It is always darkest before the dawn.

Hope you are having a good day. You are doing great-I agree-Mama may be nice, but she is still his Mama-but Mama usually does know best! I think she loves you and wants her son to do the right thing.

Hugs-Jersey Girl

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and input.

This "walk in the dark" is so refreshing for me. Tiring, yet refreshing. Actually, it's not tiring...but I am incredibly tired.

I fell asleep on the couch at 7:30 last night with the baby. I NEVER fall asleep before the kids, ever. I remember asking them to keep it down while they were talking too...but like I was out of myself. Weird.

I think now that I have some peace and am not obsessing about every phone call being from WH, or what he's doing, or where he's going to be, or what I can do, that I am coming off an adrenaline high. It's been almost six months now since he first told me he wanted a divorce.

This is the first time...these last 5 days...that nearly every waking thought hasn't been about what to do with HIM to save this marriage.

I'm thinking about the kids and me FIRST...ONLY. What a relief!!

I don't know what he's doing, where he is, what he has, where his next meal is coming from (although I can darn well guess!) and I am okay with that. I'm not taking care of him. I'm not worrying or planning for him or us....but for me and my kids.

There is a freedom in it that I NEVER expected. It's something I certainly never felt before he came home after the deployment.

I feel empowered for making decisions to benefit ME. I feel strong for being able to say "I did everything I could to light the way home". I feel right in walking away and leaving him to live with the scraps of happiness and content he will find without me.

Me being me, I can't wait to make things better...without him. I ALLOWED him to feel secure in his ability to fence sit and cake eat. I allowed that. I'm okay with every step I took because it was for a good reason.

When he opens his eyes and sees his life for what it is, it will be largely because I took away his ability to rewrite our history. He has seen a path to a better marriage, he has looked into our relationship enough to know there could have been a wonderful future. The marriage he let himself believe he had to justify his A was shown to be a fantasy...one that had never been. When he was here with me he was with a woman who was willing to look at herself and her own failings and one who was willing and eager to stand with him to better herself and her marriage.

I'm still here, looking at myself. I'm still here, remaking myself.

And I am a damn good catch. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

He knows that too. I like that. That's why he wants to sit on that fence.

So, I'm okay with having waited for him to come out of his fog. I'm glad I walked that road with him so he could see what he could have.

And I'm glad I have left him with the vision of what he could-a, should-a, would-a had.

I'm a better person for having walked that walk. I would have never been able to say I did everything I could unless I did.

I feel empowered by having done a PLAN A I am proud of.

There is hope in me that one day he will look at the shell of a man he has allowed himself to become. I wouldn't be friends with, let alone be in love with, this man. Should he find a fragment of that man and a way to recover from the addiction of self-indulgence and gratification, I hope he has the strength to face his own demons.

If and when that day comes, I would want to see what could be rebuilt of our marriage. But not before he finds that man and recovers that man and is able to walk forward MORE than that man was.

I NEVER discount miracles or the power of a person to change. I've done it myself. I hate to think of where I would be if people hadn't been able to accept change when it truly happens.

But while I never discount it, I don't rely on it happening.

So, I guess the point of this big 'ol post is that I feel really good about where I am. I'm tired and coming off of a HUGE emotional rollercoaster. I like it right here, right now.

I know I am going to be okay. I know I can do it. I know there will be a wonderful outcome and future for me and my children.

I don't know if it will include WH. I don't know if he'll ever be a man I want my children to look up to or one to stand beside me. I do have a spark of hope that one day it will happen. But I'm not standing here waiting for him to join me. He'll have to see if he can catch up later.

Regardless, I have a great life ahead of me though. I love that.

I have a few thoughts:

When he does contact you, do not argue. Refuse to discuss anything but the children's welfare, or business/financial issues.

No relationship talks. No apologies. No recriminations. Nada.

If he really wants back in to FIM's world, he'll have to ~become and live~ the part of the proven warrior .... a hero for your heart.

Do not (please please) give in to the desire to teach or preach when he does contact you ... remain unreadable ... a mysrtery.

Strength and courage

Pep

Stay strong FIM, it gets easier all the time, no matter how things go. There will definitely be down times but you now know you will get through those times just fine. Things turn out as they should, keep your faith, whatever that may be.

Thanks again for the advice and encouragement.

Pep - I am taking that advice! I don't anticipate talking to him soon, but when I do, I will take that advice.

WAT - For the most part, my MIL is taking a light stance on things with WH until he gets there. The other night, when he was whining about me not answering, she told him she doesn't blame me, but other than that, she's trying to keep it light to make sure he gets there. She has surprised me throughout this with her strategies. There is so much more to her than I had ever expected.

She told me today that she plans on believing nothing of what he has to say for the first few days and seeing where he goes from there. I thought I would maybe mention to her that he won't be forthcoming with honesty, but she seems to be on board with that. LOVE HER. I will watch for a change in her though. Who knows what the alien may try to convince her of.

So, I'm off to do dishes. Oh, joy! What fun. Just one day, I would love for there to be no dishes, no laundry, no work, no snot or sore throats, no arguing or fighting or whining or crying.

Of course, if I didn't have those, I'd probably be wishing for something to do!!! Or, I'd be WH, with no spouse, no kids and no home. I guess I'll quit my whining and go be glad I've got three great kids to clean up after.

Sappy....I'm getting sappy!! Time to clean:)

Ugh. Why is it always the weird things that get to you?

I was watching this new show, Nanny 911. First of all, I'm not a tv person. I can't believe I was even watching it to begin with. About 6 years ago we got rid of our tv...totally. After a year or so we did get a small tv to watch movies on and then about 2 years ago we bought a larger tv for the tv room. It was NEVER watched though while WH was deployed. The kids and I would cuddle up and watch a movie on the laptop in my bed, but that's about it.

After WH came home though, the big tv was moved to the living room and hooked up to the DVD, Playstation2 and XBox.

ANYWAY, that was way off topic. At the end of this show the couple had a 10 year anniversary party.

And it hit me...I never even went out to dinner for my 10th anniversary this last March. WH was deployed and I didn't get a call. I let it go figuring he was really busy.

Well, he was. But with OW.

I just started crying. I've seen the pictures of them, heard the stories, read the emails. I've felt the withdrawal and watched him drive away.

Yet seeing another couple celebrate their anniversary brought me to tears.

I WANTED THAT TO BE ME! We were supposed to go to Ireland for our ten year. I didn't mind sacraficing that for his service.

But I do mind sacraficing that and all my other lost anniversaries. I was at home that night making dinner for our girls and nursing our two month old baby.

Why is it that loss, not having an anniversary to celebrate, that makes me mourn?

Considering everything else I have seen and felt, why that 60 second t.v. spot has affected me, I don't understand.

I guess that's just part of it. You can't understand or control everything. Maybe it's the simple randomness. I can anticipate where most of the blows will come from and prepare and protect.

That little reminder, that loss, I wasn't prepared to look at. Not at that moment.

Hmmm. I want something to celebrate. Someone to celebrate with. I know I will again. I don't doubt that. Can I just fast forward a few years though? Please.

Can I just go to sleep and wake up in the middle of a grand new life?

I know I can't. In the end I would miss out on so much if I did.

But I do know now why I don't miss that damn tv. I should have just been sitting down reading a good book. Or cleaning. I'm not done with that yet.

I'm going to go with the book though since it requires less energy. I'm going to read and forget about the darn anniversary thing and regroup.

I still like where I am at right now compared with a week ago. I'm stronger and I have a plan laid out for my children and me. I'll get to that anniversary...sooner or later. And next time I do, I won't be making the kids dinner by myself.

Okay, feeling better now. I just needed to breathe, write and get it out.

I think the other little princess of mine is getting strep now. She's got a red throat, unsettled tummy and was just lying around tonight. I really hope the baby and I don't get it.

Faith-that is a trigger. When you are reminded of an event that took place during the affair, songs, trips and photos. It just brings the feelings that we can normally contain right to the surface. This still occasionally happens to me 4 years out.

I was thinking faith-this A stuff just stinks for the BS. I think he will come around-no-I know he will, but let me just share something very intimate with you (yes here on this public forum). Even if you do get back together, there will still be those feelings and triggers. You do move on, but they do surface from time to time.

When my H is distant from me, I wonder if there is a new OW, did the old OW contact him or did he run into a friend of hers. It just doesn't go away unless the WS is actively open, and mine never was after the inital recovery period of 6 mo to a year. He and I just don't talk about it anymore, and I think that is a set up for future problems, but there is nothing I can do with him, only myself.

I am here for now, but I do not know what the future will bring, and I think many BSs feel like I do. The lucky ones are both posting here. The one thing I did wrong was just get on with life too quickly. I didn't make him work hard enough to come home and I regret that because although all is good, I think that a tougher approach would have been more comforting to ME. That in the future I would not have been as concerned because the ground rules would have been set in stone, but in my case the affair was on, he was leaving, then he was back and she was gone. All in less than two weeks. I was in a state of shock and not as knowledgeable as I am now. I should have made it clear that he had to do more work on the marriage. Maybe that will be helpful to you, esp since it is affair #2.

Yep, trigger.

And the fun just keeps coming <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

My H was having sex with OW when we were supposed to be celebrating my B-day. I didn't mind him having to be away [again, military] but I must say..that was the sh*ttiest birthday gift ever.

--Noodle

Oh yea? I can top that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My WS was spending time with OM - pallbearer for our deceased son - on the first anniversary of his death.

WAT

You Win..erm..well..YOU LOSE MORE..

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
--Noodle

Yuck! My H was doing his thang....while I was in the hospital hemoraging after the birth of our son. I couldn't find him....and I almost died. I was very scared and very alone.

Yep - none of it's nice. Hopefully FIM will find the strength and encouragement here that others have found.

Let's return this thread to her.

WAT

You have worked VERY hard and given an excellent Plan A, now it is time for Plan B. Please don't give up entirely without at least giving hte plan a chance.

What is vital at this time is a Plan B letter. A path home, that he decides whether he takes or not. Without the letter he can blame you for being distant (I know, foggy logic). This puts the burden of work on HIS shoulders, it then becomes HIS decision whether to change or not.

Can you get MIL the letter to give to him?

You can lay out boundaries, rules about contact.

The letter can be critical at this time because the WS often digs such a deep hole and doesn't know how to get out. The letter is a path out.

After the letter is given though, be very strong about sticking with the guidelines you set out. It was a month before I would let my H come back home, after the NC letter was sent and he could prove there was NC, after he started IC, and sought medication (the honesty and accountability is continual).

This can be a very peaceful time, this is the time to protect the love you still have.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> no snot </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah. The day there is no snot or dishes or homework or someone needing to be bathed is the day you and I both fall down in a coma because neither one of of us would know how to act.

Thought I'd throw that in for a giggle. You and I both know we'd miss the snot....maybe not at first, but we would.

Snot free hugs to you my sister!

Right now I am picturing a small older lady beating the snot out of a lost lovable dork lost in the fog. Hope she has a 2X4. God bless Faith. I am saying a prayer.

What's the latest? Did he make it home?

Thinking about you!

WHAT AN IDIOT!!!!

That would be WH/STBXH. He's just such an idiot.

Well, he DID actually make it to Guatemala on Thursday. I was at a conference for work, but when I got back I found out that he had called there while I was out. I thought that a bit odd since I hadn't talked with him since that 2 minute call on Saturday. So, I shrugged it off.

Well, he called after I got back too and I answered the phone, not knowing who it was. He said he got there and had been trying to call and had been SO worried since he hadn't been able to contact us with his cell turned off and the home number changed.

Whatever! He was worried because HE wasn't in control and picturing us sitting around waiting for his call. WHAT? They can live without hearing from me? Blah.

Anyway, he started going on about me keeping the kids from him and that not being for to him or them. Blah, blah.

I asked him when he might be able to send some money for the bills. He went back to talking with us. I asked about the bill, he went back to us. Back and forth. Finally, I just said, "As I said in the letter, once you are able to let the kids know what your plans are, you can talk with them. Right now, your choices hurt them and talking with you or expecting your calls puts stress on them. Figure yourself out and then call them."

In the end, he agreed to not talk about anything with them except to ask about their days and I agreed to let him talk with them while he is in Guatemala.

So, he's been calling and talking with them. When I answer the phone he says how much he misses me and loves me and that he has realized he would rather be "talked at" by me than not talk with me at all.

Am I supposed to jump for joy over that? Was it a compliment? Hmmm..my heart didn't go pitter-patter. Is something wrong with me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Dork.

Anyway, my reply to the I love you's and I miss you is "Thank you". Then, back to finances.

He says, "I really want to be able to talk with you". I say, "Thank you. When do you think your first paycheck will come?"

"FIM, I never realized how much I would miss you." I say, "Thank you. The cell phone bill arrived."

So, this has been going on since Thursday. I've talked with his mom twice and he's got her convinced he was just so distraught when he couldn't talk with me. She thinks that's a good sign. I think it's his arrogance and need for adoration from both of us. But, I didn't tell her that.

Anyway, yesterday he calls and tells me that while his plan is STILL to go back to San Antonio for this "job", he is going to find a way to come back for Thanksgiving and wants us to go away for at least a night to the ocean.

I mentioned that I thought that would be a little tacky since we will be in the process of a divorce at that time. He says, "We don't have to be."

I asked if he was still planning on going to San Antonio or if he was ready to go to marriage counseling with Steve, agree to NC, come back here after Guatemala and commit himself 100% for the rest of his life to rebuilding a great marriage.

No. He's about 60% sure he wants to stay married to me now though.

Again, was I supposed to get all soft inside over that one? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

At that point, I turned the phone over to the kids. Before I got off though he said "Just think about it. I really want to spend time with just the two of us. Really. Take some time and think about it. We've got some time before you need to decide."

I swear. This man is so far gone with delusions of grandeur about himself that he can't even THINK straight!

After that call, I got stupid. Or started to. What is it that makes a person WANT to believe another so much?

I started saying to myself, "What if he means it? What if what he REALLY needs is to talk with me everyday and see what he is missing? Maybe I should just agree to a little weekend trip for us?"

Good thing I smacked myself there. I decided to call OW. I, in my great wisdom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> thought that if he REALLY had broken up with her like he said, maybe he is just a confused Dork right now.

Interesting talk. We talked for about an hour. As it turns out he never told her he dismissed the divorce.

I had wondered how he was getting around this one. He told her that he showed up but there was a "paperwork" glitch and the judge wouldn't sign it without both of us there.

He didn't say he was confused or reconsidering. He told her he TRIED to divorce me but couldn't.

That notion has been dismissed from her little head. I even politely offered to fax her the form he signed the day before he left.

I told her that the night he called to break up with her, I was standing right there because I was leaving him and he said he wanted to do it there to show me he was ready to commit to me.

I let her know he met with our priest and signed the order for dismissal of the divorce in front of him as he told him how much he wanted his family.

I told her he had asked the kids to burn the papers, took us all out for a celebration dinner and we all went as a family to the courthouse to have the commissioner sign the papers.

I also told her that he told me she wouldn't stop calling after the call to break up with her, he changed the cell phone to make sure she couldn't call, he told her to not get on the plane to meet him because he wasn't going to see her and that his plan was to go to SAT, not see her and come home as soon as possible.

I was soft-spoken, polite and told her upfront that the reason I called was because he had been trying to talk me out of going forward with a divorce but I had a feeling he was trying to play both of us.

She agreed. She hardly said anything the whole time. But she listened. And she was pissed. And I believe she knew I was telling the truth.

I mentioned that I believed he was spending the evenings with her because he would call me all day, but the calls would stop and he wouldn't answer his phone after five o'clock. And that he kept giving excuses like rain or a bad battery for not calling at night.

I told her that when he was here he would keep his phone in his pocket with the ringer off so I wouldn't know when she was calling. I asked her if he did the same there. She said yes.

So, in the end, I told her I wasn't calling her or telling her this to hurt her. If it did, I couldn't say I was sorry for that, but the fact is that he seems to be lying to both of us. I needed to know if he was finally telling the truth and that is why I called.

I thanked her for talking with me and even wished her well. Well, I wished her well after saying I hoped I never needed to speak to her again in my life and in that hope, I wish her well.

Now, she may decide to not believe me, but I said enough that she is damn well going to wonder. Enough of what was said contridicted what he had to say and made MUCH more sense than the stories he was telling her. I even admitted to her that the reason I needed to hear from her was because he sounds SO sincere and I WANT to believe him so much. And because I understand that desire to believe, I would be willing to show her the dismissal. Because I've been WANTING to believe him for so long and I know what it is like to battle your gut feeling and common sense I would give her any information she wanted.

She said she didn't need any.

After I talked with her, I called him back. I told him I called her and what I found out about what he told her about the divorce. I told him that was a slap in the face to tell me he is coming home and loves me and wants to be with me but needed time to think. And all the while, he is telling OW he TRIED to divorce me but couldn't.

He was pretty stunned. He didn't even ask what all I told her, but I'll bet he didn't sleep well last night once he started thinking about it.

He said that he had lied about all of those things but it was because he was avoiding telling her the truth. Because he is confused about what he really wants.

But, FIM, why would I tell you I wanted us to be together for the weekend at Thanksgiving if it wasn't true?

Yes. Those words ACTUALLY came out of his mouth.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I told him that things just didn't add up. He's 60% sure of me, but allowing OW to believe he's 100% sure of her. 160% doesn't fly, so I was going to do him a favor. Since the best answer is usually the most obvious, I would go ahead take the 60 away and leave him with the 100 with OW. Viola! Equation done.

He asked me what I wanted. What could he do?

I told him I'm filing for divorce on Monday. He'd need to think about that himself. I know that for there to EVER be a chance he can't go back to SAT and he needs to get himself together first. He can't come back to live here, in our home right now. So, he'd need to figure out something. But if he wants to save our marriage he's a smart man and can figure it out. I reiterated that there is NOTHING that can be done while he is in contact with OW and planning on working anywhere else. So, NC, not going back to SAT, and finding a way to rebuild trust were the answer.

This isn't going the way I wanted. At all. Only I had control of that. I allowed it to get here. BUT, I'm glad I talked with her. I'm glad to know JUST HOW deceitful he is right now, to us all.

And I'm glad he knows we have talked. I had been afraid of upsetting him before if I tried to find out. Now, I just don't care.

I was telling a friend last night that before my focus was saving my marriage and that is all I would allow myself to consider as an outcome, but in the back of my mind I knew there was a slight chance of divorce.

Now, my focus is on making my children and myself safe and happy. That does not include WH anymore. When I plan for the next six months, he is not there anymore. In the back of my mind, I believe there is a slight chance of recovery. But it's not on my radar or in my plans.

I look back and there are so many things I could have done different. I have made plenty of mistakes, especially after the active PLAN A part.

BUT, through it all, I have done what I thought, at least at the moment was best. I have loved him, been patient, been the light.

In all honesty, I'm tired of it. I want to be the weak one. I want to be the one pulled back. I want to sit back with a man who WANTS to be with ME more than anyone else in the world. I want to trust that man.

I have tried with everything I have to save this marriage. I'm tired of lies and wondering. I'm sick of worrying and I'm actually sick of hoping.

Faith. Hope. Love. I'm tired of them all right now.

Maybe this is my own FIM pity party. But I am going to sit back and be a strong FIM. I'm going to be a strong mom. I'm done being the strong wife.

Maybe I am called to not give up. I SHOULD stand through better or worse. I made that vow and I try to honor my vows. This is certainly the "worse" part. But I just can't do it anymore.

A part of me will always be shamed that I'm not standing through the worse, that I am making a very deliberate choice to put down my sword and not fight.

But a part will always be proud that I stood this long too.

That's something that only time will be able to even out I guess.

Wow. I just looked this over and noticed how long it is. I guess I had a lot to get out.

If you've read this all the way through.......WOW.

I didn't mean for it to be the "poor me" thread I feel like it turned into. I made my choices. Every one of them. Whatever I have gone through, done, or caused by my actions is mine. But dang it. It should have been different. Maybe I haven't done things perfectly, but it should have ended differently nonetheless.

Ugh. I'm going to go to church and take the kids down to the park today. WH is calling them tonight. STBXH is calling them tonight. Dork.

Faith -

We all long for someone that wants to be with us, and only us. I decided a long time ago that I'm not a jailer. If WH wants to be with OW, fine. I moved on with my life and am happy without him.

Now he and OW might be breaking up, but it is a little too late for me.

I suggest you put your WH on the back burner for awhile, and go on with your life. I have no doubt he WILL come back to you, but why be miserable in the meantime.

Also check out the Idiotville thread when you get tired of being serious, and fighting for your marriage. It is just a bunch of stupid stuff, makes no sense at all. But it is a welcome relief from the effort of trying so hard all of the time.

FiM,

Lady, you did a near-perfect Plan A, better than anyone I've ever seen here pull off. Had you not done that incredible Plan A, your WH would still be swimming in the thickest of fogs, believing his own lies. At least now, if he chooses OW, it will be with his eyes wide open that he is choosing to destroy his family, a family that could have been loving and happy. May I say it?

DORK!

I stand behind you 1000% to file on Monday. I hate divorce. I know you do, too. But I don't see how you could be expected to hang on one more minute. He's holding out the fig leaf of a romantic, healing overnighter on the beach after spending a holiday with his family... Puh-Lease! All the while he's planning on going back to SAT and being with her, probably to decide if she can expand her percentages in his heart.

I almost feel sorry for him. Well, actually, I do. He'll wake up one day in the next few months but his family will be out of reach. That is just so sad.

I'm with you FiM. I'm praying for you and the three babies for the peace of God to overshadow you all in the days to come.

~ Snow

I support you calling her... it's something I would have done a long time ago.
Not to hurt OW.
Not to hurt Dork.
But to shine a spotlight on ~the facts~....


I do not function very well without the facts... and I feel the same holds true for you FIM.

I can often make excellent decisions once I am filled in with the facts.

Pep

<small>[ November 07, 2004, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>