This is my first post on this site...I have been readingit for a couple of weeks at my wifes request. It has been helpful. Most of the posts I have read have been from the betrayed...I am the betrayer. For 21 years I was a faithful husband, I took great pride in that. In this age of failing marriages, mine worked. I love my wife, still. I want to do what is right and I struggle with it by the moment.

When my wife found out about my a, she also admitted to one a few years back. She did this not to hurt, but to make me feel ot so alone. I had always suspected, in fact it was accidentally revealed to me during the period, but I chose to ignore, knowing I was in no danger of losing her. She could of kept it quiet, and I am grateful to her about it.

To any guilt ridden WS, how did you end it, what made you do it? I know I'm being used, I know there is no future, there really isn't even much of a pa. I just want to help her get back, to get her back to her family...and its all stuff I can't handle (deep resounding fog horn in background). She is a crack addict. She keeps saying all the right things and I keep doing all the wrong things, I feel as addicted as she does. Meanwhile, the bw sits back with the patience of Job while I continue to hurt her. I feel like the lowest piece filth on the earth. I have such feelings of anger at her for her indiscretion, for her drinking, the guilt of doing what I want to stop. Any advice would be most welcome. I feel like I've swum out to far.

I have no help to offer you, really, just wanted to let you know that you are in the right place here at mb. There are many WHs and WWs here on this site who will come to you and help you. They are wonderful people. Keep reading and posting here and READ THE BOOKS. Then you will know what to do and how to do it and the people here will give you support and advice.

I wish my H were to this point. I would give anything if he were wanting to save our M and try to do the right thing. But he's not to that point yet. I live in hope someday he will do just what you have done - read and post here so we can be together again.

Weekends are kind of slow here, so don't be discouraged. Bump this up to the top again tomorrow morning for some replies and help. Good luck.

surrounded - I am a BS so not exactly what you were seeking. I am not judging you just giving you some perspective / being honest with what I have heard from your posting.

It's good that you realise what you are doing is not approriate.

As for how to stop, well I think that you should read your own post as you articulated it perfectly.
1. "I know I'm being used, I know there is no future, there really isn't even much of a pa."

2. "Meanwhile, the bw sits back with the patience of Job while I continue to hurt her. I feel like the lowest piece filth on the earth"

Also, the love for you wife and saving your M should be paramount here.

It's nice that you wish to help the OW, but not at the expense of your own M? Surely your wife must come first here.

Your wanting to help the OW sounds a little like fog babble to me because it sounds like you are using this excuse to justify continued contact and the A to yourself.

Having an A with this girl is akin to a psychologist sleeping with a patient, it's dangerous and that's why it's illegal.

As how to how to break this addiction

1. Please get this girl some professional help and break all contact with her NOW / ASAP. Call a church or drug group, they will be able to help.

2. Ask your BS for help as she will understand your situation (having been in an A herself). BS will probably do everything she can to help you if you are "genuine".

3. Go see a pro-marriage counsellor as they can help with your addiction to the A.

4. Read info on website and books like SAA, HNHN, etc.

Ask yourself how you would feel if you lost your wife as a result of this A? Your wife will not put up with this indefinitely, and each day takes you a step closer to loosing her!!! I speak from experience as my WW has chosen the same path as you are presently on. I was patient with WW, but eventually my patience ran out and I made some tough decisions. I can assure you that as a result she is not in a very happy place right now. (Well neither am I)

Please understand that your marriage should be priority number one. Whilst you are "helping" the OW, realise that you are seriously undermining your own chances of recovery through continued contacts.

<small>[ October 18, 2004, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: RenaissanceMan ]</small>

Are you restarting's H?

^^ BUMP ^^

BUMP

Please help out surrounded?

Welcome surrounded. Glad you joined us. Have you read everything your betrayed wife--I don't wish to abbreviate, I want you to read those words--has been posting? She loves you and is convicted and committed to making your M work.

This is my first response to her:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah...the Knight in Shining Armor Syndrome...Know it well. Being an addict? Know that too well, also.

Welcome, restarting. You're off on the right foot, here. By being here, and the wonderful responses to youur situation...You have a lot of issues and its very obvious you want to work through them. Excellent for you! Keep posting and you'll get some invaluable insights--and just the fact you have someonwhere to turn to with people who have BTDT.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say that helping is hurting, bc it just delays the desire of the addict to want and seek help.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ABSOLUTELY! Enabling. Because of how *you* described it, I would say--NEVER EVER AGAIN PICK UP ANOTHER DRINK IN YOUR LIFE!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've been lurking, I'm presuming. Did you find out that A's are addictions? To you I respond: NEVER CONTACT THAT WOMAN AGAIN IN YOUR LIFE!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by surrounded:
I want to do what is right and I struggle with it by the moment...I know I'm being used, I know there is no future, there really isn't even much of a pa. I just want to help her get back, to get her back to her family...and its all stuff I can't handle...She is a crack addict.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">21 years? And you don't know what's "right?"
OK, OK. I know it's difficult in the fog-laden atmosphere you have created for yourself. However, you are starting to put things in perspective...21 years??? I'm going to ask you a question: If you know all of this, from your own words, why do you continue?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She keeps saying all the right things and I keep doing all the wrong things...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like you even said, this is YOU.

How, is really what you asked...It's a matter of choice, my friend. Right now, you continue to choose down the path of self-destruction. (Don't all addicts do that?) But you are showing signs:

CHOOSE no contact...NOW!

CHOOSE the right thing to do. If it helps any, in your no contact letter you will right (or is that "write" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), offer her addresses and numbers of some drug abuse hotlines/clinics. Just like your situation, you can NOT help an addict if they don't wnat to help themselves.

CHOOSE counseling.

CHOOSE not to throw away 21 years of M to your wonderful W and family.

CHOOSE to work at something; not take the easy way out. Isn't that what 99% of addictions are about? Escaping? Not addressing real issues?

CHOOSE to continue to post here. As I told restarting, many people here can offer invaluable insights (and some swift kicks in the [censored].)

Best wishes to the both of you.

(PS If it helps to know any, there are also many couples here, such as brown and myself.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by surrounded:
<strong> In this age of failing marriages, mine worked. I love my wife, still. I want to do what is right and I struggle with it by the moment. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Read what you wrote. You love your wife. Your marriage worked. You want to do what is right.

Then DO it. If you've been reading here for a couple of weeks- you know what that means. NO CONTACT. Period.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by surrounded:
<strong>
To any guilt ridden WS, how did you end it, what made you do it? I know I'm being used, I know there is no future, there really isn't even much of a pa.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now read this. You know you're being used- that there is no future- that there really isnt' even much of a PA.

Now go back and re-read what your wrote about your wife.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by surrounded:
<strong>
I just want to help her get back, to get her back to her family...and its all stuff I can't handle (deep resounding fog horn in background). She is a crack addict. She keeps saying all the right things and I keep doing all the wrong things, I feel as addicted as she does. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are addicted. You must go COLD TURKEY. Her problems are not your problems.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by surrounded:
<strong>

Meanwhile, the bw sits back with the patience of Job while I continue to hurt her. I feel like the lowest piece filth on the earth. I have such feelings of anger at her for her indiscretion, for her drinking, the guilt of doing what I want to stop. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure I understood the last sentence. Are you angry at your wife? Or at someone else?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by surrounded:
<strong>

Any advice would be most welcome. I feel like I've swum out to far. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My advice- NO CONTACT.

Seriously, I know this is harder then I'm making it sound- but in your own words- you LOVE your wife- and you see no future with the crack addicted OW. You need to step up to the plate, here, and prove to your wife that you do love her-and that means going to NC with the OW.

Surround,

Was just going to log off when I saw that you were restarting's WH.

First of all you CANNOT help a crack addict. Period.

And like Sad said, the only way to break your addiction to OW is cold turkey. Period.

Now with that said, it is good that you are here. Stay here and keep talking, the only way to beat this is straight through it.

All the addicts I know that have beaten their addictions and become better people for it did it with the help of God. Ask Him to help you, ask him to take away your pain. He will, all you have to do is ask.

I used to walk around all day asking God to take away my pain, and then asking Jesus to take away my pain because I thought maybe Jesus would intervene on my behalf & that God might be getting sick of me. And you know what? One day the pain was gone. Then I would walk around all day asking that He give me strength, and one day I WAS stronger.

Now I ask Him to show me how I can be of service, and HE does. And now I am truly happy (well mostly).

Bless you Surround and thank you for being here at MB.

weaver

surrounded.

YOU CAN NOT HELP A CRACK ADDICT.

The only things that can save a crack addict are the following;

a) Direct intervention from God.

b) Repeated trips to the floor, bottoming out.

Recovery for an addict begins when the ADDICT DECIDES to recover.

Since you can't help her, what the above means to you is one or more of the following.

a) You are using her neediness as an excuse to continue an affair that you KNOW IS WRONG.

b) You are using drugs yourself and the affair is cover for your use.

Which is it?

At this point in time, what your wife has done is immaterial. You can deal with that AFTER you have done the right thing. She already has. When are you going to do the right thing?

You can NEVER talk to this girl again. Her life is a pit of pain that you can't fix. STOP ADDING TO HER PROBLEMS. By having an affair with her, you are EXACERBATING HER PROBLEM. You are most certainly not helping her.

What you need to do right now, is to stop all contact with this person, and immediately see to the needs of your wife. She DOES NEED YOUR HELP.

You can do this surrounded, just make the choice.

Gimble

needs other WS to comment. Me and other BS not quite what he needs right now.

Please advise: tell him how ordinary what he's going thru is. Tell him what to expect from OW, BS, other, himself, the future.

This is what he needs....

Please help him.

The road not taken..

Two roads diverge in a yellow wood
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth


Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim
Because it was grassy and wanted wear
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way
I doubted if I should ever come back

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence
Two roads diverged in a wood and
I~
I took the road less travelled by,
And that has made all the difference.
--Robert Frost

So here is an overused..yet applicable sentiment..

For your consideration.

Are you honest with yourself?

Do you truly realize that you can not have both your lover and your wife? That you must choose..and one will be dealt with treacherously? Do you realize that you have created a situation where someone will bleed because of your actions? It is not avoidable.

So honestly..

Will it be your wife or your lover who is dealt the blow?

You can not save this woman and you know it. If you do not know it you are playing the fool. Playing it willingly. Do not be foolish. Be a man. An adult. If you want to save something..how about giving your marriage an injection of care, consideration?

Are you using drugs with her?

You must realize..that you will have regrets either way. No matter what you choose you will suffer loss.

You are showing less consideration for your wife [whom you supposedly love] than for your lover [who you have asserted is using you].

Every contact that you have with your lover twists a literal knife in your wifes gut. Is that alright with you? If you are so willing to injure your wife can you think of any reason that she should desire to remain married to you?

Do you like to think of your wife in the arms of another man? Would you like for that to become reality? Would you like to have nothing but your lover for the rest of your life..or until she manages to kill herself one way or the other..and then be alone with neither?

If you choose your lover..your wife will move on.

If you choose your wife..you must put your affair to the death it deserves.

There is no other option.

So..what is it going to be?

See..this is not complicated at all.

Choose your lover..set free your wife, leave her to her fate.

Choose your wife..set free your lover, leave her to her fate.


The only struggle here is that..truly..you do not want to choose.

Choice is a priviledge..if you are incapable..the choice will be made for you..and you will have no..none..zip..zero control over the outcome. Do you believe this?

So stop rationalizing. Stop pleading your lovers case. You are in over your head..choose to walk toward shore..or be lost in the tide.

It will make all the difference.

--Noodle

<small>[ October 18, 2004, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: noodle ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by restarting:
[QB] needs other WS to comment. Me and other BS not quite what he needs right now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">restart, I may be mistaken, but the majority of posters WERE WS's. (Even so, we have been there--all of us, and he DOES need to know what you are feeling--from your point of view, from a different voice.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please advise: tell him how ordinary what he's going thru is. Tell him what to expect from OW, BS, other, himself, the future.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it is "normal" for a wayward spouse to be going through this waffling, fog, BS that we put you and brown and any other betrayed spouse through.

What Noodle (HEY! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) and I are trying to say is, that it's ALL free will. The freedom to decide and choose. There are only two choices: marriage, your W, and your kids...OR...the OW. No in between and, YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH! What you can have...well, I'm not going to tell you...you know best about your own M, don't you? And if you are both committed (check out HNHN), it will only be multiplied by thousands the foundation you have already built.

The OW and your A? Built on, based on, and will ALWAYS be a pack of lies.

Like noodle said, though, you need to decide before restarting does for you.

First thank you, all, for the replies and input. It really does help to have like minded people listening. and to theperson who posted Frost, my favorite poem, native Vermonter and state poet!

Someone was confused as to whom I was angry at, wife or OW...answer...BOTH!

Someone aslo mentioned, the knight in shining armour...exactly! And this damn suit is so hot my sweat is ruining the joints....I want out.

As for personally using drugs....none except alchol since 1982, last time I smoked pot. Last time severly drunk..March 2, 2002, my 40th birthday. I drink, but hate anything that alters my sense of reality. Thats why I'm having a hard time dealing with the prescriptions the doctor gave me.

One of my biggest problems is this..I run my own business, advertise in yellow pages (to anyone thinking of doing this...DON'T, too expensive)
I have no problem changing personal cell phone number, just can't change business number to unlisted...would kinda defeat purpose of paying $650 a MONTH! She insists...offered an answering service, I said I'd look into it.
Finding time is the hardest part. Trying to make up money I pissed away on OW.

All of this goes against my personality, I am a very private person, became very irate when W posted who she is...didn't want a he said she said...

Someone else mentioned that my insistance that she quit drinking and get help was a way to redirect...I've considered this also. But, been asking for about 10 years now. If i planned on leaving here, I really wouldn't care as much as I do. Wife is rather petite (beautiful!) woman who is severely effected by alchol. Smalles amount and she is legally drunk. Was very drunk on nights she went home with her OM....drove home that way, scares the heck out of me.

Haven't seen anything posted that wasn't extremely acurate....you offer much insight..thank you.

Surrounded- I don't know who your wife is here- so my comments are not based on anything other then on what you are telling us. Good for you for not running screaming from the 2x4's that were swung at you.

A couple of things: If finding an answering service will help your W- and help with NC- FIND the time. Perhaps your W can place some calls for you to see how much it would run? Also- if you haven't already- change your cell # asap.

Good luck.

all this just gets so mucked up...

wallowed in excuses and reasons and rationalizations....

the bottom line for every lost-soul here...be them BS or WS is

Is what is it you want....??????????????????????

do you want to be married...
and
do you want a marriage that is equal and fullfilling to both...

then based on that answer...and that answer alone....you move from there doing everything in your power to make it so....

it's your decision...
it's a choice.....

if you want a healthy marriage...then cut the stuff that hinders a healthy marriage...
and build on the stuff that does....

pick your boundaries.
know thyself ...and what you will and will not tolerate...and move from there...

there's no magic
there's no other route...

if you choose a healthy marriage..then change your thought patterns to be first ..
will this action or move be something that serves my marriage and my spouse....and make moves only in the direction that does so..

regardless of the emotions and feelings.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

regardless of hardship...

big picture
big vision....
do you want to be married....
if you answer yes...

then ACT like it....

ARK

I agree with sadfww--glad you stayed after the 2x4's! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> BUT, they really weren't, were they? They are YOUR perception of what your reality is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Someone aslo mentioned, the knight in shining armour...exactly! And this damn suit is so hot my sweat is ruining the joints....I want out.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your choice, right? To move along with this analogy and take it even one step further...you really want out of there before you are rusted shut. And either, like you said, your sweat (and blood) are going to rust it, or restarting and your children's (even though they are adults) tears are going to. Again, your choice.

Regarding your business...I have my own theories what you could do--again, your perception would have to change--but I'm not going there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All of this goes against my personality, I am a very private person, became very irate when W posted who she is...didn't want a he said she said...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to understand this: when an A "happens", there is no more privacy. This is something you caused by the choices YOU made. And regarding this site? I have yet--maybe I'm naive or mistaken--but I have yet to be on a more secure, "private" site.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But, been asking for about 10 years now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is important--not because of the choice you made to have an A, but it probably was a contributing factor. Which is why I mentioned HNHN and the questionaire. You guys should check it out and fill it out--and follow up on it. BUT, it IS separate from the A you are having.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...but hate anything that alters my sense of reality.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like sadfww said, take a minute, and read these words to yourself. Says alot, huh?

It's tough--nobody ever said doing the right thing was easy--that's how A's start! But it's worth it. You and restart DO have alot going for you--it's not hopeless, but it is work and requires committment, dedication, for better or worse...sound familiar?

Keep with us--we have plenty of 2x4's! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

bump

bump

again - hoping he'll go this way and not another...

bump