Hi JL,

so how many other people do you think are actually reading this???

Do any of you other people who are reading this despite the title care to fess up???

ok, now that i am done amusing myself...

regarding:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I want to thank you for your very kind words. It is nice to be appreciated and I think you are correct to suspect that sometimes different posts affect people, including me. As for confidence, I am not so sure about that, but I do know what has worked here over the years, and I do have some idea of what makes sense. You are right, there is no reason to be here if it is not to help.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you're welcome <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

my weekend went ok. JL, i really don't want to tell my H anything else!!! It's been 7 months since d-day and he is still really struggling with what he does know, the basic question being "how could you have done this?" and "how could you have done this for so long and while i was working on the marriage?" and i try to tell him what was going on inside of me during that whole time, and how i finally was able to turn back to him because of his actions and how i, with the help of MB, was able to finally turn and face my actions of the last 2.5 yrs (as well as the rest of our marriage) and confess and try to make ammends. but in the end nothing helps him, he wants to understand, i know he truely wants to understand but he is looking for the explanation to be reasonable and logic and when i try to point that out and say, i cannot give you a reasonable or logical answer because NONE EXISTS. i was wrong. botoom line, i was wrong and i am trying to do all i can to get back on the right path.

honestly, this weekend we might have made some progress but it's hard to say, he may slide right back again after thinking about it more. i don't really think he is wanting to crucify me or anything but he is very stuck.

and then there is the rest of the news that he has not even heard yet. so much of me really wants to leave that confession between God and I alone. but i don't know if that is because God is guiding me to do so or if i am trying to do it my way instead of His.

and then there is the thought of what the future might bring and how having this between us might end up causing us more pain down the line. i am living a lie still and as soon as he realizes that, his heart will harden harder than ever. what kind of person am i if i am willing to watch him trying to walk down the path of forgiveness before he knows everything.

boy, and i thought this topic was just going to be a friendly "you're welcome" as well as an opportunity to give me and perhaps you a bit of a laugh thinking about all the people who we both know are reading this even the the topic says "JL ONLY please"

FL,

It is my opinion that you need to understand this yourself before you can tell him. I am hoping that your IC is working on this with you. One of the problems that the BS's here have is the "logic" of such things. There is one but usually only at needs and LB's. Then the light goes on and the "understand".

In your case I think this is far different. You were seeking out men for another reason and it had to do with you. Frankly, FL most women would not do what you have done, which suggests to me this is not about your H at all. If I understand the timing right you not only cheated on your H, you "cheated" on OM and the other OM as well.

In a odd way your H might be happy to know this. It makes things clearer to him that YOU had the issues and while he needed to shape up in the marriage many of the decisions made were all about you and your search for SOMETHING. You need to understand what you are searching for or you will NOT be able to make any sense to him.

He can look forward to a lot of pain when you tell him, but he can also look forward to you in a much better situation. I do think you will need to tell him FL, but I also think you need to sort this thing out, and become happy with your life and marriage before you do. Why?

Well, in my little mind I see him asking what has been changing in you as he experiences a happier, more serene you, a confident you. I see you telling him that you have finally found out what your issues were and have dealt with them. I see you looking him in the eyes and telling him that you have been haunted for a long time by what was within you and what you have done and finally you can face it. If he wants to know, then you tell him what you were dealing with and how you were addressing it. IF he asks does this mean there were other men during this period the answer is YES, I will tell you if you want to know, but I want you to understand two things. 1. I have addressed my issues via counseling and can now fully love you. and 2. It was you that carried me through this and I am very very indebted to you for that."

I see a dialogue along those lines FL, but as you can see it would take you addressing your issues and then learning how to love your self and your H again.

I truely think it will come, and while he will be hurt he will see that all of this occured at the same time and ALL of the men in your life were being cheated on, and ONLY one held your heart.

It is my dream for you FL, that you figure this out and come to be at peace.

God Bless,

JL

how will i ever really totally understand this, it was insanity, total insanity.

as for cheating on the OM that is not true, main OM knew everything, in fact main OM encouraged it (it being, me with other guys) ok, this sounds so unbelievable disgusting, it turns my stomach to have to write. he wanted me to find some other guy so that he could either watch the 2 of us or have a complete 3some. and i went along with this concept JL!!! thankfully i never ended up doing either of the above but i came so unbelievable close. all because i was so desperate for "something".

as for the OM that is my H's friend, he knew about the main OM too, prior to us getting together (i'm not sure about the rest, but by then i was done doing that, eventually i believe i told him all, i'm not 100% sure) and at first i was not seeing main OM when i first talked and then was with "friend" but then main OM contacted me again and i did tell "friend" about it too, at that point his logic was "Karen, if you are going to cheat, cheat with me, at least i am your friend". i was with "friend" maybe only 5 or 6 times but 3 of them were in a car and only me doing something to him.

so that is what made me really hit rock bottom. i could no longer live with what i was doing. i was 100% out of control and finally really realized it.

so in Nov of 2003, i had a major breakthru, i prayed to God like never before. thru all this time i constantly felt so much anger, and i typically HATE feeling anger, i don't know what to do with anger, and so i was so my actions became so destructive, i had already thought too much about sucide back in 2001, i could not go back to that place.

i prayed to God to help me let go of the anger and to help me get my H out of my nightmare, H would not let me move forward with divorce, he was holding on to me so tightly by then. and i truely believe that deep down, a divorce was really the last thing i wanted anyway. i prayed constantly, i just could not stay in the place i was anymore. and i literally felt my prayer answered and the anger subsided, and i remember telling my H this. i remember literally accepting an apology that he gave me in early 2002 regarding his actions in our early marriage. i had written about that apology, and i had captured H intensity, but at the time i did not allow the apology to enter my heart. after days of praying about my anger, i happened across what i had written from back then. and i felt myself be able to let go of all that anger and pain and forgive him.

but i must add something else here, i incorrectly placed the cause of all my anger on my H. yes our marriage has some major problems but in hindsight, i have to say, the intensity of my anger had to have been caused more by my dad's death stirring up so much unhappiness in me, but instead of leaning on H for comfort, i decided the anger i felt was about our marriage. besides, i could not lean on my H, he has always disliked my parents and siblings anyway. he could not understand why i cared and since he could not understand that, he decided i was basically wrong for caring about any of them, and therefore, that topic of conversation was a waste of time to him, in fact trying to talk to him only made matters worse because then i had additional stress from H pressuring me to disconnect from all of them.

when my one sister was in the state mental hospital, he would get so mad at me for visiting her, he said that added extra stress on me (and i was pregnant at the time, with the baby we eventually lost) and i would tell him, visiting her makes me feel better, YOU are putting the stress on me for trying to force me to not support my sister. but he never understood what i was saying.

sometimes even since last nov, i think about reverting back to those destructive behaviours. because of this, i KNOW i cannot say i have figured everything out yet and can now live at peace loving both myself and my H. but i don't know what i have left to figure out, except how to move forward, which requires me to tell H.

i may be jumping to the wrong conclusion but i envision telling my H all of this and he saying, "nope, i don't buy it... that does nothing for me, i don't believe you have figured anything out and assure me this will never happen again."

and i just don't know. i don't trust myself one bit to trust my opinion.

do you have an opinion?

FL,

What was the something you were so desperate for? Don't you see, what i was saying about all of the OM? The one thing your H could take comfort from in all of this is that they really meant very little to you, even main OM. He wanted to share you or watch you, but he did not love you and I doubt you did him. They were all part of your search to address that "something".

I would very much like to hear what your IC said about all of this. You see FL, while you don't see it, I think you are moving farther along than you think. Look at what you have posted here, I know it was not easy, but you did it. Why?

I think in the telling of it, you are able to get your mind around it and as you do, you will be able to identify what you were looking for. I do hope your IC has heard all of this and is working with you to sort our why you responded this way and how to address what you were looking for.

Your H will benefit if you find your answers. They are not going to be "logical" in the conventional sense, but they will be there. You did not just do this for grins, because whether or not you enjoyed it, you were also deeply bothered by it, and surely you are now.

FL, I am not a counselor, but I think the reasons for this are going to start bubbling to the surface soon and when they do, you will finally be a peace because you will then know how to handle things that right now seem a mystery to you.

Hang in there and keep working FL. I really think you can do this.

God Bless,

JL

i guess the piece of the puzzle that is missing is why did i choose to do what i did?? why not turn to alcohol, or drugs? well i don't like to drink much, i do like pot some but heck at age 42, well, i just don't want to have to find a connection, etc, etc...

i clearly remember when i first went into a chat room, april 2000. it was in the middle of my dad's illness and it was during a period of time when my H was out of town a lot. he was gone for about 3 days in that particular trip. and that first night i met a single guy from FL and the conversation was just so unbelievable plesant. i had been feeling so low and so lonley and this person was just such a pleasure to talk to. and he enjoyed talking to me, that first night was not about sex at all, with H out of town, we chatted a ton in those 3 days, about dreams and fears, happy times, sad times, he told me about some of the hardest times in his life, and we cried and we laughed. He was a younger guy but someone that had quite a story himself, he did not relate to people his age, he didn't feel as though he fit in. so he welcomed my friendship just as much. his mom and dad divorced early, his mom cheated on his dad with a female. and his mom then stayed in this gay relationship for most of his growing up time, at school functions he would have his mom and "aunt" attend and he was often brought to gay bars. this explained why he did not feel comfortable around the kids his age. then his mom switched back and left the "aunt" for a guy. during the the time i knew this person, his mom got married and had another child. well somewhere early on, we did start having discussions about sex too, and the next thing i knew it lead to cyber. and became so totally hooked on the intensity of that.

well, that guy was much younger than me, and in FL, we liked chatting, but it's not like it was leading to anything, although i must admit, i felt VERY strong feelings for him. and i felt alive and happy. and it was so accessible, and so i went into the chat room to talk with others too. it was so inviting, and i was so appealing to those i talked too, of course, that is the whole thing about internet stuff, you can be adored by everyone. and it just progressed from there. for the next year i did this, then in April of 2001, my dad died and i had my breakdown. i tried to talk to C at the day program about this cyber addiction then, but their main concern was to get my thoughts off of suicide. when i told them, in response to the question "what do you do to relax?", i said chat on the internet, and the response was, that is not a healthy choice, what else do you enjoy doing, and i said crafts, and they said, go buy some craft to work on. well, i like crafts, but working on crafts did not come close to helping me escape like the internet did.

when i told the dr that was specifically assigned to me, she called me a floszy and so i never mentioned it again.

got out of that program after 6 weeks, was told i was healthy and to go back to work. and so i continued, in july 2001, i crossed the line from just internet to real life.

but does any of this really explain anything??

FL,

Look at what you have written and then pretend someone else has written it. What would you advise them? What do you think was the motivating factor that started this? And what would you tell them?

Read it and you analyze this as if you were me. There seems to be clues there. Have you discussed any of these clues with your IC?

God Bless,

JL

jl, thanks again, i was writing that last post before i saw your response.

what was the something i was searching for... that seems to be the HARDEST question to answer. an escape from my pain is the only thing i can come up with.

i know for a fact main OM did not love me, nor i him. we were very clear on that. but i did like to pretend sometimes. and it was very safe to pretend with him, cuz i had no fear that he would fall in love with me, 15yrs younger and with NO desire to become attached to an older woman with kids. and that was in fact the LAST thing i wanted. that is what made that OM in particular so appealing, we were very straight with each other. physical only!

you are very right about why i am posting, i very much want to figure this all out. IC and I are getting there, posting here helps me open up in the sessions too.

yes i was also deeply bothered by my actions, even though i continued to do them. H does not understand that either. he thinks i was just having the time of my life being married and having a b/f at the same time. he has no idea how much this has torn me apart. when i said i felt we made some progress this weekend, that is what i meant, i think on some level he is starting to see and the damage i did to myself in the process.

JL, i know you are not a C but i do so very much appreciate you spending your time reading my posts and responding.

i do hope you are right that this is all going to work out. i have much hope these days, and that hope just keeps getting stronger. hope is something i have not had felt in so long.

thanks.

<small>[ October 19, 2004, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

once again we were posting at the same time.

i will do as you suggest and i will continue to discuss this with IC. we have really only begun to stratch the surface these past few weeks.