On another message board someone mentioned my H might be a serial cheater. What is a serial Cheater?
Yes my H has had multiple affair (physical affairs)without emotion. Our Sex life is very active.....yet I still don't understand why.
H just says he made stupid choices not thinking about the outcome.
Does anyone have any insight on this?

Lori

<small>[ October 29, 2004, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: loriharris ]</small>

BUMP...still no answer??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by loriharris:
H just says he made stupid choices not thinking about the outcome.
Does anyone have any insight on this?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This response may not qualify as insight, but here it is.

Your H's "answer" is very shallow and is really a non-response. This answer shows virtually zero insight and self-examination.

I would not accept this answer from my teenagers.

Pep

Hi lori --

I understand a serial cheater to be someone who has repeated affairs, learns little or nothing from them, then continues on a while later doing the same thing. It's a pattern that's very hard to break.
Take care -
Shellybird

From my perspective, a serial cheater, like my WH, has repeated EA/PA's, and the PA wasn't the initial interest. It's an emotional/personality need being filled. Personally I wish I had recognized that a serial cheater probably can't be cured, unless they want to be, many years ago. It's not a sex addiction, but an addiction or habit just the same.

Lori, a serial cheater usually cheats as a matter of character. Marriage Builders is not designed to alter one's character but rather address an aberration of character brought on by difficulty in the marriage.

Basically, a serial cheater can only change if he has an intense desire to change his personality and goes to counseling. The spouse of a serial cheater cannot change him; he must make that decision all on his own.

<small>[ October 30, 2004, 06:31 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

LoriHarris -
As a serial cheater myself, and now a repentant FWH working towards change, I have to agree with (and take heart with) the sentiments expressed above.

I cheated with multiple women as a result of character flaws within myself - problems with my self-esteem and ego that led me to seek attention from other women constantly. Even if I didn't sleep with them or do anything that was considered cheating by my wife, any amount of attention or flirtation I received was extremely satisfying and made me feel like a "big man." This type of attention may have been more difficult to receive had I not been in a very popular band with a large female following.

The PA's I had (there was little if any emotional connection) weren't even that sexually satisfying - in fact, it wasn't really about the act of getting SF at all, it was about the "conquest," the ability to make a woman want me that much, that stroked my ego immensely. I actually have ALWAYS gotten better SF from my W than from anyone else.

I look back at that person now and abhor him. I am attempting, through IC and lots of self-introspection, to figure out WHY my esteem and ego issues are so bad that they allowed me to destroy my marriage. Apparently there is hope for me to change, but like any problem, recognizing it and removing oneself from the environment and resisting temptation are the first steps...and that's what I'm doing. Now it's time to get inside and work on ME.

My wife is just now starting to have some tentative hope that I will be successful, but it WILL be a long road.

Hi Lori,

Not unlike VnusMars, my H was also a serial cheater and a professional musician.

I tend to believe that although he was very talented, his profession of choice had more to do with the attention it yielded as opposed to the artistic gratification it satisfied.

The music was a means to an end - The END being an excessive need for ADMIRATION to the extreme.

JMVHO,
Jo

<small>[ October 31, 2004, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Thread caught my eye...

Anyone have any resources (websites/books) regarding this "character flaw"? Although I've seen the term "serial cheat" and "serial infidelity" bantered about, I've been unable to uncover any "hard" info. Any help appreciated.

For those not familiar with my sitch... here ya go

<small>[ October 31, 2004, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Ron53 ]</small>

Excellent definition from Melody. My WW's earliest memory is as a 4 year old being taken with her hysterical mother, looking for her wayward father. She asked me not to judge her dad too harshly because she later found out that her mom had earlier done the same thing to her father.

Her father has almost always had a mistress but especially just before my WW's escapade, he made little pretense at hiding it. So according to my WW, her father is a serial cheater as is probably her mom, her brother was a card carrying member(also fathered a child as a result of one of his several A's). Her maternal aunt has been divorced 5 times. Her fraternal uncle has also been a serial adulterer and lost his job as a result of one ending as a sexual harassment suit.Another fraternal aunt has been married 3 times. And that is just close family.

All of her family is highly educated, several masters and a PhD. My mom was so intimidated by their degrees and apparent "standing" in the community, that I had to convince her to come out for the wedding. I can still remember her saying that we "don't fit in with their class of people" She laughed the other day when I reminded her of those feelings she had voiced 8 years ago.Little did she know how right in a wrong way she truly was.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not unlike VnusMars, my H was also a serial cheater and a professional musician.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow...after reading this thread have to say my WS is also a serial cheater and a musician...I always attended most of his gigs and when he was talking to other woman his excuse was they were interested in booking the band <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'ld like to add one thing to Melodys' reply regarding the serial cheater can change themselves, but the BS cannot change him -

"And they will only change when the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change"

As VnusMars has found out by his wife leaving the marriage to have her own affair.

In these cases MB principles will not work until after the serial cheater has changed but I strongly believe that a good Plan B can put the desire for change in motion.

My daughters dad is a professional musician also and cheated on me repeatedly like VnusMars, even though I knew he loved me, I had such poor boundaries he walked all over me. Once he asked me "how come you kept taking me back?" "you made it too eash for me!" However he has changed for his now wife, and it is because she puts up with NOTHING, she has the best boundaries and self respect I have ever seen, and he knows she would leave in a second if he ever fooled around.

If I had MB all those years ago, I would have plan B'd the first time, and I believe we may be together now if only I had known about cheaters, about boundaries, about self respect. This is what I am learning from MB now.

Lori- Sorry you are "here"...I am M to a serial cheat.

It's tough..but as Melody said the BS can't change them..and they have to want to change..My WH does not want to change..it is his character..it's who he is..and changing is harder than living w/me in a train wreck of a M, it's harder to change and accept himself than to give up 1/2 of all he owns, face public embarresment, etc. The easy way for my WH is to just keep doing what he's use to...

He use to hide his A's from me - know he really doesn't seem to care what I know..He only cares in case I would use it against him in court..

It was very hard to catch him since he had a few OW going at the same time..They think he's a nice guy, just wonderful, that it's a shame he lives w/such a B$*%^, that I am the worst wife in the world..that I have neglected him, etc..Funny, how I only became a B#(%$ when I caught him red handed.

We differ as my WH and I had very little to no SF (at least w/each other) for quite some time. Basically, I'd get the once a year curtisy F&#*....

Please be careful of STD's..have yourself checked - and make him wear a condom,..If they don't care about their own safety don't think they are gonna care about yours...

I do believe my WH has some emotional ties w/some of them..others strictly sex...He's only nice if he wants something..A classic TAKER...Classic Cakeman..

I have given up though I have not file for D - I have to realize he doesn't want to change..and that's 100% of the battle...and I don't believe any women will ever be worth enough to make him change...

Good Luck...and I hope your WH gets help..

I tried to live with this sort of WH for years, only my name for it was "attention addict" (especially female attention.) Just like any other sort of addict, there was nothing he would not do to get his fix, and goddess help anyone who got in his way. And just like any other sort of addict, he destroyed his family rather than give up his fix.

What happens if you try to POJA anything with someone like this? This was the one thing my WH absolutly positively refused to do. The whole idea made him roaring angry. Having to discuss *movie times* with me made him furious enough to walk out the door and stay gone for a while. But everything was just fine and he was sweet as molasses pie as long as I did not ever, ever, ever expect him to POJA anything -- double especially when it came to anything to do with his job.

Is refusal to POJA a characteristic of a serial cheater/attention addict, or was I seeing something else?
Mulan

"Is refusal to POJA a characteristic of a serial cheater/attention addict, or was I seeing something else?"

What an excellent question. I too would like some views/experience on this one. Could be very interesting.

How could someone POJA a character trait?

The character trait being -- what, exactly? Selfishness? Stubbornness? Cruelty? Or the destructive, addictive, and bottomless need for attention that is also known as Narcississim?
Mulan

I took the question to mean do serial cheaters share the same inability to POJA. Not the inability to POJA cheating.

Mulan said her WS wouldn't even POJA a time to watch a movie.

So would the character trait of serial cheating have the character trait of not being able to POJA.

This in my opinion would fall into extreme selfishness and immaturity. So that would also be the character trait of cheating.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mulan:
<strong> The character trait being -- what, exactly? Selfishness? Stubbornness? Cruelty? Or the destructive, addictive, and bottomless need for attention that is also known as Narcississim?
Mulan </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have no idea what the exact trait would be called. But it seems to me that it would take more than negotiation to change one's character. AND their agreement, of course.

Didn't mean to threadjack, loriharris, but I do appreciate the responses to my question (hope it helped you too.)

As Melody said, MB techniques will not work when you are dealing with an addict. It doesn't matter whether the addiction is to heroin, alcohol, gambling, sex, or attention/admiration. I wish I had understood this a long time ago. It's like using a feather to get the attention of a runaway train. It's just not ever going to work and you could die trying.

Maybe some of the frequent MB posters could watch a little closer for this and alert these BSs to that fact. It would have been very helpful to me if someone could have pointed out that my WH was not a "typical" WH but was in fact behaving like the hard-core addict that he is.

I still lurk here frequently though I rarely post anymore. I will be in personal recovery from this for a very long time. This is pretty much the only resource that I have but most of the people here will not respond to me anymore.

Ron53, not to ignore you -- just do a Google search on "narcississm." I think you will find what you are looking for. Good luck. You'll need it.
Mulan