DDay for me was 9/3/04. WW admitted to EM over the last 3 years. I did not find MB until web searching, looking for help to "figure it out". I've been lurking at MB for a couple weeks and love it. I've used so much information found here to try to re-build my marriage, and it seems to have had a unbelievable effect. In fact it is so unbelievable that now I wonder if what I hear from WW is from the heart or what she thinks I need to hear. Any thoughts?

It could be either, just remember actions speak louder then words. Either way it's great that she has stuck around and it trying to work things out. That is something most of us BS's on this site can only wish for. Keep reading and posting. Can you get her to come here?

kloe72
Thanks for the reply. While I'm trying to hold her close, emotionally I think she's at arms length. We go to MC weekly and it has help also. I don't think I'm ready to bring her here, yet. It does seem that we are speeding through the MB processes. On DDay she initiated the no contact agreement and offered to call the OM with me listening. I told her no, she needed to do it without me listening in. We talked for hours that night. But that was not unusual we talk often, about careers, children, our future, etc. She told me DDay that she wanted to make things right between us. Since then her actions lead me to believe what she is saying, but, I believed what she was saying to me while the EA was going on. I would have no way of knowing if she and the OM were still in contact, unless she told me (she said she would). I find the deception hard to overcome.

Words may carry truth or lies.

Actions speak the truth.

Observe her actions and pay little attention to her words, for now.

Best wishes
SD

SD

Thanks for the words of wisdom.

Hurtin, my story is similar to yours. My D-Day was October 1. My wife called the OM that day to initiate NC. Since then, we have made remarkable progress. It's like the scales have fallen off of my eyes...and she has been incredibly loving and open with me.

I also find the deception to be the hardest part of this. And I'm not quite sure I will ever get over that. My wife is bending over backwards to make me feel secure, and that helps. But you're right, there is no abosulte way of knowing whether contact has ended or not.

For me, the only way through this has been to take a leap of faith and stick to what seems to be the right thing to do: talk to her openly about my feelings, and show and tell her constantly how very deeply I love her. I beleive that she has the same commitment to rebuilding this marriage that I do. And I know that she knows that contacting the OM would jeopardize everything. We both know the stakes..and that's what I rely on to get through this.

<small>[ October 27, 2004, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: AndrewA ]</small>

AndrewA
Having an incredibly loving wife is an awsome feeling. Why didn't I realize this was missing and fix it years ago? But I also wish I knew she was being completely honest with me now. When I ask questions about the EA I get alot of "I don't know" or "I don't remember" answers. What is "bending over backwards" to make you feel secure? My WW gave me her voice mail & email passwords (I check them occasionally) and generally lets me know where she's going if it's out of the home/work routine. We now try to spend as much time together as possible. My heart feels like I should take the leap of faith, but my mind says that will hurt.

Thanks

Hurtin..I agree with you. I should have taken care of these issues a long time ago. I THOUGHT I was meeting my wife's needs, and I was. But they were the WRONG needs. Her deepest need is for affection - and more importantly, for me to let her love me. In trying to be the good provider and the respectful, caring spouse..I lost sight of her need for romance.

As to what she has been doing: I have her email passwords and she's now pretty much giving me an hour-to-hour update on her wherabouts. But...she's doing a lot of little things as well. Yesterday, when I got home, for instance, she asked me to come to the computer with her. She showed me a song file that she had downloaded because the OM had told her that it made him think of her.

I never would have found this thing on my own - and even if I had, I never would have linked it to the OM. But...she showed it to me and then deleted it. She said it was important for her to do so. I respected that. It was a small show of honesty that went a long way.

We also got a family-talk cell phone plan. I've never carried a cell phone before, so this is a new experience for me. But...she's been keeping me so busy with "I love you" phone calls...I hardly have time to do anything else.

The leap is a potentially dangerous thing. Yo uare putting yout heart on the line. For me, personally, it's the only way I can live my life. I have listened to her. I understand her needs. And, I believe that if I meet them...she'll find that there is no other man in the world for her.

One other thing: while answers like "I don't know" appear deceptive or elsuive -I have a very hard tiem with them as well - you may want to consider the fact that your wife might actually NOT know the answers. My wife says that there is a lot about her behavior during the A that she doesn't understand.

But..she promised to examine it and to keep talking to me. And..I've promised to examine myself and my behavior as well.

I think that's the way you need to approach this: let her know that YOU are looking for answers in your own heart as well.

<small>[ October 27, 2004, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: AndrewA ]</small>

AndrewA
You probably are, and should be, proud of your wife. MB has me evaluating myself, my marriage, my family and I am working hard to be a better person, husband, and father. My wife told me that she didn't realize that I needed her so much, and when the OM needed someone (because of his failing marriage) she thought she could help him and be his "friend". She now says that she realizes he was using her and she feels stupid for not seeing it for what if was. I know that I will eventually take the leap of faith (hopefully soon) because like you, I can't continue to live my life this way.

Thanks for being here.

Hurt'n and Andrew,

Your wives may be very genuine in their quick turnarounds. Some FWW have long withdrawal periods others don't.

Personally I think this is tied to the amount guilt ie the more guilt they felt during the A the faster they come out of the fog.

I also think that the situation with the OM plays a part. My W's OM made it clear that he wouldn't divorce due to his young children. Knowing that he wasn't waiting at the end of the tunnel may have snapped her back to reality faster than if he moved out his house.

Taking this further the reaction of the OP's S plays apart. Upon discovery if the OM's W had kicked him out, he may have felt differently and may have pursued her. That pursuit could have made her a "fence sitter." Fence sitters have very long withdrawal periods they go back and forth between spouse and OP.

In my case bc of the situation and the reactions of all concerned withdrawal was short.

A few thoughts for you both.

Take care

Mac

Hurtin..again our stories are similar.

My wife's A was with a friend's husband. My wife said she started talking to him about problems in our marriage becuase she whought he was "safe." Of course...he saw the opening he needed and played on her vulnerabilities.

CW..thank you very much for your perspecitve.

I'm pretty confident that the OM is out of our life - though his kids go to school with my kids - because my wife has genuine remorse. She's also told me about two incidences where he tried to contact her, and I think her honesty on that is a good sign. Also, I think the guy understands that I will go into "take no prisoners mode" if he comes anywhere near her again. As it is, I nearly got him fired by calling him at work to complain about stuff he had said about my wife.

I am very proud of my wife, by the way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Andrew
It's hard to believe that different lives can run such a parallel course. In my situation the OM's W does not know. If she did, she would definately put him out. I know this because of the things he told me while he was acting like my friend, while working my W. I work in the same profession as OM's W in a relative small community. Luckily I don't have much contact with her. My fear of the OM's W finding out is that she is a hothead and I honestly would fear for wife's safety. When I asked my W what she thought the OM's W would do if she found out, she thought the OM's W would probably shoot him and her. I suspect that the OM thinks the same about me and this hopefully is keeping him away.

As I've read on another thread in MB, I wish the checking up I'm doing would prove she is being totally honest. I want to believe her so bad. She has initiated conversation about the A when something comes to mind and I told her I appreciate her openness and honesty. But I realize those conversations might be the only "show of honesty", and they're only words.

Since DDay the only contact I know about is the NC call. I find it hard to believe that after 3 years, the A can end on a single phone call.

I do believe that the closeness we are now sharing
is building a strong foundation and I hope my wife also believes that now... there is no other man in the world for her.

CWMac
I think I know what you are saying. On DDay when I told my W to leave (so she could go to the OM) she said that if she was not with me, he would not be her choice. I guess the attachment was minimal making withdrawl easy. So now I'm trying to understand and meet the EN that the OM was filling. thanks

HAH, As has been said, talk is cheap but actions show the truth. If your WW is behaving in a loving and supportive way, then she is probably loving and supportive !

My Own FWW was the most vicious, hateful, spitting thing just 20 weeks ago, and now she is a soft, vulnerable thing trying her best to rejoin fully into our Marriage.

I do not think that 'speeding through recovery' is possible but I DO think that differet people attack different phases of recovery at different speeds and with different needs.

Regarding trust and honestly my FWW has a hard time with the fact that I don't believe her by default any more.

In fact she witholds much of the information I need to hear becaus eshe says I won't believe it and will still think even worse of her.

I can only hope that changes over time and with patience.

Hurtin,

My wife's A was shorter...basically a one-night-stand and then a brief emotional affair. The whole thing lasted about two months.

She made an NC call on D-Day..followed it up with a letter, and says she has NO withdraw at all. What she really wanted, she says, were improvements in our marriage and those are taking place.

I would also be somewhat skeptical about a three-year romance ending in a moment. But...it happens. Sometimes, an event like this shocks people into clarity. they wake up and recognize the stakes. That's certainly the case with me. Perhaps it's the case with your wife, also?

Another interesting point...you said that the OM probably assumes you would shoot him. I'm convinced that is part of the reason that OUR OM has stayed away. I've talked to him twice since D-Day...and the second time, I very nearly got him fired from his job. I've also provided his wife with man, many details that he neglected to tell her. Poor guy, he sent me an email telling me that I was making things difficult for him at home.

So...I think our OM is convinced that I am a psycho who can and will make trouble for him if he resurfaces.

Poor guy, he sent me an email telling me that I was making things difficult for him at home.

So...I think our OM is convinced that I am a psycho who can and will make trouble for him if he resurfaces.

[tourettes syndrome mode]

Poor guy my @ss F'k him ! Infidel, marriagebreaking b@stard ![/tourettes syndrome mode]
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The OM in my sitch fears me too. So he should. Ex european karate champion and he won't answer the door or the phone in case its me. Gets his GF to call me asking me not to destroy him as he's having a hard time. Poor diddums.

I'd hope he never smiled again, except for his lovely GF and son who for some reason want him whole.

Enjoy him fearing you AndrewA. Its as good as a lock on the door keeping him away from reigniting the A. Just don't do anything dumb in real life !

Hi, Hurtin.

Just read your posts. You said you haven't told the OM's W. Is there a reason?

Plan A does include exposing the A to the harsh light of day. IMVHO, the OMW definitely deserves to know the facts. Point her here if she listens. I found this site on my own when I found out about my WH. And have recommended to other poele as well. Helped keep my sanity so far <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Andrew
Yes I do believe that DDay was a wake up call to W. Immediately started saying the right things (NC, work things out, etc.) and acting positively toward rebuilding our marriage. But I consider this all new, 8 weeks from DDAy tomorrow. Like you, I thought I was meeting my Ws EN, but looking back (and with discussions with W) I realize that distance developed between us that started, and grew, when she thought she was "helping" the OM. I wish I would have recognized it then and done something about it.

I've had no contact with the OM but we live in a relatively small community and contact is inevitable. I've put alot of thought into the event and think of him in the same way Pure Bob has so elequently described (thanks Bob). I'm sure it won't be pretty. As much as I want to lash out at the OM, I don't see anything positive resulting from it. But if he doesn't stay away his life gets worse, much worse than than the current lowdown life he is living now.

FightingAlone
This may not sound right but I still feel the need to protect my WW because she is the mother of my children and I love her dearly. If the OM's W found out, she would lash out against my W (and probably rightly so) and I can't find it in me to tell her. Yes she deserves to know, but is it my place to tell her? I believe I am protecting my interest. I feel sorry for her because she is a nice person, she just does not know what she got into marrying such a louse.

Hurtin'
This is a tough question so if it bothers you ignore me.

OK..You atated your wife had an EA for 3years. What leads you to believe that it was only a EA and not also a PA?

Mac

CWMAC
Great question. The only information I had on DDay was a history of cell calls. WW continues to tell me that it was only EA but I have a hard time believing it. WW said the EA "evolved" when the OM needed somone to talk to about his failing marriage. She says they met about a dozen times (over the 3 years) when they would both take off from work early, to be together, but they just drove around talking. I want to believe she is telling me the truth, but I'll never know, unless she tells me otherwise.

I'm receptive to any suggestions. Traditional snooping has not been productive.

While I would like to believe we are speeding through recovery, I realize that the possibility exists that we aren't in recovery at all. Sad thought.

<small>[ October 28, 2004, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: hurtin' at home ]</small>

Hurtin'
I can only tell you my experience and maybe it'll say something.

My W's OM was a "friend" from before we were married from her place of employment (think killer whales in PV).

I first discovered my W's "relationship" thru a very innocent e-mail. Just on that friends would send every so often to keep in touch. I had no idea that they communicated other than maybe once in the past 20 years.

I asked her about it and she told me that she had seen him at a showing of his photography that she had been invited to. She had taken our kids. Innocent enough. I hadn't gone. Mistake.

I asked her if she ever spoke to him. She sais just once in awhile. I checked cell records. You know that seeking feeling when you look at the first cell bill then the next then the next. Then it becomes a matter of skipping back several bill to try and see when it all started. She had thrown away alot of the pages so of course I went on line to our cell provider and got a password to her account using my e-mail. That was an eye opener.

This led to more questions and the accompanying lies.

If I had left it at that she wouldn't have admitted the EA let alone a PA.

A month went by I was very anxious and nervous. One day while she was sick in bed I turned on her cell phone. It flashed a note that she had a voice mail. Who would have left her a V-mail at 7:00am?

I dialed the v-mail box. Guessed her password and bingo, I'm listening to the OM's voice. He's telling her how much he misses her. He gives her an update on his life. He syas he's just got to see her soon. You also said," the sun reflecting off the ocean reminds me of your smile."

From that point onward I knew it was at least an EA. The words told me that. The tone he used told me that at least he was in love with her.

I found MB. I read everything. I made the typical newbie mistakes I tried to "educate" her that she was having an EA with her friend.

Typical responses of "we're just good friends. similar interests blah blah blah."

When she got back from a trip to the Mid East. I had placed a recording device on our home line. She didn't call him bc she knew I was suspicious. He called her within 2 days of her return.

The phone conversation was primarily her telling him about this trip of a lifetime but it also gave me more clues. He was at work so he couldn't say much. I heard my wife tell him," Things can't be the same as before." and "Despite that I'll always want to get together with you because. Well.. when I see you I just melt."

Also talk about me and how suspisious I'd been. She did give me a ton of credit for my Plan A. That made the OM "sad."

They also planned a lunch.

I tried to pretend nothing was wrong so I could hire a PI to follow her during their "lunch"

After all of this I still didn't have proof of an PA. EA absolutely. Was an PA likely? Yes. Could I prove it? No.

You know WW and recently FWWs they'll only admit to something if presented with overwhelming evidence.

I confronted her with the phone call and she finally admitted to an EA. She absolutely denied a PA. Where's the academy award?!

She sends a NC letter although it was softer than what I had suggested. No "you're a special friend" but still "hope you and your wife have a great life."

A year goes by and I pour myself into infidelity books. As I'm reading I learn the following:

-There are such things as "no touch" affairs but they are very rare

-Most women begin an EA with the OM before the PA aspect starts.

-It usually takes about 3 months for a EA to turn physical.

Somewhere in my life experience I came upon the following theory:

Women (especially married ones with alot to lose)won't have sex with a man until there is the emotional connection/ they fall in love.

Conversely Men don't fall in love until they've had sex with a woman. After the sex they can establish the emotional bond.

My mind keeps mulling all of the above info.

My wife loved OM
The OM loved my wife
The affai had gone on for about 10-12 months
They lived close enough (He in LA She in OC)

So what's the deduction that my mind has subconsciously put together? They had sex.

Again I had no proof.

I got even more depressed than previous. Outside stress would cause me get very emotional. Not like the old me.

On two of these emotional occassions I asked W again about the sex.

Finally after 18 months of false recovery, she told me that they hahd had sex on one occassion.

She claims they never had it again because of the guilt they felt (I was thinking you mean the guilt you had. I'm sure OM was anxious for another chance)

Eventhough I asked her to come clean so that we could clear the decks and start recovery I rewarded her by falling into deeper depression. Needed meds. Counseling. etc

Long story I know, but wanted to tell you.

I don't know you're wife at all. Is it possible she ahd an EA for 3 years without sex occurring even once? Yes it's possible. It's plausible. But not very likely.

Have you read "Not Just Friends"? You should.

By the way my wife was a church going person who I'd have thought couldn't possibly have an A. When she'd hear of a Hollywood actor dumping his original wife after an affair with Miss Bimbo she'd rail againdt it.

There is no type here. It can happen to all types.

Take care,

Mac