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Joined: Nov 2003
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Hi All

I have been lurking on here for a few months. Sorry, this story might turn out very long indeed.

I will now tell you of my tales of woe that have forced me to come here. It has been 25 years of Hell.

We live in Southern Australia. I have two kids S 22 & D 20. Son has left home & living with other guys his own age in house we are buying.

The timeline in this story is a bit vague as I was mostly oblivious to the things going on.
I married my wife in April 1979.
My story starts just in the humdrum of life in about 1981-1982. My wife was in training to become a nurse. As part of her training, she had to attend a Psychiatric hospital. This when I noticed things going a little strange. She went out partying most nights. She was pregnant with our first son. I thought well she had worked hard, so she deserved this time.

One night in particular, I had gone to bed 1/2 hour before she got home from a night out. She came in the front door of the house & closed our bedroom door. I thought this is funny, because I was still really awake. A man came in after her, she was careful that he did not ring the door bell & woken me up.
I got up & opened the bedroom door so I could see what was going on. A couple of times, she kept checking the bedroom door & closing it. I finally decided to go to the bathroom. I found her sitting next to him in the dark. I just said to her "Oh, you are home". She never even answered more or acknowledged I said anything. I went to the bathroom, then went back to bed.
He then left soon after that event. The next night, she went out again, with the same guy but I never saw him again.

After my son was born, I took him down the beach to give her a break away from him. We used to give 3 rings on the phone when we arrived at the destination to let the other know we had arrived safely. The time was about 4pm in the afternoon. When I rang, the phone was engaged. So, from 4pm onwards till about midnight, I tried to ring her. She answered the phone just after midnight & I told her about my attempts to call her, & she told me there was a phone company fault. The thing funny about that is that I called her mother who lives not too far away & the mother answered the phone straight away. I told her that I could ring her mother but not her & she shrugged it all off. I trusted her & let it slide, I did not check with the phone company afterwards. Suspected ONS # 1

She rang me one night, to tell me, she was not coming home & she was studying at another person's house. The thing is she never went back to that house again. She never studies for anything. I think it was a suspected ONS # 2

After my daughter was born, W had her tubes tied -I wonder why.

We had a friend over I used to work with that said he would help me setup a new computer. He disappeared out in the backyard to have a cigarette, my wife followed him. A while went by & I had a question to ask him, so I proceeded to go outside to ask him. I found my wife in a state of undress with him in a hugging mode. ONS # 3

I was mad, I went back inside & she came in & said "I have hurt you, haven't I". I told her yes. It made no difference. Everytime I brought this up as to why, she kept on saying she hated the man.

1995 - 1996. I have worked shift work on & off since 1990. I was earning good money & life seemed normal to me. I had a wife I trusted & kids growing up & going to school. I was happy in my life & work.

Somewhere between 1997-1999 we engaged a landscaper to re-do all the front & backyard & also some brick paths. I totally trusted him & believed he was a good worker. Every night I came home, something about the place had changed.

She did all the justifying the affair by saying I hit her & did not stick up for her. I have never, or attempted to hit her at all.

I said goodbye to them one afternoon as I was going for afternoon shift, I noticed they had a glazed look in both their eyes, standing side by side each other. They looked like the 2 Cheshire cats out of Alice in Wonderland. I never thought any more about it

He also did other work for my MIL down at the beach house. Building a carport. My wife jumped at the chance & said she would go & cook for him & help him out. I found out later from my MIL that they appeared more 'than just friends', 'Too chummy' were the exact words.

After all the work was completed, I had my 40th birthday. I invited all my old workmates past & present. My wife dressed up in a little black dress & looked lovely. The night started out, I went for a walk out side & saw my wife coming back from the front of the house. She looked as though she was looking or waiting for someone.

The party started & I no longer saw my wife anywhere. I was too caught up & my family had to help with feeding the lot of the guests.
A strippergram came & went & the party carried on till 4 am in the morning, when I said goodbye to the last guest out front.

I got ready for bed & found my wife in bed. I asked where she had been & she told me "She was raped by someone at the party" I asked her if she wanted to go to the police & she said "No". She told me to tell anyone who asked, that she had attended to a neighbour who was sick at the time.

I have known all these people for years & so has my wife because she worked at the same place before doing nursiing. To accuse
any of these people was really hard to take & I spent a long time agonising over 'Who it could possibly be'.
She said she was so terrified to go out at night & I escorted her to her car each night she had to go for work.. Over time I let this slide & forgot about it.
I got all the foggy answers, like if I told her I loved her, she would reply I know you do"
Another one, if she saw a bride going to the church, she would say "Look at those stupid people"

We used to go to MIL for dinner on every Sunday night. I heard her say "The landscaper is getting married". I never took much notice of it, but it gets me wild now as a trigger.

One afternoon, she packed her bags & started putting them in the car. I told her I did not want her to leave & she told me "I had to do more around the house".

Start of 2001, I walked in on her on the internet & she minimised an open window. She came straight out & said "Nothing is going On"
That struck me as odd, because I never said anything to her. Now a big red flag in my book. She minimised her use on the Internet told me she hardly ever goes on. But the monitoring software told a different story. She was on from the time the kids & I left in the morning till we came home.
I got the ILYBNILWY.
I let it go, but at the first opportunity I installed Spector. I then found out the true things going on. She asked if we could buy a Scanner & Camera for the Internet. I was gathering information & could see what was finally going on. I asked her if she was going to meet any of these men, mostly from America. She said "No"

I had a IC booked for myself & I told her about going to see her. She said "That was my problem".
It all came to a head in August. I confronted her with all the information & she said "It was just a fantasy". I knew she was going to meet the guy in a Hotel in our home town in the day or two.
I was sneaky & told her I would meet her on the same night for drinks at a hotel. She decided against going to meet the guy.
She was supposed to go to a funeral on the same day & go out for drinks with the attendees afterwards. I caught her out, because she never went to the funeral at all.
I told her we need counselling & she agreed to go. But never has made an appointment for herself.

In Dec 2001, she told me she was leaving after Christmas, but she never has left.

I was setting in concrete an Sundial in the front which reads "Grow old along with me the best is yet to be". She told me "I have done some things in my life I am not proud of". I let this go, & waited for the full confession. It never came.

In Sept 2002, I was still shift & working in another office. I found out from him, that at my 40th party he had attended, 3 other people saw my wife leave with the Landscaper for the night.. I let it slide but I stewed over it. We got in an argument one night in Nov 2002 & I let her have it about knowing where she was. She still brings up her answer about the rape & gets so angry.

The morning after I told her about what she did at the party, she kissed me hard & said "I only want you".

I have told her that we need to find out "WHY' or it will happen again. Open & honest conversation about the situation. She avoids this at all costs

Now to things happening now. She has started a new job about 18 months ago in the travel industry Just lately I went to pick up D's car getting serviced. when I returned wife was mad. She claims a woman keeps calling for me. Does not leave a name or number.
I honestly do not know of any woman that would call me like that.

She got very angry at that particular time & told me I had not filled the Dogs Water Bowl. She also said that "The house is falling down". I asked what was falling down & she said "It is Spring time & everything needs a good clean." That seemed a stupid answer & a red flag for me. I asked if she was cheating on me. I got no answer. I told her "She was Nasty".

On the signs of cheating it says that the cheater creates an argument over a trivial thing. She then left & went up the local shopping centre, not once, but twice, one after another.

She came back & she apologised for blowing up.

I have caught her out again lying to me. I went to near the place where she works. I saw her and another woman leave for their lunchtime. I saw them cross the road.

She tells me, the reason she walks to work is for the exercise. When she rang to tell me she was on her way home I took the dogs to meet her. I told her I saw her going to lunch. She said she only gets 1/2 hr & did not go out for lunch. She says "By the time I get coffee, there is no time to go out for lunch.

I also found out recently, that she calls the Landscaper every year for his birthday.

She has never shown remorse or said she is sorry for what she has done in the past.
If I ask a question about the past, she always says "Oh we are not on this again are we" I just think she wants to sweep everything under the rug. I am thinking she is a Serial Cheater.

We had an argument last week in the car. I told her I loved her & she said "I know". I said to her that was the same thing she said to me when she was screwing around with the Landscaper. She then told me she was leaving after her current trip to Malaysia.

The trouble is now, thinking back in time, I was so stupid not to see the things that stared me in the face.I feel so used, humiliated, betrayed, & my life is totally wasted, that she got away with all this & still says she loves me. SAYS is the word though, all my workmates know that she has done the earlier time. I have even thought of suicide.

The photos of her & my mothers & fathers were in the bedroom, they just disappeared about the same time of the Landscaper was here. To me, that means she took him to our bed.

The glazed look in their eyes, her willingness to go & look after him, but I stayed home to look after the kids.
I have never cheated because I have set boundaries. I just don't go there.

She claims "I have given her 25 years of hell" but never elaborates on it. She has definitely given me the same.

My main couple of questions follow:-

I think the party (marriage) is over. As I said, I have definite gut feeling she is cheating again on me buy the points below.

1. The blow-up about the spring cleaning & the trips to the shops.
2. Lying about going out to lunch.
3 Talking about the guys name all the time (He is going to Ireland to see U2). He is on page 19 of the book. He was going to a party.
4. Deleting phone numbers from her Recent Called list on the phone.
5. A phonebook addition of the number 233 with no name attached.
6. Pointing out my flaw (Snoring).
7. No hugging or cuddling me, no coming anywhere near me.
8. No Intimacy since August.
9. Cold shoulders

Does anyone understand why she consistantly does these things?

All I want to do is kick her a$$ out in the street. I am sick & tired of this constant unfaithfullness. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

She left the other day to go with our daughter for two weeks to Malaysia. I dropped them off at the airport. She gave me a hug & told me she does not really want to leave & that she loves me. She said we will figure it out after she gets back & if I still want her to leave. She said I had to pack her stuff up for her. I just think she is stalling me so when she gets back she can continue the cheating with the OM who I have heard is married.

What do you guys think my chances are, for reconcilliation stalled and in limbo for a long while now?
Never wanting to talk about the past. No intimacy or closeness. I have to go to her to get even a kiss, sometimes she tilts her head forward & I get a mouthfull of hair.
She is two faced. Calls me "Sweetie" when her mother is around & then will not have anything to do with me after MIL is gone.

I have sent her the links to Marriage Builders & Surviving Infidelity site - But she says " she is not going to those Cheating Sites"

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your valuable time.

Peter

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Peter,

so so sorry for your pain.

Have you read everything on this site? I guess since you've been lurking for a while you might have done. You can find some really good advice here so stick with it. Its not going to be easy but I think you've done absolutely the right thing by posting on here and confronting the issue.

I'm an aussie too, and there are others on here. Please keep reading and posting and keep your chin up.

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Hi Peter,

I have to agree with your assessment that you are living with a serial cheater. It poses special problems for recovery....especially when the WS shows no remorse and refuses to be honest. Unless your wife is willing to enter therapy...both individual and marriage...I'm very worried about your hopes for recovery. I'm so sorry you're in this situation.

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Ozman - Welcome to MB. While it is sad to see another "join our club," I am very happy that you have found a great resource here that can hopefully help you and your marriage.

First a question. I hope you aren't offended by it, but it will help me in formulating how to respond to your questions. Are either you or wife born-again Christians? I saw no mention of God in your post, so before I offer any biblical advice I'd like to know what sort of a advice you might be looking for.

Having said that, let me quickly address a point or two from your post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you guys think my chances are, for reconcilliation stalled and in limbo for a long while now? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The answer to this question is "good," IF you are both willing to do some hard work and to make changes that are needed. If either of you is unwilling, then the chances are less good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She gave me a hug & told me she does not really want to leave & that she loves me. She said we will figure it out after she gets back & if I still want her to leave. She said I had to pack her stuff up for her. I just think she is stalling me so when she gets back she can continue the cheating with the OM who I have heard is married. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is "classic cakewalker" talk. She is attempting to make you the "bad guy" i.e.. "if I still want her to leave." I must have missed something in your post because I thought "leaving" was her idea. Regardless, she is still attempting to make the "decision" yours, and along with it make you out to the "bad guy."

"She gave me a hug & told me she does not really want to leave & that she loves me. "

Another cakewalker phrase. You are meeting some of her needs and someone else is meeting others. She has the "best of both worlds" if she can convince you to "not make waves" and leave everything alone and not make changes, to be "accepting" of "unacceptable" behavior.

OZman, from what you posted, it seems rather evident that your wife has been involved in multiple affairs for some time. I know that the possibility of divorce is painful, but unless you are willing to accept "sharing" your wife with other men, you must accept the potential for a divorce and confront the issue. Marriage IS ONE man and ONE woman...period. No other humans are allowed in the marriage or it is NOT a marriage, or certainly not one that believes in "forsaking all others and keeping myself only unto you."

Right now it would seem that you may have a knowledge deficit about affairs and what must be done. If you have not done so yet, let me recommend that you begin your quest for knowledge by obtaining and thoroughly reading two books, for starters. The first is Torn Asunder by Dave Carder and the second is Surviving An Affair by Willard Harley. A third book that you might want to have, should it be needed, is Tough Love by James Dobson.

Oz, keep posting. This can easily be a very trying time for you emotionally as the issue begins to be addressed.

God bless.

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Hi & thankyou for your replies.

Smur i live in Melb & I have read a lot of the material here.

Star*fish

I ask her any question/s about the time with the Landscaper & she says "Nothing Happened". She used that answer last week when she told me she was leaving. I just cannot get a straight answer out of her. If I say anything about the episode in the backyard, her answer is "That was 20 years ago".

It is as though in her mind that is in the past, put it to rest. She cannot see that they were/are all linked together to get us to where we are today.
I unsuspectingly used Plan A while the thing with the Landscaper was going on. I did go into counselling for a while, but she never went or made an appointment at all. I just new I was in the ocean & swimming alone. I thought things would get better, cbviously not.

Funny thing though, We were in Bali in April this year for our 25th Anniversary, She said one of the strangest things to me.

On the actual Ann day, this came out. She said "If you were to get married again, would you have another baby?" I said "No".

ForeverHers

She used to go to church while our kids were in Sunday School. She suddenly stopped going about the time when the thing with the Landscaper was going on. I don't know if she knew she was breaking Gods commandments or not, but that is when she stopped going. Her mother goes to church every sunday, but W never goes now. Maybe she thinks she has done too much damage to return.

I can see your point, if I make her leave, I am the Bad Guy, forcing her out & into the arms of the other guy.

She will be home on Nov 15th from Malaysia, what can I do up until then?

I don't know what else to do, is it better if I leave? To make her see that she only has one side of her EN's being met & go into Plan B?
I think she uses me as the provider side, money Spouse fixit things. Any closeness, hugging cuddling & everything else, the other guy gets, because she will not let me get close to har at all.

I know if I get SAA & Torn Asunder, she will never read them either by herself or with me.

She hates books like those, "They are about cheating, I'm not one of those people"

What do you all suggest I do.

Thanks

P

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^ Bump ^

To get some good answers before it is left & ends up in the archives.

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To add my two cents she sounds like she has a sexual addiction or perhaps a mental condition called bipolar disorder. If you can get her to counseling that might help but my main concern for you and anyone with a cheating spouse is that you might be exposed to HIV or Hep C. Has she been tested? Perhaps you should. And if you are intimate with her insist on condoms. That's the world we live in now. It isnt just the cheating that hurts its the other stuff too. I also add, and from experience with one like her; Get a backbone. Love

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Peter,

I am no expert but I am thinking that some how or other she needs to be shown how seriously this has affected you and is still affecting you.
Without that I doubt that she will change anything after all this time.

So this would require a lot of talkign and listening. About Plan A and B - maybe you could first try talking to her your pain and hurt, then tell her why you feel that way, and ask her if she could be honest with you about whether she has had an A. This might be tough to do without LBing. You could think about it for a while, if she's not back from Malaysia for another couple of weeks you have some time to prepare what to say and how to say it. Also to prepare how to respond depending on what she says.

If she ignores, dismisses or disregards your feelings or your question, then I think you could think of moving to plan B.

Keep it up, please don't let it get on top of you - people here will help out.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you all suggest I do.

She will be home on Nov 15th from Malaysia, what can I do up until then?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Get the books and read them. Read everything you can on this site about Plan A and Emotional Needs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know what else to do, is it better if I leave? To make her see that she only has one side of her EN's being met & go into Plan B?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, it's decidedly NOT better for you to leave. If anyone "leaves," it needs to be her. That is perhaps how she will begin to see that the "results" are "her choices," not yours.

Do not even consider a Plan B until you have been in a total Plan A mode for at least 6 months to 1 year, unless there is a circumstance like her choosing an Other Man over you and moving out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think she uses me as the provider side, money Spouse fixit things. Any closeness, hugging cuddling & everything else, the other guy gets, because she will not let me get close to har at all.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No doubt about it, in my humble opinion. It is classic "cakewalker" thinking. Unfortunately, in order to begin to "change" that thinking it is going to require loving confrontation. That confrontation will very likely be met with all sorts of defensive responses; i.e., anger, denial, blaming you, belittling you, trying to get you to agree that the "problem" is all in your mind, etc..

Let me suggest another book for you that is NOT primarily an "affair book." It's called Magnificent Marriage by Gordon MacDonald. It's more of a "how to" book about how to have the sort of loving, intimate, marriage that most of us wish for.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know if I get SAA & Torn Asunder, she will never read them either by herself or with me.

She hates books like those, "They are about cheating, I'm not one of those people"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First, the books are for YOU, so you will better understand the dynamics. It is not important at this point if she ever reads them, it IS important that you begin to arm yourself with knowledge because the "crazy talk" that you will encounter must be understood and you must know how to "handle" things even while your wife is in denial.

The "denial" is evident from her statement, "They are about cheating, I'm not one of those people" While I don't believe from what you have written that your wife has not had sex with other men (i.e. the Landscaper), let's assume that she has not. Many people equate "cheating" or marital unfaithfulness with only the actual physical act of sex. This is very untrue. Ask any of the people here on the system who have either been involved in, or the spouse of someone who has been involved in, an Emotional Affair.

For women, the "harder" part of an affair IS the emotional aspect.

Ozman, you need to understand what Emotional Needs are and you need to begin to assess what you think your wife's top EN's are and how you have, or have not, been meeting them for her. Without you both getting your top EN's met, the intimacy you desire is unlikely to occur, especially for women. Women get "intimate" long before the act of marriage. Sex is a "culmination" of all that goes on before, not the "way they show their love," as it is with most of us men.

One other thing that you might want to do some research on is the whole concept of what Boundaries and Standards are. They will help you to clarify things and may even be a less "threatening" topic for discussion with your wife.

I am not surprised that your wife has stopped going to church. Biblically speaking, marital unfaithfulness is quite clearly dealt with and prohibited. Someone in an affair does NOT want to be told that there ARE things that are "black and white," "right and wrong." To admit that would "force" them to confront their own behavior.

God bless.

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>bump< for Peter.


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