I've been on MB site off and on for the last year or so. I don't know if I've ever seen my situation here before. When I met my H 6 yrs ago he was a dream come true (aren't they all), in many ways he still is.

When we were dating about 5 months I found out I was pregnant, wasn't planned. I was so shocked, we were using protection but anyway he was great about it. He was so happy. He was at the time living with his mom so when he told her, she treated him like a child (a whole nother story!!)
I was about 3 months along when H and I were talking and he mentioned that he was having weird dreams of having sex with a male. After that he said that the dreams were coming more frequently. That got his curiousity going

He asked me what my thoughts would be about having a male join us. I said noway, he asked about exploring this curiousity and I wasn't for it. Long story short this has been a problem off and on. There are times I will find out that he's emailed with other guys, chatted, etc.

We were trying to deal with this the best way we knew how, we tried online bible studies on the subject, talking to our pastor, etc. Things seemed much better, we got married. Then I noticed a difference in our intimacy (or lack thereof)he seemed distant and selfish.

There were so many missing peices to our puzzle and things just didn't add up. I noticed about 7 months ago that he sent an email to someone, I flipped out and then also found out he was online again chatting. I told him I'm done I want answers and I'm not going any farther with the marriage. He confided in me that he was molested when he was 9 yrs old.

He also felt very lost and alone growing up, he felt like he just exsisted. Knowing how his family is I understand what he is talking about. We have started going to a mc about 2 months ago and even she is stumped, H has a hard time remembering things and from other sessions with H she has come to the conclusion that H was emotionally neglected growing up.

I've been struggling with is he gay or is it from his childhood. I don't know if I'm fooling myself or what to do anymore. I love him dearly, he's an excellent father to our son and to my daughters (previous marriage for me I'm his first). He's really trying hard in our marriage. He says that he wants to be with me forever and wants all this stuff to go away.

Is there anyone that has dealt with this or knows of someone who has? I feel so very alone
I've been there for my H and thank God the last 8 months he's really starting to open up and talk about his feeilngs and other stuff.

This has really taken a toll on me emotionally. He has lied to me so much in the past about what he was doing, I do know that he tried to meet up with someone but couldn't go through with anything (that I know, since it was in an email).

AmIenough

Welcome to marriagebuilders. Yikes, I am not an expert in Gay issues. I am a Christian. But I do believe that being Gay is not a choice. I believe that either people are born that way, or become that way from early life experiences - sometimes by being molested.

You are in a difficult situation. You love your husband and he is a good father. However, having dreams about being with a man is not normal for a heterosexual man. And wanting to act out those feelings is not normal for a man.

Hopefully someone here knows much more than I do about these issues.

By the way, how is your sex life with your husband, if you don't mind me asking?

Love Won Out website Many of the answers you are seeking can be found in the books written by the author and speaker on the bottom of that web page - Nicolosi. Believer is right, homosexuality is not chosen. But, it can be overcome - if the homosexual is willing to do the hard work involved.

I do not know if you have ever heard of "Love Won Out", but everything I have heard from them has been super.

Thank you both so much.

Believer, our sex life is good, there are times where I have to remind him I have needs to. There is such thing as foreplay. Frequency isn't a problem at all.

John, I haven't heard of that website but will check it out.

This is something that I feel lost and almost haunted by. I'm just hoping and praying that this stuff is because of what happened to him when he was younger

My best educated guess based on research I have seen is that male homosexuality is an inherited tendency that is expressed or not depending on circumstances. In other words, it's about 50% genetic, and 50% environmental.

However, the environmental influence can be "reversed" with proper therapy and the willing participation of the person in question. Nicolosi is a pioneer in this kind of treatment.

Hi AmIEnough! Welcome to MB. You're not the only person who's had troubles like this one. You are, however, in a much better position than most. You probably don't feel that way, but let me explain.

believer said, having dreams about being with a man is not normal for a heterosexual man. And wanting to act out those feelings is not normal for a man.

Actually, having sexual dreams about either sex is something that happens to almost everyone, whether they are gay or straight, sometime in their lives. Most straight folks don't talk about their queer dreams, most queer folks don't talk about their straight dreams.

So... the first thing I have to say is that it is absolutely WONDERFUL that your husband has been open and honest enough to talk to you about his inner self. That's amazing; probably more amazing than you realize. Your husband is to be honored and treasured for having the courage to talk about things that are probably very troubling for him.

John39 mentioned therapy as an option. That's possible, but the American Psychological Association, and various other therapy groups, are strongly opposed to the notion that this is something to be "cured." I don't want to get into a debate with John (Hi John!) about whether homosexuality needs to be cured, here -- it's not really the point. It's just that the mainstream psychological bodies choose to deal with issues of this kind in other ways.

My thought is that your husband has issues to deal with from his past and from his innate nature. Great! Welcome to the human race. We ALL have issues like that, in all kinds of different flavors and colors, and really it's a matter of how we deal with them.

If your husband were single, for example, then he would be free to explore his sexuality within the boundaries of his own comfort zone and ethics. But... he's not. He's married. And that means that you two will need to very carefully work through this issue to find solutions that you're BOTH enthusiastic about. Might be some tough discussions ahead of you, but I'm really not focused on the sexuality part of it. Everyone deals with difficult sexual issues at some point in their marriage.

That he still regularly has sex with you tell me quite a bit about him, as well. It tells me that he, like a significant number of other men, likes SEX, and that he's been sexualized in a way that means that both men and women can arouse him.

I wouldn't stigmatize him for that. Your husband is an entirely normal, highly sexual man. How he got to this place (whether it's his childhood or his innate nature) really isn't all that important -- it's what he does with it that is.

So what I'm concerned with is his boundaries and his ethics and his ACTIONS. I want to know how he's going to channel the sexual energy that he has in a way that's healthy for your marriage. So far, he hasn't done that -- he's been exploring without your knowledge, taking risks that are frightening for you, and though he's been open and honest about some things, he's got some more work to do there.

Though bible study is a great idea in general, I'm not sure that it will help the two of you figure out healthy ways for him channel his sexual energy -- trying to suppress it may lead to it showing up in ways that are even more damaging to your marriage.

So, my advice would be that you find a pro-marriage counselor who can help normalize your husband's feelings -- right now, your husband probably feels pretty darned abnormal, and like there's something wrong with him. That can lead to all kinds of additional stress on him, and it's important that he understand that lots of people deal with these energies in healthy ways that don't destroy their marriages and families. It's a challenge, but hey, so is breathing.

Finding a good counselor may be pretty difficult; you will often find pro-marriage counselors who are opposed to gay or lesbian situations, or gay/lesbian counselors who aren't pro-marriage. The combination is hard to find. One person who I would trust in this situation is Penny Tupy. She's got her head screwed on tightly, and knows which way is up. She will fight for your marriage, but she'll also fight for the joyful expression of the humanity of both of you -- within your marriage.

Gosh JustJ, thanks. You came through with some great advice as usual.

This has been quite a month for us. I do have to give my H credit that he is opening up. For the first time in our relationship my H seems a bit more free.

I was doing some reading on male surviors of sexual abuse and it's actually very common for these poor men to be confused about their sexual identity. They love the women they are married to but yet have this desire for sex with men. Yet they aren't attracted to men it's just the sex of it. How confusing they must be.

Then you add in the emotional neglect from his mother and you have a messed up situation. I am a believer that the mind, body, and spirit are all connected and I know my h's spirit is drained and neglected. I've also noticed that he might have "failure to thrive" problems.

He can't relate to certain emotions. Like for instance when you tell him to put himself in another persons shoes,he can't. If you tell him to close his eyes and even visualize our bathroom, he can't do it.

He told me today that when he would have the urges to go chatting it was like it filled an emptiness inside of him.

He then gets depressed thinking he doesn't deserve me, he does have low self esteem. It truly breaks my heart. We've had problems in everyday life too like not helping out around the house, not taking responsibility for things.

So he then thinks I want to leave him and I told him I want this to work out so much. So I asked him if he thinks D (14 yr old daughter)would be able to get married right now and handle the needs of her husband. He said no, so I asked him why? He said because she doesn't even know her own feelings and needs. Oh really? hmmmm and how often when asked a question about your feelings do you say I don't know? He got what I was saying.

He can't give me all what I need....yet, I want him to focus on getting himself healthier, happier, and emotional whole

He knows some stuff as far as putting in an effort with housework, the kids, but yet a part of him is rebelling I think because of how controlling his mother was/is. When we first started dating I found quite a few things odd so now I'm understanding more. Even though I understand, the effort needs to be there

I have realized that my husband has to learn morals and boundaries. There is so much work to be done. I'm a bit overwhelmed but after much prayer and thinking I don't want "us" to end. There are many great qualities our marriage does have.

I agree that we all have issues but some have worse ones than others and it's also how we handle them and have been taught to handle them.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How he got to this place (whether it's his childhood or his innate nature) really isn't all that important -- it's what he does with it that is.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I sorta disagree, I think what happened to him and him never dealing with it and not know how to deal with it has everything to do with why we are in the situation we are in. He is responsible for his actions and how he handles things that I agree with. I think he needs to stop avoiding life and deal with it and take responsibility, these problems aren't going away. Especially since I won't turn a blind eye to it.

This may sound weird but it's almost like now he's able to grow and see what works for him, before he just went along with whatever mom said. It's hard on here to really explain it. It's almost like he's developing now.

JustJ, You've made me think a bit more in depth (if that's possible). Today I feel good and I feel good about our marriage but I have my days where I just don't know.
I'm having to deal with some of my issues as well.

I just wish I could look into a magic ball and it tell me everything will be ok (don't we all wish that LOL)

<small>[ October 23, 2004, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: AmIenough ]</small>

AmIEnough, you make a good point about the past and how it gets you to the present. Survivors of childhood abuse and neglect often have to relearn many of the basics of healthy interactions, and that means that first they have to look at how the interactions they experienced as children weren't quite on track.

However, I'm a coach, not a counselor, and because of that my focus is on the actions in the present. When there are severe issues associated with a mental illness or childhood abuse, then I refer to a therapist.

However, it's iportant to understand that there is NOTHING that can be done to change the past. All that can be done is to recognize it and come to terms with it -- and grow from what you learn. That's where a therapist can help your husband individually.

However, therapists are, err, not so good with marriage stuff. Honestly, the best you could probably do is either a coach -- or an older couple from your church who are willing to mentor you. Maybe both.

Another thing I'd like to say is that you're absolutely right that you probably have your own stuff to begin to work on. Boundaries may well be a good place to start -- learning how to be honest about yourself and your feelings without being disrespectful to others. And learning to negotiate. Those are really difficult things, and you and your husband will probably both benefit from learning them.

I'd suggest that you might want to read a couple of books. The first is Betrayal Bonds, by Carnes (I think). It's all about the bonds that form between people when one has betrayed the other. It focuses on childhood abuse issues (a betrayal of mammoth proportions), and would probably help both of you.

I would also suggest that you both read The One by Willard Harley. It's a great look at the different attitudes that can get wrapped into relationships between two people in an intimate romantic relationship.

By the way, if your husband is looking for a place to post, there are various forums out there for abuse survivors. The only one I'm personally familiar with is the SYMC board, but I'm sure there are others as well.

JustJ,

Thank you for the book suggestions and for taking the time to respond to me.

AMIE: My wife commends to you "The Power of a Praying Wife", by Stormie Omartian.

Actually, JJ, I agree with most of what you say - especially your assertion that "trying to suppress it may lead to it showing up in ways that are even more damaging to your marriage." Nicolosi's therapy does not "try to suppress it", based on radio interviews of him I have heard.

Nicolosi is, however, a practicing Christian, and comes at the issue from that perspective - which indeed means that he does view homosexual activity as outside of God's design for people. Whether that makes it impossible for someone like Nicolosi to "normalize [AMIE's] husband's feelings" or not is an open question - If "helping him gain an understanding that these feelings and actions are "normal" for people who have had the life experiences he has had" means "normalizing", then yes. If it means saying: "God thinks this is a good thing.", then no.

In any case, whether the APA "approves" or not, the bottom line is - do his methods work? Harley does things much differently than "mainstream" Marriage Counselors - but his methods work. The same is true for Penny, who uses Harley's materials extensively, and who I agree is excellent. Everything I have heard about Nicolosi suggests the same is true for him. Would I proceed with caution if I were in AMIE's shoes? Sure. But it sounds like her H needs more than just marriage coaching - he needs therapy.

But, to allay your other fear about therapists in general - (which I do share - it is really sad how many are really not pro-marriage, including many who claim to be Christian) - coming at things from a Christian perspective also includes believing the Bible means what it says in Malachi 2:16: "God Hates divorce". So in Nicolosi's case, at least, you would not have to worry about the pro-marriage part.

It also seems like you are implying that reading the Bible is likely to make AMIE's husband try to suppress his feelings. While that is possible, the Bible actually has a great deal to say about helathy sexual expression between a married couple. (The book "Intimate Issues" has a good concise exposition of the Bible's view of sex-though it is written for a female audience.) The Bible also shows us healthy ways to deal with guilt, and that God offers us hope, love, and a path to forgiveness and restoration. In part, it depends on what we are ready to receive.

<small>[ October 24, 2004, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

amie,

There is a poster on the EN board...aeri...who had a very similar situation to yours. She would be a good person for you to share with since she has BTDT. She isn't always there...but try posting to her. Just J has given you some great stuff to think about.