Susan, I think the longer you help him hide his secret, the more entrenched this affair will become. As long as you make it easy for him, he can carry on like this forever. But I think if you make the affair difficult for them, things will start to change. I just don't know what else to tell you.

ML, what would you suggest? I really can't tell people at work, they'll have to find out on their own.

Our neighbors know, at least the ones we care about. His family and my family know. Our church knows he's moved out -- they'e not dumb and have probably put 2+2 together. He's spoken to his work colleagues...don't know if they know there is someone else..don't know how I'd let them know that.

As for OW, her H knows, her parents live with her so I'm sure they suspect if not know about the A.

I'm staying detached, but yet have gotten to the point where I don't worry about whether or not he'll come back to me or whether he loves me.

I think that's what I have to do. That's why my T is saying, after the holidays, send a note or talk to him that if he doesn't go to T, I'll begin the process for D. Its not what I want to do, but he's stuck and not moving.

Anyone else been in this situation? I want to save my M, but I can't continue like this forever. He's been "with" OW since 2/04, ILYB speech 3/04, Moved out 6/04 -- what else can I do but live my own life.....

Susan

<small>[ November 13, 2004, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: ustr ]</small>

Susan, there is a lot more you can do. You have to tell these people, you can't count on the off chance that they might find out.

Tell your pastor and ask for his help. Call up the OWH and start a dialogue with him - tell him they are still in contact and ask if he thinks he can stop contact from that end. Call up her parents and tell them! Tell your coworkers and quit helping the OW cover this up. Expose her, Susan. You can't leave this to chance.

[I wouldn't suggest telling his coworkers, but you can tell close friends]

As far as being detached, is that a sound plan? What was it that attracted him to the OW and led to his disillusionment with the marriage? What need is she meeting that he wasn't getting met at home? What kinds of things could you do to attract him back?

ML...thanks. I'm thinking about a lot of what you said. Gotta get my ducks in a row.

Tonight he called me 3x, 2x at work, "call me if you want to." "Susan, I want to go to your concert." Up then down.

He's so guilty and this Replay stage S**ks. I have a male friend who successfully survived MLC. He offered to talk to my H. A true story and a happy ending. My H has read books, but maybe hearing it from a person who actually understands how H is feeling may help.

Thoughts? Thanks again for keeping in my loop. I really do appreciate it.

Susan

Hello everyone. H and I had dinner last night. Wanted to bounce something off him regarding my friend K and his ML story. K volunteered to talk to H about his ups and downs...H agreed! I was frankly surprised.

H has been saying how tired he is. I said it's b/c all you do is work, work, work.

Also asked (know it was wrong ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ))why he hasn't contacted my T b/c he's asked for the number and has his card which he's been carrying around. H said, I'm procrastinating. Why? Don't know Susan. What are you afraid of? I don't know what to tell you. Typical. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Then H said, what about my T's wife(also a T). My H has only female work friends, no male friends and as a couple we didn't have friends. Always too busy with day to day stuff. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Why do you think he's more comfortable with a W????

Ideas. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Susan

Okay. H is calling my friend to talk. And, I said...I want you to go to T with me. I'm fine going to T'w wife (also MC). Pick a date that works for you consistently, some time you can always commit to and will schedule appts. around.

We'll see.
Susan

Hello everyone. Hold on. Besides the update I left the other day...tomorrow will be our 19th wedding annniversary. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> NEVER thought I'd be here. I had been "planning" to renew our vows on our 20th...now don't know if we'll get there. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

H didn't call today - tonite I have T. Will talk to T about continuing with his wife --both are dedicated to MC. I believe my H wants an even playing field since I've been seeing my T for several months. Hope his wife is just as good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Other than that, I'll be busy tomorrow. Training all day, choir from 7-10. Not sure how I'll react if H calls. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Have a good night everyone.
susan

Okay, I blew it on our anniversary. Too emotional. Started asking Qs I wasn't sure I had the answers for. Asked him, do you want to be with me? His response, I don't know how.

Thoughts?
Susan

<small>[ November 24, 2004, 04:18 AM: Message edited by: ustr ]</small>

Ustr,

Anniversaries are always hard. Don't beat yourself up. You want answers from your H but it is a WS under his skin right now and that character ain't talkin', right?

Given that pix, then you may do well to reverse babble. Take a peek at plan B and think about it.

Have you noticed if your contacts with him usually leave you feeling down instead of up? More frustrated than when you started? If so, think about plan B. It eliminates those feelings because it minimizes contact.

Determine your boundaries and only what you will allow contact for. In my case, I originally had a long list of boundaries but settled on 1 (OW had to be out of MY life). I allowed contact for $$, Mail and child visitation. It wasn't long before the puppy dog was at my door wondering why I wouldn't let him in. Wanted to know if I loved him..... imagine that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

L.

Orchid...thanks, I needed that.

You're right. I've been doing pseudo plan B -- not convincing enough.

Yesterday, said some pretty specific things...do you want to be with her? do you love me? If so, why is she still around? is she getting a divorce [no] -- then what's the point? Should I contact her? her parents? her H (altho he already knows, thought I might update him or he mite update me!) <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Now he's avoiding me. I know, doesn't want to answer qs. My fault. After all, he agreed to talk to my friend about his MLC and go to therapy...why did I push it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You're right, I want answers. It's not logical and I'm very logical -- I want to understand this <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hope I didn't blow it. Thanks for the reverse babble -- sounds like Dobson? I'll need to get my s**t together and be more confident.

Any other suggestions?
Susan

Morning Ustr,

Well you made the mistake of asking me for more info. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Right now you need to know that even if you ask for info, you won't get the truth. He will fog babble to you under the disguise of not wanting to hurt you. Bull hockey!

So you can spend countless amount of time wasted on fog babble or work on yourself, create and strengthen your support group, take care of your family, secure your financial support, identify your boundaries and implement them.

You can't control what the WS does. His actions will soon catch up with him. Realize that it could take days, weeks, months or even years. You can't hold your breathe that long. Neither can you put your life on hold forever.

Stop chasing his tail (that's what happens when they morph into the WS - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ). Work on what you have control over and move forward. That way when he is ready to fix himself, you will be in a stronger position to help him.

Remember he is lying to the OW in order to make himself look good. Often the WS has to make the BS, family and friends look bad to lessen the A guilt. Don't accept that blame. Learn to give it back. In time you will also be able to use his own words against him (a type of reverse babble).

BTW, I like Dr Dobson's book: Love Must be Tough. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

Orchid and others...my WH spoke to my F about my F's battle with MLC, depression and OWs. That was Monday. H hasn't called or talked to me since.

We actually discussed D over the holidays (ugh) and he said things like...
"I don't know how to love you
I'm not ready for you to see other men
If anyone should file for D I want it to be me
I love you S
I'll be alone
I don't want you to hate me"

WHAT!!!!! What the H*LL do I do now? HELP

Susan

^^^^^
I spoke to OW's H yesterday...poor thing, he's up'ed his meds, had to tell his 2 oldest (S14, D11) that "mom and I are having trouble."

OW's parents know...trying to make it difficult for them. He and I are going to meet for coffee...he didn't know my H had moved out...

Will see H tonight at D's concert...have to look great!

Susan

I CAN'T FIND MY EMOTIONAL BALANCE....I'M OBSESSED WITH OW AND HER HAPPINESS WITH MY H. I SEE HER EVRY DAY AT WORK.

I CAN'T TAKE MUCH MORE, I'M LOSING IT. I CRY ALL THE TIME, WORRIED ABOUT FINANCES, HOUSE, KIDS, MY M -- I'M A MESS.

H ISN'T MAKING SENSE AND I'M AFRAID HE'LL D ME B/C HE BELIEVES HE LOVE OW AND THAT IT'S THE RIGHT KIND OF L.

SAID HE'D GO TO MC -- BUT THAT WAS 2 WKS AGO AND HE MAY HAVE CHANGED HIS MIND.

HOW DID YOU ALL DO WITH W/O LOSING YOUR MINDS?????

sUSAN

Okay...recap...
told H Friday that we need to make a move...gave him my wedding ring and said, when you're ready to get rid of her and work on us, you can give me the ring back...

Talked for quite a while, "Susan I love you, don't pack up the rest of my things, my unhappiness has been going on for years (M 19, he cited things from 16 years ago!!!MLC), told you, you didn't listen....."

Let me read the book Relationship Rescue...(which he is).

Told him I don't want D, but it's not fair that the kids and I are in limbo...where do I go from here?
Susan

BUMP^^^^

{{{USTR}}}}
THis just plain sucks, doesn't it? Perhaps I am just the eternal optimist. BUt, to me it sounds like your WH is trying somewhat. If he doesn't want to get a D, and if he says he still loves you, that CAN be a good sign.

I re-read this thread and I noticed that you asked him to commit to T sessions by picking a time that he would ALWAYS be able to keep. IMO, that is a bit unrealistic. Your WH sounds confused. Perhaps one or two sessions that you ask him to go to, at first? That way it won't overwhelm him. You know, that one day at a time approach.

I think you are doing quite well. At least he is talking to you and SAYS that he doesn't know what he wants. That is far more hopeful than "I want a D".

Hang in there, I don't think things are as bad as you feel they are.

I am sure some of the more experienced posters can give you their advice.

Okay everyone...

I just can't seem to find my emotional balance. I know I should be acting as if things are okay, do a 180 or the last resort, but I really can't help feeling that I'm losing and that sends me into a tizzy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

i wrote him a beautiful letter letting him know that I don't want a D and that we should reassess our R and work together to make the M/R what we want it to be.

I just can't stop obsessing about the R. I think about it constantly. I've read more books that B&N have about Rs, depression, MLC, everything. Most I've read at least 2x.

What can I do to get myself back on track and keep from making matters worse?
Susan