What a mess. My WH came to visit us yesterday. He absolutly Loathes me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> He told me he is dating. He told me how much fun he is having without me. How much fun he has with everyone but me.
I can't stop crying. I know he is in a fog. I know that what he is saying is not the truth. But, Oh it hurts. It is worse than being stabbed through the heart. I tried so hard not to LB. I used reverse fog babble. I could not even sit on the same couch without him moving away. I DID not do anything to him.

I am broken. I have to stay strong for our DD. I have to tell her tonight with him here how he feels about "us" and that he wants a dvorce. I plan on fighting this. I am still planning to move to the same city. But,please everyone say prayers for us. I don't know how to get through the next day.

<small>[ October 30, 2004, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: fightingalone-again ]</small>

fightingalone again,

This is the post I made on the day after my WH came home after coming home from his year long deployment. My guess is that some of what he said will sound familiar. They tend to sound the same. I know this won't make things better, but it helped me to realize that what he was saying is so TYPICAL. He's not special in this...only like thousands of other unfaithful spouses. Ordinary.

You and I happen to have started in similar situations. Below is a link to my first thread here. It's REALLY long, but the beginning might be familiar and helpful for you.

the faithinme story

************************************************


Hello. Well, WH is home. It has been a hard 24 hours though. When we met him at the airport there was nothing, no hello or even a quick kiss. He did pay a lot of attention to the kids though. On the way home is was short and rude to me (kids were sleeping). When we got home I started making dinner while he played with the kids and walked around looking at the house as if he was taking inventory.

I had been nice and accomodating with no LB's since we picked him up but I was reaching my end point so I went to see a movie. I just told him that I thought it would be nice if he and the kids had some time by themselves so I was going to a movie after dinner and would see him later. He was a little shocked but said okay.

When I came home, they were still watching movies so I went down and kissed the kids goodnight and told him the same and went to bed. I woke up at 4 am by myself and found that he and the kids had a slumber party in D's room.

Then this morning I got up and ready for work, made breakfast and went up to see him. I just asked, point blank, what his intentions were. Not about our relationship, but if he was staying with us or somewhere else and if he was still willing to try. After a lot of running around the subject he says that he is planning on staying at the house, not working on things and has accepted a job in San Antonio with OW and will be leaving Sept. 15th instead of mid October. He has no desire to try because he is totally in love with OW, feels more comfortable with her than he ever has with me, really understands what he has been missing all this time, and is in too much pain being away from her even this long. Apparently, he always knew I wasn't the one, but felt that someday I could maybe be the one. Now that he has OW though, he doesn't need anyone else to fill anything. He doesn't need "guy" time or friend time, he just needs her. I couldn't have gotten through this without a total cry-fest if I wasn't thinking FOG FOG FOG to myself. I do believe he has feelings for her but it is such a fantasy he is living in! He told me that when they were deployed together they were never separated. Even being away from each other to work was so difficult and painful. How the heck do they plan to live?

I think he will probably end up going down there to be with her. Although by the end of our conversation he did say he would go to MC and if something good happens he won't ignore it (blah, blah) I expect that he's just saying that to keep me appeased until he goes. I'm just going with PLAN A and trying not to LB. Time will tell I guess.

Apparently her parents weren't too excited when they found out about this A. WH told me today he has to call to apologize to them for being "harrassed" (by one call?). He thinks I should be upset that now he may have an uphill battle should he ever meet them. Yeah...I holding back the tears on that one!

Anyway, I'm going home soon. It's my birthday! and the kids are making a surprise for me. Scary! and sweet.

<small>[ October 30, 2004, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: faithinme ]</small>

NO relationship talk...

when is he visiting next...
how long will he stay.....

you MUST get yourself together...
look smashing...
smell awesome....

meet him at the door...say...

Oh good you are here....!!

I gotta go...I'm a running late...

(insert peppers flirty hair flip here)...((not melodys...her's is too big to flip without knocking her over.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ha ha ha..sorry mel could NOT resist....(the yank that I am...)

leave smiling...flushed and excited to be going somewhere.......
leave happy...

come back even happier...

announce you are home...
"hope you had a good visit....
you can go now..."
We WILL be fine..."

ark

FIM. It is so close to what happened when WH came home. BUT, I don't think there was OW then. Now, he is pretty distant. The stuff they both said was pretty close. OMG he compared me to his ex GF who deliberately got pregnant and stole HIS money. Really she did. But, me steal his money to pay the bills? He did apologize for that today while I was driving him back to the ferry. He said I was always controlling and never listened to him. HUH? He is not around so I make decisions without his input and that is controlling? And, when he is/was here, his desires were sometimes so away from the reality of our lives that I could not go along with his wishes simply because he wanted me to.

ARK: I plan to follow your advice somewhat. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But, he is away for a 3 week deployment to San Diego. So, when he comes back. DD and I will go over there to visit.

Yesterday was a nightmare for both of us. We had to see his Grandmother who went from a fantastic strong person to someone who doesn't recognize anyone. And after the things he said and told me Friday night, I could barely function. Then when we got back, I asked him to tell DD what his plans are. But, he avoided saying it. So, I told her that he loved her very much but that he didn't think that he loved me anymore. And, that he was dating other people. (I regret saying that.) She just walked out and went into her room. While I sobeed on the couch. WH went in there to talk to her but she wouldn't speak to him.

So, he got his coat and wanted to leave "because everything had been said". I again told him that I could feel his pain and that I would do anything to make it better for not just him but us. Anything but break up the family.

I know that the advice is to leave things alone. BUt, I know WH sometime better than he know himself. He avoids examining things or even WHY he feels the way he does or acts the way he does, I push and then he will listen - sometimes.

I digress. Anyway, then I asked him to please not do anything to proceed towards a divorce. I begged him. Sigh. I asked him to go into family counselling. And, if things were still the same after all that, I would then feel that the marriage was over and we could both move on. He sat and thought about it and then said "you win, I'll try."

I thanked him for reconsidering. It is the NOT trying that hurts so much. If we try as hard as we can to make things better, I can accept any outcome. I wouldn't be happy if we split, but I could accept it. THen we talked to DD together about the counselling and that he would try to make things work. Me too!

Last night we filled out the EN questionnarie and the recreational one as well. Today on the way to the ferry, we BOTH decided that to fulfill some of our needs, that we would plan 2 events on the weekend. One for the family and the other for just the two of us. I will plan one and he plan the other. Then the next weekend we would swap the planning. I think this is a good idea because I usually end up planning what we do because he visits. However, this way he is more involved with the decisions and perhaps he can learn t ofeel better about himself.

WHich is something else he brought up. His self-esteem is sooooo low. He said he feels guilty for not providing everything that I want. He feels like a failure. (My first H was wealthy) He feels soooo guilty for failing our marriage. The money I could care less about. Sure I would love to have more. But, compared to a good marriage, it is low on my priorities. And I again yried to reassure him that I did not see him as a failure and he acknowledged that it was not what I did, it was he expected of himeself. As far as the marriage, we both contributed to the problems and all I really want from him is his love and his trust. I could go on and on about how he doesn't think I love him. I think it is possible that this whole mess might be a test to see what I will do to save the marriage. Because after he agreed to try again, he actually smiled for the first time in a month. And we had a really good talk this morning that he initiated not me. And that is a huge step for him.

Okay enough for now. I thank all the contributors to this forum for saving my sanity and my life. If I hadn't come back to this place, I would have surely floundered and likely sunk not only me but our marriage.

I do know there is a long, long hard struggle and there are no guarantees. But, I have the tiniest flicker of hope now. We will see, though how things go while he is at sea.

BLECH! I just want to get this house sold and move back to his city.

Well, it is Monday morning. He is off to sea for 3 weeks. I have a meeting with my IC. I have so many things to talk about with him.

ARK. DD and I are going to visit him in 3 weeks. We will be there the night before he gets in. That way I can do some snooping. We are staying in the same house where he is. I will stay in his room. Going to go through everything to make sure there are no more surprises.

I talked to DD last night and asked if she wanted to call him to say goodbye before he left. She refused and said she was REALLY mad at him for the dating. And she won't talk to him. I will ask the IC how to respond to that. I think she should email WF and tell him that. But I didn't push her. Any thoughts?

He has agreed to plan either a family activity, or one for the 2 of us, to take place every time we are together. I really think that is a HUGE step for him. It should give him some feeling of control. I hope. I have heard a lot about lack of self-esteem on this board. And I do think it plays a part in this case. Even though I love him to death, I don't think he feels it. And/or feels he deserves it. He told me that I was crazy to keep trying. He said he knew that my firneds and family must be telling me to lose him. Well, that is not so. See the mixed messages? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I am unlovable so I will act that way and push you away. BUT, I will try to fix things if YOU keep trying.

Now, I am 99% sure that if he is involved with OW, it is not a PA at this point. For a number of reasons. Right now his SF is pretty low because of his guilt and stuff. He could go for months, and has, while away at sea. And, I think given his first EA, when he did have the opportunity for a PA as well, his honour would not let him.

IF it was physical, we would likely not be having this conversation. That is MY personal boundary. But you never know.

Aww. I am going to get ready for work and take DD to school then go to IC.

Well, I can answer at least one of those questions maybe.

The issue with low self-esteem, it does effect everything. Every situation. It's not something that can be worked around. It's different for each person, varying levels etc.
I think the most important thing in dealing with someone with it, is to listen to them always when they speak, and to let them know, one way or another, that you value what they have to say.

Hey TTSi. How is it with you?

Yes, I know. Lack of self-esteem is bad. And this is really sucking me into that same dark void. I usually have no problem with feeling pretty good about myself. But, I am starting to doubt myself. And that can lead to a very bad place.

I am VERY tired of being the "strong" one. Me fighting for us. Me fighting for him. But (epiphany) it is all about me, isn't it? I know I don't have to go through this. I choose to. I see his pain. I love him. And that knowledge and feeling fights with how devastated I feel at his callousness and his evil and cruel words.

I SOOOOO want to smack him upside his head to whack some sense into him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I won't, but that thought keeps me going on some days.

I don't recognize the man I married. On another thread someone was saying that their husband was dead. Well, I can relate! I feel tricked! This man is not the wonderful, kind, funny, supportive man I married. So who is the real one? This a$$ or the other one? AH HAH the alien invasion right?

I am just rambling because there are too many variables. I know he is in MLC. He has told me he is dating. (Which could be another lie)I FEEL he is in an EA, perhaps with himself, but something is horribly wrong. And, I want to fix it. Yes, I know I can't stop him from leaving me. But, I am hoping that he will see the light. Or at least try counselling. It is the lies and the trust that he has broken that are causing me so many doubts.

I am just having a bad night. I thought his being at sea would be a relief. But it isn't. He can get into far too much trouble in San Diego. And, in his state of mind, he just might to spite me. I wish I had the bucks to show up there. But way too expensive from here. Oh well, I guess I have 3 weeks to stew about this. Yay me! Thank goodness for this board. I expect I will be even more crazy by the 19th.

<small>[ November 01, 2004, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: fightingalone-again ]</small>

Yep, it is about you, and the choices you make.
You are the only person who has to decide whether it is worth it for yourself to fight the battle.
I'm one of those people who see black and white. there is a right choice and a wrong choice.
But when it comes to marriage and divorce, I don't think there is a right choice or a wrong choice (from the BS point of view anyway.)
Is it right for us BS's to divorce faced with all this? Yep. Is it right to stay and fight? Yep.

Myself? I'm pretty much sitting on pins and needles the last few days. W should be giving birth anyday now. Not sure how I'm going to find out about it. Meaning, I don't know if I'll hear from her or find out in the newspapers recent births section online.

All right first of all you must must must get in control of your emotions....quit the chaos...
and protect your daughter...

she needs to know the truth...but it needs to come from both of you on a united front...in which she feels protected...

not mom saying to dad...don't you have something to tell daughter...
and not dad saying no I don't have anything to say...

AND not saying...

dad doesn't love me anymore...
dad is dating other women.....

you and he have to realize that children being so egocentric based on age and developement alone...
will internalize this litteraaly...
she will believe that something you did or she did ...suddenly made you and her not good enough for dad...

and that people are expendable....
and that if he can fall out of love with you and replace you...then logically to her he can fall out of love with her and replace her....

children crave a home that is safe...with boundaries that are firm ..in which they can test normal limits...

and when grownups start their chaos of dating while married..it rocks their world...
cause that boundary was a given..while curfew should be negoitiable...they never imagined mom or dad dating while married to be....

you two need to address and fix this one..together...

will you have contact these three weeks...
cause you need to really understand plan a...and start doing it to the best of your ability...

ARK

Can you tell me what reverse fog babble is?
THank you...
Danielle

Thanks ARK. I know, I made a stupid mistake. It was a huge LB. As soon as the words were out of my mouth, I knew it.

But, I did not say don't you have something to tell DD? THat is destructive to the entire relationship and I know that is just not fair. WHen I asked him to talk to DD, we were alone. NOT in front of her. We succeed in keeping these discussions away from her. Either she is sleeping or at a friends house. NEITHER of us want her in the middle. We don't yell often. Maybe twice a year, if that. And when we argue, we always apologize to each other and to her. NOt just in this situation but other times as well.

I apologized to DD (after WH went back,)for telling her abut WH dating. And she said "No, I'm glad you did. If you hadn't told me, I would have still found out. And then I would be mad at you for not telling me! " She loves him so much, and I keep telling her how much he loves her. But her response is, "if he loves me so much, why did he promise not to do this again and did it anyway?" I tell her he is just very lonely and mixed up. And that he is NEVER going to stop loving her. What else can I say?

I saw the IC yesterday, and I told him what I said. And he pointed out that I have not lied to DD and that is very important to her. I am a constant and she knows that she can trust me. So, even though I am ashamed of what I said, it is done, and I have to accept that th ewords cannot be taken back. But, I can watch and not do that again!

My WH is in the Navy (Canadian)and he is at sea for the next 3 weeks. So, there is no contact other than emails - when it works. And, there is no guarantee he is even reading them.

I have read both Plan A and Plan B. AND, I do understand both the principles and the actions. And, I am following a Plan A. BUT, since I am just finding out the depth of the deceptions and the lies, it has been very difficult. Being in a different city and having no way of finding out what he has been up to, makes it impossible to set clear boundaries. Well, he knows that a PA is a marriage buster. And, I don't think he has taken that step. Cake-eater, yes. But the EA is likely to be with himself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He IS in a MLC. The rest is low self-esteem and problems from way before me. I do accept responsibility fo rmy part. But, I think it is mainly due to a total lack of communication and a lot of assumptions on both our parts.

He has agreed to plan things for us and for the family. That is a HUGE step for him to take responsibility for that. Now, I also know that for me to be in Plan A, I have to not step in when he procrastinates and "fix" things. THat will be the hardest for me. One of his big ENs is for me to let his decisions stand without changing them. And, I am a "fixer". So, that is my struggle.