There are regular questions to FWS on here about how they feel, what impels them to behave in certain ways etc as they enter recovery.

As a BS I can never get truly inside the head of a FWS but the articulate and heartfelt responses have certainly helped give me SOME sympathy if not empathy with my FWW as she wrestles with these demons, AND a lot of respect for the upstanding FWS of this board who have overcome these dark emotions.

What I HAVEN'T seen is a WS asking how it feels to be a BS - what impels US through recovery. Occasionally BS pain manifests itself brutally as with friend Noodle's post on Nov 1st, but rarely a direct explanation of how a BS is affected by infidelity and recovery.

I have written regarding MY feelings, and I know that parts of these are shared by MANY BS, though I do not profess to represent all of us. PLEASE don't flame me for this: you all KNOW some of my best friends on here are FWS and I do not consider myself morally suprior aor anything to these lovely folks, but I feel there is a need for WS to hear how a BS feels AND maybe for BS to see that their own experiences are not aberrant.

If this offends,let me know and I will remove my post. Please know that I offer this insight with loving intent. It was NOT easy to write with tears dripping off my chin...

*****************************************************************

On D-day, I asked my FWW how she could be so calm. She replied "Well, its not a surprise to me is it ?"

I believe this is one reason why WS possibly can never understand the devastation visited upon a BS.

Unless d-day is minutes after a ONS, the WS builds up to a PA over time and many 'exciting' steps, and only the discovery is a shock to them on d-day. The Fog may also help them rationalize on d-day too that the BS is in the wrong and they are still in the right. There is also much personal enjoyment of an A by a WS that does not happen to a BS. There are absolutely no positive attributions to the Affair for a BS.

It may be that the A is over by d-day, in which case the WS has had time to deal some of their their feelings about the A. In any case the affairs' cause and effects have been experienced over a time period much more conducive to human emotional processing.

By contrast the BS loses everything in a millisecond. EVERYTHING. Hope, trust, love, faith, future, past, breath. EVERYTHING. We are TRULY and UTTERLY broken : dysfunctional: hopeless. Helpless.Loveless. Godless. Dead but walking.

Everything we have ever considered to be true and good is taken from us before the breath of confirmation has fully left our WS mouth.

I am not sure that anyone who has not experienced an unexpected d-day as a BS can ever truly realise what is taken from us, and what is visited upon us.

For sure, many WS realise over time that the A was a bad thing - most regret them, many recover from them. But all occurs to a timetable more supportive of experiencing trauma than the immediate shotgun blast to the soul that BS experience.

The vastness of the betrayal and destruction is missing: the overwhelming immediate, looming perspective of utter hopelessness that BS see in that fateful second on d-day is never experienced nor even comprehended by WS IMO.

Maybe that in itself is a grace - what loving FWS could ever live on after they know the waking damnation they have knowingly visited upon one who loves them?

A BS' whole life infrastructure is blasted away in that second - the floor falls away to reveal a Hieronymus Bosch vision of hell - snatching demons waiting to claim us. Hell seemingly clawing at our heels.

For WEEKS after that revelation we have no hope - literally. All is lost - no stone remains within us upon which we can lay another stone in rebuilding. We cannot even rely on our OTHER trust relationships ( relatives,friends) because our trust has been blasted into pieces. The machine within us that generates and sustains love and trust is irreparably broken - seized with no hope of repair. We have scorched earth where once our love, values and hopes stood.

We lose even the IMAGINATION that the devastation will one day recede. We are visited with seemingly eternal hopelessness. I believe that Hell - eternal sepration from the love of God - will feel a little like the first few days after d-day.

We cannot eat, as food becomes dry poison to choke us. The fear wells up and manifests in dry retching and tears. It HURTS to cry when ones tears are all used up.

I suffered a physical breakdown - ague, pallor, total loss of toilet function for days. I thought I was dying and I welcomed death as a salve, truly.

The grief is as tangible as the day I held my dear Mom's hand as she died, but is without the hope I felt then.

Guilt, fear, unworthiness, self-loathing, embarrassment, humilation, indignation, hatred of self, others, the world, God - there is NO negative sensation that is not experienced FULL ON by a BS and we go from everything to nothing in a milisecond.

If I ever undergo this again it WILL kill me. I will not recover.

Over time , if a BS is blessed by God in the way I was, he will survive - no more- for some weeks, then stop crying and look at the devastation around him. In my case the ONE THING I was left with was a completely inexplicable and undeserved love for my FWW. To begin with I cursed this love - it was stopping me eating myself up with righteous hatred - but I soon realised it was God given and was a mustard seed which would grow to fill my rebuilt life someday. Small love but STRONG.

NOW I had a brick - a strong one - upon which to lay others in rebuilding.

From that seed of love came hope..then strength..then self respect..then, well, I ain't finished rebuilding yet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Now, months later, my wound has not begun to heal. There are still big holes in my floor and part of me will EVER be sad and lonely.

God restored my ability to love and with THAT gave me the only tools really needed to rebuild a BS life after D-day: Ability to Love selflessly and Love of God. Not all get that - i KNOW I have been blessed.

Now that my own strength is returning it seems it is my FWWs strength that is failing as the cold realization of what she has done creeps upon her. Well I have said befire that there is no higher state of grace than for a man to be what his family needs at time of crisis and I am proud and thankful to be here for my kids and FWW at this time.

We may not recover over time, but I can help meet my family's needs RIGHT NOW.

*********************************************************

I am sorry if I have upset anyone - please believe it is not my intention.

I hope my descriptions have been graphic enough to convey how a BS feels when they learn of the betrayal.

Now PLEASE read what I write carefully - NO punishment feels sufficient for the demonic and existential hell visited upon a BS at that moment that we are forced to deal with completely unprepared over the next many months/years. AND those BS who want to try to save their M must also suck it up, choke it down and display other deeply unhealthy behaviours to one recently involved in such a trauma as d-day.

In the minds of a devastated BS infidelity is surely the "abomination that causes desolation". "The sin that can never be forgiven".

BUT I AM NOT ADVOCATING TERRIBLE PUNISHMENT !. I am doing the opposite - betrayal feels to a BS deserving of the worst punishment imaginable but no human torture comes close to making amends and we all know that.

No wonder most BS go through temptation to have a revenge affair. To revisit the same abyssal hell upon the one who visited upon us seems the only appropriate response sometimes. But most do not execute.

This is why IMO OM or WS revenge fantasies are dilute and weak and rarely executed. Some BS need to VERBALISE them, but never execute nor even BELIEVE them. Mine were funny ( yet still offended Just J), Noodles' earnest but I truly believe not offered with any intention of execution.

Its certainly why I never beat crap out of OM. It would be such a pathetic gesture of retaliation as to be meaningless and hollow, I know that. Sat here I am a two hour drive from doing just that. It is not cowardace that stays my hand it is the knowledge that such would IN NO WAY remove the pain, only revisit yet more pain on HIS family. One thing I have emerged from this mess with is a real EMPATHY for emotional hurt.

Infidelity is truly Satan's best torture yet. It hits every BS pain button and is purpetrated by the person we love most/suspect least. No torture, mortal nor immortal could possibly be enough to pay that debt.


BUT the part of all of us that is made in Gods Image (believers or not IMO) instinctively knows that any punishment will not right that wrong.

Only LOVE can do that. It is surely a sick irony that only selfless love from a BS can redeem a WS after nearly killing the BS.

*************************************************************

So I have tried in my clumsy words to express how it feels to be a BS, and why sometimes our pain might manifest in seemingly unacceptable posts or statements. because we have to behave like 'saints' in order to win back our FWS it doesn;t mean we are saints all the time.

Forgive us BS, FWS, We know not what we do sometimes.

Thanks for reading.

Beautiful post Bob...

Thankfully, the intense pain and anguish that I felt has faded over the years for me...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We may not recover over time, but I can help meet my family's needs RIGHT NOW.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just wanted to comment on this... You and your W are still very early on in your rebuilding process... Try to focus on the facts and not the "What If" questions of the future.

I have a good feeling that you and your lovely W WILL recover over time. She is with you now... Your family is still intact... You are both learning and growing together... Focus on these facts and don't doubt in the power of Christ to heal your M.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Bob,

thanks so much for being so honest and direct on here.
Your experience is as I thought, and as I saw, more or less, happen in my H... I walked around in a daze and didn't eat or sleep for the first week, watching and imagining the hell H was going through, being the one who caused it, and being unable to do a thing to help.
It was absolutely the worst thing I have ever experienced.

Bingo, Bob! Thanks for the wonderfully written post. I sometimes wonder how I made it through those early days. I never want to feel those feelings ever again. Fogman definitely has no clue about my pain, he only cares about himself nowadays, complaining about how hard it is for him to not be with his family...blahblahblah...

Bob, as a FWW I just want to tell you I think your post is insightful and helpful to FWS’s to better understand the feelings and pain of a BS upon discovery and after that. I think your post is an honest and open expression of a BS’s thought and feelings. I’ve read the locked threads of 1 Nov and it was very shocking and disappointing to me, but I find this post of yours very appropriate and helpful since it is straight, direct and honest, but also careful and sensitive to the feelings of any FWS who may read. I have much appreciation for this. I think it’s important for BS’s and FWS’s to have understanding, compassion, sensitivity etc. for each other and all these things are evident in your post and your good attitude towards us FWS's. Thanks for that and thanks for sharing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

Well Bob, that's pretty much what I am experiencing at the moment. Thanks for putting it in black and white for me.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
MIF?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Suzet*:
<strong> ...I think it’s important for BS’s and FWS’s to have understanding, compassion, sensitivity etc. for each other and all these things are evident in your post and your good attitude towards us FWS's. Thanks for that and thanks for sharing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Suzet, the hardest thing for me was to realize my W's pain... As a BH/BW, it's so easy to get caught up in our own shame and pain. For me, once I recognized my W's own pain, it was easier for us to really start connecting with each other.

So many BS that visit here still have open, raw wounds... MC will help guide both the BS and WS as they learn new ways to connect with each other and rebuild thier M.

Again, Bob, great post!!! You 'da MAN!!!

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Oh, Bob, Once again great timing...

Was just trying to explain to my H this morning the wretchedness and terror I still contain daily. That he's had lots of time to get used to the idea of what has happened, but I have not. That despite the fact that he is honest now (tho still foggy), I have months or years of hearing the same words with different meanings attached. That I can't 'flip a switch' and just trust again.

I was sitting and staring and numb in my bed this morning hugging a firm pillow to my chest and gently rocking (so comforting) - lost in the swirl of thoughts and emotions of feeling like - at any moment - everything can change again - like it did in my world did not so long ago - like the shells are exploding all about me and could land on me at any moment and me huddled away in my corner of this emotional basement is really no protection at all.

I want to believe, I want to love, I want to trust, I want happiness in place of all this doubt and fear. Kind of a "tinkerbell" fantasy world is the only thing that keeps me going: If I just believe in it hard enough, it will happen.

I will be the center of his life again. He will be mine. We will live happily ever after. I will not be sad or frightened every day, putting on for the world that everything's gonna be OK. Faking it til I make it with trembling gush inside.

I come here to see I'm not alone and that it CAN be OK. I'm so sad that we all have shared this painful experience, but I am immeasurably grateful you are there for me.

Never thought I'd ever need another human being as much as this. (Ironic confession in a Marriage Builder Forum, isn't it?) It's humbling. I find out I NEED others. (more irony)It is also God's Grace that puts us here together.

Thanks again, Bob for a well-time and well-executed thread. I anticipate a ton of response.

In hope, again,
restarting

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and part of me will EVER be sad and lonely.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No.... you won't.

I'll post over on the Recovery Board to you. It will make more sense.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I wish I could share that with WW.
I've used many of the same words and descriptions when talking to her.
When I try to explain, she thinks me unreasonable.
She can't seem to comprehend my internal devastation.

But, I keep plugging away also.

Well done, Bob! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mr. Pure:

Very well done.

I want to add that my personal loss is the idea that everything I thought was sacred is not anymore. I am grieving the loss of everything that was unique among us. I grieve the idea that I used to look at my WW and knew she was there for me. It was so comforting knowing that she was behind me; knowing that we were one and that I could rely on her. It was beautiful to know there was nothing ominous between us, no secrets (that is what I thought), no malice. She was there and I loved knowing that she was my wife, the center of my existence. It is very hard to let go, how does one grieve the loss of so much in an instant?

I grieve because I loved her with no ideas of ever having another woman; however she had other plans and views on the subject. The loss of the innocence in a relationship is so deep that I wonder if we are fooling ourselves into thinking we can have it back. What we had is gone forever and now we cling to an illusion. We want it all back, but it can never be. This is much worse than losing a parent, a sibling, or even a child. This loss is so devastating that words cannot express the pain.

Like you on D-day I was cursed with the fact that I loved my wife and didn’t want to lose her. Yes Mr. Cure it is a curse that actually worsens and lengthens the pain over an eternity. At one point I was in such despair that I begged God to make my wife leave me so I wouldn’t have to face the pain of seeing her everyday knowing that she had betrayed me in such a devastating manner. And know I have come to grips with the concept of asking her to leave to see if she wants to make a life with the OM. I am convinced that if she stays I will mourn until the day I die. If she leaves my grieving has a chance to end.

<small>[ November 02, 2004, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: UnlovedMan ]</small>

BobP--- <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Your post brought tears to my eyes. My husband felt just like you. The pain that he felt was so, and is still is so intense. He, like you, could not eat, and lost like 15-pounds. He could not sleep, or work or function. I could not comprehend his pain, but now as time is gone by, and we are more in tune with each other, I cannot believe what I did to him. Believe me BobPure thatif I could go back intime I would shoot myself before inflicting that pain in my husband!!!!
I feel so sad, for what we have lost, the inoccence of our marriage is gone forever, because of ME <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> .
His love for me is so big that I think we are going to make it thru this, but things are lost forever. Your DD is very recent, it will get better, it has gotten better for us. But we still have a long way to go, to feel completely recovered. The most important thing is that if your wife loves you, you will be able to make it. My husband and I love each other, and our love ,our marriage of before DD will make us get thru this.
Your post was so descriptive and well written,it looks like my husband wrote it, because thats the way he felt too. I am sure he will agree with me.
I got shivers thru my body, because I could re-live all those emotions in my mind again, but now much more clearly. At the beginning when I was in the fog, I did not see all that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Thank you for sharing all this with us or I should say with Me!
MYRTA

Bob, once again, you have eloquently put into words your own experiences to help others on this board out. Kudos to you, man!

Hopefully in the near future I can put down into words both mine and brown's feelings (my perceptions) into living, breathing words, (that actually make some sense) that may help others.

Keep up the good work! And "work" it is! But, ah, the rewards! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I read your post was goin to go into detail ,, then think it might be best not to I may change my mind I do not know ...

The thing that struct me most was wanting to be inthe HEAD of a BS ,,, NOW as you put it ALL BS are different and yet the same ...

YES I felt all those things you discribe and yet still do ! Suprised ? I am different ...

They stay locked in a box where my heart use to be !

I am not saying this to depress any BS at all , but a true look inside ALL BS HEART , MIND , SOLO I do not think SOME WS can handle ..

YA see feelings are yours to own ,, they are not right or WRONG they are yours ,,,

If people think that a REACTION from a BS is to harsh or scarey thats a hard on for me cause they are true to them FOLLOW ...

Again for you , I think you did a wonderful job of stateing some of the FEELINGS and may sum it up for alot of BS ,,, In single words ... PAIN, Anger , dispointment , loss of love in god, distruction, hopelesness ect......

BUT the words does not discribe the INSIDE for me the imagination or the real nasty dirty thoughts that I incountered ... I know these are mine so of corse you can not no them ,,,

BUT I could never suger coat them , if I was to write them ...

And I top of them all I pushed them aside to deal with the PAIN of my FWS ,,, witch in turn caused more pain ,,,,
KNOWING in trueth I was hearing the pain of a person who was in reality enjoying them self while I was having a nervous break down ,,,

It was and is very diffucult to swallow that at times ...

I may get blasted but I feel (jmo) that recovery is not 50/50 I belive the BS could only recovery from this if the WS is doing and giving MORE in time ...

I know its hard to compare PAIN whos was worse ,, and people choose not to do so ... BUT I do .

I am /was the victom I do not say that for pity ever just with honesty .. a crime was commited and I was on the recieving end with no choose ...

The same as walking down the street with my bank deposit and some one puts a gun to my head and says give me your money ?? Whats the coice get shot or turn it over ? WOW what a choice ..

Great post though !I mean that !
3

bob,

I think many WS have asked and recieved a description of this agony. Collectively as BS we share so many of these experiences and they are so devastating that these descriptions pop up over and over and are contained in most "my story" threads. It's impossible to tell our stories without talking about it because the life change was so traumatic and abrupt. The nausea, sleeplessness, hopelessness, images...it's overwhelming at first. The chronicles of devastation are peppered all over this board and the similarities are frightening and often repeated.

It's hard to understand why knowing we aren't the only ones to have experienced this sort of thing....gives us some comfort. It's not that we would wish this on anyone...but there is some comfort in knowing we aren't alone when we feel so isolated.

It is at those times of hopelessness....in those early stages of recovery right after d-day that hope is so essential for both the BSs and the WSs. That message of hope is one of the things that draws people to this site because the majority of people who come here have been visited by infidelity and are looking for hope, direction, comfort, support, and also redemption. I remember reading the first message of hope I got on this site where Willard Harley said he had made a wonderful discovery that marriages could survive and thrive after infidelity. That message of hope kept me coming here. And it has helped me stay here.

As BSs....it feels as though we lose everything on d-day and that feeling is so real that we believe it...but it isn't true. At that point, it doesn't matter if it's true, because the loss of trust you speak of....rocks our world and makes us question everything. The loss of innocence and the belief that our lives can't be touched by ugliness is truly gone forever.

Unfortunately, talking about infidelity has many "trigger" words that can undermine our ability to heal and to help others. Some words will trigger us...some will trigger others. But loaded words that express blame, shame, damnation etc. cause particularly high emotions. Alot of that happened yesterday...and the result was predictable. I'm sorry for any contribution I made to that.

Peggy Vaughn (Dear Peggy...grand dame of marital therapy) has this to say about how we "talk" about infidelity:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Trying to recover from a partner's extramarital affair is made more difficult by the "loaded" words most often used to discuss this situation. The emotions are usually so intense that it's very difficult to think straight. Unfortunately, the words that are most commonly used only serve to inflame the already raw emotions created by this experience.

We need to raise our awareness of the impact of words and make a conscientious effort to defuse the personal pain caused by the language we use to discuss affairs. Because of the power of words to affect the way we think, in "The Monogamy Myth" I deliberately avoided the long list of judgmental, blaming words so common to the language of affairs. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fantasizing about what kinds of things would be ample compensation or what punishment people are deserving of....are bound to contain "loaded" words, and are in fact, not a very healthy strategy for overcoming infidelity or helping BS and WS alike to rebuild their marriages. Trying to fight fire with gasoline doesn't help either. The path to forgiveness and healing is a rocky road...but the right path is one that helps us understand each other, our spouses and create an environment where everybody benefits. Most of us are committed to staying with our spouses, so it only stands to reason, that trying to understand rather than punish...trying to forgive rather than retaliating is the best first step. It begins in our MINDS, our fantasies, and our HOPES for recovery. It begins with the first step of forgiveness which is a refusal to harbor hate and hateful thoughts.

Truthfully, while I could so easily identify with all your descriptions of d-day, I can honestly say that I didn't ever believe that I wouldn't/couldn't forgive my husband or that my life was over. There was no way I could look at my children and not see hope...even then. I wasn't sure I would stay with him, so my marriage was perhaps over...but I felt as though I would find forgiveness even if divorce insued.

You also mentioned this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Guilt, fear, unworthiness, self-loathing, embarrassment, humilation, indignation, hatred of self, others, the world, God - there is NO negative sensation that is not experienced FULL ON by a BS and we go from everything to nothing in a milisecond.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of these...probably the only one I felt was fear...mostly fear that it would happen again...but I didn't suddenly hate myself...at that moment...I hated my spouse. I thought very badly of him...I disrespected him and I wondered if I could ever really love him again.

Dr. Harley talks alot about "compensation" and "forgiveness"...but like most marriage therapists...not about "punishment". He has this to say:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As it turns out, in every affair there is a way to adequately compensate the offended spouse that is good for the offender and good for the marriage. At first, the offended spouse may not want to be compensated. He or she may try to get as far away from the offender as possible to avoid further pain. But if the spouse asks for forgiveness along with a willingness to compensate, the offended spouse is usually willing to entertain the proposal.

But forgiveness is still necessary even after compensation is made. That's because there's really nothing that can completely compensate for the betrayal of infidelity. Even after compensation is made, there is still the need to forgive. But it's sure makes a lot more sense after the unfaithful spouse makes an effort to restore the relationship.

Using this meaning of forgiveness, the person asking to be forgiven must first demonstrate an awareness of how inconsiderate the act was and how much pain his or her spouse was made to suffer. Second, he or she must express some plan to assure the forgiver that steps have been taken to avoid the painful act in the future. Extraordinary precautions to never see or talk to the former lover, and to avoid circumstances that might ignight an new affair should be part of the plan for recovery. And another part of the plan is for both spouses to meet each other's unmet emotional needs that may have given the unfaithful spouse a "reason" to be unfaithful. As it turns out, it's the successful completion of that plan that's the compensation that leads to "forgiveness." Learning to meet each other's most important emotional needs is the plan that usually does the trick.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If we can concentrate or "conpensation" and "forgiveness" instead of revisiting pain and lashing out...the road to recovery is far shorter and far more peaceful. Afterall, this is such a dark place that dropping anchor here any longer than necessary is very deflating. Obviously, that's hardest for folks who have unremorseful spouses, or spouses who don't end affairs...but even for them, maybe ESPECIALLY for them...this shift in perspective is by far the healthiest thing they can do for their own recovery.

Blessings to you bob.

Bob,

Excellent piece of writing. I especially like THE BEST description of what the end result of a properly executed Plan B should look and feel like.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The vastness of the betrayal and destruction is missing: the overwhelming immediate, looming perspective of utter hopelessness that BS see in that fateful second on d-day is never experienced nor even comprehended by WS IMO </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If Plan B is implemented with the totality, suddeness and completeness in all facets IT SHOULD LEAVE THE WS EXACTLY LIKE THE BS IN YOUR ABOVE QUOTE.

Only if it is delivered with this seemingless brutality will it be effective. The plan B must take away all the confidence,dreams, hopes,allusions, aspirations, eroticism, and stability ( psychological and financial)from the WS in one breath gulping swoop. That same " fatefull second" must be experienced in order to shock the haywire mental system of the WS. But similar to the periodic shocks we give when using a heart defibrilator, we sometimes need to reinforce that kick to the solar plexus . Usually after the WS has recovered from the initial counter attack, and then prn (medical lingo for as needed).

Great post Bob.

Bob,

I think you've spoken for a lot of the people on this board - you've certainly spoken for me.

One of the things I told my wife on D-Day is that the A had made clear to me that the only person I could trust or rely on completely is ME.

That's an incredibly lonely feeling - and one that few people who haven't experienced it can really understand.

UnlovedMan wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And know I have come to grips with the concept of asking her to leave to see if she wants to make a life with the OM. I am convinced that if she stays I will mourn until the day I die. If she leaves my grieving has a chance to end.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is exactly what I went through. I knew that if WH stayed in our M while the A was still a fantasy and he was still "in love" with OW, I could never truly heal. So I let him go. Now I've come to the realization, though, that we are DONE. Even if he came begging for me to take him back, I couldn't. I DO want the A to end, though, no matter what. I NEED it to end.

Bob Pure,

I copied your post and sent it to my WH to try to explain some of my feelings, emotions and pain (hope you don't mind - of course didn't say who or where it came from). Of course he still doesn't get it at all. Tried to say that he was experiencing the same pain and emotions before the A, which was "the main reason he found it elsewhere." Whatever............... Told him he will NEVER understand until it happens TO HIM.

Star

Thanks for commenting.
While I agree that many or most early posts rom BS contain some allusion to their agony, I have never seen a post-agony dissection of the sensations and effects. I honestly felt thi smay help some WS and BS to understand the extent of the devastation. I was WRACKED writing it; It took three seperate sessions with many tears and sobs between them.

I am not in any way excusing BS bhaviour because we feel bad but I think that all behaviour has a context for good or evil, and that the BS context has not been 'academically' displayed before.

Offending vulnerable posters is unthinking at best but I fear I MUST crack the 'myth' that committed BS like myself are some sort of holier beings who can soak up endless spite and humilation without ever responding in kind while we wait patiently upon the caprice of an A-active WS.

Noodle's post was brutal and in WAY the wrong thread but was just a manifestation of the contained justified spite we BS carry with us until we are truly recovered. Maybe for ever in fact... * sigh *

Sorry if you feel my post was surplus to requirements or inapprorpiate Star. I only ask PLEASE that your thorough knowlegde of MC doesn;t blind you to the entirely understandable outlashings of BS or WS from time to time. Correction not universal slating was in order from such a respected poster as yourself IMO.

(((star)))

others, I hope it helps. If you fin dit offensive please tell me and I will delete it. This expression IN NO WAY mitigates my real love for FWS friends on this board. And they know that. Its is ALL of our aspirations to move past this horrible place. Those that HAVE arrived are wonderful examples for those if us earlier in our journeys. Recovered FWS and BS have no labels but "happy" and "blessed".{{{FWS friends}}}