Bump

I am interested in details like all BHs I guess, and your point that yoru H might want to know if there is any act still sacred between you is a moot one. I would kind of like to know that.

Now here is a very honest statement - one reason I have backed off from wanting to know that details is because a large part of my motivation would be to have FWW humiliating herself while she told me the granularity of her betrayal of me that she is alreay so fearfully shamed of she can't cope. To punish her.

BUT !!! I love her and want to help her get over her trauma, why would I do something that I know humiliates her ? YES I KNOW she knowingly humiliated me by having the affair but I don't see how it helps anyone for me to press for details.

Also how am I going to respond :"oh you gave OM oral sex so I'm divorcing you, the recovery I've SWEATED for is over " if I found that was true ?

Maybe when we're both stronger I might want to know more and my FWW can tell me without humiliation. Until then its not a constant issue with me.

<small>[ October 28, 2004, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Bob,

Thank you for treating your wife with love and respect.

WU

Hi WU,

Interesting that you should mention your H's wanting to know "if there is anything sacred left between him and I". I fell into that "trap" several weeks ago while doing a Dr. Phil questionaire with my FWW. I still remember question #11 quite well..."List three statements that your spouse has said to you that they've never said to anyone else." After 32+ years of marriage, you'd think that would be a no brainer! Unfortunately, after 25 years of infidelity, I could only come up with two..."*****'s (our son) dead" and "I want a divorce". Everything else (yes, let your imagination run wild here with the possibilities) had also been said to others!!!

Although hurtful, all the "little details" are better dealt with in a timely manner than allowed to surface continually during recovery. At least that way all the "wounds" begin to heal rather than fresh "wounds" constantly developing which only serve to prolong (and hinder) recovery.

"Sacred stuff"...just another casualty of infidelity.

WU,

Your H, like most of us men, doesn't seem to realize that for a woman to enjoy having sex with a man, she has to make a strong emotional connection FIRST. If such a strong emotional connection was present with your H at this moment, it would be safe to say that you probably be jumping his bones and reaching heights of sexual ecstacy. This is what MUST be conveyed to him in order for him to put the extra-marital sex in its proper context. As has been said in the past, the most important sexual organ is the one found between ones ears.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> WU,

Your H, like most of us men, doesn't seem to realize that for a woman to enjoy having sex with a man, she has to make a strong emotional connection FIRST. If such a strong emotional connection was present with your H at this moment, it would be safe to say that you probably be jumping his bones and reaching heights of sexual ecstacy. This is what MUST be conveyed to him in order for him to put the extra-marital sex in its proper context. As has been said in the past, the most important sexual organ is the one found between ones ears. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EXACTLY TMCM! And I have to think that it is BECAUSE of the improvement of my marriage- that our *BLUSH* sex life is so much better and more exciting right now! STill haven't done the recommended full body rub down, TMCM...I'm going to pull that one out soon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ron53,

25 years of infidelity??? I obviously don't know your story.

I do want things dealt with and revealed in a timely manner, I am so sick of the lies.

And, there is nothing sacred left....so sad..

TMCM,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
If such a strong emotional connection was present with your H at this moment, it would be safe to say that you probably be jumping his bones and reaching heights of sexual ecstacy.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is the key. I remember the love, want and desire I had for him when we were first married. He had everthing then that he wants now. I guess he is now ready to be trained! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

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H's reaction to the A was very violent and threatening, I down played the A to keep things calm, now not sure if details are a good idea or not.
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Hi WU, I saw the above in your post and while I do agree that you should give all of the details I would not do so until your H gives you a safe environment (physically and emotionally) to tell the details of your A.

Until he does that you owe him nothing IMO! He can't expect you to be open and honest of he is going to yell and scream (or worse)... Yes you are respobsible for your mistake (as am I) But you are still a living breathing human being that deserves respect and compassion! He needs to understand his part in your A also.


My wife wanted to know every detail in a blow by blow about 2 weeks after Dday. In return she offered to listen to me completely and reply without anger. When she did this I complied and told ALL! She was very hurt but since that day we have put much of this behind us and have returned to loving one another. Things are going better than they ever have (including as newlyweds).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Waking Up:
<strong> Ron53,

25 years of infidelity??? I obviously don't know your story.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Saga from beginning ...you asked.

<small>[ October 29, 2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Ron53 ]</small>

Sleepless,
That is awesome you could trust your wife for the safe environment and she provided it.

Breif recap of H's reaction:
Removed pistol from closet, grabbed bullets, told me to kiss bullets as he loaded gun, gun held between us during face to face confrontation (don't remember if gun was unloaded at that point), All phones ripped from walls and thrown outside, car disabled, purse and money taken from me...hmmm can't think of anything else right now.
Oh yeah, also told me to blow my own head off. Guess that covers it....

Nope, can't trust H right now....

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BUT !!! I love her and want to help her get over her trauma, why would I do something that I know humiliates her ? YES I KNOW she knowingly humiliated me by having the affair but I don't see how it helps anyone for me to press for details.
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Man Bob, I think your giver has kicked your takers a**!!! With an attitude like this it's no wonder your recovery is going so well!

OH MY GOD WU!!!!! are you sure it's safe for you to be there? NOPE! no details until he changes this behaviour!

Sleepless,
H tried to intimidate me and when he saw he could not, he got angrier. I truly believe God protected my from harm and kept H from doing anything major. Nothing like that has happened since D-Day 2/14/04...
But as I said, a long ways to go before I trust him with my heart.
PS, this is the first time I have posted what happened...doesn't sound good huh?
WU

No, to be honest it doesn't sound good and I am concerned even though it was back in febuary. For my wife the details day was like discovery all over again as far as the pain went. I'm scared that will happen with your H also. Fortunately in my case my wifes imagination was worse than what had really happened. You see, the first thing my wife did on discovery was to call the other woman and talk to her like a friend and ask questions. This woman, in an effort to win me told my wife alot of things that were untrue (ie. WE were in love and wanted to be together but didn't know how to tell her etc) although this woman did tell me she loved me I NEVER returned this gesture and I was always very clear with her that I would NEVER leave my wife and children. So since discovery I have been fighting this demon. I'm not sure if my wife believes me or not and I can't blame her. My point in all of this is that if your reality is WORSE than his imagination who knows what could happen with a temper like that. I suggest when you do give your details (you will have to some day) it be with a counselor present and maybe a night alone for him to calm down. Let him know you need that safe environment to reveal these things. Good Luck. Maybe some more experienced MBer's can chime in here to come up with other ideas to create this safe environment.

I just wanted to point out that as devastating as this betrayal was to WU's H, he DID NOT follow through and shoot anyone. Finding out that your spouse is having an affair is an enormous and life shattering shock. People handle it in very different ways.

When my last H left me for another woman in 1999, the shock was as devastating as when I found out my son was killed 6 months later. I tried to run over my H with a car and I am not a violent person. So please don't underestimate the impact of the life shattering shock that WU's H has received.

And please lets not lose sight of who the real victim is here and start demonizing WU's betrayed H. He is the betrayed party here. Its not fair to destroy his life and then blame him for his strong reaction at having his life destroyed. That is just cruel.

WU, I do believe you owe him the whole, unvarnished truth without reservation. This was about his life too. That is the least you can do to begin to make amends. It really doesn't matter if you think it is useful to him or not, what matters is what he thinks he needs to recover. He is in a much better position to determine exactly what those needs are.

Yes, as I stated he deserves the truth and all of it for that matter. Yes he does have a right to be angry on dday but pulling a gun is OVERBOARD no matter how much someone hurts. Threatening another person with death is inexcuseable PERIOD! And now that dday is long gone and he wants details he must provide her with a safe environment if he expects the truth. I can tell you from a WS perspective that until that envoronment is met the real truth will remain buried in her heart and real recovery will be impossible.

Edited to say: Even if you could make the arguement that the BS had the right to be that angry doesn't make the situation any safer. What if you had run your husband over and killed him?

<small>[ October 28, 2004, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: SleeplessInSF ]</small>

SF, as I pointed out before, her WS did not shoot anyone or harm her. Apparently he can and DID control his shock at probably what was the most grievous betrayal in his life. Making idle threats does not a "violent" person make.

So let's not blow this all out of proportion and brand him as a "violent" person, I don't believe he is. Otherwise very normal, sane people threaten to do horrible things under duress. The difference between them and insane people is that they DON'T FOLLOW THROUGH. And WU's H did not follow through.

<small>[ October 28, 2004, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Melody and Sleepless,
I hear what you both are saying. I know H is the BS here, I'm not trying to be a victim. I know there is alot of work to be done in the marriage. And all disclosures will be done in a safe environment. Just saying that now is not the time...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Waking Up:
<strong> Just saying that now is not the time... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is now not the time? Does he agree that NOW is not the time?