Hi folks,
tonight I thought I'd gotten of over the roughspots.

wrong.

tonight, he got a call g\for a serice call. Didn't recognize the number, but it's within blocks of where the OW stays (hotel).

He goes and comes out of the house four times. Gets in the van, back in the house.

Finally, he asks me, 'why are you so tense?'

Well, I remark, you're in and out of your work truck four times now - why do you keep coming back in? Is it guilt?

No, no, thats just insane... why would I do that?

I don't know .. guilt?

Why do you say that, why?

Well, you never used to walk away from me when you were on the phone, now you get away...

I always walked, you know it.

within 4 feet of me, yes. Other room, no.

Why so bent over a service call???

You hid the call, that's why.

he leaves.

I follow within 10 minutes. Lost him.

During the follow, it occurs to me: If I have to follow, what value does he have?

None.

Decide to come home. Decide to stop and buy a bottle of Pinot and a bottle of Port for him.

If he's for real, he'll be for real.

I bought a bottle of wine for me and a bottle of port for him - lit candles throughout the house and waited.

called him after an hour and half to check in on the call (and him, to be honest). all was well. back home in a very reasonable 1/2 hour.

I showed him the drinks, and pointed out that based on how we'd left off, I could've already been drinking (which was VERY tense), but waited for him and his consent and participation.

we had a very pleasant evening of TV anv convo, during which I drank 3 glasses (a bottle) and he 2 glasses of port.) In the midst of which, I asked if it were just me who was uncomfortable with us, he said yes, bc he's very comfortable with me.

I asked if he is comfoortable not just with the outside, but the inside as well? He said yes, but I doubt it.

I said, y'know, you've had months and months to get comfortble with this whole thing, but I've only had 2 months- there's still things I'm discovering. That's why I asked you to tell me things... discovery is hard. I'd rather just know...


well, we get tired and hit the sack. I get amorous, but he says, no.

No bc if I drank it is no.

I got angry and told him to get our of my house.

He has a mistress as a crack whore and is going to hold this over me?!! get out of my house! he spenr $25000 or more over the last 8 months on her, making no contribution to this house and he's going to give me ultimatums???? We have a $3900 tax bill and he spends $6000 of our saving on her and he's going to tell me about someone with a problem???

No!

Get out of my house!

No, I say, you stay. You pay.

H: no its your house, you f'd OM to be able to pay for it- you keep it.

M: No, it's time you keep the house and family!

anyway, back and forth, etc.

He's on the couch, I'm in the bed.

Perfect.

I'm tired of being the strong one. I'm tired of footing the load. That is not the wife's job. I want to be the wife.

let him have the crack addict and she can have him.

Anyone not willing to fight for me is not worthy of me.

He can fight for her and have her.

Oh yeah. He hit me tonight. Ostensibly to keep me from going. A slap in the face. Not a good enought excuse.

I slapped him back. Indignantly. Self-righteously.

I won't stick around for that.

Watched my Dad hit my Mom for years. I'm no player.

<small>[ November 01, 2004, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: restarting ]</small>

Sorry about all of this pain you are in. In my opinion your marriage just ended tonight (or should). You cannot accept physical abuse. If it happens once it is very very likley (almost 100%) that it will again. DO NOT let anyone tell you that this is "revoerable". Leave tonight and get help for yourself.

sounds like you had a hard night. I am sorry about that. Wow.

I agree with Lemonman on this one. You are not happy, you are forceing yourself to be upbeat, and hang out with him. You follow him and are nervous about everything he does. This is no way to live. He is not living up to his end of the bargain. It is time you move on with out him. If it was meant to be he will change his behaviors and prove it to you, instead of you always trying to prove it to him.

Hang in there, I know the road you are on, believe me I do.

Shall I also mention that for the past 2 months, he's been telling me he's ended it, but still been talking to her daily for any where from 4 to 16 times a day?

Shall I also mention that the wreck this whole mess has gotten into is that in the lst two months since Discovery, I've paid off a $1200 bounced check for the co and $740+ in van pmt, - in arears, bytheway, but ony $1600 dollars has made it back into to the household till????

This is where trust gets me.

Then tonight, for him to get all bent bc I have gotten him a phone with a tracking device (Nextel) and 'treat him like I dont trust him" - well, I don't!

I have no basis for trust.

He brought up the 4 yrs of OM.

I asked him if it were the same?

HMMMM stumped. He knows it's not. I never cost us thousands of dollars nor did I confess and then keep it going and lie DAILY about it while I took money from the family.

I want to go. I want to leave. I want HIM to shoulder the family responsiblities for a change!

I asked him if having a pig seduce me for sex for 4-6X over a 3 year period were the same as falling in love with a crack whore and doing her every week bc he's IN LIVE WITH HER.

He seems to think it's the same.

Oh well.

He is apparrently embracing what he hangs with.

I will not embrace that.

I am better than this.

I am better than a crack whore. I am better than the people he chooses to associate with.

I can do better than a man who insists on comparing me to her.

He is better than this.

We deserve better than this.

J Christ. Can this ever be resolved????

But you're right.

I'f he'll hit me once, he'd hit me again. Perhaps this is what he's gotten to.

I won't lve like my mother lived.

If he insists on blaming me for his choices, then he really is the wrong man for me, isn't he?

"what's love got to do with it?" Tina Turner

LM and KMEJ, I apologize for all the high drama. Pent up Rage and Desperation and Emptiness all came blasting out of me in one fell swoop.

Growing up in a broken household of neglect, violence, philandering, alcoholism, etc, I should know better. I should particularly know that mixing alcohol with intense emotions is dangerous. I should know that using my Dad's teachnique to deal with heavy emotions is a failure waiting to happen.

I almost chucked it all this morning, then accepted that I'm to blame too for the state we are in and even as aware as I am of the pain I'm in, I am still strong enough to help him through his, too.

Bob's and SD's posts made me realize why I'm behaving as I am. Why I've been caving into weakness rather than building on hope. Their posts and the replies give me the strength and hope for a better future.

Allow me share my letter to H this morning:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dearest H,

In spite of all the mud and muck, I still find I love you. In spite of me. In spite of you.

Yes, I have been drinking for all the wrong reasons these days, no, these past years.

You are indeed right about that.

Yes, it is definitely a stumbling block inhibiting our recovery. Using drinking as a way for me to deal with these devastating emotions – or any emotions, to be frank – is weak.

There, I’ve said it. I’m weak. I really hate saying that, but, it is clear now – it is true. It’s difficult for me to face. I am weak.

You are right, and this is my weakness. But at the heart of that weakness is reluctance to admit to anything other than strength. Strength, or the illusion of it, has sustained me throughout my life. The strength to face or embrace obstacles, problems, challenges, disappointments, goals, objectives, projects, love, optimism, hope, spirituality, humanity. When I am not strong in the face of these things, I try so hard to hide it. When my resolve and optimism flag; I seek escape.

I’m not making excuses; I’m begging you to understand me. I need your understanding and your love.

But you knew that, didn’t you?

You are right in that we do not need this additional obstacle, this additional ball and chain to hinder our recovery.

I understand that in your mind you have made a commitment and a decision and it must frustrate you that it’s not clear to me. Please understand that after all that has happened, I no longer feel like I can see into your mind and heart? I can no longer trust my own self to know if anything is true or not. It’s not just in you, honey, it’s trust in anything. I need to get to the place where I can truly believe that what I hear from you is what you mean, again. I mean I really need it. We must find the way together.

Please help me get there? Honey, please find the optimism in the fact that I’m looking for the reasons to believe in you?

Please, please, accompany your words and promises and resolutions with the resolve and pride and love that’s in you? Please, would you show me how important it is to you that your actions speak louder than your words?

This is harder than I thought it would be.

Openness with your needs and weaknesses and thoughts is much more difficult than I thought.

I guess I’ll have to trust you to be gentle with me. I’ll have to trust you with these things inside of me.

I am so sorry for the role I’ve played in the breakdown of our marriage. I am distraught over where we’ve been with this and hopeful for where we will go. I am fearful, too, I admit. But I am still so optimistic!

Time won’t heal us alone. We must resolve to put as much effort forth – no much more effort forth – into rebuilding and remaking our future than we have in creating our past. Let’s face it, there was not a lot of effort being invested by us into us. We must face our own choices and decisions and learn from them. Both of us. Together.

If you’re going through anything like I am, sometimes the contemplation of more effort than just the energy expense to ‘get by’ seems overwhelming; seems hopeless and futile. Then, I look at the enormity of what we’ve already gotten through and I see and aim for that light and happiness that’s in our future. Sometimes, the light is dim; sometimes it is so huge it fills my heart!

It’s really pretty big, isn’t it? We’ve gotten through some fairly huge things, haven’t we?

Lets do what we must,

Your loving wife,

M

PS. Please read to understand me? WS's and pain, and how it applies in the recovery process.... And A look into the mind of a BS on and after d-day </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks again for the support through the rant. It probably goes without saying that my previous posts were heavily biased in my direction. Hopefully, my letter will address a more balanced view.....

I think it may be time for you to seriously start considering implementing Plan B before you lose too much love for your H. Not only would plan B give you a chance to remove yourself from the heartwrenching drama of his continued contact with the OW but would also give him a taste of what reality would be like without you. Please give this some very serious thought.

I agree with TMCM. You need to do something before you lose yourself intirely. Sweep up what ever self respect you have left and do something to help this situation move forward.> Right now you are at a stalemate, and niether one of you want to make the next move.

{{{restarting}}}}

I'm sorry I didn't continue to post to you...I was at a point, where, well, didn't think I was helping in anyway. (And my own crosses have been just too much lately.) Sorry.

I think I have already told you this, but you have a great talent in your writing. That letter pretty much summed it up, huh?

There's only one thing (OK, two) missing from that letter--and it can't be in the letter. It can't be just words...it's so much more...ACTION.

Follow up your words with actions. Maybe your M can't be saved...maybe, indeed TMCM is right...abd this is certainly calling the kettle black, but, maybe, just maybe, EVERYTHING will fall into place if you stop this addiction. No, I'm not placing blame on you. PLease, please, please, don't get me wrong. There is NO EXCUSE for an A--and continnued A as your WH is doing. But maybe he does have a legitimate point.

I remember jumping his [censored] when he gave you that ultimatum. Restarting, make him eat his words! If he is out and out refusing to stop NC and his A, then YOU take care of things. Right now, YOU can only rely on YOU. You can't control his actions; ah, but you can yours.

PLease consider AA and/or IC. YOU need this. And, if there is ANY hope for M recovery, this needs to happen regardless.

So, you're at a point (as I see it) where it's win-win for you--if you stop drinking. It's a must. There's no if's, and's, or but's, as they say.

I know this demon--he's frineds with mine. But there's no comfort with what we are dealing with. Don't you feel 100X worse AFTER the fact? I do. NOTHING good can come of these demons we are battling. Nothing. And it's stil a minute by minute battle. I understand. I really, really do. But we both (yes, I included me) must stop COMPLETELY!!!!!

I know GA did not "work" for me. (I tried a few times.) IC has, but I "relapsed." Maybe this new IC that I'm seeing can do some good. But I know I have to keep trying. You do too.

Pray.

Let me know whatchya think.

{{{TMCM, KMEJ, LINY}}}
thanks so much for the help and support. I am indeed packing some things and leaving.

I didn't mention at the end of the first post that I called him and told him about a long email I had written to him. He asked me to read it. My heart froze. Writing it was hard, but to say it out loud? My god, I'm taking my tender emotions and thoughts and handing them over!

But I did it. through tears and choking, my heart on my sleeve. He let helper (OWs freind's BF, as it turns out, again) interupt my letter twice for directions on the work they're doing. That hurt, too. My heart on a plate and, "No, no, that goes over there..."

He said thanks, it meant a lot to him. said that he'd thought about it, and he would release me to see other people if it was what would make me happy - just like I offered to him a month and a half ago. Also, it was relating this offer to the melee melee last night, when I told him that I am better than this, better than the way he's treating me, that I deserve better and I interview millionares every day that would certainly treat me better than this. (Believe I may have really crossed his self-esteem line with that one, in retrospect. Wasn't the intent, but apparrently it did. My intent was that they are generally pretty preoccupied with themselves and would still treat me better than he's doing..)

Then, I called him later relaying a service call, but no answer. No answer for 2 1/2 hours. This is after weeks of asking that he keep his phone near him, and relating how important it is to me to have assurance of where he is and that he is doing what he says.

He finally called back, said they're getting the job done. Then, he says he's thought about it and will go buy a new mattress for spare room, pay half the bills and we can live like roommates. Come and go as we please, date. "You can go find yourself a Millionare."

"That's what you came up with for a solution to our situation?"

"Yeah. I'll keep up my half and you yours. I'll build back up our savings and we'll be roommates. Then we'll see where we end up with all this."

"That's what you consider a reasonable approach?"

"Yeah. I mean it's so important to you to keep mentioning that you need to date."

"No. No need to. I'm leaving"

Calls back.

"That's not fair."

"H- life's not fair. We've seen that."

"You're overreacting. You're the one who threw in my face that you could date if we break up. You've done it 4 times in the last months!"

"Look, I'm not going to argue here. (pause, uncomfortable silence) Wait ---- You're ticked off about 'having something thrown in your face' 4x? Let's be reasonable here: What did I just spend the last 8 weeks, not the last one, having 'thrown in my face?"

"You mean comparing you and OW?"

"No, I mean the OW."

"No, I never did that."

"Yes, after I found out, you kept seeing her, calling her - despite me finding out again and again. And with you telling me you're not. That's not called having something thrown in your face? Not to mention the 8 months previous..?"

Long silence.

"Ok, you're right. That's not fair."

"Please, don't tell me what you think I want to hear."

"No, really."

Anyway, it ended up telling him I was going.

He called me 15 min later to ask if I brought my stuff with me. I told him yes. He got ticked and said, fine, we'll call a real estate agent tomorrow then. I said OK and hung up.

Not answering phone. OK?

Just did answer it - just now. H: "If you don't come home tonight, it's over."

"OK." I hung up. (BTW, I am speaking softly, firm but not mean.)

Called back, I answered "I'm not arguing."

"No, please just come home tonight." "no." "please, just come home tonight" "no" "W, I'm on bended knee asking you, please?" "no"

"Let's talk about this" "no. I'll write." hung up.

<small>[ November 02, 2004, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: restarting ]</small>

Quote:
"Yes, I have been drinking for all the wrong reasons these days, no, these past years.

You are indeed right about that.

Yes, it is definitely a stumbling block inhibiting our recovery. Using drinking as a way for me to deal with these devastating emotions – or any emotions, to be frank – is weak." End quote.

It sounds like addressing your alcoholism is a good place to start with your recovery. Dr. Harley doesn't believe that you can recover your marriage unless a drug or alcohol problem is first resolved. This will take a big commitment from you. It sounds like it has been a requirement of his also. This is beyond POJA, I think. It is a given.

There is a book called the 'Three Minute Therapy', by Dr. Michael Edlestein. It explains Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy. If you aren't into AA this may be an alternative. In the book he has an example of how he counseled an alcoholic to successfully give up drinking.

It sounds like you self medicate, this book could help you learn a different way to address your problems. There are nutrients that healthy...not damaging that can help ease some of the symptoms of depression and anxiety. You should also do some research on those alternatives. Anti-D's may not be a solution for you as long as you are drinking as they are not to be mixed with alcohol.

I tend to see that the slapping was a direct result of both of you drinking. Will he make a commitment to also not drink?

I know that none of what I said addressed your present marital concerns. I say...first things first. You can do this....

Trix- yeah, I know that alcohol is a depressant and anxiety inducer for the following day. It is insane to drink to deal with pain or anything, for that matter. It's just so easy to use to get to the 'quickly relaxed' feeling, and legal.

My family's issues with me is that I when I drink, I am avoiding and that is unhealthy. When I don't drink, I am more pleasant for them, but very uptight for me. Kinda puts the(ir) worlds on my shoulders, doesn't it? But I had something to do with that, by creating and environment where everyone depends on me. Never thought it'd be so hard to take on that yoke.

Really, tho, I have used it to AVOID thinking about those things that I wish I didn't have to deal with.. Just like some people who get totally wrapped up in computer games, chats, TV, working out, sleeping too much, etc - it is an avoidance technique - an escape method. It is, I recognize, more harmful to your body than the others.

I also owe it to myself to limit it and not crutch with it. Grabbing for a crutch really never develops your stride. Besides, after all this wonderful wieght loss <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> why not spruce up the whole body? And why give anyone another excuse for why the are the way they are and why they act the way they act and why they do the things they do, huh?

It's such an unwholesome, lazy habit to fall into. It is easier than meditating, tho. Maybe I'll get bak into my RPG Baldor's Gate series again for my 'escapes'?

CU Nov 5...