D-day six months ago.

NC since D-day

FWW had PA for 18 months

Wife appears happy, but mostly treating me like a brother. I feel romantic, but she wants to move on with our lives. I have done a decent job at avoiding love busting and strongly believe I am not causing her any distress. What to do? This is not the woman I had before the affair. I have waited and waited for the fog and withdrawal to go away. FWW denies the latter------- says it is all gone.

Unloved, I wish you well! I have no answers...I am in a similar situation. FWW gives me no affection! This has become a major source of pain for me! Makes plan A extremely difficult.

Just joining thread in hope of better understanding and encouragement!

UNLOVEDMAN--Like I said before you sound a lot like my husband <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> .
Anyways, he has the same complaints you have. He wants me to be more romantic,telling him all the time that I love him. He tells me alot how he feels, how he loves me, that he wants me,,etc,etc. But I just dont feel right yet, I dont think I am in withdrawal either, but, I do feel strange after what happened. I feel like I dont deserve all the attention yet. He gets really angry with me, and gives me lots of love busters that are not good, but he cannot help himself, he says. Our DD was 6-1-04, almost five months ago. I feel like I dont have too much to offer him now, but if he is a bit more patient with me,things will get better. He makes me feel really guilty all the time,about not trying as hard as he wants me to.
Just be patient with your wife. BE loving, but not so pushy. Try to maintain the cool, and dont lose it, if things dont go your way. Eventually everything will get better. Just give her time!
The important thing is that she already broke contact with the OM and she is home with you. Thats big progress!!!
Good Luck UNLOVEDMAN

MYRTA

Myrta, how do you do it? I mean, how do you stay convinced that you'll begin to feel it? How do you have the patience? What keeps you from thinking, I'm not feeling it, this isn't going to work, and giving up?

GC

GC- How can I give up all my life!!! I have been with my husband since I was 13 years old! Now I am 49, thats a lifetime together. I love him, he was my one and only forever, till I did that stupidity. I love my husband, I just want to feel more deserving of his love. I want him to look at me with nothing dark going thru his mind. I want him to just love me, and REALLY put everything behind us!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Myrta

This will probably come across wrong... but, if you think just denying yourself from OM, and being home is a sacrifice... well, if your husband isn't love busting, it's not. you are simply doing what is expected of a wife. Most likely, your husband has gone 'without' for quite some time, and he does have needs. If you are not trying to engage with him physically yet, then you are doing just as much now to wreck your marriage as when you were in the affair.

A man needs sex. It identifies who he is, internally, for alot of us. But it's not just the sex, it's the flirtatious advances throughout the day...it builds us up. If you are just going to bed and waiting for him to initiate, well, he will become fed up. To me, I see this as you taking, and not giving. You may feel that you are giving up this noble thing, but, by waiting for him to advance the idea of sex, you are actually taking...he is giving. He is the one making himself vulnerable to rejection by having to initiate. He's the one making you feel desired, not the other way around. It's a fine balance, that couples just have to feel out, how much does each party need to initiate...at some point, you reach a equilibrium where the flirtation is enough during the day, that you both have developed desire for the other by night time, and you both are getting and giving.

I know that for fww to re-engage physically with their husband is difficult. I don't think it is easier in any situation...except maybe following a successful plan b...where the wife has chosen husband over the OM. However, I also believe that once you re-engage, the desire for your husband can come back more quickly.

I think you will see the frustration level of some of the BH's in this board at a high level right now...men that it would sound like alot of wives would like to have, men trying to connect emotionally with their wives, and yet physically as well. How long do you think these 'emotionally hungry' men will be on the sidelines?

Just being in the house isn't a sacrifice...if you feel it is, perhaps you should look again at why you are in the marriage? No matter what reason you had, you chose to be there. Your husband deserves a wife that is trying with all she has to love him, and well, honestly, that means submitting to him in the bedroom as well. One a side bar, how many times do you ask him how you look in that dress, or if you look fat, or whatever... how often do you think the answer might really be, well, you don't look like you did 10 years ago... but, he still tells you "you look great". (I understand, he sure ain't like he was 10 years ago either, but men tend to not ask how they look in a tight pair of pants.)

ROOKKEV- I dont consider me staying with myhusband a sacrifice. I want to be here with him. I love him, but I dont feel like having sex 24-7!!! Right now, thats what he wants from me. I understand that he needs that more than ever now from me. I dont deny any of his advances when he wants to do it and I do initiate some times too, not as often as he wants me to.
There were many times in the past that I would want and he wouldn't, when we were younger. I would get angry at him, because he did not want to do it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But after the affair, I feel too dirty for him, I feel unworthy of his love and desire for me. I want those feelings to leave me so I can be more relax with him and enjoy oour sexual life to the fullest!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RookKev:
<strong>
Just being in the house isn't a sacrifice...if you feel it is, perhaps you should look again at why you are in the marriage? No matter what reason you had, you chose to be there. Your husband deserves a wife that is trying with all she has to love him </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Someone please send this thread to my W, of course she wont join our community because *Thats your place! I think the real reason she won't join is because she doesn't want to feel any worse than she already feels, but to take it a step further...she also doesn't want to get off her butt and do much about it...she'd rather TIME fix all of the devestation that her A caused.

My W makes me feel as if when she does give into my advances that she did it out of obligation instead of desire.....how long can I possibly be made to feel this way? I am an accident waiting to happen. NO ONE wants to feel second rate, like a chore etc...I'm exaggereating slightly, but the truth is she never initiates which only exasperates me more about her A sending my imagination spiraling and I'm not thinking very nice thoughts either.

I feel your pain U-MAN!

Gentlemen and Myrta,

I think it might help you to read SKM'sChronicles .

She was here years ago but she chronicled her feelings as a FWW during her recovery. Pay particular attention to the time line and I think you will see that you are NOT behind the curve.

I will tell you that she and her H are very happily married and have an almost 2 year old child now. She is a very nice lady and her H is a very nice guy. They made it, but check out the time line and I think you will see some commonality in your situations.

God Bless,

JL

JUSTLEARNING <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
THANK YOU for directing me to SKM's chronicles, it was very informative to read. To see that I am not so off in the recovery of myself and my marriage. I think things are getting better,but my husband would like me to be 100% my old self again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Let me take this opportunity again to thank you for so graciously accepting the apology for my rudeness to you before. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I miss your posts to me, even if they were not well taken. You are a very nice person and everybody here is very lucky to have your advise!

Sincerely.
MYRTA

Myrta,

Thank you for your kind words. Your H would like you to be 100% NOW, because he is NOT 100% himself and he needs your help. Keep working on it, and work on trusting him with your feelings.

I was posting to someone else to day about trust. He was worried that he did NOT trust his W who had an affair. I point out to him what trust was, but then point out, that if he knew his W always lied, then he could trust her, because he would always know that anything she said was a lie.

The point is that trust is not exactly what he was after. Yes, he wanted honesty, but what he needed besides trust was what one of Harley's four rules states. He needed PROTECTION. Think about that for a moment. He thought he wanted trust and he did, but not just trust with respect to words or even actions, what he really wanted was PROTECTION.

I mention this to you, because I believe what Stanley is seeking is to feel "safe" with you. He is not sure he is. Does this make sense to you?

I would strongly urge you two to read Harley's four rules for marriage and consider the rule of Protection carefully. I suspect you don't feel he needs protect after he is smart, he is a big boy he can take care of himself, but there is more there Myrta and he has always felt you protected him as he tried to protect you.

Just some thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

JL-yes, I do know what you mean. We both need to feel protected by each other, and we dont yet! But we are working on it.
I bought Dr.Harley's book and I have been reading it. Its kind of repetitive, but I guess he wants to make sure we get his point! I am like half way in the book. Everytime I am waiting for my daughter in the carpool line I read it.
Yes, my husband is a big boy, but I see him very fragile and needs me very much. I see that very clearly. It breaks my heart to see him suffer because of my wrongdoing. I dont know if I can ever make it up to him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Thank you again for your help since I started to post here. I really,really value your input and
knowledge in the matter.
Take Care <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Myrta

Myrta,

That is the point, in one way you can NEVER make it up to him, but you can protect him and I think once he understands that, you won't have to make it up to him. Do you see that? It is a subtle thing, but you cannot undo what has been done, but you can provide what he needs now and in the future.

As the fellow I was posting to, often the BS does NOT know what they need or want in clear concise words, but they know they feeling they are looking for and it is not so much contrition on the part of the WS as comfort with the WS.

I agree Dr. H does seem to repeat himself in the books, but like you I suspect it is to keep saying the same thing in different circumstances so that it resonates with more people. The books are not hard to read that is for sure. Of course, they don't have to be.

In any event, keep reading and good luck.

God Bless,

JL

UM, I posted this reply in my 'returning love for BS' thread, but more approrpiate here:

UM I am sad you find yourself in that situation

I congratulate you with all my heart for having a lovely wife and the know how on how to save your marriage. Your words are an inspiration to me, but I am becoming frustrated despite following MB policy with WW. I am growing inpatient and WW can’t tell something is seriously wrong. She thinks everything is fine and dandy.

Yes I do have a lovely wife , who until very recently was the most spiteful, vicious, spitting thing to me and our kids imaginable. WS behave in alien ways while the effects of an affair, exposure and withdrawal work though them.

Regarding know-how you will see if you look at some of my first posts from way back in July that I was a shaking, vomiting , drunken helpless wreck who drove too drunk to even commit suicide properly. I am proof that ANYONE, however stupid and low, can be sured up by God to be what his family needs in crisis. Even ME.

I will not 'advise' UM other than give examples of what i know occurred in my own situation. There are wiser heads on here who can advise you reliably. What I WILL say is that six months is a short time to expect a full recovery of a marriage broken by an affair.

Also, I would be interested to know if you and your W are working on identifying and fulfilling each others emotional needs. It would appear not, but I have only seen your few words regarding you story.
Finally, neither BS nor WS are usually mindreaders ! "waiting to be asked or told" seems to be a huge contributor to a M at risk from an affair. It seems you are not communicating well with each other.

All blessings UM, you are in a place that can help you recover your marriage happiness !

JL- Thats so true, I truly dont know what to do to make my husband feel better. He tells me that what he wants from me, is to show him all the time that I love him and care for him. But I know thats not enough. There has to be more to his feeling better. Yes, he feels better if I show him, but is a temporary thing. I will have to be in some state of "frenesi" 24-7 to make him feel good all the time. And no one can be like that all the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
JL-Do BS really,really forgive affairs? Can it really be put behind us and take it as a way to make the marriage better? Or is there always going to be that seed of unhappiness within BS?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Take Care!

MYRTA

Thanks to all! The chronicles were helpful and I wonder if my wife is still talking to her OM. I am not sure, how to approach her as I don’t want to throw LB her way. Any suggestions? She seems too satisfied for my taste, albeit our doctor said that the medication for depression can do just that. I will keep you posted! Thanks again!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, he feels better if I show him, but is a temporary thing. I will have to be in some state of "frenesi" 24-7 to make him feel good all the time. And no one can be like that all the time.
JL-Do BS really,really forgive affairs? Can it really be put behind us and take it as a way to make the marriage better? Or is there always going to be that seed of unhappiness within BS?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I fee like a yo-yo-------- up and down. Affection works great for me----- any distance brings me back to sadness. The good news is that the sadness is LESS and LESS everyday. I hate the ups and downs and I feel I disappoint Myrta when I go down again. I have told her many times that I am cured and then I disappoint her with a recurrence of symptoms. BTW, affection does not mean sex 24/7--- it means to be close and to spend those 15-20- hours a week together. Conversation does not mean gruesome details of the affair at this stage-- who cares. Conversation means to open the heart.

I have forgiven Myrta many times and I will keep doing that till it works!

<small>[ October 28, 2004, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Myrta,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JL- Thats so true, I truly dont know what to do to make my husband feel better. He tells me that what he wants from me, is to show him all the time that I love him and care for him. But I know thats not enough. There has to be more to his feeling better. Yes, he feels better if I show him, but is a temporary thing. I will have to be in some state of "frenesi" 24-7 to make him feel good all the time. And no one can be like that all the time. [Confused]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, I don't think you do. I think you can make him feel better by using the four rules. Do you remember how I questioned what you were saying in earlier posts? I was doing it for a reason. I wanted you to change your perspective. Here is precisely where it needs to change.

I get the impression that you think:

1. Good sex will heal this. I surely won't hurt <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , but Myrta he needs something else.

2. You think showing him your care about him 24/7 will work and heal this. Again showing him care is a very good thing, with or without recovery. But, Myrta he needs something else.

Myrta, I was on you for some of the things you said because you did NOT see that they could hurt you, your marriage, and your H. By the same token, I am on you now, because you don't see why and how you are so important to your H, his life, his happiness. You think you need to do the two items listed ALL of the time to "make up for this". I am sure he loves them but your perspective is not right yet.

Look back at how your H has always interacted with you. Look now at what he wants from you. You don't really see it do you? Here in my opinion is what you are missing.

He wants YOU in his life. Yup, that simple.

He wants YOU to be happy in his life.

He wants YOU to lean on when things are NOT going well.

He wants YOU to love him and OH <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> yeah he does like the sex.

He wants YOU to relax and NOT be so defensive because he wants to be COMFORTABLE with you.

He wants YOU to be his friend.

He enjoys you in the role of Mother to his children.

He wants you to be comfortable in your own skin so that he can be comfortable with you.

Myrta the list goes on and on, but did you notice something??? IN all of this he WANTS YOU. All he seeks to know is who you are NOW. This NOT about making up, or changing yourself. It is about YOU finally seeing your FULL role in his life. You have limited your perspective and defended this, but Myrta, he sees more than you think and he thinks there is more. HE is right.

Since I am on a roll here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> let me take this a bit further.

You may think that the A was your big mistake. I think the A was the result of your big mistake. Your thinking about yourself and your H set you up for this. You did not see nor appreciate HOW LARGE A ROLE you played in your H's life. I think it was because in your perspective you defined yourself too narrowly. Worse you protected this definition of yourself. Thus, via DJ's you allowed yourself to seek fulfillment elsewhere. Yet, clearly you were and are MORE.

Your H is looking for you to realize how powerful, how important, and how much you play a role in his life. He is waiting for you to heal enough to look up and quietly take his hand and go with him.

Will, you have down times? Yes. Will he? Yes. But Myrta you will heal from this and so will he. The only issue is will your marriage be better. I think it must be. Why? You need to see how important you are to him. You need to change your perspective. I believe when that happens your will NOT feel the need to defend and you will see him reacting to you in completely new ways. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JL-Do BS really,really forgive affairs? Can it really be put behind us and take it as a way to make the marriage better? Or is there always going to be that seed of unhappiness within BS? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, what I have seen here and have seen in my life, is that like any cut there will be scar tissue. But, the wound will not be open, there will be no infection, and your marriage can be fully functional and yes better. I think I discussed this earlier.

Myrta, I firmly believe that as your perspective changes, you will see the enormous influence you have on your H's life. When you see that you will see how you failed to protect him, your marriage and yourself, and you will know how to do so in the future.

I will repeat you have defined yourself too narrowly, and thus you feel the need to defend. You are far more than you think and as you realize this, the comments by STanley that he would like to see you open up will make more sense to you. It is like you are a flower after a cold night (your childhood possibly) and he is waiting for the warmth of the day to open up the beautiful petals.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

JL==I think my perspective is changing a lot lately and I see things so much clear now. But I should admit to you, that I am not completely relax or comfortable yet. I still dont like how I feel under my skin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . I get disgusted and I dont like to look at myself and think what I did to mess my life the way I did. I know it was MY mistake, I was the one that I did this to my husband. And because of that, now I am paying big time for that. Because of ME, my husband suffers, because of ME, my marriage is in trouble, because of ME, I feel very unhappy and cannot make him completely happy.
But 1-I am in his life
2- I am happy that he is with me
3- I do love him
4- He is my husband and my friend too
5- I have always lean on him when things
dont go well
6- I am the mother of his children, and I
adore that role!!
JL. I know things will get better with time.
Those chronicles that you told me to read, said so! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We just need patience with each other.
And yeah GOOD SEX! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Today he is very happy and relax <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I never realized until now, how important I was for him. He used to tell me, that I was the most important thing in his life, that I was the center of his life, but I did not believe him. I thought he was just talking without meaning it. But now, after I see all his suffering for ME, I see he meant it big time. I guess I was underestimating myself with him. I took myself for granted and fell in my foggy stupidity. I should have realized that if he had stayed with me all these years was because I was so important in his life. Because he truly loves me with all his heart.
But JL, I know a lot of good is coming out of all this mess. We both know how we stand in each others lives, he has re-discovered his sexuality at 54 years old! He has lost weight and looks younger than ever. And most important of all
we have freshen up our love and desires 31 years into our marriage.
I know eventually we are going to be completely happy, relax, in love and trusting each other again. But I know now is too soon, to feel all that, at the same time.
Last night I gave myself completely to him, in body and spirit and he felt it for the first time since DD. So I think we are in a good route for sure now. I am his wife, his woman, and he is my husband, my lover!

Myrta

Myrta,

Yes you are changing your perspective. Do me a favor, ask Stanley which way you are the most attractive to him, when you are punishing yourself, or when you are smiling at him? I doubt he wants to punish you or see you punish yourself. What he wants is for you to learn and he to learn. You are learning...you are learning that what he told you was the truth. Relax, enjoy that knowledge, wrap yourself in that knowledge, and enjoy being with him. If you start to do this you will heal faster and so will he.

I am not sure I have given you me lecture on guilt/remorse. IN case I have not here it is. Guilt is a feeling that is supposed to prevent you from doing something wrong, or stop it if you are. Remorse is what you feel AFTER you stop doing something wrong. It is telling you do your best and never make that mistake again.

You really need to understand the difference. It is too late to feel guilty and worse guilt tends to paralyze one. It is after all a feeling meant to STOP something. So you feeling guilty is NOT a good thing for anyone.

Now remorse leads to actions, corrective actions. It does not paralyze one, it guides one. I would like you to focus on feeling remorse NOT guilt. It will help you in the long run because it will allow you to bloom as you are capable of.

Think about that.

God Bless,

JL