Welp, it finally came out.
No more charade.
No more bullcrap.
No more I'm worried about your feelings.
It finally happened, W admitted why it's like pulling teeth to get laid by my own W.

She can't do that type of stuff with me!

I always knew it, but never wanted to admit it. Why does a 31 year old woman date a 21 year old man who lives with his mama without a real job, transportation or a bank account? Hint: It aint for the medical insurance. OM treated W like a hoe, *ouch that was crass! FM watch your tone! No seriously though, OM allowed her to be a hoe. Is that better? Not really, but please continue.
Surely this cannot be so, my W bagged and slam dunked by a punk who couldn't hold my jock strap. You mean to tell me this kid was doing my W? You mean to tell me my W neglected her role as a parent leaving my D unattended all hours of the night so she could hang out with and get screwed by a kid? You cannot be serious! Do you mean to suggest that when W asked me to leave the Townhome in the upper middleclass neighborhood, back when she was unemployed and had ran through her Pension Lump Sum of $25K+ that she did that because she wanted to spend more time with her secret friend? Do you mean to tell me that to this very day the reason your W isn't giving you real SF is because she misses being treated like crap by a guy she could chase, she misses having to beg for his attention, she misses getting sexed up in the back of her car, or being called in the middle of the night to drop off money so OM could get to his $10hr job??? Do you mean this? You cant mean this? You and your W may actually get divorced because your W can't let go of a man who strictly wanted her as a screw thing and he had nothing else to offer besides laughs, a harder younger body and a few joints of marijuana????

Yes, guilty as charged on all counts!!!!!!

Okay, Feel better now?
Kinda
Do you have it all out now?
Sorta
Are you sure you don't want to run around the DC Govt. building screaming your lungs out? I'm sure you won't be the first, I mean this is DC...
No, I think I'm feeling much better now. At least it's all on the table now, right?
I suppose.
Yup........................I suppose.

So now what do I do.
My W can't be wild and crazy and sexy and spontaneous with me, but she can be that way with OM. I'm just the lucky sap who gets to provide for her, raise the kids, try my damndest to corral our hormonely insane teenage D, I'm just the one who has to put us in a Single Family Home and provide for our childrens education, buy the grocerries, cook the dinners, make the Christmas, the birthdays, keep the bills up on the $30K SUV with the cool fog lights...yup I'm the sap who gets to be the HUSBAND, so I can't get my W in the thong or the lacey Victoria Secrets or the Fredericks of Hollywood custome sexual accessory apparatuses. I cant get the sexy, spontaneous, bad girl side of my W...WHY? Silly man, because that side of your W is dedicated to OM. To get that otherside you must not care about your W, you must have that take it or leave it attitude, you must be like OM who doesn't want any responsibility whatsoever, just to be her friend at his convenience and then poof be gone.

What do I do now?
My W thinks we cannot recover!
I think this is what was needed, THE TRUTH!
A promiscuous man who doesn't use condomes and sleeps with whores and heroine addicts does not die from the doctors test which reveals the promiscuous man has contracted the AIDS virus, the promiscuous man dies from his promiscuity, the doctor is merely relaying the truth. And I would much rather know the truth so that I might began to make my arrangements. You know say my goodbyes, I dont know...climb a mountain, swim butt naked in the English Channel, push my 6 grade English Teacher down a flight of stairs for being the bigot that he was!!!!! Do not take away my truths, do not keep all the power to yourself, allow me to share in the power of information and the power of knowing who I am sleeping with and planning to share a life with...thank you very much.

So after all of this ranting and venting I am still left with the big question.

Can a H somehow develop an electric, spontaneous, crazy relationship with his W?
Can A FWW be set free within her M to be the person she was allowed to be with OM and can we accomplish all of this while maintaining a sense of respect for one another?

I don't want my W to be my Sexy Goddess if it means she can no longer be my W. I need both! And I'm hoping she wants me to be both the Smooth Talking, Sexual Hunk of Hot Chocolate and also have enough quarters to rub together to take her to romantic places, feed the children and retire someday somewhere nice. I mean if she just wanted a Sexy Beast then she wouldn't be home with me would she?

Help is there anyone out there who can relate?
Is there anyone out there who has pointed out the 1200 Pound Elephant and successfully lead his [censored] out of their bedroom?

Inquiring Minds Want To Know...

I Need To Know....

FM, thats sounds a shockingly shallow admission by your WW. Are you sure its not just an excuse to get you off her case?

If its TRUE and your WW can only do the do with inexperienced young men she doesn't love she has a serious SERIOUS self esteem problem IMO and needs help.

Bad news FM, I feel for you. Its absolutely posisble to rediscover a passionate sexual relationship with a FWW but not if she has issues as big as your WW seems to be admitting.

Has she said WHY she can't SF with you ? Ar eyou SSUMING its the "young, dumb and full o' cum" part she's missing or is it guilt & stuff ?

Its all bad though mate, I feel for you.

{{{{FM}}}}

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FamilyMatters:
<strong> What do I do now?
My W thinks we cannot recover!
Can a H somehow develop an electric, spontaneous, crazy relationship with his W?
Can A FWW be set free within her M to be the person she was allowed to be with OM and can we accomplish all of this while maintaining a sense of respect for one another?

Inquiring Minds Want To Know...

I Need To Know.... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes and yes...

H and I have NEVER had spectacular "marital relations" even when we were first dating- and for a LONG time after my A's I was completely uninterested. The last few months as I have made a big effort to turn our marriage around I find myself eager (blush) and have been umm... a lot more *daring* in that side of our relationship then I ever have before. I really do think it is possible to *create* this chemistry. I know Dr. Harley talks about the *in love* feelings coming once your emotional needs are being met regularly-and I think that is true not only in a *romantic* way but also in a sexual way.

I'll bow out now b/c my face is on fire! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> Has she said WHY she can't SF with you ? Ar eyou SSUMING its the "young, dumb and full o' cum" part she's missing or is it guilt & stuff ?

{{{{FM}}}} </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bob,
I think it's a mixture of it all and albeit her revelation was painful, it was only a shock to the part of me that was still clinging to the BS Fog! I mean what else could it have been between them? For so many of us BH's the OM isnot in the same league with us in so many areas it must be the *GREAT WAY our W's felt while with OM right? That doesn't necessarily mean he was better in bed either, it just means how the WW felt was exciting while with OM and their R was different than ours...

and you're right its all tough stuff regardless....*sigh

FM- her rationalle of what she's done. It is, sadly, the only way she can currently live with her guilt, isn't it? She's got to have a reason to give herself for why she did so many stupid things, hurtful things, hateful things, thoughtless things, doesn't she? And helps her to rationlize why she's not make any true effort towards you.

FM, it's babble. Doesn't make it less hurtful, tho, does it?

Sadly, I wish I had a fix, but I'm in the same boat as you, still, I think, altho I have had an apology and alot of words that he's truly committed to us. What is most troubling - and I have told him as much - in light of how long he has lied about so much, I don't have a baseline to grade trust. I'm waiting for that to return.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sadfww:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FamilyMatters:
<strong> What do I do now?
My W thinks we cannot recover!
Can a H somehow develop an electric, spontaneous, crazy relationship with his W?
Can A FWW be set free within her M to be the person she was allowed to be with OM and can we accomplish all of this while maintaining a sense of respect for one another?

Inquiring Minds Want To Know...

I Need To Know.... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes and yes...

H and I have NEVER had spectacular "marital relations" even when we were first dating- and for a LONG time after my A's I was completely uninterested. The last few months as I have made a big effort to turn our marriage around I find myself eager (blush) and have been umm... a lot more *daring* in that side of our relationship then I ever have before. I really do think it is possible to *create* this chemistry. I know Dr. Harley talks about the *in love* feelings coming once your emotional needs are being met regularly-and I think that is true not only in a *romantic* way but also in a sexual way.

I'll bow out now b/c my face is on fire! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I truly hope I'm able to create this with my W...of course her feelings of guilt must be remedied with the same interest. I'm so happy for you! I wish you the best...gosh I wish my W would post here so she could see our sitch is NOT strange, crazy or without HOPE...

the only way our sitch is without hope is if we don't get the proper information on how to work through our obstacles. Thanks for responding.

FM - I'm kinda in the same boat...I can't figure it out either...Though, my WH doesn't go w/very young OP - like your WW - but, the majority of the OW aren't all that - they don't have all the attributes that I have..Yet, he prefers them...

Did he ever call and ask for a nooner from me.....NOOO

Did we ever sneak off to a hotel room.....NOOOOOOO

Did he ever want oral sex from me.......NOOOOOOO

He reserves the fun, hot sex for other men's wifes...while his wife is void of any SF...

Will we ever find the answer??? I doubt it...

I'm sorry you are going thru this---it's very hard to accept that they are soooo open w/basically a stranger and sooo closed sexually w/thier own spouse...I long to be treated as a "hoe"...hahahhah...by my WH...

Oh I know I am going to get hit with it some where in hear but I do not care this very thing pisses me OFF!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> NOW first I will calm down
OK can that be the issue ,,, and not fog or babble I belive it can ... Do I find it to be shallow and well so many other things but I can't spell while mad !

THIS NEED is taken way out of control just like so many others that I hate ...

So is she saying that if you can't use and ABUSE her sexually then the magic is never going to be there????? SORRY if harsh ..

I do think haveing well sex differantly could be great ,,, or the need to turn it up a notch is well very appealing .....

BUT you are correct and I do not care who agrees with me or not ... YOU are married and have responsiblitys ... You can't be screwing in the cars and motels and the kids do need to be cared for .....

SO if she is looking for a FULL time LOVER ,,In the sack all the time or at her whim ,,,, then MARRIAGE with a family is not going to get her there ,,,,,

I got to come back later sorry this gets to me !
Its like the need for a super model appearance ! very shallow ... selfish ,, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Although I am sure you could do SUPER MAN thing for her !

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Help is there anyone out there who can relate?
Is there anyone out there who has pointed out the 1200 Pound Elephant and successfully lead his [censored] out of their bedroom?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry FM, can't relate as the 1200 Pound Elephant you reference would be the OW that broke up my marriage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> AND, as 2Long and Spacecase (who hasn't been around in eons) will support, I on the other hand am 5'5" and 122 pounds, wear my hair same color and style as Sharon Stone - you get the picture.

Brit's Brat/BS-43
XH-45
DS-3
Status: D-day 5-02, divorce final 5-04 after fighting to save my marriage for 2 long years...

my little mantra :

It is much easier to act your way to a feeling, than it is to feel your way to an action.

How many times have you tried something new out, just to discover you liked it? You would have never known until you tried it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by restarting:
<strong> FM- her rationalle of what she's done. It is, sadly, the only way she can currently live with her guilt, isn't it? She's got to have a reason to give herself for why she did so many stupid things, hurtful things, hateful things, thoughtless things, doesn't she? And helps her to rationlize why she's not make any true effort towards you.

FM, it's babble. Doesn't make it less hurtful, tho, does it?

Sadly, I wish I had a fix, but I'm in the same boat as you, still, I think, altho I have had an apology and alot of words that he's truly committed to us. What is most troubling - and I have told him as much - in light of how long he has lied about so much, I don't have a baseline to grade trust. I'm waiting for that to return. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YES!

She must make up an excuse as to WHY she did what she did, and that excuse must be something I was unable to give thus releaving her of some of the guilt, not much but some. The bottom-line is she was used and abused and tossed aside and now she has returned to me all icky and stuff. (Sometimes you must laugh to keep from crying yah know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

I'm so glad to have you folks to confide in. If I told my best friend he'd hit the roof and only fuel a hasty exit or worse he'd proclaim it's time to seek comfort elsewhere. The truth is I do not feel disgust just sadness that she has done this to herself and to us. I do not have such a short memory, I remember my own mistakes but for some strange reason those old double standards do creep in don't they?

I still love my W but understanding her is a whole other issue, and its not that I DON'T RESPECT HER, IT'S MORE LIKE I FEEL SHE DOES NOT RESPECT MEEEEEEEEEE.

FM- you wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm so glad to have you folks to confide in. If I told my best friend he'd hit the roof and only fuel a hasty exit or worse he'd proclaim it's time to seek comfort elsewhere. The truth is I do not feel disgust just sadness that she has done this to herself and to us. I do not have such a short memory, I remember my own mistakes but for some strange reason those old double standards do creep in don't they?

I still love my W but understanding her is a whole other issue, and its not that I DON'T RESPECT HER, IT'S MORE LIKE I FEEL SHE DOES NOT RESPECT MEEEEEEEEEE.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Too many similarities! Gee Wiz!

Me, too, on the having this place to go to, altho I jumped the gun on introducing the site to H, I think. Tho't I'd still be as open (it's the venting I miss), but am not.

But I will say this: At least HERE there are people pulling for your M and yes, no one tho't I'd EVER wait this long nor that I'd ever tolerate any of this.

One of the hardest issues regrading all of the painful revelations that my W offered up finally last night, is the razor sharp dagger that she is still fogged! Why else would she say things like:

I dont think I ever was that way with you?

Woman of course we USED to be wild and crazy and spontaneous and all of that great stuff
but the issues that creep into a marriage zapped us of that electricity...then you meet OM and with each indescrection or each secret intimate private thing you shared with OM that was mine and ours alone,....OUR INTIMACY eroded. My W doesn't realize even at this stage of the Rollercoaster that her R with OM had anything to do with our LACK of a happy M...she still thinks she was totally out of love with me before OM came along...and this is just not true....her MEMORY is all but
depleated. She has no recollection that I was her FIRST and her MINE...that we invented positions, she learned many of the things she curled OM toes with by practicing on me for what? 12 years??? She doesn't remember wearing sexy underwear for me? She doesn't remember us destroying a bed frame or two? She doesn't remember us having spontaneous sex in crazy places without any fear? WOMAN I AM THE ONE YOU DID ALL THOSE THINGS WITH FIRST...she doesn't realize that each time she did something with OM she chipped away at her feelings with ME her H.

*Sigh.....

My W is still very fogged
Her memory is very selective
And this is why I wanted her to NOT only browse and lurk on this site but to post and to truly start to understand and come out of this damned fog. It must be alot more comfortable staying in the fog, at least then she can believe Half Truths and sometimes Complete Repaintings of our History and continue to rationalize where we are, but it's only with really accepting all the damage that WE have caused can we repair it. I made many of the same mistakes that she has, the only difference is I have waken up. Nothing more, nothing less

FM -

Is your wife on A/D's? I still think it is about depression. When she was seeing OM, she had that brain chemical thing going and that probably alleviated her symtoms of depression. She was able to escape her depression because of what goes on with the chemicals in the brain during the little lust party she was having.

What I would suggest to someone who could not get the wild, sexy feelings for their partner is to "think nasty", and use him as the fantasy man in her fantasies. A few days of thinking these kind of thoughts and she would practically be begging for it...sex is all in your head.

I fell in love with my BF when I was 40 and he is the first man that has ever completely filled me in everyway. I never fantasize about any other man but my BF and we have never lost our passion and total desire for each other (probably one reason I haven't been able to move on) I know if I ever allow myself to fantazise about another man we would be in trouble, so I am careful about this.

I used to have trouble "letting go" in my relationships, I don't think I knew it was okay and that women really do love sex. He got me to watch a porn movie with him (the first and only one I ever saw) and it really changed the way I viewed sex. Kind of like it gave me permission to be wild, even with the man I wanted to spend the rest of my life with.

We make a point of having atleast one night every couple of weeks where we hole up in a motel or in my bedroom, with movies and fun things and just enjoy each other. I like wine and he likes the occasional smoke so we reserve this kind of special, nasty, intimate alone time with our favorite vices for these times. It's somthing we both look forward too all week.

I think your wife needs A/D's (I'm on Lexapro) and to explore her sexual feelings with you. Her libido is probably way low due to depression. There are also several good herbal combinations for increasing female libido on the market. (I can get the details if you want). You have to understand that her desire was up when she was running around with OM because the chemicals in her brain were going crazy, and they temporarily masked her depression.

Just some thoughts of what might help.

FM,

I don't think it's about wild monkey sex at all.

I think it's about not having responsibilities, not gettind old, not getting boring. She's afraid of all that. My opinion, everybody's got one.

Is she in NC now?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by turtlehead:
<strong> FM,

I don't think it's about wild monkey sex at all.

I think it's about not having responsibilities, not gettind old, not getting boring. She's afraid of all that. My opinion, everybody's got one.

Is she in NC now? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I havent found anything that proves otherwise so I must say yes she's in No Contact. Then again she kept him secretly in our M for the last year and a half until until I cracked her cellphone...

No contact, I'm pretty sure but not positive

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
<strong>

I think your wife needs A/D's (I'm on Lexapro) and to explore her sexual feelings with you. Her libido is probably way low due to depression. There are also several good herbal combinations for increasing female libido on the market. (I can get the details if you want). You have to understand that her desire was up when she was running around with OM because the chemicals in her brain were going crazy, and they temporarily masked her depression.

Just some thoughts of what might help. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Weaver you have really hit on something. YES, my W has went in and out of depression he whole life...what a great point...it's time she get prescribed a real Anti-D not a freaking tranquilizer like XANAX which is what her previous Dr. prescribed.

I will talk to her about this very soon. I know more than likely the next time I see her she will be very depressed. She will want to sit around and mop and then here comes thoughts of suicide and other doom and gloom...I try to help but it's not me is it? Do you think my W was self-medicating with OM, or using him as a form of self-medication?

This would explain alot.

Okay. The reason I asked is she said she doesn't think the two of you can recover.

Maybe it's withdrawal.
Maybe it's guilt.
Maybe it's a reluctance to face the music.

I don't know why she'd think you can't recover. I think the A wasn't about the sex, I think it was about avoiding being an adult. Maybe she's not ready to grow up? It's painful.

I think, given time, she'll realize it's worth the effort though.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by turtlehead:
<strong> Okay. The reason I asked is she said she doesn't think the two of you can recover.

Maybe it's withdrawal.
Maybe it's guilt.
Maybe it's a reluctance to face the music.

I don't know why she'd think you can't recover. I think the A wasn't about the sex, I think it was about avoiding being an adult. Maybe she's not ready to grow up? It's painful.

I think, given time, she'll realize it's worth the effort though. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes,
Yes
and Yes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I agree it is worth the effort. I do worry about her very much, her mental-state is shaky from time to time, so much guilt, depression and pain. There is always hope and hurting yourself purposely is not the answer. I wish I could force her to get help, but I can't, I can only suggest and if she doesn't take my advice I must decide what kind of life I want and then get on with the business of pursuing that life and protecting my children...what choices do I really have? Limited options no doubt.

I suggested that she contact the doctor for an Anti D it took some persuading...she then tried to talk to me about appearing on a that E Affair show...let me get this right?

You won't come on a annonymous website dealing with saving our M but you'll go on a tv program about A's and air all our laundry?

OM would have to sign a disclaimer, waiving his rights to privacy and I told her emphatically that in my opinion OM would never agree. When I confronted OM on the phone in July he wouldn't even admit to having anything other than a platonic R with my W..though unbeknownst to him my W had previously admitted being with OM for almost the entire time during our separation and I believe her. My W felt there was never anything wrong with having a R with OM while M to me because we were separated. It still sticks in my throat that she didn't want this separation or a divorce until after she fell for OM. The rewriting of history is magical isn't it?

How can you suggest I go on TV with you and OM? My life isn't a sideshow though sometimes it resembles one, and you know she sounded a little upset that I didn't agree to apply for the show?!?!? Lord please give me the strength. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ October 28, 2004, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>