Hi B,

I too have followed your story all this time since almost a year ago.I don't want to come down hard on ya but can I say how disappointed I am? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

You fell into the same trap WS's do: you felt entitled due to all you had been through but you know it wasn't right and now you will most likely not ever see this guy again.I agree you have given it your best all this time and you have given so much support to so many but what a way to end it.I had so much hope in you that you would do the right thing all the way til the very end.What I think you missed was filing for a D first and putting that part of your life away,on the shelf, before moving on to another encounter.

I don't think that being such a wonderful woman as you are excuses what you did in any way though,as much as the fine folks here would like to do.I personally just know that I could not have any contact with another man until I am divorced,once and for all.I want to be able to say that I was faithful until I was no longer supposed to be.I am just disappointed that such a strong,intelligent woman made a choice like you did.If we all keep making choices and excuses like this,what's the point of marriage?

Anyway,I have always hoped for the best for you and I still do.

O

<small>[ October 31, 2004, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Thanks for all of the input. I do feel very badly about the ONS. I have always believed that a marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman and the Lord.

My WH broke the covenant, but I had intended to keep it.

I never thought this would happen to me, because I did so well for so long. Oh Well. I guess it can happen to anyone.

Hi believer - How does the old saying go, "let him who is without sin cast the first stone". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I think that you deserve commendation for what you have put up with and done to try and save your M. You are being way to hard on yourself. What if you had waited another 2 months, done the same, and your H came back to you then, would that have been better?

It's happened, you need to move past it and forgive yourself as you have done many a time to you WS.
Remember, you to are a human being with feelings, wants and need. Strangely enough you may be slightly imperfect. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thinking of you - RM

<small>[ October 31, 2004, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: RenaissanceMan ]</small>

believer,

We all know that you are a human just like anyone else, and we all know that ANYONE is vulnerable to temptation. I doubt if anyone here is "blaming" or "judging" because of what happened the other night.

Now, you could feel enormous guilt, punish yourself, and generally feel badly about yourself. May I make a suggestion? I believe most would call this a "bad situation" but you are a godly woman, and I know that you have a relationship with God, and "...all things work together for good to them that love God, for them who are the called according to His purpose..." (Romans 8:28) even this.

believer, never forget this...He uses ALL things for good, not just the "good" things or the "godly" things, but even the MESSY things and the UGLY things!

In this instance, believer, you are well known for being the first person to respond to those who write here. You have a heart filled with compassion and sympathy. Yet, there is a certain BS state-of-mind that just doesn't understand what a WS goes through...or how they get there...or how that guilt feels once they do realize what they've done.

Dearest sister, please use this momentary slip as a way of finding understanding and compassion for our WS co-warriors. Not that it's any "excuse" but now you have a wonderful understanding of how years and years of unmet EN's leave a person vulnerable. Now you have firsthand knowledge of what that guilt feels like--in a small way--for even a momentary slip in judgement...much less coming to grips with destroying your family and permanently harming your own children. God can use this instance of human fraility to bring you compassion and understanding for WS's.

(((((believer)))))


CJ

<small>[ October 31, 2004, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: FaithfulNewCJ ]</small>

believer,

you sound so sad. Is it because you have damaged your self image? You seem to be a person who has very high standards and expectations of yourself. It sounds to me like you need to be just a little bit kinder to yourself...

I think the issues about what your WH wants now and what you have done in your life are not related at all. I am guessing that you have learnt a huge amount over the last 2 years - still you're not perfect but you're generally happy with how you've come out of this, is that right?
Sounds like it might well be a hard road for your WH over the next few years, because he has a lot to learn.

My FWW is a good person who did a very bad thing that hurt lots of people very badly.

Believer is a very good person who did a bad thing that seems to have hurt nobody but herself.

That good people can do stupid and bad things without being REDEFINED as 'bad people' is one of the primary lessons I have learned through my own infidelity trauma.

Please everyone don't project your bitterness towards your own WS onto Believer. She hasn't hurt YOU, and I guess needs no words from us to make her feel like poop.

* edited for spelling *

<small>[ November 01, 2004, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Please everyone don't ptoject your bitterness towards your own WS onto Believer. She hasn't hurt YOU, and I guess needs no words from us to make her feel like poop. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's exactly what's hapenning here (most) and exactly how I see many replies...
So sad...

Believer, don't allow this putting you down, and please distinguish this...
and many regards and support from me, a BSneverbeenWS who never sees you as a WS.

<small>[ November 01, 2004, 05:12 AM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

Argh.I knew this thread was headed exactly where it's going.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION that believer is a wonderful woman,has given it her best with her WH,waited,prayed,helped other's,supported all of us,etc.But,what I see is this fine line being crossed again about allowances and entitlement.Why are there people here making excuses and suggesting this was something she needed to do when we are all here fighting Infidelity??? If we all agree that adultery is never the answer to anything then why are there allowances now? Just because believer is a sweet person with a good heart shall we say "Oh well,do what you must"? Do we each have a statement like that in our mind ready to give into at any given time?

And just because some of us are not jumping on the bandwagon of support for believers decision we are getting accused of being judgemental or being bitter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> That is completely inappropriate and uncalled for! It's similar to calling people "unpatriotic" because you don't subscribe to us being at war or vote for Bush and therefore don't support our troops.Far from the truth.

How is this any different then stealing? Robbing a bank? Hitting some person on the street? We know it's wrong,but should there ever be an excuse to forget that?

Believer has been here for over a year now,like many of us.We have been with her through it all.She knows right from wrong.What if this time her WH was really being truthful? I know that is a long shot but how can any of us be sure? Only and only until we are actually DIVORCED should we be involved with another man or woman and even then after some introspection and healing.There is absloutely NO justification for Infidelity and there never will be.I don't care how many emotional needs aren't being met.Get D'd FIRST.

IMVHO,that is where believer made her mistake but she also made a choice not to do that,after all this time and then have sex with this other guy.If we all have this potential to cheat in our minds and hearts because we allow it to be there if times are tough,and our fiances knew this ahead of time,do you think people would still be getting married?

If I am up at the alter taking vows and with the knowledge that my MARRIAGE means,among other things,being loved and protected from pain and harm by my spouse but in the back of his mind he has an out clause("I'm not happy anymore","It's over anyway","We just grew apart","I have to do this for me",etc),am I still going to be getting married? Nope.Marriage is supposed to be as sacred from day one until the very day we are no longer married(even longer for some).That is a reponsibility we ALL have despite what our spouses are doing.

We all have to able to speak our minds here openly without confrontation.Debate is good but when people start labeling you just because you don't agree that's unfair.And it's also,in my mind,irresponsible not to own up to what we as adults already know as truth.Denial it powerful but it gets you nowhere.

O

OG I haven't intended to label anyone, I just felt B. was getting a rougher deal than remorseful WS normally get on this fine forum.

Mebbe we apply higher standards to her 'cos shes a BS like us, who should know how painful such behaviour can be ?

I dunno.

Believer - I, unfortunately, don't have a lot of time this morning to formulate an adequate post for you and the many issues that are involved. So just a few quick thoughts for now.

1. Married or not, sex outside of marriage is a sin. So you sinned. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." "For this reason Christ came into the world...."

2. There is only one "unforgiveable sin" and it is NOT adultery or fornication.

3. Feelings of love nothwithstanding, you ARE married since you are not yet divorced. Feelings, even lack of feelings, lie to us all the time. They give "excuses" and "justifications" for sinful behavior, but it's not right.

4. "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" is operative to all of us. However, it is not "casting a stone," meant to kill, to stand up for God's clear commands and direction. It is a Christian's "duty" to lovingly talk to a fellow believer who has fallen prey to sin.

5. Our human nature is NOT an excuse for sin. It IS something that we have to deal with all of our lives and we "deal with it" through obedience to God's commands no matter what we are feeling at any given time. "Just this once," or it's "I've waited long enough," ARE excuses, but they are not justification for sin. That's why Moses didn't get to go into the promised land when he struck the rock more than once in anger and frustration over the people's demands for things "their way."

6. You have erected a defensive wall around your heart. Understandable in light of all that you have gone through, but not what God wants from you or me. Only you can decide when to knock down a few of the stones and install a drawbridge. Only you can decide when, and if, you will lower the drawbridge and allow someone inside your "castle."

7. God is a God of miracles. Usually about the time we, in all of our human wisdom, consider something to be hopeless.... "Is anything too hard or impossible for God?"

8. "It's not fair!!!!" Perhaps not, but OUR purpose in life is to bring honor and glory to God, not to be "treated fairly" by anyone. "Fair treatment," especially in the case of a spouse, is predicated on both of you being believers and being obedient to God's commands. As you both walk closer with Christ and become closer to God, you WILL be closer and "fairer" with each other. God IS the head and center of all Christian marriages. The "trouble" comes when we "get impatient" and kick Him off the throne and install ourselves in that position. After all, WE do know best, don't we?

9. Even some Christian marriages fail. Now is not the time to go into all the "reasons" why they fail. However, should a Christian marriage end in divorce, it is well to admonish the believer to be extremely careful about future involvements, especially remarriage. Putting God first in our lives means that, in such a situation, we are dating only people who are grounded in their faith and that should we marry again, it be only to another believer who is equally committed to God being the center and Lord of your marriage.

10. As Harley has said, we are all "potential" wayward spouses. Emotional Needs, unmet, are powerful driving forces. Without the anchor of Christ, or with taking our eyes off of Christ, it is easy to succumb to "wrong choices." We ARE human. We HAVE a sin nature. We are not different from Paul who said:

"We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate to do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is not longer myself wo do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; ni, the evil I do not want to do - this is keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God - through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law mighy tbe fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. (Rom.7:21-8:4 NIV)

Believer, there is much more that needs to be said, but you have the same resource that I have. Go to your Scriptures and read. Go directly to God in prayer. He knows your heart is listening for you. God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins when we confess and repent of them, for Christ's sake.

There is, therefore, no condemnation....

God bless you and continue to teach and to use all things in our lives to work for good, in order to bring us closer to Him in our daily walk.

Hi Bob,

I don't think that anyone is immune to some difficult discussion here.We can be just as firm with a BS as a WS.That's the beauty of MB.We don't let anyone get away with poor choices or bad behavior,not from all the knowledge we aquire plus all the experiences we share.We all care about each other here,it's our safe place.

But,I think that once a BS is questioned about their motives/choices and maybe that it wasn't the best choice or even a choice that should never have been made,we get a little protective of each other but it should be ok.If all we are doing is placating everyone here,where's the growth? Isn't that why we have 2x4's? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> We are much more intelligent here than that.

I hold my children accountable for their actions and responsibilities.I hold them to high standards and expectations every day.Not unrealistic ones mind you but ones that I truly beleive are important and make this world a better place.Why would I accept any different from adults?

The difference I see,however,is that the adults around me and that I know are making ever more selfish and greedy choices for the good of oneself than for the good of mankind or family.I would really love to see each and every one of us start to turn the tide on broken marriages and families.We deserve better and more importantly,so do our children.I for one am trying to make a difference by living in a way that I can be proud of and that God would be proud of.

O

Oh for God's sake-you are only human. Do not beat yourself up. So he wants back in? Funny how he comes around when you have moved on-men sennse those things.

I'd just be honest and tell WS-I waited but gave up when you gave me no hope. I am sorry, I've met someone. I'd say, we can talk, but it is going to take a great deal for you to win me back. Put the ball in his court and be honest. He brought this on, now he needs to deal with it. Maybe he won't want to get back together if he knows you were with someone else. WS can be hipocrits. OK for them, but not OK for the BS.

PLEASE...I am pro marriage, but this WS needs to feel the consequences of his actions. God is just-maybe there still is hope for this marriage, but maybe God wants WS to feel the consequenses of his actions.

Believer-you ARE only human. I see very little difference between 22 mo and 24 mo. WS has a great deal to make up for if he wants back in. I'd say your LB for him is at 0. He did this-he pays.

Believer

It does not matter how much we want to ease your pain right now by what we say here, you are the one who is feeling the disress over this.
But know there are a awful lot of people here who care.

I know that those boundaries you created were very important to you and so they should be. Its a measure of self worth and integrity.
But one action which you consider to be a 'mistake' cannot take away what you have foguht for or gained. Remember to put it in context to the peace within yourself.


How are you actually going right now within yourself? Aussie said he dropped in to say hello from work one night and said to keep that chin up girl! I second it.
I do hope you are finding your life good for you & can wish you only happiness.

Believer,

I so admire you and other Mber's here...., I mostly lurk and learn from everyone here, but I wanted to let you know that you are in my prayers, and maybe this is God's answer to your prayers, who knows, God thoughts are not ours, his ways are not our ways, and everything happens for a reason. Maybe the season with your husband is past, maybe not, only God knows. Use this time to pray meditate and quietly listen for Gods voice, he speaks to us, we just need to be still and listen. I know you are adamant (sp), about not wanting to reconcile with your WH, BUT, Be still for a moment and listen....you will find the answer to the question you now have.


A poem for you....

When everything is pleasant and bright
and the things we do turn out just right
We feel without question that God is real
For, when we are happy how good we feel...
but when the tides turn and gone is the song
And misffortunes comes and our plans go wrong
Doubt creeps in and we start to wonder, and our
thooughts about God are torn asunder, for we feel
deserted in time of deep stress.
Without God's presence to assure us and bless...
and it is then when our senses are reeling, we
realize clearly it's faith not feeling....
For it takes great faith to patiently wait, believing God comes not too soon or too late.

Warmest Regards,
HurtinOne

Debate is good but when people start labeling you just because you don't agree that's unfair

You seem to be doing some labeling yourself, Octobergirl. A little self righteousness coming across in your thread.

For example you said:

Only and only until we are actually DIVORCED should we be involved with another man or woman and even then after some introspection and healing.There is absloutely NO justification for Infidelity and there never will be.I don't care how many emotional needs aren't being met.Get D'd FIRST.

I don't agree with that statement, so are you going to label me? I believe it is completely up to the individual to decide for themselves when to get involved with another man or woman. It is not up to what Octobergirl thinks is right for them. Are you going to label me for that view?

And just because some of us are not jumping on the bandwagon of support for believers decision we are getting accused of being judgemental or being bitter

YOU ARE being judgemental. You just don't want to admit it. How about your life? Anything you do that may possibly be against God's word? do you lie? do you cheat? do you gossip? do you worry? do you have a log in your own eye? In my opinion you are coming across as self righteous. You may want to take a quick look at your own life and see if there are any areas for improvement. Let us know your faults, then let us "disagree" with them, and then tell us how you feel...

Keep movin,

It's interesting to me why you are here,on a marriage building site,and are all but advocating Infidelity as a proper choice for if and when anyone feels the need.Is it being judgmental if I am stating the obvious? Do you really believe that there is justification for adultery? I am not being judgmental here.Point out one person to me besides a WS that's in the fog and making excuses that believes adultery is a right choice.You must be joking.

If we want analyze every aspect of each other's lives,I'd be more than happy to go head to head.BUT,we are mainly talking about Infidelity here,adultery,having sex with another man/woman WHILE STILL MARRIED.Even though we know believer has tried her best and is a Godly woman with much care and support for so many and we care about her,it was still wrong to do what she did.I am not labeling you anything if you disagree with me but essentially what you are disagreeing with is this notion of Infidelity being wrong,is that not correct? I don't think this is all about Octobergirl as you suggest.This site is shrouded in the pain and fallout of the destructive nature of cheating and most,if not all agree.Just read,you know it is.

I took the liberty of reading all your past posts,all 9 anyway even though I realize you have been here a long time.I am not sure what made you single out my response but maybe it's that you don't appreciate the truth.We are not talking about a disagreement,say,about politics or about a broader issue such as Child Care.We are talking about an issue that,many times over has been described as the most painful,hurtful and disprespectful decision a person can make against a spouse.

There is not one aspect to adultery that is positive in my opinion.If you would say that perhaps some people wake up and finally see that their marriage was in trouble as an example I have heard here,well,I can certainly think of many other ways in which to get a point across besides such an abhorrent one.

As for my own life,I review it daily and it's become so commonplace for me to "keep myself in check" that this is the way I live now.My family and friends have not one thing bad to say about me or have any grievances because there just aren't any.I don't drink,smoke,cheat,I don't lie and I certainly try to be the best I can be at all times if not most of the time.I try not to let people down and I am always true to my word.The list goes on and this is not a self scripted statement,it is what I have been told by those closest to me,patients I have taken care of and families and friends of my own and other's.

Yes,it is up to every individual to decide for themselves when to get involved with another man or woman,but hopefully it will not be a choice made such as the WS's here that is selfish and painful and above all,not a second before you are divorced first.Why get married if you are going to cheat? And please don't say that people don't plan on it or it just happens.That is nothing but an excuse.If you believe that everyone has a right to get involved with another whenever they please,then why don't you go on a tour and tell this to all the broken families,hurting children and spouses and explain to them why you think so.


O

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by keepmovn4wrd:
<strong>

YOU ARE being judgemental. You just don't want to admit it. How about your life? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is that your judgement?

You do realize that you are violating your own principle with that remark, don't you? It is a self refuting statement.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't agree with that statement, so are you going to label me? I believe it is completely up to the individual to decide for themselves when to get involved with another man or woman.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just as it is up to OctoberGirl to decide what is right and wrong based on her standards. You can't say that all standards are equally valid and then reject HERS in the next breath. That would hypocritical, don't ya think, and destroy your premise as you did above?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Believerrrrr...what a thread you have here....i remember another thread like this...was it eric??? He had gone done something like this and end up getting a lot of responds too.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Just dont let whatever get you down...keep ME update...i want to know whether you are still heading for D or considering talking to WH...take care

Hi everyone. Sheesh, hope we don't get an argument started here.

It has always been my fondest desire to have my husband back. And then for me to betray my vows just a couple of days before he stopped seeing OW is very, very sad.

I always had the self-respect to know that at least I was honoring the marriage. Now that is gone. It was a HUGE mistake. I've been depressed all week.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong>

I always had the self-respect to know that at least I was honoring the marriage. Now that is gone. It was a HUGE mistake. I've been depressed all week. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to knock that off, believer. If God can forgive you, so can you. Don't judge yourself by your mistakes, but by how you handle them. And you have handled this correctly, believer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />