FIM - you know that we are all cheering for you.

That said, what exact Plan are you in?

It's not Plan B.

More like Plan E - emotional reactions and eager rebuttals.

It's too late to back track and start Plan B over the right way, so I suggest you start now with a real Plan B from this point.

Stay dark and do not answer the phone.

However, you could get in legal hot water by denying your husband access to the kids. I'm not talking what's "right" here, just what an attorney for him could make hay out of. I strongly suggest you not do ANYTHING you could be criticized for by your H - other than not talking to him about your marriage.

WAT

FIM, I think you are doing the right thing. I have one question though...I thought you changed your home number??? how did WH get the new number and better yet, how did the OW get the new number <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I have said before that you and your WH remind me so much of me and dad. I do think that your WH will eventually come around, BUT he wont do it until HE is ready. And by that time, it may be too late for you. You may find yourself better off without him.

Dont put yourself thru the pain of HIS drama anymore...stay dark...dont answer that phone...I KNOW it is sooo hard, but it only hurts you MORE and you get madder when you do answer the phone. Do you have an intermediary? IF not, you really need one. Have all the calls go thru the IM! period!

Keep up the good work FIM!

FIM,

You have always impressed me as the "most likely to succeed" BS that I have seen here in three years on MB.

Much of what you have done has been right on the mark. I'm reluctant to second guess you.

I think you have tremendous leverage on your H - except for the fact that the deployment allowed him to detach from you to a large extent. You may still "win". Sometimes the BS giving up is the thing that really turns the WS around.

But.... I agree with WAT that you really can't (in the long term) prevent your kids communicating with their dad. Further, I would think that in the long run, it would be a bad thing if you could. Right now, he's not a good dad, but he's all the dad they have - and they will need him in some ways. You need to work on a solution for that - to allow them to communicate in a reasonable way without getting you in the middle of it.

Putting it another way, cutting him off from his kids is not going to do anybody any good. It's not going to make him want to come back to you. It's not going to make the kids happy. It might actually backfire and make the kids angry at you. Blocking his access to the kids is only a display of your power - and will likely push the D to happen faster and in an uglier mode.

They can cut their Dad off themselves if they feel like it - and, if they do that spontaneously, it might be a powerful force in your favor. It could be really a downer for him to hear "uh Dad, I'm kinda busy right now, could you call some other day..."

Just my opinion...

Peace to you,

-AD

Good Morning! It is so hard getting the girls motivated for school the day after Halloween!! I'm taking a five minute breather from them!

I really have regretted taking that phone call on Saturday night. But, it's done with. He called twice last night and I didn't answer, so that was better. I'm feeling stronger and stronger about it too.

M23B - The phone number change goes into effect today. I've already tried it and sure enough, it's changed. The message says it's been changed to a non published number. PERFECT. I'm so glad I did this too. Since OW apparently feels it's okay to call my home, I would have done it anyway.

As for the kids, I don't intend to keep them from him forever. In the letter I sent him I told him I didn't want him to contact them until he knows what he is doing. Every time they talk to him they ask when he's coming home, if he still doesn't want a divorce, if he'll be home for Thanksgiving. That is their biggest concern and he is adding to their unease. I just want them to be able to have some stability and he rips that away from them right now. I honestly believe that this will be as healing for them as me right now. As the days have gone by, I have realized that this is truly an issue of abandonment. They don't need that. You don't look at your kids one day and say I'm going to be here and things will be okay and then pack up and leave to meet OW on your way to her home. He's toxic to them right now. He doesn't care what he says as long as he thinks he is keeping everyone, including his kids, happy. That he has to lie and hurt isn't taken into account so long as he feels like he still looks like an okay guy.

BUT, I am going to really think on it today. I want to be sure I'm not making this decision out of spite. I won't hurt the kids to make it easier on me or to hurt him.

Thank you to everyone for the advice and encouragement <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My gut tells me he will be trying to come home within three days or so. Be ready. My gut tells me he is fighting with the OW-maybe fence sitting and just barely realizing that maybe FIM has had enough. He's still confident he can get you back right now, but just starting to get a little worried, esp. when he finds the number changed.

My gut tells me he is starting to panic and is going to run home since you are starting to push him off the fence and he really is not ready to give either of you up-he's thinking of letting the OW go-but only if he has to. Right now, he's got to go home to try and real you back in. This next week is going to be wild. High drama because the OW will be LBing like crazy and giving him ultimatums. He'll be going nuts not knowing what is going on at home and will return to try and gain control.

Faith-you have been on target with your plan. I expect that someting similar will happen within the next week, so start thinking of what you will do when he shows up at home.

Yes-we are all on sugar overload too. I am sure all those little kids walking around yesterday surved as a painful reminder to him of where he should have been. Add to that that he couldn't ease his guilty consience with a phone call to BS the kids. Yep-he's on his way home IMHO-that's why OW called.

My gut tells me that he probably is starting to realize the game's up.

I'm hoping the next week will be easier than it could have been though because he HAS to go to Guatemala on Thursday. This is the second ticket, so if he doesn't, it would just be cruel and over the top to his mom.

He has no excuse this time. He said that last time he couldn't get his passport. He's already told her he has the passport and the ticket. He's given her the flight info and she has told him that if he doesn't come this time it will break her heart. I believe he'll get there this time.

So, the drama and trying to come home should be minimized. I DO see him trying to get his mom to try and talk me into taking him right back. He is probably thinking, right now, that he'll enjoy these days with OW and then go home and get his mom to help with me by saying all the right things.

What he doesn't count on is the fact we have talked daily and she is totally behind this current action plan. She's heard me cry and seen me try.

Leaving him to get himself together and keeping the kids and me okay are the top priority for her and for me.

I wish I was there to hear him trying to pull the wool over his moms eyes though. That little scene would be enjoyable for me to watch.


So, yeah, he is no doubt getting a little freaky down there. I think I've got a good week or so before he has the chance to start being difficult though.

And it's hard to get home when you have no money, no car and the only one who will talk with you is the girlie who you'd have to leave to get to your family.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithinme:
<strong>I wish I was there to hear him trying to pull the wool over his moms eyes though. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you sure his Mom knows how convincing the revisionist history can sound? I know you're smart enough to do this, but I'm just being cautious for you: explain to her that the lies and deceit may be bizarre.

Now, the fact that OW called you is interesting. It's easy to get over-analytical and try to figure out why. But refer to my "bizarre" comment above - it's probably futile to correctly figure these aliens out.

But, speaking of OW, any more news on exposing to her command?

WAT

Hi, FIM.

I have been monitoring your situation from the beginning.

WAT has a very good point about your husband's mom. She may be a smart cookie, and God fearing. I am also sure that the Lord will look out for her. Having said that, you must realize that she is human, and she loves her son.

If he makes it to Guatemala, he will indeed try to enlist her help in getting back with you. At some point in time, she is likely to believe his sincerity. He, in fact, may be sincere at some point.

In order to guard your love for him, and to minimize the potential for further damage of your kids, Please consider the following, or some variation thereof.

List of requirements for returning home.

1) No contact with other woman in any form.

2) Full accountability (phones, whereabouts, passwords, email accounts, etc...)

3) A six month trial period where he lives away from home, but nearby, pays all the bills, gets a local job, is with the family when not working but sleeps elsewhere.

4) At the end of the trial period, the state of the relationship will be assessed by wife and husband as to its condition, and future plans made from there.

My point to you, FIM, is that he needs to earn his way back to the relationship. Just accepting him back into the family might be a huge mistake.

He very obviously has little respect for you or his family, including his mother. In my opinion, if your relationship is ever to recover, he simply must develop a healthy respect for you.

Boundaries are your best friend. Your husband is acting like a child, and in the past, you have 'cleaned up' after him, effectively accepting his messes. At some point in time, he has to stand on his own two feet, even if it means a skinned nose, broken bones or a bruised ego.

Not only does he not respect you, but he has no respect for himself. He has some serious growing up to do, and you can't pick him up the next time he falls down.

I respect what you have accomplished, FIM, and how you have handled yourself. For your sake, and the kids, please erect a fortress with moats and drawbridges to impede his return to previous behaviors.

Let no unproven warrior breach your perimeters.

I wish you all the best,
Gimble

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong> But, speaking of OW, any more news on exposing to her command?

WAT </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm still struggling with the "best" way to do this.

I have learned, through reading his email account, that he has transferred his reserve unit to one in SAT....it's in the same group as OW's. I have a couple of ideas floating on this.

1 - The abandonment issue. Financial support of your family is a pretty big issue with commanders generally. If I send an email asking for information on WH and letting them know I need to know if he is establishing residency there, he would be brought in and counseled..strongly.

2 - Starting with the abondonment, I would need to bring up the living situation with OW. That would bring the whole ugly situation right out into the open. Some of the emails I have from her to him have the names and phone numbers of the people he is currently dealing with. The title on the email is "These are the people who will give you a job honey." Then it goes on to say, "I can't wait until we are finally together." Email dated in June.

3 - I'm strongly leaning towards still waiting until he is out to do this. It should only be a few more weeks. UNLESS he is extended his commitment to work for them on orders. I'm monitoring the email to look for this. It wouldn't surprise me if they don't have the civilian budget to keep him working.

I'm still trying to walk the line between reporting to the CO and keeping myself in a position to get the most out of child and spousal support.

So, that is another thing I am working out right now. I LOVE and DREAM of the thought of busting the two of them. They would be working for the same people right now. Ah. The picture!!

But I have to keep my eye on the finish line. If I was concentrating on saving things right now, maybe the exposure would be the best way to end it at this point. It might be worth the loss of future income to take that chance.

BUT keeping the kids and me in the best possible position is the number one priority right now. Losing that clearance would just be shooting myself in the foot. Still. I just hope he gets out in a few weeks so I can get this done with. If he extends, I'm not sure what I will do with exposure.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Gimble:
<strong> Let no unproven warrior breach your perimeters. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THIS is my new byline! Thank you Gimble.

Well said.

FIM -

Gimble is right, make him earn his way back. As you know, my WH's OW dumped him (I think)and he is communicating with me through letters, but is still very foggy.

I'm planning on making time to talk to him. I was busy with garage sales on Saturday, Dia de los Muertos festival, and making the yard scarey for Halloween yesterday, working all week, a party next Saturday, and on and on.

But one of these days I will get with him. He is no longer one of my priorities.

My advice is to stay dark. Don't make it easy for him. He made the choice to get into this mess, now let him make the choice to get out of it.

I can't help but think this is funny.

WH's cell has been turned off. I know because my phone is actually an add on to his and I went to make a call this afternoon and it's been turned off.

So now, he's in SAT with no car, no money, no kids, no FIM and no phone.

That's got to get old after a while. The little 23 year old OW gets to see a great side of being with this guy who is married and throwing his life down the toilet.

Oh, the perfect life they have <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Not having the cell really doesn't bother me. I'll pay it here in a few days. It just put a smile on my face for some reason.

I think I know why OW called you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

She’s jealous, she sees him torn and nervous for losing control, she’s insecure, they hit reality in their R and we all know how far that could be from fantasies… she suspects he and you are still in contact, she's afraid he'd go back to you…
They talked and he was *****y and moody, then she calls him again and his phone line is busy… With whom he was talking? If oh no not with you??

SO – she calls you to check that, and your line is busy too!… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Now she know… and things between them will go rapidly down… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong> But, speaking of OW, any more news on exposing to her command?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FIM,

I think you need to expose. DH and I both have security cleances... actually cannot go much higher then what we have/had. I have been out much longer and mine is inactive and I can leave the lower 48 without permission... not DH yet.

The worst thing your DH can do is hide his affair/s. It is still a mans military and they could care less who he occasionally "frees his willie" with as long as he is upfront about it. He does now this. It is in everything they tell you and you sign. I have yet to know 1 man who strayed to loose his clearence. Women yes. Clearnces are to hard to get and to costly for Uncle Sam to throw away lightly. The worst they will probly do to him is demote a paygrade, probation, or both. That is if they do anything.

Her? well, she will get a lot more heat. If he was her superior he could get burned either way. They find out without his telling or her going after him for being scorned when he returns home.

If he goes for a civilian job and they find out he will have a higher likelyhood of loosing his clearance. That has been the experiance of DH and I. Not us, just those we know.

She is not in the military for the long hual. If she was she would not be risking her career like this, wether she was active or inactive military.

Go to and talk with a JAG, on a local base. They can tell waht will likely or not likely happen. Do not take your DH word on it. He just wants to keep his little fantasy.

<small>[ November 02, 2004, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: Just_li'l_o_me ]</small>

Hi Faith, just want to say that Gimble & Believer are 100% right. He needs to earn his way back into your life and heart and also that of your children. Then you can decide whether or not he is the man for you.

He may think he can go to see his mum in G and sweet-talk her and tell her he is going to return to you and the kids. That is what the woman wants so dearly and he will want to please his mum. But (and I really am speaking from my experience here, I'm afraid) if he comes back without you laying down the law, you will leave yourself open to contact again. It would be a traversty if he were to raise the hopes of your girls again and then let you all down. He mustn't be allowed to do that. Kids are so forgiving but his behaviour is leaving scars all over their hearts, let alone what he has done to you. No matter how strong you may be, this is physically and emotionally draining.

On discovery, my WH left but was back after 3 weeks. The fantasy was over and the trollop no longer had the same appeal. BUT, stupid me enabled him to continue his contact because I wasn't insistent enough about what I needed to get over the A. He didn't want to hurt OW. It was okay to rip me apart but he couldn't do that to her. So he continued to speak to her. Fast forward 9 months, we never even began to recover and he has moved out to be with her AGAIN. Will it be any different this time - I doubt it. The grass generally is not greener on the other side.

I win the prize. I have 3 beautiful daughters who give me a reason to breathe. I think you feel the same. Your children are giving you courage and determination to do the right thing. Your WH is not a fit father at the moment with his false promises. It is so unforgiveable to betray his daughters. I have the other extreme; mine hasn't called them once. He's gone into Plan B on me and the kids and he doesn't even know about Marriage Builders! How can he not want to talk to his kids <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ?

Anyway, continue your quest and keep strong. TT

Can't believe you are on the second page!

Now it is time to listen to your heart. You know deep down how this is going to work out. You just don't know when. You will have to do some things now to protect the family's finances, and protect the children. But be resolute in that hope that you hold...you KNOW how things will work out, you just don't know when.

Let's look at it logically. What kind of a life will WD (Wayward Dork) have? He has come down to her level. He is starting over, like a young person. That's just GREAT for her, if she was attracted to the strong, older man in him, and now he's acting like a twenty-something. They are going to struggle together. He has left his security. And left his family, ALL OF IT. She has a man who borrows her car and is 1 hour late to pick her up...great catch! Then has no money to put gas in the car...let alone go out to dinner... Then there is the constant nagging worry that he will go home to you. I wonder what she is thinking about the trip to Guatemala, and if she has asked to go along...wonder what he told her?

Youi know in your heart what will happen. Rest on that. Fall back on that knowledge, that knowing, and ignore the talk now...ignore the phone calls and the fogtalk and the THINKING and SPINNING you do....(what if? what if?)

Lay out a plan, work on it a bit each day, and prepare for a new life...

Yes, this new life can include the lost one in it, but not a return to what was, it will be a new M or nothing...

After WH returned it took me a while to put my wedding band back on, then one day I woke up without it, have never found it... for our anniversary last year he surprised me with new bands for both of us. It was a new marriage.

What do you need to change in your life for a marriage to work, either with him, or with someone else? What faults can you work on now while he's away?

Ugh. Strep has hit the FIM house. My oldest daughter has it and I'm just praying that it doesn't decide to make a round through the whole house.

I found out something pretty funny last night. I was talking with my MIL and she told me that on Saturday night, after I hung up on WH, he called her to tell her I wouldn't talk to him or let him talk to the kids. HAHAHAHAHA. He told his mommy on me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

She told him, "I don't blame her." Have I mentioned that I love that woman?

So, I told her about the letter, the conversation with WH, the call on Saturday night from him and OW.

She is just glad he is going down there on Thursday. She's already told me she's not believing anything he says and that he's going to be doing the listening since he can't speak the truth. Yikes.

I just couldn't get over the fact he ONCE AGAIN thought he could go running to her for some sympathy in this. It's got to be pretty lonely for him right now.

BUT, at least he's got OW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I haven't talked with him since that incident on Saturday night. I'm feeling stronger every hour.

I'm feeling more peace too. THANK GOD FOR THAT.

I have decided to keep no contact between him and the kids until he at least gets to Guatemala. I don't intend to open communication with him for quite a while myself, but once he is away from the atmosphere in SAT, I think it will be safer for him to talk with the kids. There is at least some accountability in Guatemala. He isn't being stroked and admired for lying and deceiving his kids there like I'm sure he is in SAT.

From there, we'll have to see. With the kids anyway.

I am a fortress, and no unproven warrior will breach my perimeters! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (I LOVE that, Gimble!)

I don't trust that he will ever be a proven warrior again, so I've got some more fortifying to do.

Strep is going around down here, too. My poor niece was diagnosed ON HALLOWEEN....poor baby. She was gonna be the best Strawberry Shortcake ever, too.

((((FIM and babies))))

Tis the season for it, I guess.

Go get her some lime sherbert. Lime sherbert makes everything better, imo.

Oh, and tell your MIL that I think she rocks!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Niosgirl:
<strong> Strep is going around down here, too. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Just a thought, FIM: if his Mommy takes TOO tough a stand before he gets there, will he decide not to go? Don't underestimate the rationalizing capability of an infidel!

Perhaps your MIL ought to hold her sermon until she sees the whites of his eyes?

Of course, he may be "planning" on being educated by her - to have a ready made excuse for OW and to gain Mommy's support to persuade you into taking him back.........

Strange things go on up in orbit on the Mothership...............

WAT