ok. so i'm going to say it... is it even even worth it? will it ever make difference, anyway, if it dosn't work?

I am retarting's other self. I'm the one who wonders if it's worth the effort. I am the other self who may leave at any moment.

I'm the one one who thinks it may be over already.

<small>[ November 22, 2004, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: GivvinTime ]</small>

GT

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

GivvinTime-

I don't know your whole situation. My WW has an on-going EA with OM (no PA). I frequently have asked myself the same question.

However, I see you have been M 22 years, a long time indeed. I remember all the good times we've had, the family we've raised, and the grandkids that may be yet to come.

If there is even a glimmer of hope that we will emerge from this fog with not just a "salvaged" marriage, but a renewed and better than ever marriage, then yes, it is worth it.

I think it is that hope that keeps all of us at least trying when we want to give up....

GT,

Are you restarting's FWH?

Reguardless......Yes, it is worth it. You got M for a reason right? What was it? Maybe you haven't thought about it in a long time.....but it was enough of a reason at one point that you decided to get M.

Now many things have come to pass you and your W have changed but your comittment should still be honored. It's about Loyalty, Honesty, Care, Trust, and most of all Love.

Have you read through the material on this website? Clear up your signature a little so that we can tell if you are the WS or the BS. You will find many here that are in or have been in your same situation whatever it is.

Take Care and keep posting.

C.

schmaley-

thanks for the post, I'm not really sure now if any of this is going to work.

H doesn't seem to want to put forth effort, and gets ticked very frequently. Only 5 days since NC, I THINK. Can't tell, bc the lies are come so easily.

He HAS tried to be more forthcoming, but appears to resent it. Definately resents the level of distrust I have for him.

Schmaley, I needed another name so I can vent.

I am not my H, but am 'restarting' under alias.

BTW, H has been on A/D med for two weeks. I'm thinking about Plan B today. I mean just go 'dark' for a week. See if not having 21 year wife around will shock him out of the lethargy. If not, then Plan D (DV).

It it's only been 5 days since NC, I would not recommend going dark right now. You don't want to give him a reason to run back to OW.

But to answer your original question, is it worth it? To me yes. It is worth it to me to know I did all I could to save my M, even if it doesn't work out. I will leave this R with no regrets, knowing I did everything I could. I will be able to look my daughter in the eyes when she asks what happened.

A little suffering right now is worth more then a life time of regrets.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by GivvinTime:
<strong> am 'restarting' under alias.

BTW, H has been on A/D med for two weeks. I'm thinking about Plan B today. I mean just go 'dark' for a week. See if not having 21 year wife around will shock him out of the lethargy. If not, then Plan D (DV). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your H is showing classic symptoms of withdrawal. You are expecting way too much, too soon. He has to go through this to withdraw.

The purpose of Plan B is to end the affair and he has already done that. There is no reason to go into Plan B unless you want to throw him into the arms of his OW while he is in withdrawal. Probably the only reason he is not in contact with her is YOU. If you are gone, there is no reason to cut contact. See what I mean?

Ya just have to suck it up with your H and ride this out. It will get easier as the weeks go by *IF* you don't blow it by lovebusting him. But, it will take WEEKS.

Plan B would be useless if you only did it for a week IMO. Unless he came crawling back the first day. It's ok to pull back a little but I wouldn't do that right now as your H has agreed to NC.

Although Plan B might be on the horizion if you are running out of Love, it sounds like you might be in a better position to take a different tact. If he has promised NC then it is not time to go dark. If he breaks that promise then maybe it is. All depends on you. Just make sure that you understand the Plan and implement it Correctly! I've seen too many lately that have no idea what they are doing and think that they are in Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He HAS tried to be more forthcoming, but appears to resent it. Definately resents the level of distrust I have for him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can tell him in a non LB way that trust is something that is earned with honest actions and it will not be free. And at this point he has given you NO REASONS....NONE.... to trust him. Has he sent a NC letter? This is essential but to be approached lightly in the early stages. I would suggest that you get into counseling with Jennifer C. if you can. She is very available and easy to schedule with.

You are in a Good spot right now!!! Try to keep your foothold and DO NOT LB under any circumstances. You have to become the attractive alternative, understand? LBing is not attractive and will push him away in this delicate phase. I AM NOT saying let him violate your boundaries!!! Be firm and gentle about all of your boundaries. I don't know what your boundaries are but one would definitly have to be NC with the OP.

Remember even if it doesn't feel like it you are in a good spot. My WW won't even contact me or any of her family right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> So it can ALWAYS get worse. You have the opportunity to start making progress but much depends on your H's willingness to try and your willingness to stop all LB!

God Bless and keep posting

C.

<small>[ October 31, 2004, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

Klo, Mel, Schma- thanks for the encouragement.

This morning, I cried and cried, then went to him to just hug me tightly. I needed that "safe" feeling, even if it's for pretend for now. I'm so afraid.

Kloe, the reason I stay is so I will always know I did my best. But the pain is huge sometimes.

Mel, he's told me time and time again, with absolute sincerity each and every time, that he has not contacted her, yet I have still found that he has. I am exhausted by it. I am so fearful he will be weak. I am so fearful that he will not put the same enenrgy and effort into rebuilding us as he has put in building the A with her.

He used to be so romantic with me. It wasn't that long ago (2yrs?). I'm trying to resurrect those feelings within me, but is it proving to be a challenge.

schmaley, I am worried about losing my love for him. Maybe if I just act like I'm 'in love' it will come back? It's hard to do, since it feels dishonest.... but no, I guess it's not, after all.

thanks again for the encouragement.

I really needed it.

Keeping your mouth quiet about your evidence that he is lying about NC with the OW, is NOT part of Plan A. You must calmly, quietly, and respectfully let him know that you cannot and will not control him and that NC must be something the HE WANTS to implement. Let him know that as much as you want to trust him, that his actions do not match his words and they are taking a toll on your love for him and eventually will destroy your love for him. Then leave him alone to ponder your words. The point is to let him know that the ball is on his side of the court.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">schmaley, I am worried about losing my love for him. Maybe if I just act like I'm 'in love' it will come back? It's hard to do, since it feels dishonest.... but no, I guess it's not, after all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are getting tired of the role of the BS and it is showing. Don't "act" be honest. Again, I'm NOT telling you to LB here only to be HONEST. IF you don't think that he can handle it then save it for MC. Being gentle but firm is the key. If you do not let him know how you feel he will not be able to react appropriately. This is called emotional honesty.

Listen to everything TMCM says. All real good advice! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> This is a rough time but trust and know that it will get better. The sun will come out again and shine brightly. It may look a little different but it will be good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless and Take Care,

C.

Hi, All. Well, I discovered today he is definitely still calling her, seeing her and the money keeps draining from him (us) to her. He was visiting her today at 12:15, after ensuring I had gotten to work. I don't know how much money he gave her. I just know he was there, and has called me several times today to 'chat' and tell me he loves me.

This, after yesterday, as I comforted him is his dispair that "everything is coming to peices all around me!" - when he got the notice from our insurance that they are about to cancel his work truck policy and his workman's comp policy for non-payment. After I gently told him all that needs be done is determine the goal, then determine, working backwards through the steps to make it no quite so overwhelming... Hugging him tightly and telling him we can do this together - it will be all right.

Biting my tongue. He is in pain and feeling swallowed by it. And as far as I knew, rededicated to his marriage and family and 'doing what's right.' His choices got him here. His decisions to spend our money, his time, his attention and affection and worry over her rather than his duties as a husband and father and provider for his family.

Hmmm. My support and understanding are answered with further betrayal. I am tired of supporting our household and being lied to and having HER benefit from my "compassion" got what my husband is "going through".

I am falling "out of love" and haven't much left.

I feel supremely used. And I have been used.

So, I am leaving him.

I am a broken facsimile of my former self. I will email him a letter asking him to respect my wishes to be left alone - either until he is willing to dedicate himself to me and our marriage, or just leave me alone.

I just can't bear it any longer. It hurts far too much to be made such a fool. I can't stand the daily torture. I truly can't bear that this is a person I trusted and respected with all of my heart, and he is willing to do this -- he is conciously making these decisions -- he is jumping through hoops to decieve me! . Not just because it's to me, but just that he is willing to do it at all .

I am shaken.

I need peace.

I will lick my wounds and work on repairing my sorely damaged self-esteem. How could my judgement have been so wrong????

Tonight, I will not go home. I will pack my things while he is out sometime this week and email the links here links to his family on this tragic saga. I am positive they are not aware of the details or the extent of harm and maliciousness of what he has done. They deserve to know, and I deserve better than this.

Thanks for being there for me these painful weeks. I will no doubt need you in the weeks and months to come....

The letter:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It is with tremendous sorrow, but with hope perhaps for our future as well, that I write you this letter. When I met you, I knew within the very depths of my soul that you were the right man for me. For the past two months, I have weathered your affair with love still strong in my heart. Please know that I love you still and want to work to rebuild our marriage - not to restore what we once had, but into something much better. My heart is heavy and being torn apart by the situation we are in, by your continued betrayal.

I know and have recognized my part in contributing to your affair and the imperfections of our marriage. I neglected to devote all my time, energy and passion to sustain what we once had and once enjoyed so much together. I offer my apologies and sincere regret for having missed hearing you when you tried to tell me your concerns and asked me to understand your unhappiness and unfulfilled needs. I honestly believe, had we both noticed and worked on our marriage sooner, we would not be in the situation. I regret having not noticed the changes we were going through and especially for not having the good sense to change my own habits and approach sooner.

Perhaps you have noticed some of the changes I’ve made in myself and my actions and my thoughts. I know you can see that I am willing to work on my issues now to have a happy, healthy and strong marriage and partnership. I cannot bear any longer to be second place in your life.

Therefore, in order to protect what love and respect I do still have for you, I need to move out and not see or talk with you until you no longer have any type of relationship with Crystal or anyone she has ever associated with or anyone in that situation. If you do decide that you would like to fully and genuinely commit to our marriage I will be open to talking about it with you. I will need to know you are fully committed and have solid assurances you are no longer in contact with OW and that she and her cohorts will never be a part of your life ever again. When you have a plan and a commitment, please let me know…

I hope you will, in time, choose to work with me on the rebuilding of our incredible love for one another and the marriage and future we know we can have. Please, respect my request that you not call me or see me until you’ve made that choice with all of your heart. The only contact that is acceptable until then is for financial issues and please go through DD or DS. Please understand this is necessary for us to live and be happy again, whether it is together or apart.

As for Financial Issues: I will pay for half of our home obligations, as long as Alex still lives at home. The van, on the other hand, is something you must take care of immediately. It is not just or fair that I pay any portion of its payment or insurance when it is the source of your income and therefore funds parental and “other” obligations and decisions. I am also interested in immediately removing my name from ownership of *our company* and from the business bank account.

Honey, this is a painful decision. I have truly loved you and believed in you. I truly believe it is possible for us to be happy together. I know recovery is possible from this. I look forward to a beautiful future together. As I have told you before, I know that you are a good man and I know that still in your heart you remain an honorable man. I know you are hurting deeply. I know that you feel I don’t deserve any of this and you just want it behind you. Me, too. I love you and want to have our marriage together.

Your happiness is very important to me. You are free to make your own choices without my interference. I love you now and will wait as long as I can before moving on with my life.

I love you,
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thoughts are welcomed.....

givvintime/restarting

<small>[ November 08, 2004, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: GivvinTime ]</small>

TMCM - your words turned out to bo right on the money. Rather than 'just not go home' (as mentioned above)and emailing him the letter, I decided to do it in person.

I'm not feeling very much. No hate, no bitterness, no love, no fear. I'm emotionally drained. Physically, too.

When I sat down at the kitchen table with him last night, I had printed a sheet of paper with the hotel's number on it. That was the top sheet in the file. Then, I printed a yellow pages ad from the internet with the name of the hotel, its number and a map of its location. Them I printed a spreadsheet of the amount of cash withdrawals he has made over the past two weeks and where they were made.

I was very calm. He tried to argue that 'he wasn't at the hotel' (splitting hairs) rather than that he was indeed with her at noon yesterday. I told him I'm not arguing, I'm telling him I know. I know he left his Nextel phone at the worksite deliberately to deceive and beleive he wouldn't be found out. I know where he was. I saw him.

He told me he didn't want me off the company. I kinda chuckled: H, i HAVE TO get my name removed -- I've got to protect my credit. Everything you do with that comapny affect me. Oh, yeah, he says, I guess you're right.

While H was is bathroom, shaving off his beard, I told my son what I'm doing and why and what had gone on. Told him I don't know how long it will be, but I am always available to him and we will spend time together.

Told H it won't be over until he stands there in the same room with me at his side and tells OW that he loves me and it is over. She'll never do that - he says. I look at him with a smile and said, "She is still first." He hung his head and said, "no, she's not - you are." I shook my head and said it doen't look like it". -- He said OWs freind's BF working w/ H - they shared phone numbers and OW got in touch with him. I don't believe him, he slipped and said he'd called her. Oh,well, just one more thing to disbelieve. H has still been looking after her at our expense.

Told H I am leaving the home so he can take responsibility for it and DS. Also, told him I liked having someone take care of my room and no worries and the silence. I wasn't spiteful, but a little wistful; peaceful.

He assured me 'there is no sex'. I told him he takes from me every day to give to her and I can't bear it any longer. Its not sex, its his thoughts, his cares, his time, our money. He agreed. "I'll do the right thing." I said, gently, "You've been saying that for some time now. It really doesn't mean much anymore, does it?" He nodded, said he'll follow up with actions.

I told him I am not feeling much any more and must go away before it's all gone. Told him that after this evening, we would not be talking or seeing one another. Reiterated what I signed at the bottome of the letter - that He needs time to think, and I need time to heal. I told him, too, that I don't mean it as a threat, and I cerainly don't want it sound that way, but I don't know how long I can last waiting for him. These last two months have taken quite a toll.

The irony of it all as he takes off this morning to go pick up his helper - the friend of the OW yet again.

I find my skin thickening quickly and my emotions draining rapidly. It's better than the misery, though.

<small>[ November 09, 2004, 06:03 AM: Message edited by: restarting ]</small>

It's 7:10am and H doesn't know that I know he is at her room right now.

I will not be made a fool of again. This is no way for a person to live.

Interesting call only minutes ago - OW calling to say she was sorry and that H is really serious and she'll move and she'll never try to contact him again and won't let him contact her. Said he read the letter to her.

I told her word don't mean much to me, and she's said these things before, so please, don't be offended if it doesn't mean much.

More later - gotta get bags in car.

So sorry to hear what is going on and that the weekend didn't turn out as you had hoped. Your letter sounded very point blank and to the point, without being overemotional. He is so stupid to think that he is able to pull the wool over your eyes. Be strong and know how many people love you. You deserve so much better than him and don't you forget it. He will regret what he has done to you, unfortunately, by that time, it probably won't matter to you.

Dear Ark-

I wished I had found this post earlier. I have been in Plan A since August. I just exposed my WH A to OW parents this past weekend. He was very upset. I still want to go to our Pastor. But after what happened tonight I think its time to move to Plan B. I was late picking up our daughter from daycare becuase I was picking up our son from after school care. (I pick up the kids everyday. He basically lives a carefree life.) My sister who works at my daughter's daycare usually signs her out and I give my sister a ride home. I did not know my sister was not at work today, so they called my WH to pick her up. When I got there he made a huge scene in front of everybody about me being late. And when we got outside he started cussing me out in front of the children and calling me a *itch and so on and so forth. I couldn't even believe what he was doing. I told him I really don't think I can take this anymore, if he is going to be that disrepectful to me in front of our kids he needs to just leave. He doesn't need to set that kind of example to them. I admit I did raise my voice when I said this, but he made me so angry. Was this the right reaction or was it LBing?

I left home, but did not totally break contact w/ H - he is bereft and angry and remorseful and resentful. Has tried all manner of approaches to convince me to return or to let him leave instead...

I have told him that I cannot return without certain preagreed assurances of behavior he can guarrentee. I asked that we stay apart and agree to "court" and start again on a loving foundation - all over again. I told him I don't want to return, like before, with no effort made to repair and rebuild and just go back to status quo: normal activity, TV, no work on 'us.'

He likes to assure me it will be different this time. I said," what happened last time" H,"last time?" "What did I get for returning?" "I messed up." Me-"What else?" H-"What else?" Me-"You told me you loved me. You told me you'd do the right thing. You told me it was over. You told me no more lies. You see what I got for returning and trusting? I don't want to ever go through that again." H-"Yeah, I see. But that's over now. We need to be together."

Me-"I need concrete assurances. I need things that we can agree on and keep to. I need to know you will put the effort into it." H-"I will. I want you home. I don't want to do it your way. I want to do it my way. I want you home." Me- "But doing what you want is what got us here, isn't it?" (pause) Me- "It's not 'my way' - it's the right way. It's the right way to rebuild. It's not easy. It's not comfortable. But it is the right way. The right way almost always takes more effort. We rebuild on love and a commitment to work on this together, not just the same thing and pretending it never happened. That's no way to rebuild."

He- "Ok, whatever you say. But it's not what I want." Me-"Look, I'd like us to agree in advance of what we want from each other, what we're willing to do, what the rules are. I told you last night, and in my email, I can opt to do as you ask, but I can tell you that the shape I'm in, that the least mishap and there is no returning ever again. I can't live like that."

The irritation and resignation and thoughts of rebellion were thick in his voice. I imagine he is in fog, and needs me there, but after having betrayed my trust several times and having daily deceived me, I don't feel I can go back without solid proof it will never happen again.

If he'll see her, and call her when I am there (condoning it, apparrently, through my compliant attitude) and when he's promised not to to get me to return, and then repeating the behavior after I've left once...

...I just condone it again if I return without solid convictions and actions, don't I?

If he betrays me again, I won't be able to ever stay with him or respect even so much as like or respect him. I want so desparately to do this right and keep him and have a happy, healthy marriage....

Restarting-

It is evident that you WH says one thing and then does another, but if you tell your husband that you are not willing to stay under the circumstances and then return, you are not following through your intentions either.

If you waiver in your convictions, you will lose your self-respect and your WH will walk all over you. He needs to believe what you say, in as much as you wish to believe him.

I know that you are so hopeful and wish that he will return to you, but remember what you wrote in your letter and don't return until you have solid evidence of fidelity. You also said that you did not wish for him to contact you, but you are breaking your own rule. He needs to believe you are serious and he needs to understand the gravity of the situation and you do not need empty promises.

Decide that you are convicted to your decision and the ball should be in his court. Great strides are needed on his part and until you see them, your position shouldn't change.

the ball is in his court. He should determine what he wants...

I am done. I can't tke it anymore....