MB experts, I really need help changing these selfish demands into boundaries. I am trying to grasp the concept. thanks for any help you may give.

Danneill


These are my boundaries:

I will no longer tolerate lies. You have told me numerous ones, whether they are meant to cover up your drinking or whatever it is that you cover with them, I will no longer tolerate them. Lies and deceit do not belong in a marriage.

I will no longer tolerate disloyalty and disrespect, which means, MY feelings and our marital problems are NO ONE ELSE?S BUSINESS! This also includes my children?s lives. What they do, or have done is NO ONE else?s business. If you feel you need to talk about our marriage with your friends or maybe with your mother, then fine, but ONLY IF you are respectful of my own and my childrens privacy. I have always given you the same consideration and will continue to do so.

I will no longer tolerate your verbal and emotional abuse. I will no longer argue with you and use verbal abuse towards you, And I will no longer allow you to use the same conduct towards me and my children.

I will no longer tolerate you blaming me for other peoples actions.
I will no longer tolerate you accusing me of actions I am not guilty of, like giving people money or paying their bills or going behind your back to accommodate others.

If you are drunk, in a foul mood or pissed off about something, DO NOT COME HOME! You need to make arrangements with your mom or one of your friends to stay the night there. Since you are usually with Mike, I?m sure he has a couch for you to borrow. I will no longer tolerate an aggressive drunk. You get mean when you drink.

I am no expert here so what I think may not count for anything. I think that none of the demands you made were selfish. Those are basic things that people want to be treated decently. That is all you are asking for, a little respect. i don't know your situation, I would temper it to your WH in a manner that reaches him, lets him know your there, but won't threaten him or worse set him off.

I like the idea, but it contains too many disrepectful judgements. How about if it is more like this -

I feel like our marriage has become a marriage that is no longer protective of each other. In order to feel safe, protected and loved by you, and you by me, I feel that some boundaries need to be put into place. Boundaries which have over time eroded, so that our home is no longer a safe haven for us both and our children, but a battle ground where love has become a stranger.

The following are boundaries that I must insist on for the preservation of our marriage.

1. No lying

2. No disloyalty. Our problems our discussed only between the two of us and an MC if we enter into counseling. Or the problems of our children.

3. No blaming, no accusing.

4. No drinking in this home, or coming home drunk. If this happens, please plan on making arrangements to stay somewhere else.

----------------------------------------

And then stick to it Danniell, he has to know that these boundaries are non negotiable.

I assume you are going to try this before you make your final decision to leave. I hope that this works, but if you have to leave you will have put into place the conditions and deal breakers.

Good luck!

Edited to add:

No verbal abuse, no name callings, no disrestful judgements towards each othe or the children.

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

Thanks Bear04 and weaver. I appreciate the replies.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I assume you are going to try this before you make your final decision to leave. I hope that this works, but if you have to leave you will have put into place the conditions and deal breakers. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I'd like to try this before I leave and after also since I will be next door and will still be coming in the house to do the books for the business.

Last year I wrote him a letter in which I poured my heart out. He ignored it for several days, then blasted me while very drunk. There was more in the letter, ..much about why I felt our M was in such bad shape,...my reasons for thinking he was having a A,....

He promised to return the letter after he read it. He promised he would not read it while drinking. I did not want the kids or his friends or the OW to see the letter. He hid the letter and would not give it back. Said he was going to print it in the local paper, make copies and distribute them ect....

Basically said how dare I,...that the letter made him look like a worthless piece of sh*t. Anyway, he was really mad. I found the letter and he wanted it back. That's when (drunk as heck) he said if I ever touch anything of his again it'll be the last thing I do in my life.

I would like to re-phrase my boundaries and try again. The ones I asked about were in the letter.
He failed to see all the good things I wrote about him in the letter. He also failed to see my statements about how much I love him.

Alcoholics don't take it very well when you put their behavior in writing.

Anyway, that's why I needed these to be respectful boundaries instead of selfish demands and disrespectful judgements. I see now why one of the MB experts said that that is what they were.
Danneill

Dear Danneill ~

Selfish demands require the other person to change.

Setting boundaries require that you change.

I like the way weaver said it better. And if he wants to expose how big of jerk he is acting like to the rest of town by publishing your letter, let him. No sane person will ever think any less of you for trying to save your marriage. Meanwhile he will be met with disgust and it may be the wakeup call he needs. Best part is he did it to himself.

You should never have to fear for your safety either. Drunk, threatening...no way go next door, stay away from him. Someone who really loves you would not give you so much fear.

Thank you BrambleRose, I understand now.

You are right Bear04. I have never treated anyone like he treats me
when he is drinking.

So my next question is....What do I do when my boundaries
are not respected? I have no way of enforcing them other than
no contact, which will be next to impossible in the business we
are in without shooting myself in the foot.

At this time I am not sleeping with him. I have a room upstairs.
He leaves early a.m., and comes home 10-11 p.m. We are in the
midst of harvest here. No time to talk, or for him to go to MC.
I am going to MC myself. Don't think he is drinking much, probably
only a couple per night since he is so busy.

The moveing next door idea is because I have so much responsibility here.
12 horses in the barn to care for, 2 dogs and several cats, and
couple house pets. Plus DD is junior in high school.

I see his pattern beginning with this DD. Similar to the way he treats
my older DD (which has been terrible in the past). This DD is his. He was way out of line this morn when
she did not get up in time for school. Yelled at her very mean, and he
was sober. He's in a foul mood because his Dad wrecked a piece of
equipment last night. I had to listen to all the F words last night.

My Mother is also concerned about me going next door as he will probably
drink heavy when I leave him. I wish that he would move. He is the
one who should, but he has refused.

I'll figure something out...

I did get brave and transfer 1/2 of our savings to my acct. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> This was
a BIG step for me. Boy will he
be irrate if and when he finds that out. I knew I had to do it. I was afraid that
he would move all of it when I move.
Now I just hope all the girls in our small town
bank don't blab that info.

Danneill

How are you going to enforce these boundaries? Bramblerose gave you the answer - you change yourself.

You remove yourself from any situation which is ugly, you instruct the girls to do the same. Don't let him pull you into any ungliness. You enlist the aid of the police when necessary.

You have the brains and the gumption to change this around. I know you do, it shows in your posts.

After awhile he gets the message - you aren't playing anymore.

Remove yourself from any ugliness. If you have to respond you do so in a calm manner, one of strength and reserve.

Use your womanly strength and wisdom. Like Orchid says, act like a dove but think like a serpent.

Danneill ~

Setting boundaries means taking the focus off of him, and putting the focus on you.

Right now your focus is on getting him to stop lying, betraying, blaming and coming home drunk.

You can not change his behavior. You can change yours.

What do you choose to live with?

Do not mistake me, I am not saying dump the bum. But I disagree with some of the other responses here.

That you want to be treated respectfully is understandable. But attempting to force a specific individual to treat you in a certain way is not setting a boundary, it is a selfish demand. (You change so I can be happy).

Plan B is a PERFECT example of a big giant boundary. Plan B says "I choose not to live with lying, betrayal, blame, abuse and anger, so I am removing myself from this situation." Plan B protects the BS from harm, but it does not force the WS to stop the affair.

You can not force your husband to stop doing any of the things he is doing.

You CAN choose to remove yourself from a hurtful situation. You can also choose to call the police if your husband comes home drunk and angry. You can choose to take the children and leave if he comes home drunk and angry. You can choose to ignore his blaming accusations - you do not have to accept his accusations as truth. You can choose to Plan B. You can choose divorce. You can choose to believe that when his lips are moving that he is lying instead of assuming that he is telling the truth and being devastated each new time you uncover a lie.

There are many ways of drawing boundaries - you have to decide what is right for you - but none of those choices involve the other person changing - it only requires YOU to make the choices and take the actions.

<small>[ October 27, 2004, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: BrambleRose ]</small>

weaver, you and orchid are so wise. Thank you.

This morn when he was yelling at our DD she did something that I NEVER thought she would do. This child (17 in couple weeks) has NEVER talked back to her father. She told him to shut up. I could not believe it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I spoke with her after she left and advised her that she should not disrespect him like that again.

If this instance comes up between he and I, I can guarantee that I will get the blame. He'll claim that I have turned her against him and brainwashed her. That is how he thinks...

And if he does, I'll walk right out the door..guaranteed.
Danneill

BrambleRose,

I think our posts crossed and I did not see yours until today.
I appreciate your thoughtful response. I hope you are recovering well since your surgery.

I am beginning to understand what you mean.

I tried to talk to him today before I read your post. Not an easy task. I again asked him to move.
My reason being, that I cannot live like this, nor do I want to live like this any longer.
I don’t feel my DD and I should be the ones to move when he is the one
that brings the baggage home to us.

Of course he just disregards my feelings, justifies his behavior because I did this or that,
and refuses to move. So if plan B it is, then I’ll be the one to move. His words were, “If you want
to separate, then get the F##k out of here, go, move.” <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Its hard to understand this man. One minute he says he wants to work out our problems, starting right now, today, 10-29-04…forget everything before now. The
next minute he’s dragging up arguments from 10 years ago. I am not allowed to continue feeling and acknowledging pain from the past. It is to be forgotten unless he can use something from the past to hurt me with,,,,for ammo. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

BUT, No matter what has occurred, in his mind, NOTHING has anything to do with the beer. I very delicately tried to describe his personality change when he drinks. It’s no use. Denial Denial.

I reminded him that we had this same conversation 6 months ago, 1 year ago, 18 months ago,
2 years ago ect……..19 years ago. Geez, I’m such a fool.

Now he says he wants the MC phone number. Going to make himself an appt. Wants a non-biased MC, not the one I see.
Wants to lay it all on the table and let MC decide who’s fault is what. Two sides to every story he says. What I don’t understand is his issue about who is to blame. What does it matter? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So later I hand him a copy of a few of my boundaries and ask him to read them and please add below some of his own. The man is so shallow. I am serious as heck and he says to me “First one, (his boundary) is you are to have coffee in the a.m. with a see-through nighty on.”?????????

He is in a happy mood now because he thinks he has once again convinced me that I am the selfish one, I deserve the drunken verbal abuse, and I will once again roll over and see things his way. In fact, I have made no attempt to converse with him for 2 weeks other than , “Do you want corn or beans, peas, what with your porkchops?
He said during our discussions today that a few nights ago he had a few beers and when he came home I said something to him to try and start a fight and he just told himself to be calm and not say anything back to me. I have no idea where that came from. I have not attempted one conversation with him for 2 weeks.

So sorry my dear H but I’ll not fall for your bullsh*t again. I am still planning on Plan B asap.

Danneill

I just remembered something my H said to me today during our heated discussions.

He suggested maybe I should have an A and maybe then I could get over my pain of suspecting him. He still denies that he did off course...

But isn't it odd that he would suggest that to me?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just remembered something my H said to me today during our heated discussions.He suggested maybe I should have an A and maybe then I could get over my pain of suspecting him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyone have a comment on the above?