I agree with the others KMEJ. Some plan B time is the next step here. You have to find a way to get out of there. Some emotional abuse by a BS can be endured and dealt with in a loving manner. But what you are going through is unbelievable. I suspect that your husband is either involved in another affair or soon will be if things continue they way they are now. I have learned through my readings and the limited IC that I have gone through, that you have to take steps to "affair-proof" your marriage.

There has to be work involved on both sides. Your husband seems to be in denial right now....blaming you for reason that he had the affair. That is rediculous. Although you may have contributed to creating conditions for making it easier for him to do it, you did NOT make the decision to follow through with it. He HAS to accept his responsibility for this and be sorry for what he did. Until he does feel remorse, your marriage will go nowhere fast. Separation from him will open his eyes to what he is missing. If it doesn't, then the marriage never had a chance anyways. I would suggest a complete separation for at least 3 months.

If and when you get to this point(your WH feeling remorse for his actions), let me know. I seem to be stuck there now. My WW feels remorse but can't seem to get past that. She is struggling with forgiving herself and having any energy to give towards working on the marriage. Maybe we can figure it out together if you get to that point.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> I really do not want to leave
I really do not want him to leave
I really want him to go to counseling with me
I want my Husband back
one who does not shut me down when I try to speak and explain my feelings
I want to not have to walk on eggshells around my husband to avoid a conflict or a depressed withdrawn spouse.
I want a H that wants to spend time with me and is pleasent when he is with me.

Maybe I want to much... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It isn't a matter of wanting too much. It's a matter of whether the status quo is likely to get you what you want.

As the poster said above- you can't make him be the person you want him to be. You can only change yourself- and change the way you are doing things. As I said before, for me personally, that would be Plan B.

SCdazed -
I am so sorry for what you are going through, if only you lived in MN I could maybe help you out.

How does one plan B someone who is not in a A and does not feel he is doing anything wrong, and who honestly feels that he is trying? Or at least that is what HE tells me.

KMEJ, I am 100% behind Lemonman on this. MB concepts overall are NOT designed to overcome an abuse situation. Plan A in particular is to be used when a WS is still in contact with the OP. It is my belief that your H is still in contact with the OW but who knows? Either way it's way more than an affair issue at this point so standard MB advice does not apply.

There is a BIG difference between "fog" as defined by MB standards and his behavior given the abuse that you have suffered. Fog behavior on MB generally doesn't cross the line into arrestable offences. Your husband is not only an emotional abuser but also a physical one. According to all domestic violence research this behavior escalates rather than ceases if the abuser does not get professional help. I fear that the more you stand up for your rights in the home, the worse his behavior will become. Are you going to be able to deal with the next episode?

Please take Sadww up on her referral offer. You will need to know your rights if you do decide (and I hope your do.) on Plan B. Have you been in contact with Penny yet? It is very important to follow through with the considerable resourses already given to you KMEJ.

I know you are afraid and not willing to throw in the towel and no one is saying it needs to be right this second, but you must plan ahead here. Talk to an attorney, talk to Penny, get on the links I gave you (EDUCATE yourself!) and most importantly call the cops next time he gets physical with you, "innocent" swirlys included!!!

There have been no consequences so far, he has zero incentive to change. You will only continue to post here with worse and worse stories until some positive action on your part is taken and believe me, it's not Plan A! {{{Hugs}}} KB

Note: Just so there is no misunderstanding, it is my belief that Plan A can be a wonderful MB tool in terms of being short term method of dealing with a wayward. I personally try to keep the Plan A concept as a whole in mind when dealing with daily matters so I guess it's also sort of a lifestyle thing for me. Helps me be a better person blah, blah, blah.

I DO NOT approve of advocating the use of Plan A as a recovery tool in abuse situations because it is actually an abuser's dream come true and places the victim in the postition of taking even MORE personal responsibility for the abusers behavior if they fail at the plan in some way.

Victims feel responsible for every cr*ppy thing the abuser does ANYWAY and if they don't the abuser makes SURE that they DO. Plan B is a much more appropriate MB tool in abuse situations with STRICTLY monitored and enforced rules in effect if recovery is the goal.

Knewbetter I have been waiting for you. Just starting to wonder if you would show up today.

I did contact Penny. I e-mailed her yesterday, and she got back to me. E-mailed her right away this morning and have not heard anything from her today.

I am educating myself.

H did not lay a hand on me yesterday. only does that when I have really pushed him too far on something.

I appriciate all the advice, and believe it or not I have been taking it, well some of it. I plan to think long and hard this weekend about whether to stay in a M where it is one sided and no showing of love. I do not like feeling unwanted and undesired. I am tired of having empty sex and not feeling the connection. Not to mention now that I know my H really wants to have relations with my friend, and wants to pimp me to her H to have it done. NO. I told him such. he thinks I should think about it, I am just not comfortable with it. I shared my H once already, I have no desire to do that again. You know?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> Knewbetter I have been waiting for you. Just starting to wonder if you would show up today.

I did contact Penny. I e-mailed her yesterday, and she got back to me. E-mailed her right away this morning and have not heard anything from her today.

I am educating myself.

H did not lay a hand on me yesterday. only does that when I have really pushed him too far on something.

I appriciate all the advice, and believe it or not I have been taking it, well some of it. I plan to think long and hard this weekend about whether to stay in a M where it is one sided and no showing of love. I do not like feeling unwanted and undesired. I am tired of having empty sex and not feeling the connection. Not to mention now that I know my H really wants to have relations with my friend, and wants to pimp me to her H to have it done. NO. I told him such. he thinks I should think about it, I am just not comfortable with it. I shared my H once already, I have no desire to do that again. You know? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did not realize that your husband had been physically abusive. I am very concerned for you. Please realize that this abuse is not YOUR fault- you said that he only did this when *YOU* pushed him too far. Please do not believe that you are causing him to abuse you. There is NO EXCUSE for physical violence. When I add in the emotional abuse that is clear in your posts...all I can say is that I am very very concerned for you.

Yes I do know. It sounds like things are sinking in a little deeper now for you. Good. You deserve better than you are getting and so do the poor kids. You are in that scary, scary place right now of having your eyes opened to things you don't want to see. You are not the only one to go through this KMEJ...many people don't know that what is being dished out to them is WRONG until it is pointed out to them. Before that they have a sense of *something* being wrong but can't put their finger on it because they don't have the words or they just don't feel they have the right to protest.

MB is about personal growth as well as marital recovery, I think that you are finding this out. I have faith in you KMEJ but I'd like to see you safe first and foremost. I'm in and out of here today but am keeping an eye out for you, don't worry! KB

KMEJ,

I'm sorry, but this is really scary. I would swear you were married to my STBXH if I didn't know better. There are a couple of things I want to say, and they may sound harsh. But they were things that had to be said to me in order for me to wake up to my BH's emotional abuse.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> tells me I am lazy </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Name calling = abuse

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> see I told you you would do this- what happen to changeing and being a better wife if I came back, you pleaded with me, and I see no change </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not taking any responsibility for the condition of the M = abuse

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> my feelings are still there. He said "whatever" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dismissing your feelings, implying you do NOT have a voice in the M = abuse

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> then all of a sudden he was back to being Mr. Nice Guy </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Keeps you 'on the hook' = abuse

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My H is right, I have 3 kids, I am a package deal, no man is ever going to want me again </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Derrogating you = abuse

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> at the begining of the A, H lost his job b/c of it, and blames me for that </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yet again, not taking responsibility for anything, blaming you = abuse

KMEJ - you need to look at things for how they are not necessarily how you wish they could be . It's good to dream - but not if your dreams allow you to live your life in denial about how denigrating the condition of your M is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Not trying to make H out to be this horriable guy, He has good traits too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's face it. Just because someone can be good, nice, sweet, caring, etc sometimes does NOT give them a right to treat you in a derrogatory, insulting, demeaning, disrespectful way.

Why do you want to be with him when he is like this? Why do you not stand up for what you want? Take a good hard look at what you can control - it obviously isn't him.

Finally, why are you allowing yourself to be his victim?

That last part may sting, KMEJ....but I want you to think about it. He is abusing you. He is not treating you with respect. He is holding you responsible for every unhappy thing that happens. He is abusing you. He is abusing you, and you are allowing him.

One of the hardest things for me to face in my R was that I was choosing to be H's victim. I would cry, sob, vent, and talk about how my H did XYZ, and I was trying to understand. I spent countless hours telling people that I was not trying to make him out to be a bad person. I ran around defending him, excusing him, and explaining his behavior. Where did that get me? Depressed, sad, lonely, feeling unloved, not loving myself, and lowering my self esteem.

You have got to get out of this cycle. Do you hear this..... You have got to do it yourself. You can ask for help here, and people will support you. But YOU have to be the one to take action. YOU have to be the one to stand up for yourself. YOU have a right to what you want in M.

Believe me - your wishes are not too high. You deserve to be respected in your M. You deserve to have the right to voice your feelings and have them listened to. You deserve more than what he is giving you.

Is he capable of change? Maybe. But each time you let him 'postpone' that change, or each time you 'allow' this to continue, and don't hold up your boundaries......he will take advantage of you. Why, because he can.

Stop allowing him to abuse you. Do what you need to do - if he won't move out, and you don't want to be there....then find a way for you and your children to move out. It is NOT better to have an abusive father, than no father at all. Your children will carry his behavior with them. They also risk getting into relationships where they themselves are abused - because it's what they have seen.

You don't want one of your children marrying someone who is 'wonderful, caring, loving' but calls them names, controls them, blames them for everything, and disrespects them....do you? It will have more of an impression on them than you think. Trust me.

Please think about these things, KMEJ. Judge yourself by your own actions.....not your own words. And live up to your own standards. You deserve a better M - give him the chance, but it's not M at all costs......

Again the physical part only comes in waves.

The emotional is way more constant.

I am having a hard hard day. I feel lost in a world no longer mine.

If you noticed I changed my signature.

I have a long weekend of thinking ahead of me. Thank goodness I get to work tonight.

I know my H loves me and does not mean to be this way to me. I do not think he even knows that he is doing it. There was no real show of emotion in his home, still is not. Maybe he is doing the best he can. I do not know forsure.

I am leaving for the day soon, but will try to come back over the weekend and keep you posted.

walls closeing in.......... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

The best way to get in to control of this ...

is to realize that while you can not control him or anyone else...you do and must be in control of yourself...

time to take steps and actions that choose out his chaos....

1. you don't go to dinner with a person that calls you lazy and to f--off...
it's not normal
to break bread with someone like that...no matter how normal he attempts to make it appear..

so when he starts calling you names...you don't answer and you dont' power struggle it...

you don't go to dinner...but you don't fight...

"no dear not tonight planning on having _______"
he's more than welcome to take the children without you...unless you believe that is not healthy or dangerous for them.....
and you move on....

Apparently I am the only one standing in the way of "spouse swapping" for a night.

if you are saying that these friends are interested in breaking marital vows...drop them now and today...they are toxic to healthy marriages...

you have to get control of all the little minute things you can....
so that then you can move on to the bigger ones....

children are better off with a man in the house that respects their mother....and vica versa...
your husband is so far off the respect scale...that the damage of exposing them to this all being a normal way for men/fathers/husbands to behave is way more damaging than keeping him in the home than out...

you also need to quit making anymore excuses he is choosing this behavior and these actions...just as we all do...

ARK

KMEJ hang in there...can you get on the phone to someone supportive of YOU?

KMEJ I just noticed that Cherished bumped up her old thread (re?)entitled "For Pepperband" on GQ...if you have some time you should read it. Another person to read is Little Girl. She's mostly on the EN board I believe and she's been posting to Horsey's thread.

A sentence in one of her replies really stood out..... "if it rained on a golf day, it was MY fault" CLASSIC! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Sound familiar?

Edit: I meant Evelyn1957's thread oops!

<small>[ October 29, 2004, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: knewbetter ]</small>

KMEJ, I just want to send you hugs and prayers! In the 9 months I have been on MB I have seen some pretty nasty, fogged out WSs. Your H feels way different to me. There is no doubt he is abusing you emotionally. Apparently you have admitted that he abuses you physically. Honey, this isn't going to get any better. YOU can not help this man, you can only help yourself and your children.

I'm going to tell you a little story that is meant to maybe wake you up a bit. When I started my counseling internship a few years ago, one of my 1st clients was a woman whose children were taken away from her by children's services. She was not Med, and had 2 fathers of her 5 children. She was living with the 2nd father who was abusing her. She did not know how to get out of the R. In fact, didn't know there was anything better out there. The father did something to one of the children and Children's Services took them all away. For months afterwards she continued seeing this man, even though she was mandated not to. Finally she got what she was doing to herself and her kids. By that time the children were so deep in the system no matter what she did, it didn't seem she could do enough to get them back. Our therapy ended and I never found out if she got her kids back.

I'm telling you this because this is serious business for all concerned. Please listen. YOU and your children deserve better than this. CV

The roller coaster continues.

Last night my H was the best I have seen him in months. We both worked last night, and got home about the same time. I had been on my feet since 7am and it was then 11:30, and my second job is serving tables, as most of you know Friday nights are busy, and I had a party of 35 plus 2 more tables (I work at a TGI Fridays- so BUSY), I was exhausted, but hungry, had not eaten since 11:30 that morning. Anyway H picked me up some dinner on the way home (something he rarely thinks about) and was very sweet, waited on me in bed, then let me pick the movie and snuggled with me. He had to work this morning (so do I leaving shortly) but he woke me up an hour before he had to leave because he just wanted sometime with me(with out children <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ). We sat in the Hot Tub and had a long talk, he listened (I think). We covered a few things. It was good.
I am not trying to get my hopes up because it is typically good for a week or two then back down. He must actually realize I am so close to walking away.

Am I falling back in the trap again, or could this be him finally coming back? Lemonman is right, time will tell. However next weekend is Hunting opener, he is always in a good mood before that, so maybe that is it. I don't know.

Should I get my hopes up and keep my guard up?