First do no harm

~~~~~~~ What is bugging you today?

Pep

I don't know pep, but I am getting a lot of heat lately for my *opinions*. I am obviosuly coming off and pssing a lot of people off. I think I am probably gonna stop posting on these boards, I have a really tough time with *opinions* being censored. This is a great board nonetheless and I will still lurk. Take care and have a nice day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lemonman - Please don't quit posting. I missed what you posted, as it was censored. It is fine to give your opinion, but it should be delivered in a calm and caring way.

I think you may still be very much hurt by the actions of your wife. It comes across in your postings. But don't worry, you will start feeling better after awhile. I promise you that.

I too, have gotten very cynical. But as your life gets better, that will wane. So stick with us.

LEMONMAN--Please, keep on posting. Of course some people are not going to like what you post, but those are your oppinions.
A lot of people here dont like me ,, including Sgt.Pepper, but that has not stopped me from posting. Everybody can say what they want. You cannot please all of the people at the same time!!
For everyone to like you, you have to agree with whatever the "experts" here say.
You have to vent your frustrations somehow, and this is a good place to do it.
My husband likes posting to you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> and a lot of other people do too.
So, please, KEEP ON POSTING!

MYRTA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

lemonman,

I haven't read all of your posts but enought to get a "sense" of where you are in your own WW situation. I find you to be cogent, concise, and not afraid to ask hard questions or take unpopular positions. That is what I thought this board was all about.

I too, dislike the "doormat" position that a lot of posters take. I think that is partly due to our training, keeping anecdotal ideas from passing as "double blind " truth. There are other posters that also take a hard line postion eg keepmvn4wrd, and they also have drifted away.

I truly hope you stay and I pray for success in your personal situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong>
I think you may still be very much hurt by the actions of your wife. It comes across in your postings. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was going to write this in one of my postings to LM, but my H wouldn't let me!

Lemonman has every right to still be hurt by his wife. Please keep posting. TT

Lemonman - Cymanca is a surgeon too. I forgot him on my list of the docs here. He is going through the same thing you are. Please keep posting. We are starting to get used to you.

Lemonman- we have (obviously) had our differences. I think varying viewpoints are good.
As you pointed out to me, we don't want a community of Stepford wives....just try not to be so *strong* in attacking others having a difficult time- most particularly on the OC board.

"A lot of people here dont like me ,, including Sgt.Pepper"

Shame on you Myrta for posting a lie.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> I don't know pep, but I am getting a lot of heat lately for my *opinions*. I am obviosuly coming off and pssing a lot of people off. I think I am probably gonna stop posting on these boards, I have a really tough time with *opinions* being censored. This is a great board nonetheless and I will still lurk. Take care and have a nice day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just want to know if YOU are OK???

You seem so very, I donno, particularly wound up today. The preg board is REALLY struggling with trying to make itself back into a safe place... and your timing was lousy.

If you want to email me let me know pepperband_mb@excite.com

My feeling are not easily hurt. I am not in crisis. I have no ax to grind. Let me know if I can help you.

Pep

Please keep posting, I'm sorry I thought you were an OW. No offence-I've been burned before.

PEPPERBAND!! Oh, I was referring to Sgt.Pepper not Pepperband! I know you like me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Myrta

Thank you all for your concern. I really mean this. I reviewed my posts and perhaps I was too strong in giving an opinion on the OC board, BUt I still don't think that I needed to be censored. This is a board that is not public per se and I will respect the moderators right to censor what they feel is not appropiate (although I strongly disagree with this). I like posting on this board but it seems like I am making more enemies than friends and just making people's situatios worse. I haven't figured out a way to be "supportive" when I feel a person is making such a huge mistake in letting themslevs be $hit on, accepting false recoveries, being treated as second class, etc... I know that the "company line" is that this is necessary to go through to get the "Ws back" and in "recovery". I guess since I so strongly disagree with this premise that maybe I don't belong here. This is obviously an issue that I need to get a hold of. I guess my "discord" with a lot of these MB principles gets the better of me sometimes. In my heart of hearts I don't want to hurt people more with my postings, I really don't. But, I also truly think a dissenitng opinion can be good, particularly when this board is almost "stepford" in it's blind faith of these principles (I don't want to use the word "cult"). I think I am probably guilty of transferring alot of anger (that I thought that I got rid of) regarding my WW to posters on here. I think while at times this board has been very therapeutic for me, it has also caused me alot of confusion. There is so much pain on these boards and given my personality (TYPE A + in terms of aggressiveness, etc..) I sometimes can't stand to see spouses being so destroyed. I just want to "fix it", hence why I went into surgery. I have so little respect RIGHT now for Wayward spouses that I guess I can't be objective. This is not fair as people make mistakes and I know that I can't/shouldn't judge them. Lord knows that I have made enough mistakes in my life for 10 people...A fact that I freely admit. There was something that the poster stated in the OC board/thread that I guess just set me off and I am actually still upset by how this all went down (I know enough of the whining). Anyways, it is not my "style" to fall "in line" and just agree with eveybody and go with the company line. I feel strongly that I have to question people's motives on here and really question what they are doing in thier actions with "saving the marriage". As Cymanaca stated, as Physicinas, we are taught to question everything. We are taught to question the experts, to ask WHY, for everything. It is actually this thinking that has me in the precarous situation I am in on these boards. For the sake of the suffering posters who "need support" I will tone down my opinions and try and not offer too strong a post as to not offend anybody. This is probably going to limit what I can contribute to the discussions, but I don't know what else to do. In a million years I would have never believed somebody like me woudl ever be spending time on a message board like this. Anyine who really knows me, would agree. Finding solace on these boards is the last thing I could have expected. Thanks for hearing me out.

Lemmonman,

When I came here I felt somewhat like you do, still do really. I came here as the OW and expected to getted blasted, but I needed so desperately to understand what people have who fight for their marriages have. What people who stick around in face of ridiculous odds of their spouses ever coming back have inside them that keeps them fighting. I needed desperately to know what it was that kept them hanging on, because I had always simply moved on when it didn't work out, and I knew that that was no longer the answer for me.

This is the first board I had ever been on, or even read for that matter. I have found nothing but warmth and a true desire from others to help. Even me, a former OW who has never been married but who loves the idea of leaving a legacy of loyalty, of integrity, of hanging on against all odds, that I am here to understand what these people have that I don't have.

"Seek to understand that which you would become"

I too get very, very disgusted at times. The people here are so beautiful, with so many desirable qualities I want to SCREAM at them, don't you know what you have to offer, what you are -- move on, your true love is just waiting for you. But then I realize, that is not what it is about, it is about vows, about commitment, about "for better, for worse" and I am humbled by their "doormatness", because they are acting in their beliefs. And it is about supporting each other, when the rest of the community thinks they are nuts for hanging on. And for supporting each other when the worse comes to be. This is a place of love, and you are needed here Lemonman, as much as you need to be here right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But I still like Plan B, and wish more people would go to it sooner.

weaver

<small>[ October 27, 2004, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

Lemonman, hello, and nice to meet you. I read your very first post to HINY over on Recovery the other day. I sensed what I also thought was residual anger toward your WW in the way you posted to HINY on her thread regarding finding stuff OW gave her FWH at her home.

I don't think you should stop posting. NOT recovering a M is always a viable option. Many times, after Plan A'ing, and the WS finally coming home, many of us BS are thinking, "WTH have I done? Do I want to live with this person that I don't even recognize anymore?"

Each person has to make that decision for themselves, and if no dissenting opinion is made, well . . . people are sheep. To some extent, hope I don't get blasted out of the water for saying that, they are. That's what they taught us in my EMT class.

Anyway, I didn't read the post you all are talking about, because I don't read on that Board. Some people come to the boards in a very very fragile state. Very easily, right or wrong, the scales can be tipped. If you hang out here long enough, you unfortunately might see the results of that happen. I believe that is what Pep meant with "First, do no harm." And that you are a doc, of course.

I think you developing a way to be the dissenting opinion here, without compromising your space, or the space of others, is a tremendous learning opportunity for you! Don't run from what you don't understand. Just because you don't know how right now, doesn't mean you aren't going to figure it out.

Mostly, what these boards are for me, is PERSONAL recovery. That in turn helps my M recover. We all want Lemonman to be the very bestest Lemonman EVER!

BTW, whenever I read your name, I get a craving for Lemonheads. Are you related to HIM? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hang in there!

Spidey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> I feel strongly that I have to question people's motives on here and really question what they are doing in thier actions with "saving the marriage". As Cymanaca stated, as Physicinas, we are taught to question everything. We are taught to question the experts, to ask WHY, for everything. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lemonman- all good stuff. Let me just say this though- you can question & ask why and really make people *hear* your message- or you can do the same thing in such a manner that all people hear is your anger & judgement (ok, I got in trouble for that one before- but that is what I think.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I too am in a profession that constantly asks *why* - and litigates it..lol! I can understand your frustration. I guess coming from the opposite side of the fence from you, however, my perspective is a little different.

I hope you stick around- and heal- and grow- as we all are here.

Lemonman -

To be honest, you irritated the H -E-double hockey sticks out of me when I first read your posts. Sorry. But you did. That was a gut reaction. I'm sure people have felt the same about me too. Not everyone's style is compatible.

Yet, as I have read and reread your posts and really looked at what you are saying, I have to say you're viewpoint is very needed here. The dissenting view is needed. The person who makes you stop and think...needed. Not that you are always right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And you can be abrasive in your sarcasm. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But you know that.

I have personally taken things you have said too much to heart. But I believe it is out of sincere concern and desire to see people happy that you say what you do. There is no malice.

Nothing you say is different than what the majority of the population thinks anyway. I've had close personal friends ask me how I can possibly respect myself for the decisions I have made.

You have helped me to look deeper into my own motivations. I think you bring a valuable viewpoint to this board. I would be sad to see you not posting here.

I also agree that being here is going to help YOU, Lemonman. There do seem to be unresolved issues with your WW.

Wouldn't it be nice to get to the point where you can look at someone else in the situation and not have to have those same feelings brought to the surface for you?

In being with others who are hurting and struggling, you may very well find your own healing.

I hope you decide to remain active here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

lemonman -

When I first came to this board, I was like you. In fact I read here for 3 months, and thought what a bunch of idiots. I could not believe how much crap these folks put up with. However, I started seeing how many marriages were saved here.

I think you are right in the fact that you want to "fix" things. And what is wrong with that?

Only the fact that some things are not "fixable".

Folks here can stick with the MB program. It works for many, many people. But sometimes it does not work. But if you go through the whole program, and things don't work out, you will be a better person.

I have now been going through this for 22 months. My husband is still with the OW. But I have moved on and am doing just fine.

Lemonman - I really hope that you will get there too. I think you will. Hugs to you from California.

Mr. Lemon,
I agree with everyone here, including yourself...I don't think you should have been deleted.

I can see and read many of the same back and forth...thousands of times..but that person..or persons...never get locked down...shut out..and I don't think ANYONE SHOULD...and I'd challenge any moderator to point out WHY they think any post that is frozen OR deleted...does NOT meet MB standards.

And I mean specifically...because this is A PUBLIC FORUM.

It would be sad to have adverse opinions continously frozen or deleted.....how do we grow as people...if challenge opinions aren't at least allowed to BE ??????

I'm all for being gentle when someone is hurting...but does the world really shelter us from anything that will hurt us ?

Most of us here...are or have experienced infidelity.....how on GOD'S GREEN EARTH...are a few typed words in cyberspace going to hurt more than that ?


Just me...piping in... prepared to be frozen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />