</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Stanley--Wayward tendencies?? Please! If we had these tendencies it would be several affairs,not only one.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, great post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


Turtlehead, hello and welcome, I am the President of the Bob Pure fan club, would you like a T-shirt? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Awww this fan club thing is awfully embarassing. * blush *

I think you lot are forgetting the drunk loser who couldn't even drive straight into a tree a few months ago....

Its easier for me as I have said cos I love my wife. I'd die for her so a bit of patience isn't so much to invest.

An example - my FWW is watching " Coronation street": a terrible but popular soap opera in the UK.

my 7YO son bought a large maple leaf in earlier from his trip in the park.

To take my FWW a glass of wine I stripped off and fitted the Maple leaf with sellotape a la Adam and Eve. I took in the wine on a tray.

FWW looked me up and down and smiled. No more, She knows me so well.

How can we not recover when we do crap like that ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mebbe I should put THAT on a tee shirt ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Stanley568:
As for Myrta-------- she is an incredible woman and that is why I have forgiven her
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you Stanley?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To forgive is to grant pardon without harboring resentment:

OK, I have at times shown traces of resentment. Maybe that means I have not been able to fully forgive, but I would say I am 98% there. I had no idea I had to be happy as a clam once I had forgiven my wife. OK, so I am not happy 24/7.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She appears to be TRYING to move towards you and by quibbling over whether it is possible for her to understand that she may have not been as emotionally invested as she had thought, you appear to be resistant to her efforts. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe I am resistant, I don't really know, but I have to deal with all of this stuff and the only way I can do this is by talking about it. WWs tend to make us sweep stuff under the rug. I rather discuss the issues at nauseum until I have nothing else to say or even think about.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is ENOUGH hard work in recovery to begin with, don't clutter it up with quibbling with the WS over how they felt then and now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But, this is the main topic. I need to exchange views on the issue to assimilate this. One more thing------ it seems that recovery is way easier for WWs than for BHs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Work on the NOW, this is your shot. They are going to REALLY get it eventually, (promise!) but it won't happen if YOU are not the one meeting those emotional needs and applying the concepts you have learned on MB. The OP will only linger positively in the WSs mind if you don't do YOUR part. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believe me-------- I have done a lot. However, I will admit to high expectations and low tolerance for rejection. The only reason I stay married is because I truly love my wife. To be honest there is no other factor involved in my decision. If I wanted to leave there is nothing that would stop me other than my love for my wife.

In the aftermath of the affair I don't hear "I love you" from my wife unless I specifically ask her. OTOH, I say "I Love You" constantly. So I am pessimistic------------- shoot me!

<small>[ October 25, 2004, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Originally posted by Stanley568:

Maybe I am resistant, I don't really know, but I have to deal with all of this stuff and the only way I can do this is by talking about it. WWs tend to make us sweep stuff under the rug. I rather discuss the issues at nauseum until I have nothing else to say or even think about.

I understand Stanley but talk becomes cheap if the result leaves you unable to ACT upon recovery. A concern is that by focusing too much on issues that are essentially academic IF you are fortunate enough to have the opportunity at recovery, it becomes difficult to follow through on those "I love my wife!" feelings in a concrete way.

One more thing------ it seems that recovery is way easier for WWs than for BHs.

It's not easy for ANYONE, period. You might want to remember that the WS has twice as much to deal with than the BS . Ending a relationship whether it be a simple same sex friendship, a long term working relationship or an full blown affair is usually sad and/or difficult. In the case of an affair, add the simultaneous task of rebuilding a relationship with a RIGHTFULLY distrustful, angry betrayed spouse and you can see where it might be just might be a tad easier to be the BS.

Those who have been on both sides of the fence say that being the WS was way worse. Bob seemed to instinctively understand this uniform WS difficulty, there are some tremendous posts on this topic under his name that could be helpful to you, I think.

The only reason I stay married is because I truly love my wife. To be honest there is no other factor involved in my decision. If I wanted to leave there is nothing that would stop me other than my love for my wife.

Good reason Stanley, now you're thinking! Hold that thought close to your heart when you feel troubled.

In the aftermath of the affair I don't hear "I love you" from my wife unless I specifically ask her. OTOH, I say "I Love You" constantly. So I am pessimistic------------- shoot me!

So humor me, I am unfamiliar with your story....are you DOING everything you can to build up units in the Love Bank for the wife you love? Have you addressed the vacancies in her emotional needs from your end of things? MOST importantly, does your perception of your rebuilding efforts square with what your wife perceives? Would she agree with you?

If the answer is yes, than you are on your way. If it is not then you have some serious thinking to do about your own part in the recovery process. The ILYs come when the heart is full and will just tumble out without any prompting from you IF you are working hard at being a loving, forgiving husband to your formerly wayward wife.

It's not enough to say you've said the words "I love you", or "I forgive you" if the spouse doesn't "feel" it or "hear" it. It means that something is hindering their hearing and you want to be sure that it isn't YOUR body language, actions or words that are causing the block. If it's fog, then it's fog and that always lifts with time, but BSs do need to make sure that it's not inadvertently them in the meantime. Something to think about. And no Stanley, we don't want to shoot you...just SHOO you along into a productive recovery! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Best, KB

P.S. Pep, awesome work on the pregnancy board!! Much needed, IMO.

P.P.S. Geeze Bob, now I'm going to think of you every time I see that Adam and Eve in fig leaves picture on the Desperate Housewives show! Nice! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Knewbetter:

Thanks for your reply.
BTW, my reply is full of 2x4s, please do not take them personally, I am venting. I am also grateful you took the time to write to me---- it shows you are a caring person!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand Stanley but talk becomes cheap if the result leaves you unable to ACT upon recovery. A concern is that by focusing too much on issues that are essentially academic IF you are fortunate enough to have the opportunity at recovery, it becomes difficult to follow through on those "I love my wife!" feelings in a concrete way.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As a man I need to talk about these things. There is a strong need to understand why. It may be academic to you, but I have a piece of marital history that is completely dark. There are many things that I cannot understand. I am not a woman and I am basically a faithful guy. BTW, I am faithful because of my superego, it has northing to do with loving or not loving my wife. In fact my son who is 29 years old left his wife to pursue other relationships rather than to be unfaithful----- he just couldn't do it even thou he did not feel love for his wife anymore.

OK, so I still have some resentment---------- but how do I get rid of it if I am not allowed to speak my mind? I truly want to stay married and I adore my wife, but if I have resentment it simply means I need to talk to someone about it until it is all gone.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's not easy for ANYONE, period. You might want to remember that the WS has twice as much to deal with than the BS . Ending a relationship whether it be a simple same sex friendship, a long term working relationship or an full blown affair is usually sad and/or difficult. In the case of an affair, add the simultaneous task of rebuilding a relationship with a RIGHTFULLY distrustful, angry betrayed spouse and you can see where it might be just might be a tad easier to be the BS.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I never heard anyone say it was way better to be betrayed than wayward. IMHO, it can only be worse if the wayward spouse has to give up ultimate true love with the OM for a boring marriage with the BH.

However, all of you have said over and over again that love for the OM was phony--------- gee how hard can it be to give that up. Not only that------ most WWs have admitted that OM was the lesser man in most instances when compared to the BH. How hard must it be to leave such a gem of OM behind.

As for working with the BH. Pallez, it is not rocket science!

1. Simply show affection.
2. Go into NC and actually do it
3. Allow BH to vent against the OM. For God's sake BH has NO ONE else to vent against.
4. Do not rewrite marital history in such a way as to show that everything we did was a poor attempt to fill ENs. These affairs can also occur in very good marriages.
5. Don't apologize, I don't need that, but please do not blame the victim. Sure, there were some ENs that were vacant, but did it occur to you that the BH had plenty of vacancies as well and never considered an affair?
6. Be willing to talk. You are in a safe place. The BH wants to stay married, why make it so hard for the BH?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Those who have been on both sides of the fence say that being the WS was way worse. Bob seemed to instinctively understand this uniform WS difficulty, there are some tremendous posts on this topic under his name that could be helpful to you, I think. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I don't know about that. Perhaps you can tell me how it was for you. Do you know that I never had sex with any other woman, but my wife? I guess my worst punishment would be to be forced to have "out of this world sex" with another woman.

I bet you a case of Coca Cola that on the average BHs lose more weight and sleep less than WWs.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MOST importantly, does your perception of your rebuilding efforts square with what your wife perceives? Would she agree with you? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

My wife perceives that i have not fully forgiven her. I didn't realize that until today when I noted that any resentment means that I have not forgiven her. I thought that if I wanted to stay in the marriage and tried to improve our relationship it meant forgiveness.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The ILYs come when the heart is full and will just tumble out without any prompting from you IF you are working hard at being a loving, forgiving husband to your formerly wayward wife.
It's not enough to say you've said the words "I love you", or "I forgive you" if the spouse doesn't "feel" it or "hear" it. It means that something is hindering their hearing and you want to be sure that it isn't YOUR body language, actions or words that are causing the block.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

That is what she says, you are correct on this one!

Once again I apologize for some of my remarks, but I needed to vent today. BTW, I find I become irritable when I do not get lots of affection.

<small>[ October 25, 2004, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

As a man I need to talk about these things. There is a strong need to understand why

Stanley it appears to me that you do NOT want to understand why the affair happened. Instead you want the world to agree with your assertion that morally lower beings than your incorruptable 'faithful' self fall utterly in real lasting love with OPs therefore rendering any recovery shallow and forced.

Your wife has told you why she thinks she had the affair and how she felt about OM yet you don't seem to hear or believe her. Other FWS on here tell you near identical experiences yet you continue to rationalize against them because they don't conform to your view.

Like any of us you are , of course, entitled to hold whatever opinions you wish regarding your wife, affairs and recovery, but I think it is important that you realize that your pessimistic views are largely NOT supported by the evidence of experts and the anecdotal experiences of folks on here.

Regarding the relative pain of WS versus BS , of course I can no more fully understand the pain a WS goes through than you can but if you can imagine this: Assuming you recognize that it IS painful to get over an affair for a WS, now imagine feeling as bad as YOU do but without the righteous indignation: being sad for losing OP KNOWING that God winces at that very liason you are mourning; feeling bereaved knowing that NO-ONE on earth is fully sympathetic to you. Imagine being dependent on the caprice of a 'morally superior', wounded BS for your future recovery.

Imagine YOUR pain but with abyssal guilt.

Imagine that all the people you care about who know of the affair who support you actually hating , accusing and castigating you instead.

Imagine fearing for your eternal soul while even your loved ones point fingers at you for how bad you are rather than praying with you.

THAT is what I think my FWW is going through and I CRY for her. How can I profess to love her and not do all I can to help her recover ?

I am desperately hurt - maybe too hurt to ever recover from this A, but I will use whatever strength and love I have to make sure my baby is in a good place before we take any permanenent decisions.

I love her y'see. And as my dear Mom used to say "what you care is what you do".

All blessings to you and Myrta Stanley. This is hard for everyone.

Adding to my list of reasons I am a Bob Pure fan club member...great post Bob.

BOBPURE-- You should also add me to your list of fans! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
If my husband had the vision that you have, we would be much better by now. But like you said, he concentrates too much in the flaws of us WWs. Over and over again I had told him what SadWW and others have said here, but yet he still does not want to believe it. He has not yet forgivven me, and maybe he will never do. He loves me, I know that, but I tell him, that sometimes the "love" that he has is not enough to put this behind us.
Because I know there is always an "invisible finger" pointing at me, I cannot trust him completely, I cannot feel at ease, I feel like I am walking in eggshells.
I have done everything that he wanted me to do, change phones #s,getting rid of gifts,NC.
BOBPURE...Your wife is the luckiest woman in the world to have a man as sensitive as you. You will have a beautiful recovery of your marriage. You are the best!!
Hopefully "others" will get inspire by you!

MYRTA

Dear Myrta...my FWW would laugh if she saw what you wrote <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am sure she doesn't feel like the kuckiest woman in the world ! ( thanks though....when I'm sad any kudos is nice!).

Stanley is hurting more than he ever dreamed it was possible to hurt. We all manifest our hurt in different ways.

None of these manifestations is permanent IME and not truly representative of how we feel.

For some miraculous reason I have been able to seperate between my FWW and her affair. It was an utterly selfish, bitter, hurtful, sinful, vile, foul, near-demonic act by a good woman who I love given extraordinary circumstances.

She does not define me by my worst moment, what right do I have to define her by HER worst moment ? Do two seedy bangs in a by the hour motel and some mutual lying/handholding/eyegazing lunches over a couple of months render worthless 22 years of loving, experiential partnership ?

Stanley is going through a 'I need some SERIOUS sucking up for the rest of my life 'cos I've ben hurt !!!!' phase.

I did that very briefly, but my FWW would've slit my throat as I slept had I kept it up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

All blessings Myrta to you and Stanley. Give him a yard, darl' - he really is hurting and will manifest that differently as YOU will as you grow together.

TO BE HAPPY IS EASY ENOUGH IF WE
GIVE OURSELVES, FORGIVE OTHERS,
AND LIVE WITH THANKSGIVING.
NO SELF-CENTERED PERSON, NO UNGRA-
TEFUL SOUL CAN EVER BE HAPPY, MUCH
LESS MAKE ANYONE ELSE HAPPY.
LIFE IS GIVING, NOT GETTING.

Joseph Fort Newton
(1880-1950)


IN THOSE MOMENTS WHEN WE FORGET
OURSELVES- NOT THINKING, "Am I happy?"
BUT COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS TO OUR LITTLE
EGO-WE SPEND A BRIEF BUT BEAUTIFUL
HOLIDAY IN HEAVEN.

Eknath Easwaran

Hello all. This is my first post although I have been looking at these boards for about a month. I am a BH and was inspired to post because of the topic of this thread and the truly remarkable stories and insight that are contained here. I will not hijack this thread with my story, but will start a new thread and would like the insight from the FWW and others that have posted here.

Bob, you wrote a great post and I suspect you are correct, but I cannot say or express something I do not feel like saying. When I talk like this my wife sees Lbs and I simply fall deeper into the hole. At times I wish I had the smooth talk of an OM so I could say what they want to hear.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stanley it appears to me that you do NOT want to understand why the affair happened.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Bob, it is comforting for the WW to hear the BH say: “It was my fault, please forgive me, I will try to do better next time!” In fact, this is also easier to accept for the BH. The other version where the wife had an affair despite having a good marriage is more painful to the BH.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Instead you want the world to agree with your assertion that morally lower beings than your incorruptable 'faithful' self fall utterly in real lasting love with OPs therefore rendering any recovery shallow and forced.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Bob, I don’t consider myself morally superior because I am faithful. I don’t think I am faithful because of morality or religion. I am faithful because that is the way I am. I don’t know why I turned out this way and I don’t look down on my wife or anyone else. In fact my wife is vastly superior to me as a person. She is much more caring, loving, and has a great sense of humor. In my profession the opportunities to cheat are plentiful and I never crossed that line. Trust me I did not do that because I was pious. If we believe the MB theories then my wife must have done a masterful job filling my ENs. In fact Myrta is the best wife any man can hope to have. I cannot think of any other reason as to why I am faithful, I am a fairly liberal person and tend to be very accepting of others. I simply NEVER had that need.




</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your wife has told you why she thinks she had the affair and how she felt about OM yet you don't seem to hear or believe her. Other FWS on here tell you near identical experiences yet you continue to rationalize against them because they don't conform to your view.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I guess my trust bank is fully depleted. My biggest fear is that the marriage will never be the same and that I will never regain my trust in my wife. I also fear more contact with OM and a perennial withdrawal that will get in the way of recovery.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">your pessimistic views are largely NOT supported by the evidence of experts and the anecdotal experiences of folks on here.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I hope you are correct, Bob. However, we are listening to a select group of converts in the forum. Do I believe it is possible? Yes, I believe it can be done! However, it requires extraordinary dedication between spouses. My wife spent some time posting to JL about this. There are some things that she is not ready to do yet regarding recovery. I guess I am not there yet as I have discovered some resentment within me. According to the definition of “to forgive” as long as I have a trace of resentment I have not forgiven with all my heart. Bob, one cannot fake these feelings. My only recourse is to talk about it until I have no more resentment left in my system.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Regarding the relative pain of WS versus BS , of course I can no more fully understand the pain a WS goes through than you can but if you can imagine this: Assuming you recognize that it IS painful to get over an affair for a WS, now imagine feeling as bad as YOU do but without the righteous indignation: being sad for losing OP KNOWING that God winces at that very liason you are mourning; feeling bereaved knowing that NO-ONE on earth is fully sympathetic to you. Imagine being dependent on the caprice of a 'morally superior', wounded BS for your future recovery.
Imagine YOUR pain but with abyssal guilt.
Imagine that all the people you care about who know of the affair who support you actually hating , accusing and castigating you instead.
Imagine fearing for your eternal soul while even your loved ones point fingers at you for how bad you are rather than praying with you.
THAT is what I think my FWW is going through and I CRY for her. How can I profess to love her and not do all I can to help her recover ?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Bob, that was powerful and you have made me see something I suspected in a clear manner. The affair is a secret----------- no one in our family knows. Our close friends don’t know----- we don’t go to MC-------- so we cannot vent to anyone. I tell my wife everyday not to have any remorse or shame. I remind her of all the good times and why I want to stay married to her. I even point out the benefits of the discovery of the affair. I would never shame her by revealing this to anyone. In fact I would gladly take the blame to protect Myrta.

You are also correct in one thing: You and I will heal from this at some point and there will be no sequela. We did not inflict harm on another person and I accept that this is a greater pain to endure-- perhaps for a lifetime. I tell my wife I am close to 100%, but I cannot fake my feelings. She says I look at her in a certain way and she feels she is not forgiven. Perhaps she overestimates my so-called looks. I don’t think I walk around the house with accusing eyes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am desperately hurt - maybe too hurt to ever recover from this A, but I will use whatever strength and love I have to make sure my baby is in a good place before we take any permanenent decisions.
I love her y'see. And as my dear Mom used to say "what you care is what you do".</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Bob, where did you learn to talk like an OM?

A little story:

Shortly after D-day I was VERY ANGRY. The OM called my wife and was indignant when he learned I was angry. OM said: “If I was your husband I would simply ask for forgiveness for not performing like a good husband. I would ask---- where did I go wrong?”.

OM had a history of infidelity. My wife said to him: “At least my husband is faithful------ you are not!”

This anecdote came from Myrta and perhaps she can expand on it.


Anyway Bob------ thanks to you I am learning. Complete forgiveness is the key. I thought I had done that, but I guess I was wrong. I need to remove that 1% of resentment from my system. My wife can perceive is there and that is a problem. However, I am 100% certain I am staying married and I will never leave my wife.

You talk about deciding whether we make a permanent decision., what do you mean by that?

Bob, where did you learn to talk like an OM?
THAT was just plain nasty, Stanley...below the belt.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You talk about deciding whether we make a permanent decision., what do you mean by that?

FWW and I are in a sort of 'emergency recovery' phase. Learning how to live, breathe and interact again after the nuke hit us. I suspect we will decide to make a go of our M again but neither of us are properly equipped to know what that means right now. I am mortally wounded but for some reason I have the strength right now. I must be strong and supportive until FWWs strength returns.

Only then can we POJA as true partners in this mess what we intend to do. FWW can't take action spainful to her right now and she has a LOT of those to do if we are to heal and recover. Thats why permanent decisions have to wait a while.

All blessings Mate,to you and your lovely missus.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bob, where did you learn to talk like an OM?
THAT was just plain nasty, Stanley...below the belt </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bob, I give anything if I could talk to women like OMs do---------- It obviously works!

Bob, maybe I did not forgive my wife 100% yet, but I am 200% sure I will stay married to her and I believe she feels the same way.

So where does that place our relationship?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FWW and I are in a sort of 'emergency recovery' phase. Learning how to live, breathe and interact again after the nuke hit us. I suspect we will decide to make a go of our M again but neither of us are properly equipped to know what that means right now
I am mortally wounded but for some reason I have the strength right now. I must be strong and supportive until FWWs strength returns.
Only then can we POJA as true partners in this mess what we intend to do. FWW can't take action spainful to her right now and she has a LOT of those to do if we are to heal and recover. Thats why permanent decisions have to wait a while. .</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In guess we are all different. Sixteen hours after knowing of the affair I told my wife I was committed to stay married. Myrta dumped OM instantly even after I told her I was a goner (1st 16 hours I was). We are committed to this. I don’t envision my life without her. Her affair was two years and fairly intense Bob. I have a whole lot more to digest than you.

As I said, I have fears:

1. Further OM interference (He was fairly resistant to accept wife dumped him).
2. Perennial withdrawal
3. No love return from Myrta

That is it!

Stanley- can I just make one suggestion?

You said:


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
<strong> ]Bob, I give anything if I could talk to women like OMs do---------- It obviously works!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If that is the case- then DON'T say things like this- in a forum that you KNOW your wife reads:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
<strong>
It is amazing to hear so many WWs including my own wife saying---- “gee it was not real love”. Well------------ this information is coming from a subset of folks who define themselves as women who are highly stimulated by any cunning man who is a smooth talker and says to them what they want to hear. That sort of makes them shallow and places them into the “dreamer Disneyland” category of people. !</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and this:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
<strong>

I bet you faithful men or women would not go thru so many hoops to explain who they love and who they don’t love. And I am almost certain that when they love------------- THEY REALLY LOVE! I am sorry, but this is the perspective of those of us who choose to be faithful.!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not attacking you, Stanley- just urging you to consider how much of an LB that is. I am NOT addressing what is going on with Myrta here- whether or not she is doing what she needs to do etc etc b/c I frankly don't know exactly what is going on with the two of you. And I'm not addressing whether or not this is a *right* or *wrong opinion*- just advising you think about how saying somethihng like that will impact your relationship. Minimizing these kind of statements can't do anything but help the situation.

Just my opinion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Stanley, while I am sure there sre some serial OMs with a well-defined chat up routine (like my FWWs OM) I tink its fair to say that OMs talk like you did when you first met Myrta. It is very flattering to be considered fascinating, beautiful and to be patiently and totally 'heard'. For many folks that fills LBs to overflowing as thats just the sort of thing that we husbands don't do as much over the years of familiarity.

My FWW says the A was about companionship for her - she was lonely. That KILLS me but I have to recognise the part I played in that feeling.

OM talk is typically just patient, listening, flattering, with plenty of self-aggrandising speil thrown in for good measure IMO.

I don;t think I can be accused of that on these boards given my IBS and Charmin discussions with Niosgirl ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

FWIW I am truly listening FASCINATED to my FWW fir the first time in years. I had forgotten what an interesting person she is. Just shutting up and listening properly. At dinner together the other day i could hardly take my eyes off her. Lovely, funny, interesting. GOD no wonder OM went for her with daggers drawn. * sigh *


Maybe if we BS were as attentive at OMs the A would not have happeneing in some cases ?

I dunno.

SW:

Your point is well taken. My wife Myrta was not happy about those comments either. However, they reflect my frustration relatively well. I want to apologize to you as well if you were offended.

FAO Myrta LOL !

My FWW just bought me a glass of sherry and a slice of home made fruitcake. She gave me a kiss and said " You make me the luckiest woman alive. THANK you for loving me". Her smile was worth a million pounds.

I almost fell off my chair ! You are psychic !
LOL !

It was really nice too. I'm pretty touched.

Bob, I'm the only one who picked up that you sellotaped a maple leaf to your(naked) self and took your wife coffee while she was watching Corrie.

LMAO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jen

Sorry Bob if you feel this is threadjacking. I do think it is relevant to the topic.

Stanley!
I hope I can clear up the forgiveness issue a little bit. We are not perfect in our forgiveness. When the pain hits us again the resentment starts over again, and we have to forgive again, and than again, and again …
Thus forgiveness is a process, and a dedication. It is not a once only decision. There are times when the pain is raw that the forgiveness is “taken back”. Think of the forgiving as building a mansion. It takes time to finish.

There are things to do that will help the process. Listening, try to see through the glasses of the S and wear her shoes. Trying to feel her reality.
I think both you and her will be disappointed if you think that a forgiveness so early in recovery is a once only decision. It is a long battle. So fight that battle each day!

God bless your battle!

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Frank57 ]</small>