H (1 month after I called OWH)has finally decided to talk to me about something. He has been pretending that nothing happened. Lies, lies, lies. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Fog, fog, fog.

He was very very upset and angry last night. I think everything was perfectly in line with things I expected, things SH outlines in the book. But my question is, does this mean I am finally making progress? I thought his silence meant exposure wasn't working. (For the record, he was to talk and I was to listen. No replies or rebuttals allowed.)

1. He was very angry about some money I moved. There was a large sum of cash in the house. On exposure day, almost half of that money disappeared. (I think he took it to give to OW in case she had to leave her husband.) I took the rest of it and moved it to where he couldn't get it and give the rest to her. My lawyer advised me to move all of it before exposure, but I didn't want to.
By the way, we have always been extremely open with each other about money. Until the A, and then everything was a big secret. He said I was accusing him of stealing. (Well, duh!)What would you call it when he takes our marital assets and spends it on OW? Half of it is mine, and he is spending my half. I call that theft. There can be no trust on my part as long as he continues to hide things, and tell lies.

2. He accused me of tapping his cell phone. (I have not tapped it. Don't even know if the technology exists to do that. It's not available to me, if it is. I do, however, know what was in some of their voice messages. But he doesn't know for sure. (I think he was fishing for information)

3. He threatened me because he said the phone belongs to his company. All our phones are on the same account, the company account.

4. He told me he hadn't called her in a month. (No, maybe not, but they still meet secretly every day, sometimes more than once. They do everything with voice messages on the cell phone, and 750 text messages a month. He of course denied that. They even made motel reservations once (maybe more than once in the past month). They cancelled the reservations when I started weeping uncontrollably the night before.

5. He accused me of getting his phone records and bank records. I have not done this, but I already have access to his bank records, at least the ones I know about. My name is on them, too. I believe he has a secret account that he shares with her, but I don't yet have proof of that. I do have proof of the secret credit card. (At least one of them.)

6. He accused me of being crazy. That's textbook, and I was expecting it. He accused me of making stuff up. I said he had two phone lines on his cell phone. (When I or my son or anyone else calls, it says LINE 2 on his cell phone. So what is line one, pray tell? He denies this. Said I was crazy, and making things up.

7. He told me that if I contacted OWH again, he would leave. He said I didn't know what a bad thing I had done contacting OWH because he is physically and verbally abusive to both his wife and kids. (I know for a fact that he loves his children more than anything. I have not contacted OWH again, because it didn't seem to do any good the first time. I think he is in denial.) Said that even if he only THOUGHT I had fed more information to OWH, he would leave. He accused me of doing this as revenge against OW. (No, it was EXPOSURE)

8. Told me I was a b***h. Nothing new. Has been saying that off and on since he took up with OW. Never said it before in 32 years of marriage.

9. He told me he had been unhappy in the marriage for 20 years. (Rewriting the history of the M)

He said this was not a discussion, so there was little back and forth between us. At the end of his "talk" I asked if I could say something. He said yes, but that if he didn't want to answer or hear what I had to say, he would walk away. I told him it was not revenge, and then he wouldn't let me say any more on the subject. I didn't get to say the word "exposure of the affair." I did end up apologizing over the way I handled the subject of the money. (I really didn't do it well the night I asked him why such a large sum of money was in the house. Even though he lied about it three times, I apologized because I didn't handle the whole incident in a good way.) I did not offer to return the money.

I did ask him if he wanted to remain married to me. He said yes. I asked him if he still loved me at all - even a little bit. He said yes.
But he said he was trying to "get through this" day by day. As though I am the one who is doing the wrong thing and I am the one being judged. He knows that I am afraid of him leaving me, so his threat to leave was the worst thing he could think of. I again repeated that I did not want a divorce.

I think this is classic WH behavior.
Does this mean I am getting somewhere?
What do I do next?

Someone please give me advice. I need it.

Sounds like par for course. Nio accused me of "ruining it all" with VD. Dork. (did I write that out loud?)

Expect more sulleness for awhile.

As for OW and your wh - you don't know what lies they've been feeding each other. The fog lets them believe the lies.

(((starz)))

No advice, 'cept maybe - keep on keepin on, it sounds like you're holding your own so far!

GREAT BIG HUGS {{{{{{STARZ}}}}}}

((((starz)))))

How very familiar this all sounds to me.

Our ages, time of M, and D-Days are VERY similar.

Your D-Day was Mother's Day. Know what I got for Mother's day? An STD from WH! WOOOHOOO!

Like Niosgirl wrote outloud.... DORK!!!!!

It's a cryin' shame that the actions of someone close to us can turn us into a suspicious, skulking, sneak!

We HAVE to do it....otherwise things would go on just the same.

Sounds like you are doing great. There are many ways to find things out....I am still looking for new ways.

But seriously..... chin up! And do what you have to do.

K

thanks for your replies.

I was disappointed I didn't get to "Orchid" him - reverse babble. I think I feel that I was definitely at a disadvantage again - he tends to bully me verbally. I didn't stand up for myself enough. But he was on the attack with me and I just sat there and tried not to stir up wrath. I am sure I will either have more opportunities to reverse babble or he will leave. I don't know which. I guess everything doesn't have to be done in one night.

But I do think he's scared. Otherwise he wouldn't have been so angry. (At least that's what I think.)

Starz, I would call this progress. However, while he is still fooling with her he won't make much progress, you will still be the enemy.

Gosh, when this is all done, I'm guessing he is going to be so impressed with you. I sure the heck am. Right now, your knowledge is irratating as he11 to him, which is very funny to us, but I'm sure driving him crazy, but when it is done, he will respect you for it.

{{{STARZ}}}

Jelly

Typical deep fog. Have heard the same thing a hundred times. Progress? Possibly, but not much. I don't mean to be a wet blanket, it's just you reallly don't know. You gotta have faith in the method, but whatever comes out of the WH's mouth when they are involved in an affair cannot be trusted. A lot of people on this board waste a LOT of energy trying to decipher the WS's words and find some ray of hope. WS's are confused, they don't really know what they think OR feel, and it changes by the minute, sometimes. So, try to detach a little and work your plan.

There a couple of good Plan A links in my signature line post by Zorweb and Cerri that are worth reading if you haven't seen them already.

Good luck. Pray.

<small>[ October 23, 2004, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Angry fogbabble from exposure is what you got there darling! Great job! He sure stewed for awhile. Remember not to believe the cr*pola about OWH and such...this is a typical ploy/lie fed to him by OW and he of course always believes her.

At least something ruffled his feathers, but you just keep Plan A'ing for now and you'll be fine. Try not to analyze his every word, as johnh says.

Yep, looks to me like you are doing good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Hang in there. You are making progress.

starz,

Hi chere. What we know about the biochemistry of infatuation or the "attraction" stage of love is that it produces very powerful drugs in the brain. The dopamine, serotinin and adrenil that are released mirror the effect of cocaine and are just about as addictive. Those drugs create the fog...and can literally blind us to the shortcomings of the object of our affections. However, they aren't lasting. They peak at about six months....and isn't it interesting that it's about six months since d-day? hmmmm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Anyway, I suspect that until now, not much you said or did made it through the chemical cocktail that's been affecting his thinking. Don't give up....because now that he may be on the "downside" he will begin to have moments of clarity, and you have a far greater opportunity to get through to him.

So have you told him what you know and how you know it? That is a big part of confrontation that's needed for Plan A. Many folks are scared to do this because they often lose the ability to track them after that....but quite frankly....so what? By this time, you know the score and more information is superfluous....just overkill. He'll either be willing to go to no contact or not. Also....you are reaching the stage where Plan A is giving you diminishing returns. It is designed to last only for six months....so I'd like you to begin planning to go to Plan B. Start considering what that's going to look like for you. Please don't be one of these folks who says "I'll do anything to save my marriage" but then when it's time for Plan B says "Oh, I can't do THAT!"

(((((((((((((((((starz)))))))))))))))))

<small>[ October 23, 2004, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

I really have nothing to add here but wanted to say I am extremely impressed with your calmness during this onesided conversation of his. You avoided LB'ing and simply listened to him. That impresses me to no end <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pay very close attention to what Star*fish is saying to you. She is right on in my opinion.

Starfish or Weaver or whoever:

I don't know if I use the term D-day correctly.

Affair started over 2 years ago. First emotional, became physical June 30, 2003.

I didn't suspect a thing until January of 2004 - I did feel uncomfortable about their friendship the whole time - but I still didn't know about EAs at that time.

In March I found evidence of her being "in love" with him and suspected they were planning a future together. (from the evidence I found)
He talked me out of it, denied everything, and I believed him. After a third of a century of telling nothing but the truth, who wouldn't believe him?

On Mother's day I discovered evidence that it was, indeed, a physical affair. I call that Dday, because that's when I discovered it. I don't know if that is actually what you call dday or not.

I began gathering evidence that would be admissible in court if it ever went to that. It took 6 months to get that evidence.

I only revealed to OWH and to H what I knew last month.

I didn't discover MB until July, I think. I immediately tried to start learning and plan a'ing. I guess I assumed that the 6 months recommended was from when I confronted him, not from when I discovered. ??? In that I have known or suspected for almost a year now, I don't feel ready yet to Plan B - I still love him as much as ever,and consider this to be part of the "in sickness" vow and the "better or worse" one. I do feel great pain at certain times, but he has only known that I know for a month. I know it won't happen immediately (ending the affair) and I think there is some hope that the fog will begin to rise. He is scared. So which is dday - my discovery or my making him aware that I know???

We are going to a wedding today and will be out of town until late Sunday night. If I don't seem to reply, it might be Monday morning or so before I can get back to this web site.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate this web site. I feel God led me here in answer to my prayers. Thank you all so much.

Hi again starz....well, the "attraction stage" usually peters out around the two year mark time period (which is why Dr. H recommends Plan B for up to two years before beginning to date)..this just gets curiouser and curiouser. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'd suggest doing a "sterling" Plan A for a little longer....his body language is encouraging...could mean nothing...but then again...maybe he's coming out of that fog. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />