Hello everyone,

I have a question, and the answer will affect my Plan A/B. What if your spouse shut themselves of emotionally from you, and didn't allow you to meet thier emotional needs? And then they have an A, and then fog-babble about how thier needs were never met, and now they "just don't feel any love anymore"?

Thats what basically happened in my situation, and I confronted my WW about it. She agreed that she probably didn't allow me to meet EN(after accusing me for weeks of not meeting them), and says she doesn't know why. But she says that she was madly in love with me prior to that...

She didn't allow me to meet EN for 3-4 years (time between 1st A and 2nd A)...

Now she is 2 1/2-3 hrs away, doesn't call to even talk to the kids, and she comes to see them once or twice a month...and OM is in jail (I provide these details for those who haven't read my other threads). I don't know how to meet her EN under these circumstances, and I know one of the major ones is "intimacy".

She won't hug me, unless I initiate the hug, because she is afraid I'll start to cry (I'm feeling stronger now, though). She won't have SF with me, because "No Dimmu, because you equate sex with love, and I don't love you..."

I have reread the 180, but if I do that, in her current mindset, she'll be like "Ah, Dimmu's finally getting over me..." and she'll keep having her EA with OM (kind of hard to have PA with a dirtbag in jail), or she'll move on to someone else...

Anyone have any advice or input? Thanks!

Dimmu

Hi Dimmu,

I guess I would respond to you by saying,there really isn't anything you can do if a spouse is unreceptive to forms of affection or any contact or refuses to let you in.You can try to do your best Plan A but the response is out of your control.It's disheartening for sure but all you can do is try.

My WH has also told me a few times how he didn't feel loved and that he didn't allow me to be close to him or as close to him as I should have been and he also did not know why.A long time ago,we did the EN questionannaire and reviewed it and I did really well in all but one catagory: affection.But the problem was,my WH never told me what I was doing wasn't enough or it was wrong or he wanted this or that.I went along thinking I was doing ok.He never sat me down to tell me we had a problem until it was way too late to do anything about it and now we are getting a D because he still won't allow me in or to make things better.It's bad enough being told that your WH/WW is committing adultery but then to never have a chance to make things better is just terrible.

Point is,just try your best even if it seems like it's not working.You never know if some day down the road it might actually make a difference when the WW thinks about you.Any type of EN given to a WS that is invovled in an A is usually not appreciated,not always but most of the time since they are in the "fog" and emotionally tied up with the OP.

What you need to do is have stable plan in place and stick to it as much as you can.You may need to come to grips with the idea that your WW has more than just Infidelity on her plate and has other serious self esteem and past issues to deal with which is affecting her behavior right now.In my opinion,it is sometimes better to allow these people to go and be off on their own while they figure themselves out if they will not seek counseling with or without the spouse.

Using my WH as an example again,he needs to see what it is like with other women and to be on his own I suppose.He appears to be in a very immature state right now,confused but determined to see what happens.Meanwhile,there are thousands of men and women out there hoping,praying and looking for exactly what he is about to throw away for good: a beautiful, loving and faithful wife,beautiful children,a great home and devoted pet,loving family members and so many wonderful memories not to mention a marriage that I held dear,all for a potential on a homewrecker that he still refuses to see as manipulative,needy and selfish and was involved in the destruction of all that mattered to him before as well.Go figure.

Stay true to your beliefs.

O

I mean no disrespect when I ask you the following question but why are you putting any credence to an unfaithful woman's words that are in direct conflict with her actions? This is like asking a drunk about who is going to be a better president for the country.

I sometimes wonder if people who do not want to implement Plan B do so because they subconciously WANT to lose all their love for their WS so they can go ahead and divorce him/her. The initial phases of recovery are very, very hard and if there is not enough love left the odds of recovering are slim at best. So ask yourself, am I one of those people?

<small>[ November 02, 2004, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Thank you Octobergirl, for your input.

I'm sorry to read that you and your WH are getting a D. Its so sad to see this happening to so many, and to know that there is such a high probability that the fate of my M is a D.

I keep finding myself trying to use logic and reason with my WW, the few times I see her, or speak to her on the phone. I know that usually, logic and reason won't register with the WS, but since the OM isn't around (though she visits him in jail, he calls her from there, and they work together and he got work release <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ), some of what I have said has got through to her, like her admitting that she wouldn't allow me to meet her EN.

I agree that she has some past and self-esteem issues. I wish that she could see that I want to be there for her, and help her the best I can to get through these issues. She is IC, but he is a loser, and I feel that he contributed to the situation. She says he is doing her good, yet she is having an A...and she was IC before we split up.

I do have a plan, but my Plan A timeframe is much shorter than recommended, because its almost to much to bear. My Plan B will be shorter as well...I am prepared to let her go for good this time, but I am currently holding on to this sliver of hope, and the fact that half of me still loves her.

I am trying to stay true to my beliefs, and I get stronger each day. I keep telling myself, I'll make it, with or without her.

Dimmu

TMCM,

I felt no disrespect from your post, and I do take all of your advice into consideration. I have a timeframe for Plan B, and it is soon. I'm just holding out, because I can't see my WW very much. I felt like I made some progress, the last time I saw her. Seeds of doubt about what she was doing, and about the OM were planted.

Some of the things she is starting to admit to, she wouldn't have a month ago. And she knows of my my MB research (but she doesn't have the URL yet...I don' want her to come here at this time), and she is asking me why she feels the way she does (she doesn't know herself), and how she could have an A. So she is either messing with my head, or she is genuinely confused.

You have said before, she may need to hit rock bottom. I think she is well on her way. And maybe when I do implement Plan B (1-2 months from now), it will have the desired effect, if she doesn't come around before then. Half of me loves her...but the other half is ready to move on. Maybe you are right about that half of me...maybe it wants a D, but the half that keeps posting here doesn't. It is a very paradoxial situation I find myself in...

Dimmu

You also have to remember that she contributed to the filing of a false police report to cover up a felony by implicating you which could have resulted in your arrest and prosecution. It's bad enough to have to endure two affairs but when you have a married woman that is more than willing to set up her innocent H [you] as the sacrificial lamb in order to protect her OM's criminal activities, you have to ask yourself why would he want to remain married to such a woman? I'm sorry if my words hurt you but you've got to take that into consideration when judging whether saving your marriage to a person like her is really worth it.

Dimmu...dont feel hurt about your WS's reaction...it is natural for ALL WS to react this way...

You must understand that WS are going through some kind of internal conflict themselves. They are not happy with their actions. They are confuse. They really really do not know what is right and wrong at this moment.

To avoid hurt yourself...dont hug her. In fact maybe you should ask her if it is okay to hug...ask her what are the boundaries...can you hug...can you touch her hand...can you make love...can you kiss her...etc etc...ASK her permission and see which area she is OKAY with. This way you can still show affection to her without causing her defensive system to go up and thereby causing you hurt when she rejects your advances.

Put this same boundaries around EVERYTHING that you do with her...phone calls...meetings with the kids...etc etc. Ask her what can and what hurts her and what does not. THIS is your boundaries. SET them tight. Then TELL her what are your boundaries...explain to her gently why and how this or that hurts. Negotiate the boundaries until neither you nor her can hurt each other.

This is plan A...do this plan for as long as you can...i think if you set your boundaries properly then you should be able to tolerate plan A for sometime.

Plan B does not work if you do not do plan A properly.

Plan A is not about being a doormat...NOT if you set your boundaries properly. Set them together then neither can get hurt. If something happens whereby one of you do get hurt then look at that situation and set up more boundaries.

I think your situation is not that bad. I believe if you implement your plans WS will come back. WS is not getting enough EN filled by OM so you have a big advantage here. Dont waste this opportunity.

Stay calm in all the situation...be confident...you must pretend even if your heart is screaming in pain. You have to be stronger. Show kindness to WS although you feel like kicking her [censored] out the door. Be compassionate...you are above all if you can do this right.

I hope the best for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TMCM,

I totally hear what you are saying. I 'm not downplaying her actions with the statement. I think about that everyday. I feel torn in half by her actions. But, she did tell her dad (who then told me) that she didn't mean to do it, but she panicked. She later called and told me the same thing. I don't feel she did it out of malice. She tries to down play it sometimes, but I remind her that she did a serious thing. If anything comes in the way of a future reconciliation, that would be it. She was ignorant of the laws regarding what they were doing, and figured that it would all just go away, paricularly because I am in state. She tells me this repeatedly when she downplays it.

With that said, I do believe that she has issues that require counceling. No matter what, she will be involved in the lives of my children. She wasn't always like the way she is now... She has mentioned God recently, and she didn't used to do that. That may be a good sign that she is starting to regret what she has done. I told her that she could tell the truth about everything. Sh

Thats why my plan A/B timeframes are so short. In a great sense, saving the M isn't worth it. Just this one last shot, to see what happens. Divorce as a possibilty has been talked about a couple of times. I'm just taking it day by day.

zizzycool,

Thank you for the advice. I do have many boundaries set up, especially due to what TMCM mentioned. Thats one of the main reasons why I can't Plan A for so long. I am only Plan A then B for as long as I can, because a part of me feels compelled to. I have the days that I miss her, and feel love, other days I do feel like moving on. Its more complicated than just getting her to forget the OM. There are many changes my WW has to make, and I don't know if she is ever going to be willing to make them.