I would like to take a moment to thank the people on this site. While I have made very few post, I have spent many, many hours reading on the site and in the SAA and HNHN books. It has done my mind more good than most people can imagine just to have a bit of a reference as to what was going on to help me understand, and to realize that even though it felt like it, I am not alone in this world.
It is sad, as even though I have no shortage of love for my WW, actually it is just the opposite, I have to give up the battle and move on. I feel that she is still deeply entrenched in the "fog" and convinced that our communcation problems that we had in the past our responsible for her leaving me, the OM is a totally seperate issue. Although I believe if I could stick it out things would turn around, I don't have the inner strength to do it. With each day the pain get's worse and it has only been 2 months since Dday. For my own sanity I have to try to move on with my life.
I would also like to think that, in a large part due to what I have read here, I am able to leave this situation a better person with improved chances of avoiding a similiar situation in the future. It is almost with shame that I walk away from this, turning my back on myself, but that is the only way that I see to avoid a complete emotional breakdown.
I would like to say I truly admire those of you that are strong enough to stick it out, up until now I would have thought that a sign of weakness, I now know otherwise.
You truly should be considered heroes to your kids and WS's, my hat is off to you.
Thank you to everybody

TL&L I am sorry that you are so very sad today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I am a BS too and I have had days just as sad and despairing as you are having.

I disagree with one point you make - that you are weak. No BS that works on the M for two whole months after D-day is weak.
Plan A is a heroes gig, br'a. Always said so.

You have every right to choose not to continue to try to recover your marriage, but while you have a young child and a wife that you still love, I pray that you reconsider.

When I hit a low spot soon after D-day I was wretched. I wasn't able to eat, sleep, think straight, had suicidal thoughts even.

Folks on here AND God's voice in my ear made me begin to STUDY the MB program, the examples of teh wise head son here and their advice.

I determned that I had nothing to lose by stiffing up my sinews, summoning up the blood and giving it a damn' good go, if only so I would be able to look my kids in face when they asked in future if I did EVERYTHING I could do to save our happy home.

I tightened up my Plan A - made it an academic discipline, removed my emotion from it. I made myself independent of my W for my happiness. Spent lots of time with my kids, worked out down the GYM HARD and basically looked after my physical and mental health and my kids spirits.

WW could wallow in her misery if she wanted but I wasn't going to let her dicate my mood. I did LOADS of family things, asked WW to every one. She refused for ages then...eventually...decided to come along...

Take some time, and deep breaths. Go for a beer with a good friend or to a comedy club or something. Have a evening where you belly laugh again. Dress well, smell good. Walk around with a smile on your face. be attractive to your WW. Make it impossible for her not to notice you if she has a shred of love in her heart for you.
You can do all that. How do I know ?

This reason : you got to two months after D-day without trying to kill yourself, so you are more resilient than I am. And If I could do a plan A, I am sure you can !

Take time and breaths, study up on Fog, wothdrawal, plan A. read good MC books voraciously and PRAY like you never have.

If you do that, you can win back your baby's heart and recover your marriage to a peak of wonder you never experiend before.

You'll never know what you could have achieved if you don't try. All blessings TL&L. I'll pray for you.

Although I believe if I could stick it out things would turn around, I don't have the inner strength to do it. With each day the pain get's worse and it has only been 2 months since Dday. For my own sanity I have to try to move on with my life.


Dude,

Have you thought about anti depressants? If not please think hard about this avenue. They help you cope...whether you stay or not.

Is she still with you and wanting to work on the M? Is she remorseful and has NC with the OM?

It has ONLY been two months and these two months are the WORST of it!!

You believe if you can stick it out it will turn around...then stick it out!!!! ARE YOU A GIRLIEMAN???

I think you need to do more posts and vent and cry and heal here as we all do.

DO NOT GIVE UP AFTER 2 MONTHS!!!

k

I am a BS like you and have been doing this for 22 months. However I did start moving on with my life a long time ago, while leaving open the possibility to reconcile with WH.

He has continued on his path, and I have no feelings left for him. I think it is good to assume the WS is not coming back, and move on and have a good life. Also it helps with your healing. So whether your marriage survives or not, you will be in a better place.

tlal:

"It is almost with shame that I walk away from this, turning my back on myself, but that is the only way that I see to avoid a complete emotional breakdown."

Try as I might, I can't even imagine how one "2rns their back on themselves". The metaphor falls apart.

Do you truly believe that by ignoring the si2ation, avoiding facing what's happened, that you'll avoid a breakdown? More likely, you'll cause one.

2 months is NOT LONG. You have given up, you haven't let go. You have a 3-yr old at home that deserves your best effort 2 put your family back 2gether. Hunker down and get 2 work.

In the meantime, what's changing so drastically that you feel you have 2 "move on?" Are you losing your job, your house, your child? If you aren't, and your W is the one that left, then the "easiest" thing 2 do right now would be 2 "hang in there" some more. Get in2 counseling if you're not already there, and start reading some self-help oriented books and put the affair books aside for now.

There are a few that I know of that are excellent. "Passionate Marriage" by David Schnarch is a hard read and is full of sex therapy, but the first chapter about "differentiation" and the later chapters about "building your crucible" are EXCELLENT, better than anything I've read about becoming a strong individual capable of having a committed relationship. Another great read is Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now" which helped ME shift my focus on what I perceived my W was "doing 2 me" and on2 living in the moment. The past and fu2re don't exist, except in our memories and imaginations. Everything we think and do we do now.

Put your hat back on. Earn the right 2 take it off.
-ol' 2long

As a backdrop, this is an exact replay of an A that took place 1 1/2 years befor we were M. That A re-ignited for a brief time around 5 years ago. In both cases she was working with the guy (2 different jobs). Unfortunately neither of us learned anything from that either time.
We have exchanged e-mails for the last month since WW moved out. We rotate who the child stays with every third night. I realize I made what is a common mistake of assuming that my WW was more rational than most. Here is the string of our last three e-mails.A question that I asked in an e-mail the other day:

Different subject, I know that it was in some of the articles I sent you, but you said that you kinda see how things started now. I feel that I see, and others that I have talked to see (I know that you feel like it's nobody else's business, but without my best friend I have to talk to someone) do you see where you have bent and twisted your own morals and values to make everything OK to yourself? I know that is a tough one, but I'm curious.

WW Reply this morning:


I don't agree that I have bent and twisted my morals. I also don't
think I'm perfect either though. Everything is not and was not OK with
me. Yes, I see a lot of similarities in our situation compared to what
articles and things you've sent me. I also stand by my word that I had
made my decision before I realized I had feelings for anyone else. I
also know that leads you back to "emotional affair" and if that's the
case it caught me by total surprise. I wasn't looking for it at all.
But if I remember correctly, the articles you sent went that way too. I
didn't get married 9 years ago looking for this ending. I know your
response to that is this doesn't have to be the end, you've changed, we
can work it out, but I don't feel the same way. Then you say - but you
could feel the same way if you weren't already attached to someone else
and would take some time for yourself and give me a chance. We could go
back and forth like this forever. I don't think you are totally off
base but I also don't think I am either. The truth is we just don't
feel the same way about the situation. To be honest with you I don't
know why I haven't answered you before now. Part of it is because there
is so much going on here at work I don't have a lot of time to put my
thoughts together and give you a complete answer. I thought about
calling you to answer you but I don't seem to get it all out properly
that way either. Your right that I don't think our business is anyone
else's business but I also understand that you need someone to talk to.
Same applies to you though that you keep telling me - consider the
source of your information. Yours may be good, I don't know, because I
don't know who you are talking to. But I'm sure whoever it is feels
sorry for you and doesn't like to see you hurting. One thing I don't
understand is your last comment. You first say you weren't happy that I
hadn't responded and then say you need to quit asking questions so I'll
quit telling you lies. How did I tell you lies if I hadn't responded?

I'm truly sorry you feel stomped on. My motive was never to hurt you (I
think you know that) but I never had intensions of being hurt like this
either. I think that if we had been able to talk and work through
problems throughout the years we would have never came to this point.
But you have said yourself that you're not sure there is anything I
could have done to make you realize that - until now. Communication is
a vital life line we never used - and please don't take that as me
laying blame, notice I said "we".


My throwing in the towel reply:

If you have not bent and twisted morals, then you are apparently not the person that I thought I had been with for 15 years, and I don't miss you as much as I thought. The reason I am so convinced that you need to see a shrink is because there has obviously been a lot going on, you have not talked to anyone about what was bothering you and you are in my opinion making rash life altering decisions (leaving your marriage, risking your job, breaking up your child's family). The emotional affair factor I feel is obvious. I admit that my behavior set you up for that. The reason that I am so convinced that has lead to the mental factor (fog) is that if that isn't it, then it's just a cheating slut thing, and I choose not to believe that.
As for the source of my information on your behavior not matching your morals and beliefs, your right, it is nobody that you have been close enough for them to know you in a long time, (old friend of WW that she used to attend church with).
As for you having so much going on at work that you don't have time to put your thoughts together, the last time I checked, on fifty percent of the nights you have nothing that you have to do, but I think that we both know the problem with using that time for your thoughts.
You have been emphatic about the fact that your partner had nothing to do with your decision to leave, that you really have not been happy in years. I realize a lot of problems that have existed since we started dating, having (son) in the picture compounded those problems due to the added stress and time restrictions, also I distanced myself from that burden which left more on you, that was obviously wrong. However, I don't buy the fact that you were on the verge of flight mode back when we started house shopping (May). I also believe that if you were going to leave me solely for the purpose of leaving me as you say, you would not have waited to do it until there happened to be a good honorable (except for participating in adultery) friend who's arms and bed you were ready to jump into.
As I have stated repeatedly I love you and I believe that I always will. I would give or do almost anything to have us back together, that is not a secret to myself, you, or anybody else. The reason for my change of heart is the Marriage builders discussion forum, I have read all of the stories of these people working and trying to get their spouses back for one, two or more years, sometimes with success and a long happy marriage afterwards, sometimes not. The point is that even though I have such a strong love for you, I am not personally strong enough to endure the feeling of loneliness and betrayal. I am not trying to get smart, and please don't take it that way, but you don't understand and can't imagine the feeling as you have not been through it, especially at the hands of somebody that you would be willing to put your life on the line for. I can't take the pain of focusing on trying to win you back, which is what virtually all communication with or seeing you makes me focus on, and the feelings of rejection and betrayal that are that pain.
Other than trying to be the absolute best dad that I can be and trying to become a better person so that I am hopefully never in this situation again, I don't know what the future holds for me. The only thing that I know is that I have to hurry up and try to live in it, because life in the present (life without the woman that I love and adore) is killing me.
I will not harass you with more postings, and I will do my best to not initiate non (son) or divorce type contact. If you would send me the (club that I am president of) stuff that you have on file at work to the house so that I can access it I would appreciate it.
I love you more than life itself, and for that reason, with the way things are, I have to go in a different direction than what my heart and mind tells me to so that my mind can bear it. This is the hardest thing that I have ever done. Nobody knows what the future may hold for either of us, but if at some point in the future your feelings change please don't be afraid to contact me, I hate what you have done but I do not hate you, I love you with all my heart, mind and soul.
Good bye

Those e-mails are making me cry.

After more than 6 months in the MarriageBuilders program, with little evident progress, I have come to realize that one impediment to progress what what Dr. Harley, through the private forum, told me was romantic idealism. I clung to the belief that I would always love my H no matter how badly he treated me. These Rod Stewart lyrics come to mind: "You're in my heart, you're in my soul..."

Please don't close yourself off to the possibility in the future that your W may come out of the fog. Plan B is appropriate now. Make decisions for today -- no contact with WW -- not for the future.

The morals aren't twisted. My H has told me a whole lot of his justifications for an affair, and they basically come down to thinking there is some exception due to personal circumstances. People can come out of the fog.

By removing yourself from your WW, you remove immediate justification for continuing in the A. That may help her.

Cherished

Geez, I guess that the name of that tune.

Is she with the OM now?

The battle is not lost...it is just plan B.

There is still hope...if you want there to be hope.

k

tlal:

Well, that was a great VENT, but a lousy letter 2 send 2 your W. It was full of disrespectful judgements, lovebusts, and ultimatums.

If you've been reading HNHN and SAA, you know this.

I don't see anything in either your W's email 2 you or yours 2 her that would suggest that this can't be saved, but it can't be if you keep up this kind of lashing out.

It is HARD, but you need 2 learn how 2 get your points across without attacking behaviors.

You and your W are stalemated in a "blame-fest" that will get you nowhere but a miserable fu2re apart.

2ple of things:

Is your son visiting with his mom while the OM is living with her???? I would talk 2 a VISCIOUS pitbull of a lawyer and start procedings 2 get SOLE CUSTODY of your son if that is the case. Your M may be on it's way over, but for NOW, she is STILL MARRIED 2 you, and bringing your son around another man, willing 2 have an A with a married woman, is WRONG, and she knows it.

I still think you've got a lot of work 2 do. Start with yourself. Stop trying 2 control your W's behavior. She has 2 make her own decisions herself. You WANT her 2 do this, not hinder her doing it by being judgmental.

Talk 2 a counselor, one of the Harleys or Penny Tupy particularly.

If you are considering plan B, by all means write a MUCH BETTER email than the previous one and do it right, with professional guidance. In the meantime, learn how 2 communicate with your W without blaming her or accepting blame from her. If it requires it, don't even talk about your relationship or the OM at all.

best,
-ol' 2long

Put on the brakes and back up a miniute. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Your not following the plan.

Try re-reading SAA and HNHN. And you could probably stand to read Love Busters as well. Get into some IC with Dr. Harley, Jennifer C., or Penny. Then if you still feel too much pain go for plan B. And not a plan B like the one you implemented with that email full of LB's either. Do it right man. Send her a powerful letter with a powerful message.

You say you love her....If you do then you owe it to her and certainly your child to try it the MB way.

Besides it's forum rules no giving up until after your 500th post. So quit yer belly achin' and get back in there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C.

<small>[ October 19, 2004, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

ok toolate, I would implore you to hold off here. You are making permanent decisions based on a temporary state of mind because you are ENRAGED.

Your W is clearly in a state of withdrawal and very defensive to boot. She cannot feel remorse right now because a) she is too close to the crime for honest self evaluation and b) your attacks have placed her in defense mode. She is preoccupied with defending herself from you right now.

Now perhaps she is an immoral slut for whom adultery is a way of life, however, I somehow sense that this is not her normal character. Has she always been this way or is this an aberration of character? Because if this an aberration of character, you are throwing away a perfectly repairable marriage because you are frustrated at her seeming lack of progress.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think you are obligated to take back a wayward spouse, but I do think that you are tossing her aside over perfectly NORMAL behavior of a recovering WS. I understand your fury, toolate. But if there is a chance that you could have a better marriage than before, wouldn't you want to stick around for that eventuality?

Divorce is PERMANENT, your feelings are temporary.