Ditto Hosea

I would reply, quickly, with the, we'll start to work it out after NC BEGINS with OM.

The SH issue, I wouldn't push too much...but she is quoting MB, so she has been doing some research...have you left the book out where she could find it? And she has been reading the book about Love Languages. She is just choosing to read what she wants to read into it right now...

FGG:

What she's telling you in no uncertain terms (well, that isn't right, the terms are very uncertain, though she might think she knows what she's saying) that she will keep OM "in the wings, just in case" you don't measure up or pony up and do what she wants you 2 do.

I did wonder a little whether you should offer 2 see her with the MC, but only then. But I think that even that is "giving in" 2 her desire 2 meet you on her fence.

You should check out what my W and I are talking about these days - 3 YEARS after d-day.

Makes me more of a proponent of plan B than I thought I would ever be. I don't want 2 do it now, though. I need the communication 2 keep from imagining all kinds of things that aren't happening. Hard enough keeping straight the things that are!

best,
-ol' 2long

Wow, I didn't know so many folks were there and reading. I really, really appreciate the quick responses.

I take it as firm confirmation that I really have no choice but to continue with my plan. She still has absolutely no clue. She has never said she wants me to leave, actually, right the opposite. However, it's been a devils' food cake since day one, and continues to be.

Due to the impending ice storm, I am not anxious to drive to #1S's house tonight as I may be iced in there. So...this is cool folks...I've called my "landlord" and gotten his permission to stay in "This Old House" (I couldn't help it, I had to do that). I've got a sleeping blanket, I'm going to Wal-Mart and buy some space heaters and camp tonight. Of course, I reserve the right to get up in the middle of the night and go to a hotel if I get too cold.

Georgia

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Formerly G.G.:
<strong> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To which I replied:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Steve Harley?

OM ? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This was her response:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> have the name of a local counselor and a center in Atlanta. As to whether OM stays out of my life depends on you. That would be part of the counseling process, figuring out why my needs are not being met in our marriage.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you folks make of this?

Georgia </strong>

{insert foghorn sound here} <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Part of the counseling process should be "why, if your needs weren't being met, did you choose to go outside the marriage rather than discuss them with me?"

As regards to the counselor in Atlanta, when or if she gets around to acting upon your Plan B letter, I would approach it by saying "I would like for us to counsel with SH intially. Once we are underway repairing our marriage without OM in the wings, we can look at the possibility of meeting with the counselor in Atlanta."

GG,

I think your WW is starting to come around, but only because you've stuck to your plan all along.

She has shown no remorse, never taken responsibility for her actions, and is blaming you still. I see no motivation for you to see a generic MC. The stories of BAD counselors abound on this webiste, and I have personally experienced a few.

Stick with your committment to yourself which is NC with OM AND counseling with SH. With her history, if I were you - I wouldn't take her back until she coaches with SH and HE tells you it's safe to be in a relationship with her. She has lots of hard work ahead of her with SH before she really starts to see the light.

He's great with WS's, but because of his level of expertise in this narrow field, it will be real hard for her if not impossible to fool SH with her rationale for the affair. I truly believe he has heard it all.

I'm actually glad to hear she's doing some reading and is starting to talk some relationship lingo....but she's not over being really angry at you, especially if you stick to you plan which is NC & calling SH. Please, please stick to that plan, there's none better.

As to whether OM stays out of my life depends on you.
No, it depends SOLELY on her! As she has shown time & again, YOU cannot keep him out of her life.

That would be part of the counseling process, figuring out why my needs are not being met in our marriage.
Actually, figuring out why her needs were not met is irrelevant as long as you are now willing to meet them.
What is relevant is figuring out HOW to meet her needs that matters.

Who the counseling with is not too important at this time, as long as the counselor is committed to helping you restore the marriage and not just telling both/either of you things you want to hear (such as, "your affair was okay because he didn't meet your needs" or "you should divorce because your marraige will not work. She wants out.")

However, ending the affair (and a commitment to no-contact IS critical before you can start repairing the marriage.

<small>[ January 28, 2005, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Umm...

No, no, no, no, no...most revealing 'state of the union' phrase that 'tips' her hand as it were was this "whether or not OM stays out of my life depends on you".

With all due respect to Mrs. FGG - NO, it does NOT. I've been there, done that. Don't get me wrong FGG - this letter on its own is a good sign, but not the way Mrs. FGG might have thought. It shows the pain of her ongoing bad choices is starting to break through that hardened shell. Do not deprive her of the chance to hit bottom.

I have watched way too many BS's on here get sucked right back in (not saying that you are one of these or that you were even planning to delay any prior plans based on this letter) with their WS's before their WS's were truly ready.

While not all BS's are the same, not all WS's are the same either, but their actions follow a somewhat similar..somewhat predictable path. I'll have to admit, even myself as a FWW, your wife has me a little stumped.

Granted, this is a message board and we only have one side of the story, just as you have been given only my side, I would say that how and what you share, and just what I've seen here lends credence to the facts as I can see them. While I'm sure there were things you could have done differently, would have done differently, I guess I think her 'waywardness' (is that a word..lol) has a deeper initial root cause than just 'my needs weren't being met' even though that may be how she has justified and continues to justify her behavior.

I think there is a hole in her that she is expecting the OM and/or you to fill...and I get a gut feeling that this is not something any of you can do. I don't know whether it is a medical, emotional, or spiritual problem, but her actions and the fact that this has been ongoing behavior, just makes me want to dig a little deeper beneath the normal 'his needs/her needs' type stuff.

Her letter (remember, it is still a good sign)..but in my honest opinion, putting myself back in that sickening mindset for a moment reads as thus to my old wayward eyes:

I do miss you, I miss what needs you did meet for me. I am trying to see if I can lure you back in because I am being outed and have been 'caught' and now I want to get out of 'immediate' trouble. So, I am extending you this letter so I can reduce the amount of pain and complaints from everyone, BUT..I want to do it on my terms. I can't 'surrender' and do it with Steve Harley because that gives you control. Also, Steve is probably on your side, so I'll just get bashed. I don't want to hear that what I'm doing is wrong, I want someone to explain to you what went wrong in our marriage that made this ok.

Notice that she says "and find out why my needs weren't being met in our marriage". I'm sorry FGG, she is headed in right direction for an eventual epiphany or for a further crash. For all the love that you bear her, be strong enough to let her fall for her own sake. As SHMI pointed out, yes it looks like she is doing some reading..kind of learning the lingo..but as an alcoholic (was in AA like forever) and a FWW myself, this is sometimes another 'ploy' - a kind of "see, I HAVE done some stuff"...

A possible compromise could be in order on the counselor situation - perhaps a "let's have a couple of sessions with Steve and a couple of sessions with who you chose", BUT that is ONLY (to me) after she has sent a letter of no contact to OM and has made a recommitment to your M and to finding what needs of yours she needs to meet also.

With her history, her issues, and what you have shared of her stubborness - I just see this latest as needing to have come with that horrible tone warning that they give when doing one of those emergency broadcasts...like "this is a test of the emergency B.S. station..warning, this is only a test". (and B.S. wasn't for broadcast station)

Sorry, didn't mean to be crude..just trying to make you laugh.

My gut says she is testing you, she hasn't hit bottom, don't save her too soon only to hurt more later. Be kind and loving as you always are (and you can do this without responding), but I'd vote for staying firmly on your path and your plan. I'd also ask God to affirm your path - it's always good to check in with Him than just rely on silly people like me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

FYR

GG,

Have a nice night!

It sounds like an excellent adventure.

I think you are on track, but your W is a real tough nut to crack.

-AD

Thanks to you all for your comments. I'm about to leave work and go to dinner.

I think she's realizing the house of cards is not crumbling, but falling. After her last e-mail (to which I did not and will not respond), she sent another that asked why $1,000 was taken out of our checking account yesterday. Of course, I will not respond to that one either.

Monday is the day that the whole plan comes into play. There will be lots to report Monday night (assuming I have a working computer), I'm not too sure about ability to post this weekend.

Please continue to pray for me / us.

Georgia

She doesn't have access to all your paycheck, does she?

If so, I HIGHLY suggest you open a new account for your paycheck.
Put money into the old one if this is awhat you agreed to but do not let her have unlimited access to your daily living/bill money.

FYR:

You were right on the money with that assessment!

-ol' 2long

The next time communication occurs about marriage counseling, it might be good to make the point that you can only trust your marriage with a counselor who has a proven track record of recovery - because that's your only purpose in going through marriage counseling to begin with - to make a marriage that makes both of you blessedly happy - not to sort things out, or any other way miss the mark.

<small>[ January 28, 2005, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>

FGG,

Well you have gotten great advice, so it is "steady as she goes sir." Hope you don't freeze your tookus off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But, this seems like gentile way to go camping. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope you have a good weekend, I am sure Monday is going to be a shock for her. After all this is "all you fault." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You evil man you made her dial that phone and send those emails to BOTH OM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I think you have a plan and I sure hope she gets some help.

God Bless,

JL

GG,
Though not posting much, I have been following your saga reading with interest many of the comments made regarding your situation and the advice offered. At this point I would once again like to weigh in with a little advice of my own.

1. I think you need to be in closer contact with SH. You are now in a place where the decisions being made (or those that you are being forced to make), are of the final nature. I think you need to be in the hands of an objective strategist to coach you through this period and who better then SH? You know the man isn’t just about theory. What he’s about is winning. He’s hard-nosed pragmatist and I really think his “hands on coaching” is what you need right now. Don’t forget it’s as much about how and when as it what to do. At some later point you can go back to a regiment of occasional consultation. Right now you would be wise to stay closer to him.

2. You’ve rented an apartment and consulted with an attorney. This puts you at a totally different level of confrontation. You’re now playing hardball and you don’t play that game in half measures. The message you’re sending your WW is not one that she will be able to ignore so expect retribution. Given that you’ve let loose the dogs of war, why are you not pulling out all the stops and really driving home the message? For example, how about putting the house up for sale? How about closing credit card accounts? How about taking control of all cash assets other then those you must make available to her under the law? How about making it impossible for her to hire quality legal representation by financially strangling her? GG, your WW is still experiencing to much comfort in her life. You’re prolonging this situation and causing both she and you needless pain. You’ve made the decision to bludgeon her into submission and pick up the pieces at a latter date so stop trying to temper your actions and just get it done. In the end it will prove to be much the kinder way to have gone.

3. Your wife’s most recent effort to communicate is a perfect case in point. She’s actually attempting to negotiate! What nerve! You want her to stop cheating and she wants to negotiate? She is laying down terms about you meeting her EMs? LOL What would those EMs be? The need for you to support her selfish, childish, dishonest and willful nature? Sorry GG, this is beyond nonsense. By now the world (her world and everybody in it that she values) has confirmed to her that what she is, (and of course you love her but GG) but your wife is nothing more then a common, garden-variety cheater. How sad is this? So sad that Son #1 was trying to shield you from the pain of knowing the truth about affair #1! GG, let’s face facts, she’s a serial cheater! This latest affair has nothing to do with unmet EMs! What it’s about is her being a spoiled, willful, brat and you my friend have done the cosseting, protecting and spoiling so stop screwing around with this and cut off the money! Cut off every level of comfort you can. This isn’t about unmet EMs, it’s about delivering a lesson in humility.

4. If tomorrow she were to cave and agree to everything you’ve asked of her, could you trust her to keep the deal? GG, from now on, (when she comes back because I would bet anything she will be back), you had better have some new structure in place that changes the dynamics of this relationship for all times. Other wise, I would also bet anything that an affair #3 is almost a certainty.

Carl, you are a very good and kind man. Even more, you’re a decent man and an honest man. And I know that some of my words here must sound harsh but I think some plain talk is what’s needed right now. As I told you before, I’ve been where you are. You also know that I credit SH with saving my marriage, but even more important, he taught me to be honest with myself and face up to facts. Heck, you have to be because when the one you love and believe in most in the whole world, is cheating and lying to you, you have to be truthful with yourself if for no other reason then to protect your sanity. Call SH and stay close to him for a while! Ask him if taking more aggressive actions is now not what’s called for. Things are happening to fast for you to be flying by the seat of your pants.

Good luck.
Coach

FYR said "I don't want to hear that what I'm doing is wrong, I want someone to explain to you what went wrong in our marriage that made this ok."

YES! That's it in a nutshell!!

She's not liking what's going on, but she's not yet ready to acknowledge that her actions are the sole reasons she is where she is. Stay the course.

Good Evening to all -

Okay, I chickened out last night and came back to #1S's house for the night. A tip for you: Don't wait until an ice storm to go to Wal-Mart to buy a heater. They, as well as Lowe's, will be sold out.

Today I drove back to town and bought blinds and some cheap curtains for the apartment. I got started putting them up, but it got dark before I finished. I plan on going back over tomorrow after church to work and have invited the rest of the gang over to help. We'll see how it goes, we may all be iced in and no one going anywhere.

#1S tells me that MIL called today and said FIL is in the hospital with fluid on his lungs. Doing well and expected to be released tomorrow.

FIL asked #1S if he knew where his D had been staying. He told FIL that I had been staying with them.

That's about it for tonight.

BTW - I am working on sorting out the finances so I can only deposit what is needed in the joint account and also cancel the joint c.c. I am doing that as ambitiously as possible.

Georgia

GG,

Ok, I want to play. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You are doing extremely well. With your endurance and the support you have gotten here..... your personal recovery is well on it's way.... This is good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The WS is still far behind. Her words while they may sound good to the untrained ear..... is seen more as a manipulative tactic of which she seems to be working feverently to keep her stand on that fence.....while eating cake! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Pretty hard in good weather much less an ice storm. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ok, I just wanted to say your stance is encouraging. After all our posting, it is good to see someone set a plan and stick to it. Not that you are the only one but it takes a lot for a BS to get to that point. How I wish they would get to it sooner. For that matter I wish I did also. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> But some of us take longer that others.... I am living proof. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Glad your son is your supporter. Hope your FIL is gets better.

Ice and fog don't mix well. Hope your WS clears up some of that fog.

Keep up the good work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

All the best,
L.

Good Morning to all -

Today is the big day. Me and both of the boys are renting a truck and going over to the house. We will load up one bedroom, one set of L/R furniture, my desk, other odds and ends, and take it to the apartment (while WW is at work). Then, I plan to go by the school, drop off my car and pick up hers. I've got a dealer who says he wants to buy it, and I will sell it to him to pay off the loan.

Anyway, that's the plan. It's going to be an intense day. Please pray for us all today.

Georgia

You, your WW and your sons are in my thoughts and prayers!!!

FGG,

Praying for you today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />