considering throwing in the towel. The reason for that, I believe is because we do complete eachother. We still have a long way to go but having gone through this I know I can now have a better M than I ever understood was possible. And so can you.

I don't mean to have this everything is roses approach to you as I understand you are hurting very badly. But try to get some help to deal with this pain. Whether IC or anti-D's or a close friend. Maybe your W could be that confidant. Anyway it really can get better and you can have what you never dreamed possible. Yes, I do honestly believe that. Take care.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by walkingoneggs:
[QB] But tomorrow will come and with time you may come to realize this could have just as easily been you. I know you and your W were exclusive from day one but just the same the shoe could have been on the other foot.


HUH? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
I don't understand what you are trying to say. Infidelity does not just "happen" it was a decision that Bob's W chose to make. It can't be on the other foot if Bob does not put his foot where it does not belong. Sorry, but this really rubbed me the wrong way.

Bob, I do understand EXACTLY what you are saying and I feel the same way. I can live my life happily believing this. Our society has led us to believe that we must have another person to be complete. Sure, another person compliments us, makes our life fuller, makes us hgappier but we had better not depend on that person to BE our happiness. I understand.

As you said, the WS will NEVER understand the piece of our heart that they have ripped out. Even in a good marriage recovery, it will never be fully repaired. I believe that my H is committed to me and our marriage, but I depend on that relationship less than before I was betrayed.

I'm alone for about 3 days, kids gone, H on a trip, it's very lonely at my house. Thank goodness for closets that need cleaning and dogs that need cuddling! Keep your chin up Bob, you WILL be OK. Ladysing

Bob Bob Bob....

God wants us to be happy.... why else would he give us beer?

Bob, I am a BH, Did a successful plan A. Its been about 14 months since DDAy. 10 months since NC. I have been where you are at now, the anger and despare does go away.

I realised today -I have been duping myself all my life. First I was completed by my parents. Then I was completed by my wife. In truth we are, each of us, alone. We do not intrlock in any committed , serious way, like jigsaw pieces with any other human.

Yes we do, you are uninterlocked (is that a word?) now. First time in your life that you probably have been. Your state of mind in the M is in a state of conflict. As your giver in plan A has your taker hog tied. Reread the states of mind in marraige.

I was born alone, I will go to my grave alone. Only God will stay with me. I must consider all flesh to be transient. I must relearn how to live alone without needing or relying on anyone but myself and God

Not even God can be alone that`s why he created man. And why did God create Eve? So that man would not be alone.

How very very sad. How lovely it would have been for my FWW not to have cheated and for me to go to my grave feeling complete in the love of another. I will now die alone some day, feeling alone, knowing I have always been alone.

You will only die alone if you chose it. Even sitting alone at a computer you are not alone. Post a message and compassion flows back to you.

I FVCKING HATE what my FWWs affair has done to me. She may never know that she has eviscerated me emotionally and spiritually. Right now I feel dead. I am with her for my kids ight now. No more. Sh edeserved NOTHING from me, I can expect NOTHING from her.

This will burn inside of you until you can forgive her. Took me about 8 months.

A bad day, sorry. I am SO sad and alone. If OM was here now I would kill him I SWEAR for helping to steal away my comfort and hope for all my life. He did not only rape my NOW he raped my then and my FOREVER with my FWW.

Only if you let him will he have any of YOUR forever. You see Bob its up to you. You have just started to see what Plan A will do to a WS. But step back and see what plan A has done to you. With me, I found myself identifying and meeting the EN`s of just not my W but everyone I came in contact with. Didn`t even realise I was doing it until a friends wife told me I was a sexy man and invited me out.

You see that is the double edged sword of Plan A for a BH after he saves his M. He then realises that with the knowledge of EN`s he can be happy with anyone. Why should he settle for someone who betrayed him?

If she knew how she TRULY had hurt me, she could not bear it surely as a decent human being. fortunately for her I could never properly verbalize my loss. It is a sort of existential moan that provides the background sound to my every thought and deed.

She knows, I thought my W had no remorse. All I ever got was "I`m sorry" one time. I kept pressing for more because this really p!ssed me off. I stopped pressing after I found her suicide notes. Everything I wanted her to say to me was in them. Her guilt was so bad that her fogged up mind would have rather die than face the pain she caused.

After that I found the secret to recovering our M. Lighten up and have fun together. Stop obseesing over the past and start living again.


Hope this helps you Bob,

RG

Bob,

I have always loved the words of Kahlil Gibran. (FIM I noticed that your sig line is a quote from him.) I love poetry (major in college was English) but have never really fully understood his poems about love and marriage until now. Here is one of my favorites. I hope it helps you today.

Love

When love beckons to you, follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him.
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden.

For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you.
Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth.

Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast.

Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love.

Kahlil Gibran

Bob I'm so sorry you are hurting. I am hurting in this same way you are! I've lost a part of myself I can NEVER get back! He stole that from me and I am hurt and angry!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I NEVER thought he would do this to me and our family. I trusted him and was always so proud to have a wonderful husband like him. I now feel foolish, stupid, ashamed, angry, hurt, etc. I always thought we would make it. This could NEVER happen to us. I was so naive! I actually believed him over others when people tried to tell me. Yeah right, just friends! I'm so stupid! (sigh) Will we really feel the love we once had again? I'm doubting this very much. My H is even trying SO hard to rebuild and has had NC since I found out. This is just to hard!! I want to crawl in a whole and never come out. I'm hurting tonight here with you! (((HUGS)))

Bob you got problems..........Atleast you r in better strights then I am...........Do you know how I look at it...?Everything happens for a reason and there is nothing I can do about that......I love my wife with all my heart......But she did this to me...........WHY that is the question I ask myself.........I think of the guys in Irac spending 12 months apart from there family.....not knowing.....not being able to do anything for there familys.....wondering whats going on at home.....then I say to myself I don't have it to bad atleast I got my kids...my health and a mission.......you are and inspiration to me.........people tell me to give up on her then I think would she have given up on me if this was switched.........Who knows.......nothing beats a try but a failure.......I pray every night.....even for her....and for everyone here.....Hay you are the night and shining armor........love ya hang in there .....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I always believed, nay ASSUMED that spouses should interlock, sharing emotional 'organs' as emotional single units. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bob, Bob, Bob!!! I stuggled with this for a very long time during recovery, as well! It's nice to know that others totally believed in this illusion, and were as distraught as I was. Not that I wish you what I went through, BUT, nice to know I am not completely alone.

Have you read FinallyLearnings thread to JustLearning here on GQII? I did, and it explained a LOT of where this idea came from, and why I grieved its loss so. THIS was my H's and mine's "system" in our M. And it doesn't work.

I'll try and give an illustration, very basic, of how our MC explained it to me. If holding up two circles with your hands, as you bring the circles together (each representing H and W in M), the place that they overlap is the M. In a healthy M, there is individual space, and overlapping M space. In a troubled M, or M in crisis, the two circles are either 1)totally separated at all times and not touching, or 2)completely overlapped.

My H and I (I believe) were totally overlapped. That is how we thought a successful M was supposed to be. So, when H couldn't stand it anymore, and looked for his own individuality or space or whatever, he LUNGED out of the M space and into the A.

Very simplified version, but gets my point across. Well, after recognizing this system of M, for a LONG time after I thought, "Well, why marry at all? Just 2 individuals, who choose into the M, and can choose out, why get married at all? Why not just live together?"

I had the hardest time getting over the whole thing. I'm not saying you and I are exactly the same, but I SOOOO recognized your thoughts in your post.

So, what I want to say to you is 1)MC can help you A LOT, please look into it if you haven't already - the tools you will learn are WONDERFUL, and 2)it all gets better and easier to cope with the further into recovery you get.

I sense an urgency, or impatience in you, to get past it all, get over it all, move on. And you will, in time. Dr. Harley says recovery takes up to 2 years. And he knows of what he speaks. Take your time. You cannot speed up the prcess much, except with either MC, SH, or Marriage Coaching. But it is still a process, that takes time and patience.

You are doing great. I hope I have not offended you in any way. I am offering support and understanding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Keep on keeping on.

Spidey

Bob,

I may not be the best person to give advice. But, you are not alone. I feel so lost, so disconnected from the very person I with whom I have always felt unconditional trust and love.

Then after several months here of recovery, there are times (and getting more and more) where I feel even more love and closeness for my H than I ever had before. Give yourself some time. And give your W a chance to love you again. Believe me, I know its hard. I just think you are finally feeling safe to feel some of your truly sad feelings. I think you were too busy before trying to get her mind out of the fog. You weren't really thinking of yourself. Now you (and I and others here in recovery) have to do a lot of soul searching as well as rebuilding.

Just this afternoon, I was feeling bad too. Talking to my H helps sooo much. With every word I feel the healing. And pray that in our old age we will still be the little old couple still loving and being the companions in life that we all need to survive. After all, we are two people who came together as one in marriage, but as companions through this sometimes rocky but always worth it LIFE! As Garth Brooks says in our song "The Dance" -- "I could have missed the pain, but I would have had to miss the dance." (And this is mine and H's song. I read on their A emails that they shared this song too. Makes me mad as H@ll at the Bi@# and at H for not letting that song be OFF LIMITS! But, I refuse to let this ruin the first song we ever danced to - the first time we kissed was during that song. She will NOT ruin that for me!)

Can you see my anger. I'm feeling it. You need to run with your feelings too. It is your right and you need to let them out.

Hope I've helped. Writing this to you has helped me. Gotta get some sleep. Everyone else here is snoozing. Hugs to you Bob.

ng <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RG,

Love this line... We all need to print it out and post it all over the house!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After that I found the secret to recovering our M. Lighten up and have fun together. Stop obseesing over the past and start living again.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I need to make this my motto for everyday. This is the answer and the only way to go. Although sometimes hard to remember.

Love it! Thanks RG!

ng <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ October 16, 2004, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: naivegirl ]</small>

Bob,

The poignancy of your word leaves me speechless! I've read your post many times over the last hour trying to digest everything you've written. NEVER have I had my feelings so well articulated.

Oddly, as I sat here (tears streaming down my face), my grandson walked up and asked. "why are you crying pop-pop." At 3 years old, they don't understand (thank goodness) the pain adults inflict on one another, so I simply said, "pop-pop's just sad." I don't think I'll ever forget the look of love in his eyes as he wiped a tear from my cheek and said, "I love you pop-pop." It was as if God himself had spoken those words to me.

THAT'S what keeps me going...

Bob, I pray that you too find something to keep you going. My prayers and best wishes are with you.

Dear All

You are wonderful people. Thank you for your care for this sad stranger. {{{mb}}}

I will digest your sage replies and comment later.

* Frankd you shame me, sir. Your fortitude in the well of spite you find yourself in is a constant source of inspiration to me, it is true.

My only defence for my sadness in a situation that you would LOVE to be in yourself is that when you're in a sewer, you can't truly see that others are in deeper sewers. The slurry may only be up to my waist, not my neck as in your case but it sure does stink ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

All blessings friend Frank. And love to meagan.

Bob, you were just having one of those bad days. What we need to remember if that before the affair, there were also many bad days. Life wasn't perfect then. But it's different,I know. You should read back over your own posts over the past couple of weeks, before you went to Wales. You may be feeling like ****e today but you have been having some great days too. Just think back to your wife disturbing you in your office! The good days will return and I hope they start to outnumber the bad. TT.

Bob, all of us BS have been where you are now.

Recovery is difficult, at best. Something that one has always believed to be indestructable has been rendered to ashes. The price to be paid for the loss of innocence in a marriage marred by infidelity cannot be conceived. It is a kings ransom, at least.

Perhaps that is the greatest price. But that does not take into account the following:

Will we ever "see" the same person we married, through our damaged eyes?

Will we ever fully trust this person who betrayed us in every conceivable fashion?

Will the doubt of a "repeat" affair ever leave our minds?

Will our children understand and forgive the parent who forsook them for sake of the affair? Will our children carry some of what they've witnessed, the fights, the crying, the confrontations, the careless remarks, into relationships of their own, in the future?

Will relationships with others who "knew", or who found out, about the affair, ever be the same?

Will the day ever come when the shock, the pain, the grief, the devastation, the loss of self-respect, the loss of self-esteem, the loss of faith, the loss of hope and all the other emotions no longer creep into the mind of the BS?

Will the triggers ever go away?

You can add several items more to this list, but with the utter destruction of all we believed in, these affairs could hardly be more devastating to one's life. In spite of the fact my personal future was one of many non-specific, but most fulfilling dreams (hence Shattered Dreams), all of those came crashing down in flames once I discovered the affair.

I guess we are all left to one truth. It is up to us as individuals. We are sort of "on our own" again in this world. We know most of the truth about the A. We know pretty much how we feel about our own actions that may have left the marriage vulnerable. We know how much we've suffered to get "here", to today. And now, each day, we have to re-evaluate our own feelings, based on how our Wayward Spouses are reacting to our efforts to "save the marriage", and determine EACH DAY if it's worth it to go on.

Many times we read, all of this takes time. But someone wiser said, "it's not time that heals the wounds caused by an affair, it's what we do with the time". Truer words have never been spoken. But even still, your own Herculean efforts, spent over any amount of time, don't guarantee you'll get the marriage you once had back, or a marriage even better.

I guess it's all about "hope". If you can't believe something can and will happen, it's likely it won't. Hopefully, the contrary is true, as well.

Best wishes,
SD

SD & all. Thanks again. I'll be OK. Its actually quite empowering to have revealed the true nature of human existence while I am vital enough to act on it.
I must put ME just below God and my kids in the priority list, not somewhere between friends and pets ten places down.

My hurt because fo teh infidelity was in part my fault because I had duped myself into believeing that out M was a special thing that made SHE AND I into US.

It didn't. It made she and I into she and I in a contact of convenience and 'love'. While it remained conveneint and loving, it was OK by both of us. When it because less than convenient or loving for my FWW, she broke the contract.

I can expect this from her, any future partner I may have and even my friends.

I have trusted and relied upon others far too much.

That will stop now. I need to make contingency for when human frailty lets me down again. I must never put "all my eggs in one ( mortal) basket".

My expectations of what a recovered marriage can or should be have been modified by this revelation.

Sad, but true (c) Metallica <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Bob -

We are all alone in this world. That is just a fact. We marry and think the two become one, but even that is not true. Each person still has free will.

I have moved on without my husband (or has he moved on without me?). But my life is good again, and I look forward to each new day. This experience can either make you or break you.

I hope you will decide to have a wonderful life.

Believer your example is one that makes me realise that I will be happy at teh end of this mess, whether M or not. Also an example that teaches me that I need not endure or tolerate an unfulfilling M .

And glad to see we agree - we are, each of us, fundamentally alone. There is no spiritual 'US' when married, certainly not after vows are broken.

Bob -

It is because of this affair that you have and will continue to grow, as a person in the most spiritual of senses. And also in the most human of senses.

Your capacity to love has just been increased 10 fold. Through your pain, your eyes have been opened, your relationship with our God has been strengthened, the ability to "truly" love another has been given to you.

When you get past all the muck, you will be thankful for the affair that brought you to your knees, because now you have it in you to be great.

Before, you were merely going through the motions. Now you are humbled and through your humility and pain you have a great deal to offer others.

So give thanks, because you were chosen to be weakened and from that you can become truly strong.