Around the same time that my FWH came home, in eary April, from our 3 month separation, one of his coworker/friends, one of my cooking clients (they are the same person), found out his wife was having an A with her boss. She summarily told him, and moved out.

I suspected adultery, because of my experiences here, and all the many books I have read. When I would cook at their home, I saw things. My H heard things at work, and DIDN'T hear things because doors were closed for long periods. And our friend the BS began losing the weight.

I did point the man here, for assistance. He is French, and I don't know if it was a language issue, cultural issue, but he thought he read somewhere here that women WS's NEVER came back to the M, and he felt discouraged and doesn't come here anymore (that I know of).

A month or so later, she moved back home. Our friend was sooo happy. I was cautious, because she continued working with this man (the OM's W and kids left and moved back to Texas, and he is also French - weird!). Sure enough, after a few weeks, she was off again, and now he is told to expect D papers.

That brought up lots of stuff for me.

This morning, my H's good friend, probably his only "confidante" during the A except the OW, IM'd me and told me he installed key logger, and is now 100% certain of the PA between his W and her old high school BF in Michigan. I suspected this was an A, as well. He didn't think so. Now he knows.

They tried going to our MC, but she was totally just going through the motions. She is so deep in the fog. And now he is so angry and hurt. I have directed him here, too, but I don't know if he will come. She has wanted a D, and wanted kids, house, van, her H to babysit while she worked! So foggy. But I hoped beyond hope that he could be spared this pain, and now he is in the very very beginning of it.

He has such a long road to walk. And it is a SUCKY road. He is so confused and hurt.

Anyway, now I am feeling very overwhelmed with A feelings/thoughts, that haven't been apart of my every day in a long time. Is this natural? Normal? What has been others' experience with this?

I am grateful that I am able to assist these friends during their most horrible time. I truly am. And the fact that my H and I are in R and happy (most days), is a great inspiration to them. I guess it doesn't help that this is the time of year that everything started getting bad last year with then WH - with his EA, with my friend. So the weather, the holidays - I can remember each day almost as if it is on top of the day from last year. The lies, the feelings of responsibility for his unhappiness, the suspicions that I let go because they both made me feel bad for having them . . . on and on and on.

Any suggestions? Anyone? Insights? Thanks all!

Spidey

I've a friend that had an ongoing EA turned PA with a co-worker for years. She would confide in me (before I learned of my h's a) - and I would always tell her her misery (b/c she WAS miserable) was because she knew what she was doing was so wrong. I was the only person in her life that DIDN'T turn a blind eye to her infidelity and would confront her about it.

Since my h's a, I've found it harder and harder to tolerate her. I know, sad. But listening to her fog and p&ming drove me nuts. I hardly ever contact her anymore. If the a ended, then I think I'd have an easier time being her friend - but knowing what she's willingly doing to her family and his family is nauseating to me.

- Kimmy

I knew nothing about A's before it all happened to me. I never imagined the damage, destruction and pain that it could cause. Nor could I have ever imagined how many people it effects. I guess it depends on where you are emotionally as to what your outlook is. All I see right now is the selfishness, pain and hurt that people are causing. I just can't understand how people do this, to the one person they promised to love forever. It really changes my outlook. My WH's best friend just got M and all I can think when I look at them is, will they ever hurt each other the way I am hurting? I hope not, but I can't help but think it. Right now, I'm having a hard time seeing the good in people.

I always just 'turned my nose up' at infidelity before my FWWs a. Now I feel liek I'm watching a train crash - same panic same sadness for those affected.
I have a collegaue who is a real 'player' - lot sof ONS, lots of talk but no real evidence.

I never liked this behaviour but now I could slap him. WHAT ARE YOU DOING YOU ANIMAL ???

The lack of a trail of despondancy of broken hearted BHs tells me much or all of his talk is boasting. If I got any evidence I think I'[d have to confront him, I really do, 'sticking my nose in' or not.

Thanks, all, for your replies. I am grateful that neither of these have had the WS as my friend. The people I was closest to in each sitch are both the BS, both men. So, of course, I keep my communication with them front-and-center with my H. As we all here know, it can be a "slippery slope" when men and women begin talking about M trouble - when they aren't the ones married. That is what drew my H and friend together, unfortunately.

Again, thanks all. Has anyone else had this just keep popping up in front of you, now that you have lived the A experience? It just seems bizaar to me, and so coincidental. I keep wondering if there is something I am supposed to learn from this, a hidden lesson, a REASON. Probably just dumb luck!

SS

I rarely post, but this thread caught my eye. One of the reasons I first started hanging out at MB was because two very close friends of mine had affairs.

Both of them (one female, one male) had revenge affairs. Both felt that since their spouses cheated on them, they were "allowed" to cheat right back. In both cases I tried to be supportive, to be a friend.

Eventually though, it got too much. All the pain they were dishing out, the disrespect shown to their spouses, the casual way each group of friends accepted the affair partners started to gnaw at me. I couldn't continue being around them.

Imagine my surprise when I lost 2 groups of friends for refusing to "go along" with the affairs. This really did surprise me. I was called judgemental, pharisaical, mean and unsupportive. It was long before I heard of "the fog." Most of the friends of the affairees still will not speak to me.

I can't understand it. Both of these people married their partners. One is now divorced, the other has left his wife.

Sigh. I hope to God I never face this again, but statistics are against me, eh?

Seeking_More

Spider Slayer,

I think I get what you're saying here. An A occurred in your M, and now it feels a little like the devastation and desperation is EVERYWHERE!!! Your M (thankfully) was spared and you are now recovering, but it's like there are constant reminders of the pain from friends, co-workers, and acquaintances--and, while you are maybe ready to move a bit beyond the A, it seems as if A's are popping up all over the place!

I've kinda BTDT. I've been here on MB since 2000, and the first few years were for me, but gradually the energy shifted from helping myself to helping others. Guess what? I rather quickly spent SO MUCH TIME "helping others" that I did not help myself. Being around people in the midst of the horrible agony of an A can be VERY draining and emotionally hard, and if you don't watch yourself, you can easily be overwhelmed by being retraumatized. Your friend or co-worker may be the one going through an A, but you feel a shadow of the trauma you went through when you when through YOUR M's A. Get it?

So Spider Slayer, it's all about boundaries. You have to know what your limits are. For example, I read a lot of posts here, and if several wise people have chimed in, then I may choose to pass and not reply so that I'm not just repeating what others have said. I have purposely picked certain days which I use for MB posts, and other days during which my PC is turned OFF!!! When someone's story just strikes a nerve with me, I take a timeout and take care of myself (like sometimes I'll cry, take some time off even if it's a designated MB day, write in my journal, call a friend and talk, etc.).

I think you may need to set some similiar boundaries, Spider Slayer. Decide for yourself how much you can take and how much you can offer. You can not offer ANYTHING if you have "given" yourself dry, so when you do give, plan for some care time. Stuff like that! Reach your own conclusions about what does and does not work for you, and then set that boundary and stick with it!


CJ

OOOooops! Double post!

Gee--five years on the forum and I STILL double post! heehee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ October 19, 2004, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: FaithfulNewCJ ]</small>

SS,
Several years ago, one of my good friends at work told me about her A with a married man that had occurred (and ended) many years before I met her. She has a child w/ this married man. That man has nothing to do w/ her or the child. She started telling me about this stuff after the man's wife found out (child was about 15 by this time.) The wife obsessed about the A, called my friend at work, confronted the child, and demanded that her husband never see or talk to my friend or the child again. I remember thinking, "Wow, this woman is crazy and just needs to get over it. The affair has been over for 15 years."

Well, now that I've experienced the pain and anger of an A, I totally get it. I don't agree w/ the way the wife confronted the child, but I do understand why she did it.

Oddly enough, my friend has been very understanding and seemingly "on my side" during all of this.

OTOH, I have to add that after 15 years of not contacting the married man, my friend was still in love with him. That scares me A LOT! Even if my WH chooses to stay w/ me, will he still feel that way about his OW 15 years from now?

I guess my "affair-radar" is on max now, because I've noticed 2 people recently that are in affairs. Before I would have gone about my business, but now I just can't do that. I actually told them that their behavior was not acceptable, they had made vows before God, and they owed it to their spouses and families to end their affairs and do whatever it takes to heal their marriages. I also kinda "outed" them to their friends and co-workers. I just can't play the "secret game" anymore.

I just found out that someone I know is having an affair and his wife is 7 months pregnant. It's amazing how once it happeneds to you it's everywhere all of a sudden.
I feel so bad for his wife. It made me remember all the pain of when I first found out. I had no idea my H was having an affair. It's so shocking to find out the person that you have loved for so long could betray you so horribly.

You know how when people become advocates, like say, their grandma and mother both had breast cancer, that person, is now an advocate for breast cancer prevention/research.

I think we are all looking at M differently. We are MB advocates. We are on our soap boxes armed with our research and ready to prevent.

My H is having a terrible day. WHY?? Because he talked to some young lad at work today who's W is having an A. This has taken him so far back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It is opening a wound. He wants to help this guy desperatly but because he hasn't worked through all his issues with my A, it throws him.

I want one of those little Pi$$ on guys and have him pi$$ing on the word infedelity. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

KY

CJ, great advice. That might be where I am right now - all spread out and in desperate need of some firm boundaries for myself.

Sometimes, I wonder if I am still feeling pain, is it still an issue that needs working on, or is it just picking a scab that needs to heal.

Nothing feels "right" in particular, nothing seems clear. Of course, 90% of what I have done to save my M didn't feel "right" or clear at all. I am to the point where I don't totally trust myself with what is good for myself. Does that make sense?

Thanks to Lost & Alone, and TR for sharing. KY, I think I am where your H is. I want so badly to help, to ease pain and confusion, but I am still there myself to some degree - depending on the day, and/or weather, and/or hormones, and/or whatever else the heck contributes to my mood swings.

I want one of those pi$$ing stickers, too. We'll start a new saying in the world "Infidelity Sucks."

My H and I had lunch with our friend today who Just Found Out. It is painful for me to see it, and I think it is good for my H to see it in someone else. I think it helps him see his past actions clearly, without the taint of guilt. He honestly told our friend today that he can't even believe he did and said the things he did. He knows he did, but he can't imagine how he got where he was to be making those types of choices.

It's so sad. BS, WS, kids, friends - it touches everyone. Infidelity Sucks!!!

Spidey

Spidey,

I realized something really weird today. I work Thursdays through Mondays, and I love my job--just LOVE it!! Well, when I have Tuesdays and Wednesdays off, I take my kids to school and then I am home alone, and I often feel sort of sad and depressed. At first I was thinking it was something in the house (like a mold or a germ...bad karma...something!), but after reading your post, I realized something.

I feel depressed because Tuesdays and Wednesdays are the days I spend all day and all night on MB. Not that I don't "love" you guys, but it sucks the happiness out of me! I hadn't realized that. My head knew that it is draining to work here--like emotionally draining--but I hadn't considered that I'd feel kinda low and sad!

Soooo...thanks to this awareness, I took breaks today. When I started to feel overwhelmed, sad, sedentary, depressed, etc. I turned the computer completely off and got up and DID something for a few hours.

Infidelity in OTHERS does affect us.


CJ

CJ, I am sorry that you are made to feel sad by helping us here.

I would just like to tell you something you may not have realised though. IMO you feel saddened and weakened after MBing because your joy and strength are drawn into the hearts of those you help and care about : people like me.

I exhort you to consider this 'weakening' worthwhile, as a firefighter might be wearied by rescusing poor souls from disaster.

Surly such nobly earned weariness is a blessing.

These words don't do you justice, but THANK YOU, from the bottom of my broken, but healing heart.

{{{cj}}}

CJ

Ditto what Bob Pure says. Anyone here old enough to remember Edgar Cayse? Christian "spiritualist" who had an odd gift of helping people heal. Sometimes he would collapse afterwords. Sometimes it would take him days to recover. I like the analogy of a fire fighter, BobPure.

On the As all around us discussion. I don't feel that there are more than ever happening around me. But I have found myself "reevaluating" past breakups I knew about. I now understand the emotional train wrecks I saw. bc I've been one now. I agree too that hearing about situations now touches a nerve that wasn't so sensitive before. A stab of pain.

Spidey, I've appreciated so many of your posts here. Thank you.

hns

CJ, I am glad that you are self-aware enough to be able to evaluate yourself in situations you know are draining. I myself ebb and flow here on MB, for that very reason. I am not so well managed as you, though. AND, if you are not feeling 100%, it is hard to dispense the GREAT advice I have read from you here - so I'll take quality over quanitity any day - me personally.

Well, our Just Found Out friend confronted his WW yesterday afternoon. Their M is over, I think. Before he found out, they both already had lawyers. I do believe she had what is referred to in the books as an "exit affair." The feelings between them had been fizzled out for years, apparently. Trying to resurrect the M from what was left would have been a challenge, the WW wasn't even trying, and now with the A on top of it all, our friend is just done.

We are glad that he is now not going to be giving her EVERYthing. This woman, in her fogese, had this very nice guy convinced that HE was responsible for her unhappiness all these years. And HE felt guilty. Of course, the fact that I am fluent in fogese babble is one of the major reasons I was suspicious of her in the first place.

BUT, anyway, my H and I had a really great talk last night, and I am feeling better than ever about us, where I'm at, and who I am.

Thanks to everyone here on MB who helped make all that possible!

Spidey

Unfortunately, it's smacking me in the face right now - See here - BIL's plight .

I remember when I was young, my father had multiple A's. My mother never left him but upon the last A he had had, she ended up having a "revenge" A. At the time, I was in college, and I had seen my mother treated very badly for years so I was "happy" that she found someone who treated her well. Boy, was I naive back then!

Infidelity is all around us everyday but I think what's happening to all of us is that we're more aware of the dangers & aren't very tolerant of the selfish behavior any longer. I know this happened in my case with my "best friend" when I called her on an EA she was having. Now we no longer speak. She refused to give up this "friendship" she had w/the OP & it destroyed my BIL whom she was dating.

CJ,

I can understand your sadness. I can always tell when I spend too much on MB b/c I'll start to see those problems in OUR M even though things are going great! And I want to touch on something Bob said. He mentioned the fact that your joy & strength goes into those you're helping. Our ex-pastor would feel this same way after she was done giving communion. She would feel so drained afterwards b/c she put so much of her energy & focus into this special meal. This could be happening to you. Just an observation. We continue to enjoy your posts & you've helped me on more than one occasion stay focused & you're so blessed w/words!

Spidey,

Glad to hear you talked & things are progressing. My thoughts are w/you!

Love in Christ,
Y