Those of you who have read before know that WS has an EA for about 1 year with OM.

Last night W and I had a 3 hour talk about how we no longer have the same assumptions about M. I still think it's one man, one woman, and zero intruders. However, she says she no longer has any desire to save the M and doesn't care. Good discussion with no LB.

I went on to bed (this is when W always talks to OM for about 3 hours). W came into the bedroom shortly afterwards screaming and crying and calling me a liar and "the most selfish person she has ever known". Seems that OMW had told OM that she was okay with this whole thing, but I talked to OMW on Monday (this week) and got a whole different story. I told my W that OMW is not "okay" with this relationship, but was afraid to say so.

When OM told my W that OMW said she was okay with the "friendship", my W assumed that I was the liar in the crowd rather than suspecting her OM or his W.

I was already on the edge of leaving and this was all it took to push it over the top. I got up and packed a bag and went to a hotel. When I left, W was on the phone with OM + OMW and the whole sordid truth was emerging.

Actually, my night in a hotel was not nearly as dreadful as I had expected. I plan to start looking for an apartment after work today, and maybe stay in a hotel again tonight.

Any HELP would be welcome.

I wish, I wish I could help, but I can not.

But I can say, I am a grownup man of 35 (not 48 yet) and there is just no advice I can give you.

All I can give you is, Make your back straight, bite on your teeth and God is Good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

GG,

If you're still in Plan A as it states in your signature, then when you do leave, make sure your WW knows that you're doing it to avoid a fight, to avoid more pain, etc. Make sure she knows you're not quitting on the M, you're not punishing her. That's the only thing I really have to say.

The whole sordid truth coming out sounds pretty good.
So does the fact that OM *and* OMW were on the phone with your WW. Wonder if OM and OMW were in an adversarial role with one another or more of a team?

Yea, I was pretty upset when I left last night....I wish I had not been so. However, I think that now may be the time for Plan B as part of our discussion was that W needs to seek help for herself (counseling) if she is unwilling to get MC together (which she refuses).

I know that OM + OMW have been having some serious fights lately, with her telling OM to leave and go to my WW. He's telling her he wants a D, but then he goes back to her.

In the midst of all this, the OMW was telling my WW that she was "okay" with the "friendship", even though she privately told me otherwise.

FRESH UPDATE !!

W just called and said she had prayed for me last night and knew that I must have been miserable. However, she noted that she had a peaceful night sleep with no LB'ing to disturb her. (Actually, I slept pretty good myself).

She says she is sorry for calling me a liar, she now knows that OMW was the one telling the lies. She says I am welcome back home if I want to come back.

She still says OM is just her "friend" and has no intention of leaving me, but she has no desire to work on our M any longer. Her "friend" wants to help her learn to love me.

Changing my name to "Confused in Georgia".

I agree with you that now might be a good time for Plan B. It could coincide with your moving into your new place. Also if OMW's if in the picture now, she might be rocking that affair boat a bit. Good time to let WW try to let man married to other woman meet all her needs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Make sure that your Plan A from now until you move out is exemplary.

Blessings to you Georgiaguy who is confused <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

weaver

FRESH UPDATE #2:

I just got an e-mail from my wife (who is at work) that simply states:

"I'm thinking of you and asking for His guidance".

Confusion reigns supreme in Georgia as the fog rolls in.

GG:

Good developments. Like you, I've been M'd 28 years 2 my FWW. Also like you, I left after a LB argument (this past Spring), telling my W that "we're just hurting each other." It was NOT a plan B.

I would correct her and tell her you slept very well last night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Your call about re2rning. If it were me, I'd ask that she agree not 2 talk 2 the OM again, or that she include you in the next "conference call" with the OM and the OMW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (I giggle thinking about it).

The bubble is bursting. Help it along without LBing.

-ol' 2long

Georgia Guy -

I hope that the gibberish your WW is speaking right now shows you the extent of fog talk. I would assume when she said His guidance she was meaning the Lord and not His as in OM. Read it again and make sure that's what your understanding is as well.

My H is a very smart man. Some of the things he said during the fog just amazed me. I think some people on this site refer to them as pod people. Once the fog has cleared and you can do that with Plan A and Plan B...they too will be amazed.

I wish you luck.

Thanks for the input...

There is no way the WW will agree to not talk to OM again...that is her daily ritual when she gets home from work (before me), and after I go to bed.
I think she sees life without OM as not worth living.

Yes, she was referring to the Lord, not OM. She sees her relationship with OM as part of some divine plan, rather than her breaking her M vows (as a fog horn sounds gently in the background).

However, after 28 years of M, moving out while SW wants me to stay is hard to do. There is the missed opportunity to see my grown (and M'd) kids when they visit home...possible grandkids in the not too distant future (man am I gettin' old!), not to mention my cozy home and dogs.

Plan A for all eternity is sounding better than Plan B (she says she doesn't want to leave...so it would be me to go).

Am I in fog too, or is this just realism?

Georgia Guy-

I'm so sorry for your pain. I assume that your WW asked for His guidance as in the Lord's? His guidance would have not to have done this in the first place and to stop immediately!

I am a WW. I say WW because I'm not completely a FWW. I am working on myself at this point and not worrying with OM or H. I do not believe that God wanted me to cheat and as a matter of fact I wasn't even able to pray until I confessed my sins to Him. Perhaps He allowed it to teach me something?

In my opinion and from what I've read- WW must stop all contact with OM to survive this EMA.

I'm about to leave for the day, but a quick question to you.

As a "recovering" WW, should I stay on Plan A or do you think this is the optimal time for Plan B?

One other piece of info:

OM has been unemployed, making him available anytime W wants to talk. However, in 2 weeks he starts to school full time for 7 months. He has already told W that he is not going to be avialable to her as much.

My original thought was Plan A like crazy for 7 months.

GG:

Definitely plan A for as long as you can while still remaining sane. That's what I was alluding 2 when I said that going home or staying in the hotel (or an apartment) was your call. You CAN do a remote plan A if that's your choice. I don't know when D-day was for you, but if it was recent, then you should probably plan A a bit longer before going 2 plan B.

I never really did a plan B. I've been in plan A for 33 months. It hasn't always been good, in fact it's been very difficult at times. But since my W's A was primarily an EA with RM living 2 states away, I didn't have 2 deal with them being 2gether after D-day. So, that, and the length of time we've been M'd made me realize that it's going 2 take a long time for her 2 heal, if she does. I'd rather be home with my family than elsewhere, even while recovery progresses only VERY slowly.

Your W needs 2 realize that her "friendship" is inappropriate 2 your M, and that you won't put up with it. You need 2 plan A by the book and negotiate an end 2 that relationship. And if she refuses, you may need 2 consider moving away and/or going 2 plan B.

It's good that it's exposed on both sides now. Exposure will put a dent in it for sure, hastening its end.

best,
-ol' 2long

GG-
BTW- I'm from Georgia as well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm not a expert but I think to Plan A her as long as you can stand it.

Seeing the pain you're going through makes me see how selfish these EMR's really and truly are. Before I was thinking only of my needs that my H is not meeting. Even though I've asked time and time again and asked him to go to MC it doesn't justify.

2long:

I don't quite know your story. You say you have been plan A'ing for 33 months? Did your wife end the affair? How have things been? I assume that if you ghave been plan A'ing for 33 months that she did not end the affair? Fill me ine, i am interested in your story.

LM:

Well, not 2 threadjack, but:

W had 12-yr, on and off A with a former classmate in gradschool that she worked with for a time during the "first affair" and then he worked as a consultant for her during the 2nd. Mostly EA, but they were physical a few times during the first, and "once and a half" the 2nd time about 3.5 years ago.

Since d-day, the "friendship" continued, RM got thrown out by his W, is now DV'd and dating again. I think the A "ended" a little over a year ago, but sporadic contact 2 try 2 maintain the friendship, then the professional relationship, continued until a 2ple of months ago. I THINK she's being truthful and contact has stopped, but I don't know for sure.

We've had bad times and good times since d-day. Mostly in the past several months, they've been relatively good. Penny Tupy believes we're in recovery and the A isn't going on, and she knows more than I do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I tend 2 be a "wait and see before drawing ANY conclusions or getting your hopes up" kind of guy, so I may sound more pessimistic than I should. I have no idea whether it's "right" that we stay 2gether or not. I *think* we will. But we've got a ways 2 go.

Oh. My W never left me 2 be with RM. RM lives 2 states away and even during the 2nd A, from 2000-2002, they only saw each other 3 times and were intimate "one and a half" of those times. After d-day, they didn't see each other until summer last year, and only in his workplace and not alone. They saw each other in March this year when my W was on a field trip 2 his workplace. She 2k our son as a "chaparone" of sorts on that trip. I sent my only "confrontation" email 2 him just before that visit. All hell broke loose for a time after that, but we've been doing better since summer.

-ol' 2long

The latest update:

First, thanks to all for the kind words.

W called again yesterday and left a long message on my phone at work. She told me she was in the back yard cutting roses from the rose garden and looking at all the other assorted blooming flowers. She (in tears) told me that for the first time she realizes that I planted all of that for her because I love her and she is sorry she hasn't told me how much that means to her. She apologized for not recognizing all that I do for her because I love her. So....

I went home and we sat on the deck for a long time talking. She told me how much she loves me and how much I mean to her. She says I just speak a different "love language" (yes, I've read the book) and that she needs me to be able to understand her and attach to her emotions. (something OM has been able to do).

We agreed that LB'ing is causing much pain and we've got to stop fighting.

I decided that Plan A looked blissful and Plan B looked lonely, so I stayed home last night. She cooked me a good dinner (the first in a long time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )and then we went to bed (she was warm and snuggly.) I woke up at 4:00 AM to find WW out of bed and back on the phone with OM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I've got an appt this afternoon with a female counselor who I hope can help me understand better how to really meet these needs of my W that I seem to be unable to grasp.

PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS BEHAVIOR OF YOURS. I am really struggling with this. Your wife just was supposedly so "heartfelt" with you and you had a nice night and all ,and then she is out of bed at 4am talking to the OM and you are here asking "why did she do that, why aren't I meeting her needs". This is why I have such a problem with these plans. SHE LIED TO YOU !!! She is still having an affair, and is NOT in recovery with you. What culpability dioes she have in this. You CANNOT recover while she is still in the affair. Do you think being all lovey dovey, and "being nice" is gonna just woo her back ??????? I am not trying to be offensive, but you have been doing this for 1 year.....perhaps, another plan is in order here. I feel sorry for you as it has to be frustrating as hell in you doing the samne things over and over again and getting the same results. That is insanity brother. Good luck !

Ouch !!

Perhaps your assessment is in order. Today I'm asking myself if I've done the right thing, or if I ahould have just stayed gone while I had the ball rolling in that direction.

Geogiaguy:

Please do not think that I am here to give you $hit about a decision you made. You asked for opinions and I am giving you mine. While the majority of people here will tell you to keep going A and that her behavior is "not really here" and that this is all "fog", I can't or won't do that. If you continue to stay in Plan A you are MISAPPLYING it's use. Your wife is not committed to getting the marriage back on track. Why would you sleep in the same bed as her while she gives all of her emotionlal love to someone else. You are not in the thores of a recent D-day, this is over 1 year old now. You now bare the responsibility for allowing yourslef to continue to be treated as less than a sposuse should be treated. You have also said that "she will never give up OM" "She lives for him". Well, I ask you then, what EN is she giving you. Honestly, you are never going to give her the chance to miss you and what you give to her life by always sacrificng yourself for her. She has to know that you are a strong man, and that you can live without her. Only then will you have a chance to end this A. You continue to satisfy her needs on "her terms". When she feels that maybe she is losing a little control, she knows that she can reel you back in with a little dinner and hug. YOU CAN'T LET HER CONTINUE TO DO THIS TO YOU. GO DARK AND NOW. At the risk of repeating myslef here, you are the textbook defn of a man insane: In this I mean: You are doing the same things over and over and over again while expecting different results. That is what I mean by insanity. This would drive anyone insane. Now I am going to wanr you that many if not all people on here are gonna tell you stay Plan A and to just meet your wife's En's and that that is all that should matter. You can try it that way also, but you can just count on histort repeating itslef. Good luck my friend.

Please don't think I mean disrespect. I don't, it was not untill I did the above did I save myslelf. The marriage CANNOT be saved by you alone despite what people may tell you here. You are exisiting in life not living it.