Hi Bob and all,

Just wanted to add another emotion that I felt on dday. Relief. I'd known something was wrong, but was being told that it was nothing, my imagination. Spent months feeling insane; honestly had the urge to steer myself into the jersey barrier on my way home from work. Had visions of running full speed into the wall, just to get some relief. And that was what I felt when my H told me of his A. It was like hitting that wall or that barrier, with all its accompanying pain.... but the relief was there too. You all know, " Aha, I knew there was something. I'm not crazy. It all makes sense. etc " To finally know what was and had been wrong was a gift.

I just remember that not every feeling was devastating, some were blessed, once the truth was out.
Jenny

Jenny , thank you that was the GREAT FEELING I had ,,,, TO ME IT WAS CALLED

"Knowing I am RIGHT and NOW I WILL SEE IF I WANT TO BE M "

Well "I am right and am M " LOL

FM if your lurking that ones for you LOL I know you got a chuckel the first time ya heard me say it ,, so always looking to make someone LOL

Bob,

Great post!!

Noodle's post was brutal and in WAY the wrong thread but was just a manifestation of the contained justified spite we BS carry with us until we are truly recovered. Maybe for ever in fact... * sigh *

Noodle's post was brutal..ly honest and accurate. Her style of prose strikes deep into our hearts. Unfortunately, I agree it was harsh on that thread with DC looking for support after her confession. Noodle may have been having a blue day.

Your post was also very accurate. When WS reads the words, they cannot remotely comprehend what they have done to us.

And I think forever is correct. I do not see the vacant heaviness in my heart ever going away. Heartsick depressing sadness is always lurking just beneath the trivial everyday things.

kj

Everything that was said so far, RELIEF included. I actually started laughing during my uncontrollable sobbing, really threw my FIL & BIL who were there supporting me for a loop. It was kind of like one of those laughs of a madman you see on the movies. It was the realization that I had not been crazy the last 1/2 year. That was the reason I was so mistreated.

Pretty weird stuff, even today I am glad it happened. Not the A and everything that went with it. No, that our problems, everything keeping us from being a happy couple was finally out in the open. Now it just a matter of putting the pieces back together. A difficult puzzle to solve.

Bob, your post should be required reading for all WS. I wish there was a law. You hit it right on the head.

I want to add one last item to that list though. This is for BH. I also felt like my manhood had been ripped from me. Maybe it is social stereotyping, and I do not mean to diminish any BW pain, but through years of TV, movies, etc. we have been inundated with the image of the philandering husband. Bill Clinton, JFK, JR Ewing, etc. But when a H loses his wife to OM, ooooooh man, makes you want to tear someone apart.

When a W gets cheated on, the other women say, "what a scum, he doesn't deserve you anyway." When a H gets cheated on it's, "Hey did you her about (BH), couldn't keep her happy, blah,blah,blah" and the humiliation starts. My perspective, it feels different from this side of the aisle, that's all.

Do other BH feel the same way, and is it different for BW? How?

BP...yet another lucid & poignant dissertation. This and your "Each of Us is Alone in This Life" posts are masterful!

You are the B.B. King of "Infidelity Blues"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe this is one reason why WS possibly can never understand the devastation visited upon a BS.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course we can't, until we have walked in your shoes. That is the same for any pain, losing a child, going through cancer, alcoholics, one can't possibly understand the devastation, unless they themselves are going through it.

That is why MB is so good, this is a community of those who are suffering and recovering from infidelity and they can share their pain, with people who actually know what it is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There are absolutely no positive attributions to the Affair for a BS.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course their isn't, and I'm sure no WS thinks so. It is so sad how that factor doesn't come into the mind of a WS until their A has run its course. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> By contrast the BS loses everything in a millisecond. EVERYTHING. Hope, trust, love, faith, future, past, breath. EVERYTHING. We are TRULY and UTTERLY broken : dysfunctional: hopeless. Helpless.Loveless. Godless. Dead but walking.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I didn't feel this, but I did see it, I could almost smell it as well, it existed as a life itself in that room on DDAY.

It hurts to see it, to see the one you love, yet the one you betrayed go through this, all because of your choice to cheat.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The vastness of the betrayal and destruction is missing: the overwhelming immediate, looming perspective of utter hopelessness that BS see in that fateful second on d-day is never experienced nor even comprehended by WS IMO.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The vastness of betrayal....

Here is a quote from The Power of a Praying Wife- Stormie Omartian,

Open Stormie's mouth and out pour my words.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know what it's like to feel the kind of despair that paralyzes good decision making. I've experienced the degree of hopelessness that causes a person to give up on trying to do what's right. I understand the torture of loneliness that leaves you longing for anyone who will look into your soul and see you. I've felt pain so bad that the fear of dying from it propelled me to seek out the only immediately foreseeable means of survival, escape from the source of agony. I know what it's like to contemplate acts of desperation because you see no future. I've experienced such a buildup of negative emotions day after day, year after year that separation and divorce seemed like nothing more than the promise of pleasant relief. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm going to put it all out here today, I'm going to step out of my comfort zone, and say a few things, I will just have to take the 2x4's.

Let me try to keep it about me and my opinion based on my circumstance, I will try not to generalize too much, as the WS gets in trouble for that. (oh, there I go) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It seems to me the BS feels there is no build up there is no past for the WS. For me it was 9 years of build up that led to my lousy decision. I sucked it up for 9 years, not 6 months, but 9 years of abuse, sexual, and emotional, and there was also neglect, disrespect, complete lack of adoration, and total control. I was kept financially, yet everyday I chose to love this selfish abusive man I was married to.

I loved him good, I was his biggest fan despite how he made me feel. I was the ultimate submissive W. I always felt if I just do it better, I will get something from him. I lived for that moment in the week or month, when he did notice me, when he did praise me for my efforts. I made myself happy, I forced it, he loved me, he really did, he just took full advantage of everything good in me.

I was in pain, for years, he never even noticed. I feel that the BS on board doesn't want to hear any of this, it is all chalked up to justifying, we are to keep quiet about the "state" of our M, it is all focused on the betrayal. We did our S wrong, nobody wants to hear about the years of bad choices my H made.

I chose an A, he chose to hold me down and take sex from me. Which one is worse, 5 years of constant behavior such as this or my 6 month A. Am I justifying, maybe, but I didn't just wake up one day from a perfect M, and sleep with the guy down the road.

Why didn't I speak up, I was his W. I was treated in a way that I felt I had no voice. Oh, yeah, I wish I would have handled it different, but I was afraid of him, I was controlled by him.

I have played over many scenerios in my head that I could have done, but I didn't, that is the sad truth of it. I told him, I was drifting, I told him over and over, you can't treat me this way. He had so little respect for me, it didn't matter. I didn't know how to earn his respect, how to get him to appreciate me and treat me well, instead of like a sex slave.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> For WEEKS after that revelation we have no hope </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had no hope for years, I thought that was my destiny, I didn't deserve any better, I was not worth anymore than what this man was giving me.

Yes, yes, I should have handled it differently, I didn't know how. So seriously, for the first time in my M life, I became selfish and I did what felt good, I escaped, I cheated my H.

Go ahead and thrash me for justifying, I find it unfair, how the BS always gets to spill his heart out and we shower them, rightly so with empathy, but the WS, gets the 2x4.

I was sinful in my A, but does that justify his right to slam me across the face and beat the tar out of OM's house and truck with a crowbar? Some here seem to think so, yet we can't justify our A by the state of our M.

Bob Pure, I didn't find your post offensive, I just seen it as an opportunity to maybe enlighten you all as to the insight and pain of one FWS.

Hear my story, that is all I'm asking. See me for the woman I am now, today, not the fact that I was a WS. Know my situation. I am a great mom, a great wife, and a great friend. I love with all my heart, I have very strict morals, but I am human, and I do sin.

My H has forgiven me completely and I have him. Our lives are completely different, and I thank God for that.

It is all so one sided here, just remember the WS is human, and we feel pain too, it might not have been an explosion of pain on DDAY, but we have pain also.

I am personally so sorry for what every single BS feels on DDAY and after. If I could set down with each of your WS and talk sense to them I would. I want you all to recover I also want you to know that there is a story to every WS.

Ky

Go ahead and thrash me for justifying, I find it unfair, how the BS always gets to spill his heart out and we shower them, rightly so with empathy, but the WS, gets the 2x4.


If I had thought for one second that my post would have hurt you KY I would have broken my keyboard first. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I wanted to once and for all explain what MAY have led to folks like Noodle and Mel saying the things they did.

BS are not saints despite the pedastal we are placed on here sometimes, no more that YOU are the unrescuable sinners FWS are sometimes portrayed as.

I said I cannot possibly see into your head but YOU (particularly KY) have helped me have SOME empathy for how my FWW might feel and think so I can act in the absence of direct communication from her. This has been WONDERFULLY useful for me and others.

In the same way that you feel that BS get to whinge a lot while FWS get 2x4's, I feel that the board gets SICK of BS mewling and puking and we should get on with our lives, and NEVER say anything nasty or controversial after all its our job sto rescue our poor, helpless FWS.

What bollocks ! Fact is KY once we hit recovery thse labels become meaningless. We are just poor b@stards trying to recover our lives from a bad sitch. We hurt BAD but differently and I had not seen an exposition of BS hurt NEARLY as articulate as any of yours, Jen's or Sad FWWs for example.

I am SO SORRY if this hurts it was never my intent. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Now can you suggest something choccy for my missus at Christmas please ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

{{{{KY & WONDERFUL FWS WHO I MAY HAVE HURT }}}}

<small>[ November 02, 2004, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

My sweet Bob Pure, you didn't hurt me. I just used this opportunity to express some of what I have went through. I thought it appropriate but maybe it wasn't. I guess I stained your thread.

I will still wear my Bob Pure fan club shirt, not today, I got chocolate on it, so it is in the wash.

Lots of MB love for you.
Ky

Adultery is the most selfish, destructive and hateful thing a person can do.

It's funny what you don't know going in.

Or what you chose to ignore.

And it's tragic that you don't realize until it's too late, until what's done is done, how utterly wasted a life can be. How hopeless hopeless can become. How the promise and joy of life can slip like water through guilty hands.

Hell is merely realizing what you've done.

Mostly to others, but ultimately to yourself.

Hell is the flash of memory, snippets and snapshots of a happy spouse, a newlywed or new mother, pleased and pledged, her future and hopes tied to you. Her whole life in all its stages gambled on you. The very nature, substance and quality of her life, through all its years, depending on a promise you have casually or repeatedly broken.

How you can take and hour or a decade of selfishness and condemn an innocent person to a lifetime of loneliness and disappointment.

How you can steal someone's dream and leave it tattered and stained, unrecognizable and unsalvageable. And not just any someone. The one person who has given you more than any other. The only one who truly understands you and cares about you, and who proved it by giving herself to you. By having faith in you and supporting you. By taking your name and taking your fate.

That's the one you destroy.

It's an emotional murder. The snuffing out of a life that should have been lived. Not the stopping of a heart, but the breaking of a heart. Taking the "happily" out of "happily ever after". It's an emotional murder.

And that's the hell.

For you because you deserve it, and for her because she doesn't.

Then there are the children.

Innocents whose lives are forever and unfairly changed. Who have a mommy and a daddy one day, but not the next. At least not in a real way. Not in the way they are supposed to. No Christmases and family reunions and weddings and graduations, no family nights around the dinner table or the TV, it's all just shattered and broken.

You'd kill someone who hurt your children a fraction of how badly you've hurt them, and yet you've done it, and they tell you it's OK but you know it's not and you've done it and you can't run away from it and Humpty Dumpty can't be put back together again.

And children cry.

When they are young, and decades later when they are old.

The family died, and daddy did it.

That's the hell.

Realizing that.

Realizing that you did that to them. That you've returned hate for love, betrayal for trust, evil for good.

You have broken the only promise you really had to keep. And in the world of cause and effect they reap the harvest you have sown.

Adultery isn't something you do with another person, it is something you do to your family. To the hopes and lives of the only people who will ever really matter to you.

It is a blind and hateful selfishness, a universe out of kilter, an arrogance of priority and interest. You are all that matters, nothing else counts, and you have everything backwards.

And it seals you off until you are alone and they don't have you even if you are in their midst. Ultimately you rot so much that it collapses, the marriage and the family, and out you spin, not realizing a fraction of what you've done and who you've hurt and what you've lost.

But it comes eventually. In the dark of the night, in the realizations of the soul, in the honesty of humility.

And you can't think about what you've lost, because you're too ashamed of what you've taken. Ashamed and anguished and wrong.

And that is hell. The realization of what you've done. Of who you've hurt.
Of the damage you've caused. Of the fact that it will never go away.

That is the lake of fire and brimstone.

You realize that life was a test.

And you failed.

You failed your family.

Adultery brings nothing but sorrow and pain. The likes of which words cannot communicate and imagination cannot conjure.

"Thou shalt not commit adultery" was not a restriction, it was a warning.

Which only fools fail to heed.

-by Bob Lonsberry 2004

Bob,
Thank you very much for your response.

Thanks for commenting.
While I agree that many or most early posts rom BS contain some allusion to their agony, I have never seen a post-agony dissection of the sensations and effects. I honestly felt thi smay help some WS and BS to understand the extent of the devastation. I was WRACKED writing it; It took three seperate sessions with many tears and sobs between them.

I remember feeling the same way as I recounted my story to folks on JFO. I had to do it in increments because it made me sick with sorrow and seemed to resurrect every awful feeling that occurred during those times. My H had multiple affairs...so I can really relate to very much that you've written.

The majority of posts like this are probably on JFO, and it's a always a heartbreaking read. There is no doubt that it raises memories even for those of us who have put some time and distance between these feelings and now. It was beautifully written and obviously from the heart.

(((((((((((bob))))))))))))))

I am so sorry this happened to you.

I am not in any way excusing BS bhaviour because we feel bad but I think that all behaviour has a context for good or evil, and that the BS context has not been 'academically' displayed before.

I guess it's kind of the academics of emotion in this case. Gosh sometimes, it seems an overwhelming amount of pain on these boards. Some days are worse than others. It weighs all of us down sometimes. Yesterday was a bad day.

Offending vulnerable posters is unthinking at best but I fear I MUST crack the 'myth' that committed BS like myself are some sort of holier beings who can soak up endless spite and humilation without ever responding in kind while we wait patiently upon the caprice of an A-active WS.

Noodle's post was brutal and in WAY the wrong thread but was just a manifestation of the contained justified spite we BS carry with us until we are truly recovered. Maybe for ever in fact... * sigh *

Is there really a myth? Is there really a conspiracy to make us lose every shred of dignity we have left. Or are BS (like you and me) so low when we get here that things like Plan A seem like the stupidest strategy we have ever heard???? and like people just DON'T "get it" because if they did...they would never suggest the stuff they do?

My initial response when I first arrived here... was "You want me to do WHAT?? You have GOT to be out of your mind! This man just betrayed me in the worst way possible and I am NOT gonna kiss his nether parts!" Instead of being urged to voice, express, vent, rage etc....I got never ending posts about how we can only change ourselves, how love busting works against us, how even though our spouse had the affair...somehow I had the responsibility to change..because I was the one here. I kept thing "Right! What kind of a deal is THAT?"

It's frustrating...maddening and there are some days during recovery where everyone of us wants to scream and rage about it...folks around here even let us do that from time to time until they think we're getting "stuck"...then the 2X4 brigade comes along and says "come on star" and tries something to empower me again or put me on a more peaceful healthy path towards healing and forgiving. I resisted it. Most BS will resist it. Afterall, we aren't saints, and we have just been thoroughly devastated...and by golly we're pissed off about it. And furthermore...those WS "ought to pay for it!" It's not fair...and it's never ever going to be fair. And yet...these concepts..these plans...these strategies slowly dragged me out of the agony and into the light (okay, there was some kicking and screaming).

Venting and being angry is a little different though when we just post a thread and get it all out and express our anger...it is a little harder to deal with, if it's expressed in such a way to be hurtful to other posters who are also hurting.

It's understandable, it happens all the time...but it really can harm other people in different stages of healing. As you say, that post by Noodle yesterday...as a stand alone post would not have created much furor....many people would understand feelings like that. One of my hardest hurdles was the dealing with the fact that my husband had lived happily and guilt free during all the time I knew nothing of his affair. Even after...it sure seemed like he got a better deal than I did. It was a bitter pill to swallow and I wanted to see suffering. Why? Because I felt as though suffering was the ONLY way to believe he was remorseful. Remorse came...it did...but not when I expected it to...not when I needed it the most. It was a long time and suffered for a long time waiting for it...needing it.

But directing a post at someone else....who is really just a surrogate for our pain...can cause well...pretty high emotions and hard feelings. In this particular instance, it seemed in direct contradiction to our messages that a WS SHOULD confess and that their life would be redeemed.

Sorry if you feel my post was surplus to requirements or inapprorpiate Star.

I felt nothing like this. All BS have a need to express these things...it is part of our rites of passage...our catharsis. It is fantastic that you have been able to do this in a way that helps you, helps others, but doesn't harm anyone else. It is not surplus bob...it is wonderful.

I only ask PLEASE that your thorough knowlegde of MC doesn;t blind you to the entirely understandable outlashings of BS or WS from time to time. Correction not universal slating was in order from such a respected poster as yourself IMO.

I agree that there will be understandable, random outlashings on this board as long as it remains in existence....it will never go away. It is safest, and fairest if those vents and rages are not directed at a particular poster...though sometimes they will be. When a particular poster...in this case...dc...has already been pretty severely dealt with...it's hard, and I can only speak for me, not to speak up bob. Yes, as BS we are the walking wounded, and WS are sitting ducks. It takes alot of courage to come on a MB site as a WS...and yet, in part, they are a HUGE piece of this puzzle. If we can't reach waywards...this agony we feel...will be repeated over and over and all around us. We can't change the world...but we can affect the small sphere that we are in here. That is worth doing...well I believe it is worth doing.


others, I hope it helps. If you fin dit offensive please tell me and I will delete it. This expression IN NO WAY mitigates my real love for FWS friends on this board. And they know that. Its is ALL of our aspirations to move past this horrible place. Those that HAVE arrived are wonderful examples for those if us earlier in our journeys. Recovered FWS and BS have no labels but "happy" and "blessed".{{{FWS frends}}}

Bob....I in no way find this post at ALL offensive in any way. It is honest. It is real and I'm sure you spoke for a lot of people today...in fact they said so. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was in pain, for years, he never even noticed. I feel that the BS on board doesn't want to hear any of this, it is all chalked up to justifying, we are to keep quiet about the "state" of our M, it is all focused on the betrayal.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This part of your post, is generally not true ... in my experience on MB.

That is why we advise the BS to "Plan A" ... because we recognize the BS has (at least part) responsibility for the pre-A breakdown in the marriage relationship.

We, as a group, guided Bob Pure to Plan A his wife while he put aside his pain and devestation because Bob recognized his prior complacency in his marriage.

The rest of your post was wonderful to read.

But, this part ... I think you are incorrect.

Pep

<small>[ November 02, 2004, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was in pain, for years, he never even noticed. I feel that the BS on board doesn't want to hear any of this, it is all chalked up to justifying, we are to keep quiet about the "state" of our M, it is all focused on the betrayal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This part of your post, is generally not true ... in my experience on MB.

That is why we advise the BS to "Plan A" ... because we recognize the BS has (at least part) responsibility for the pre-A breakdown in the marriage relationship.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, I see your point, but (don't you love them) What I'm saying is The WS history is not welcomed. I don't know anybody's history of a WS, we only hear of the BS.

This is my story, you have read it, what if I had posted this my first post. I would have been justifying and that is it. I would have been hammered with, take responsibility for your actions, nothing justifies an A, you made the choice.

Yes, we have Plan A (which I love, no not because I'm on the receiving end, silly) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think it is brilliant, and I believe it can and does work.

But, (dang, there it is again) when a BS does plan A, we aren't normally hearing from the WS, we have only heard the BS story and history.

The part you quoted, I was talking about when a WS is on board. They are not allowed to express their feelings or lay out the facts of the state of their M.

This is when the 2x4's come. Why can't we hear their story? Why do we have to de-humanize the WS, why are they only the monster?

All I'm saying is let's listen to the story, let's hear the WS, so they can heal. So we see them as human beings, not just as somebody who hurt one of the BS's.

I love MB, I love the principles. I believe we as a group can really make a difference to BS and to WS, but we need to come together and realize we are all human. We need to see each other as individuals, and not draw the line between WS and BS.

We are all here for the same reason, to recover and rebuild a marriage.

Let's help each other heal.

KY

KY: Just wanted to tell you that you had a couple of beautiful, beautiful posts. I think I am still feeling guilty for putting my M in that position.

Bob: Good thread. Thanks. You do have a way with words, it's good to have you here, just unfortunate it has to be under these circumstances.

RH

Sorry Bob, I've send this post to the wrong thread.

<small>[ November 03, 2004, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

I can't speak about other people's OMs , only the one on my situation.

Being as unemotional as possible I would not like him even if he had not had an affair with my FWW.

* He is a serial womanizer with a trail of broken Ms behind him
* he has abandoned the children he had with his 3 XWs to the extent that he knew almost nothing of the son who so tragically died in a car accident two months ago. NOTHING.
* Every XW and his current long term partner wee 'stolen' from stable relationships - OM GF even told me her ex was a better man.
* He has claimed unemployment benefit since 1990 and lived off his XW and GFs earnings, augmented by his pown petty crime ( illegal 'chipped' cable boxes, pirate videos, CDS and DVDs, fake branded clothing etc etc).
* He persuaded my FWW that I was a no-good person by telling her indefendable untruths.
* He boasted to his sports buddies about his 'conquest' of my FWW to the extent that everyone while he was telling her " he would love her forever, only she has ever really understood him" etc etc

* At the same time he was convincing my FWW that sex would cement their love, he was reconiling hard with his GF - booking weekends away and buying flowers. In fact he made two copies of a pirate love songs CD - gave one to my FWW "you have my heart", and one to his GF " you have my heart". He told my FWW he was splitting with his GF and having terrible problems, at the same time he was telling her he loved her and wanted to rediscover their love.

So while my FWW was absolutely responsible for having the affair, she was hit on by an extremely practiced and deliberate player with no intention of doing anything but being flattered by and having sex with my FWW. He knew thorugh experience that she wa svulnerable to 'attack' owing to my failure to meet her ENs recently.

OM GF told me much or most of this. She loves him despite his failings.

Now these are facts, I could add lots of opinion but will not.

I refuse to accept OM in our sitch is a decent man, and I will not have him spoken of in respectful terms.

I pray for the day that my FWW looks at the facts and sees how they offset her opinion somewhat.
That my wife told me, in fog,that he was my "exact opposite" : I have never been so flattered in my life.

I have never commented on any other OP.

I don't hate OM just because he had a A with my wife, I actually think he is a generally scummy person too. In part that HELPS because I am not threatened by him. Then again it HURTS because I must have REALLY missed teh mark as a husband for an unpleasant man like him to find a way into my FWWS heart and underwear.

I have learned from the lovely FWS on here that it takes time for a FWW to lose romantic or positive associations for OM/OP and I am grateful for that.

However I can't read nice respectful posts about OPs. I don't comment, I just don't read them.

All blessings

<small>[ November 03, 2004, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Originally posted by kyellow4:
The part you quoted, I was talking about when a WS is on board. They are not allowed to express their feelings or lay out the facts of the state of their M.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You described 9 years of abuse from your husband. You said "sexual" and "emotional".

If you came to MB from either side of the fence stating 9 years of sexual and emotional abuse... you would likely have been advised to get out of the home to a safe place.

The affair, no matter if you were a BS or a WS would be a secondary issue to the 9 years of abuse.

Pep

<small>[ November 03, 2004, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Bob - like you, it has always been so clear to me and the others who know of the facts regarding A of what the OP really is and the OP's role and intentions in the A, but it has taken some time for my H to see. Our M has been blessed today (two very long months after Dday)that H has begun to see, if not yet fully feel, the reality of the situation as it truly was, rather than how he had prefered to see it.

I know it's been hard for him. Most of the time, I've been patient and understanding, and when not understanding, compassionate at least. (I must, in self-honesty acknowledge that I've also had those moments where my own bitterness and resentment have surfaced and set us back)

After all, it is pretty devastating to realize and acknowledge that you've made such huge mistake. It is really hard to be honest with yourself when the things you're acknowledging are so very unpretty and so much damage left to repair! We've all been there is some fashion, where we realize how foolishly we had behaved or chosen, but this particular type of event leaves one much more shaken regarding your choices, your actions, the repercussions and consequences, the scope of hurt you are responsibile for... it takes time for the WS themselves to adjust and accept, and yes, to forgive themselves.

Knowing this doesn't always give me the comfort I need and seek, but it does most of the time. Like someone else here has said (wish I could honor with a quote and credit), acceptance happens in steps and not all at once. We, as BSs, must also know that it is not only us who are learning to accept what has happened - the WS is going through it, too.

I'm so happy I found this site and SH's books! The observations and recommendations of SH's system is a system that works for anyone who will work it. (Even if, like me, you even slip up some times) The basic concept of Kindness in the face of hurt and Boundaries in the face of your desparation to please and recapture when it's the LAST thing you're inclined to do, well, need I say more?

Personally, I'm still learning and practicing at the other concepts and still in hope of a healthier, happier and better marriage than I ever had before.

Hope, Faith, Works....

restarting

bump

Bob,
I feel like God Himself had touched your hand to put into words those feelings of a BS after d-day. Your words are filled with empathy, symathy, pain, hope, encouragement, and of course love - Love for your FWW, your Family, Yourself and for all others (BS's and WS's) that have ever experienced such "unspeakable" pain.

I have yet to truly put into words how *I* felt/feel about my FWH's EA. I try my best not to think or feel anything about it - quite frankly, because it hurts; anyway I look at it.

I thank you for the words I couldn't or didn't want to express to my H. I thank you for the thoughts that have been provoked within me, by you exposing yourself to all of us with all the rawness of any fresh wound. I know you'll be grand Dear Bob and I know you'll be blessed - for your words have been a blessing to me (and probably many others).

Brown

Bob Pure and Others:

I too had the feelings expressed on this board. For a moment, I felt like I needed to die too. I read later, BS's really don't want to kill themselves but they want to kill the pain.

I was able to forgive my FWW early on because the affair caused me to do a lot os inner soul serching. I know I brought my fair share of pain to my wife over a 20 year period, no affairs, but marriage and life battles, etc. and I took strong stances fill with pride etc. Even though the level of pain I caused did not meet the pain of DD, I brought pain to my wife many times in our marriage.

When we look ourselves in the mirror with reality, it makes it much more difficult not to forgive our WS's for their serious mistakes. I think the forgiveness allows us a chance to put the issue away to some degree.

The challenge now is having my FWW forgive herself. She maintains a very low self esteem as a result of her affair. Her inner self worth causes ongoing issues. Her confidence as a mother and wife are basically at the bottom of the barrell. The price of her affair continues on. I have my setbacks but I am looking for a long term future with my wife.

On the other hand, I don't think I could give her another chance if she opts to renew her relationship with the OM since she is now completely out of the fog. If renewed, I believe I would not fight her or even be as devistated in the second round, but I would accept the fact that I am not who she wants.

Just my thoughts for this thread.

TooSoon