This may seem liek a stupid question. But...it's one I've been pondering for a while.

Do you think it's appopriate for a married man or woman to have a close friendship with a person of the opposite sex who is NOT a friend of the spouse as well?

I've come to the conclusion that it is a recipe for disaster....and it seems to me that this should be very clearly spelled out as part of part of limit setting.

Any thoughts?

Yes, I have a thought. No way. This is a recipe for disaster. I had this same conversation w/my WW because this is how her A materialized. What it comes down to (and I have taken an unscientific poll) is this, and my WW agrees but still thinks I am wrong, go figure. Women can have a plutonic friendship with a man w/o it becoming physical. A man, on the other hand, will always wonder what it would be like to be with that women.

So me being the H, do I really want my W hanging out with guys who want to get with my W? NO! It makes me uncomfortable, my W should respect that and not have the friendship. If the friendship is more important than the M (spouse), something is really wrong.

P.S. Even if the spouse knows the other person, it can still be a disaster.

I agree. This has to be a boundary. I don't think that the average person in the world sees anything wrong with it and actually probably feels entitled at least when it comes to themselves. They may think they can handle it even if the cross the line and discuss personal or intimate problems.

For a number of years in our marriage my H tried to convince me that it was okay. Since before 'When Harry Met Sally'. I believe he finally gets it as well as the understanding of commitment, POJA, and especially Radical Honesty...

<small>[ November 03, 2004, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

Hmmm - It's probably ok if that person is your mum / dad, or you like playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded gun... ;-)

Many a conversation with my WS was about this prior to the A. She could not see the danger (or did not want to see it). It's diificult to imagine how two people could have this type of opposite sex relationship / intimacy sharing without getting into trouble... Usually a good litmus test is;
* If you would not feel comfortable telling your spouse what you talk about to opposite sex friend

OR

*if you keep the relationship secret then it's a big NO NO!!!

Many a predator has used this technique to trap a victim in a moment of weakness...

ABSOLUTLEY NOT!

My WW is falling in love with her male friend of 8 years. I have met him a couple of times. She turned to him and told him all of the problems we were having. Hell, he knows what I have done to piss her off better than I do.

MIF?

I am reading a book called Emotional Infidelity - How to Affair-Proof Your Marriage by M. Gary Neuman. It goes through 11 secrets to building a great marriage. The first secret is dealing with this subject (having friends of the opposite sex). I totally agree that this can be dangerous so why play with fire. I tried to read it to my wife and she was livid. She says that she has always had guy friends cause she can relate better to guys. She even went so far as to say that she NEEDS guy friends.

This makes me very uncomfortable. Especially since the affair started up with old flame within the context of just being friends. The book talks about the danger of using your emotional energy on someone other than your spouse....this is very much the case when it comes to members of the opposite sex.

My WW is currently friends with a guy that she has classes with and I do not know him. She has no interest in introducing us anytime in the near future. In fact, until recently, he didn't even know she was married. She talks to him either by online IM, email, or phone almost daily. She enjoys spending time with me and doesn't see that she is sending her energy away from me. She thinks that this limiting frienships with members of the opposite sex stuff is a bunch of crap. She defends it so vehemently, that it confirms to me that those relationships she has are more important to her marriage right now.

So I definately agree: friendships with members of the opposite sex can be dangerous and should be limited to persons 1) that both spouses know OR 2) that are family members OR 3) that are part of a couple that you both know

This is my opinion....

any thoughts on this? I would really like to hear more.

I have a few thoughts.

I can't see any reason for excluding your spouse from a friendship.

You can have friends of the opposite sex, but I would avoid getting together alone with them.

If you don't know how to enforce very strict boundaries, it can lead to romantic feelings.

And even if you do know how to enforce boundaries, such a friendship can still hurt your spouse's feelings. And she is entitled to having those feelings and having you protect her and do what you can to keep her from feeling hurt, even if you think her hurt feelings are unreasonable.

Do you want to be right?

Or do you want to be married?

GC

My wife said something this morning that didn't make a lot of sense to me, but...

Her belief is that if two peopl are equally attractive (my wife is very good looking) then it's not a problem for a man and a woman to be friends, since there is no sexual tension. She beleives that problems arise when a man becomes friends with a woman who is much better looking that he is (whic his what happened in the case of her A) because a man in that situation is much more inclined to pursue a romantic relationship.

I'm not sure that I agree with that at all. What I told her is that I don't think it's apprropraite for married people to form deep friendships with peopel of the opposite sex. But..if they DO form those friendships, it's ESSENTIAL that they be kept in the open and above board. (Ironically, my wife agreed that she would not like it all if I formed a deep friendship with a woman.)

Intimacy and secrecy, we know too well, are a receipe for disaster.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her belief is that if two people are equally attractive (my wife is very good looking) then it's not a problem for a man and a woman to be friends, since there is no sexual tension. She believes that problems arise when a man becomes friends with a woman who is much better looking that he is (which is what happened in the case of her A) because a man in that situation is much more inclined to pursue a romantic relationship.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's nonsense. "Equally attractive"? What's that mean?

So her A was the hideous OM's fault because the poor ugly fool pursued your irresistably beautiful W?

And a pretty person will never pursue an ugly one?

Get real.

With all due respect, it sounds like your W needs to get over herself.

GC

I'm not confident that my FWW can enforce those boundaries. She doesn't think there is anything wrong with being alone with a friend of the opposite sex. And because I don't trust her yet, I'm not confident that she'll enforce boundaries.

I have told her that I wouldn't mind her being friends with this guy if I got to meet him and got to know him and he got to know me. You know, out in the open, like you said. She is not willing to do that yet. That is what has me worried and uncomfortable.

Don't know what to tell you SC. You're right. She has no business having a private friendship with this handsome devil.

It's not about looks.

Partly, sometimes, it is. But not only, and not always.

Your W should read NOT "Just Friends". She isn't taking her M seriously enough. Her attitude, her approach to the relationship, is like flying blind.

GC

Graycloud,

Like I said...it didn't make any sense to me, either. I think ANY friendship between a man and a woman has the potential to turn into something more - especially when the talk turns intimate.

SC, I'd feel very skittish in your situation as well. The natural question is "why the secrecy?"

If this is simply a friendship..then why not bring everything into the open?

It doesn't sound like your wife is willing to cooperare. But...this seems like an issue on which you BOTH need to agree. How would she feel if you formed a similar relationship with a woman?

Andrew: Even if you got to know the guy, there is still the possibility of an A. I was friends w/ my W's OM. Never thought it would happen, but it did.

It is written to "forsake all others". I think that applies to opposite sex 'friendships' which can easily become EA's and then PA's.

Looks don't always matter when it is how the other one makes you feel about yourself...the stroke of the ego. Some may be more attractive but others may be quite the opposite. The smooth talker can get away with more than you may give them credit for.

If any of you have read my recent posts the emotional infidelity thing is real. I am now divorcing my husband of three months because he decided that he wanted to remain friends with his ex lover. They kept seeing each other having lunches, etc. he even admitted to kissing her in a "friendly" way once. I told him no way was I standing for that. I can't imagine it didn't go further than a friendly kiss and I don't want to be bothered with playing police on the two of them. Besides that she was also married. Neither of them had proper boundaries or common sense. So my answer to this question is a resounding NO!
It's a recipe for disaster for someone. It's playing with fire, and it's a very adolescent way of seeing life.

I instictively knew to drop all of my male friends when I married. Which meant losing touch with a lot of my closest friends. Most of my friends were male..and there was at least a small sexual element present with all of them. Hey, I found them attractive enough to befriend, who is to say that more couldn't develope?

I think that the pursuit of male admiration plays a large part in the desire to retain close male friendships post marriage. Those doors ought to be firmly shut purely out of respect for the spouse even if nothing ever were to occur..providing the opportunity is disrespectfull in the extreme.

.02 Noodle

Play with fire you're gonna get burned. Lie with the dogs long enough you're gonna get fleas.

My WW has always had male friends. I knew them, and this one turned into a full fledged A. If we can work things out, this is one point I am going to be a stickler on. I've heard just about enough of "He listened to me, understood my problems, blah,blah,blah...". I, being a guy, know that the only reason you have these "friendships" is to one day take it further. As a man, what you think about is "I wonder what she is like...". I do not have these friendships with women, not for that reason, but I really don't have much to talk about with women. I love my W and don't see the need to talk with OW about things that should only be talked about with my W. Why can't she get that? It is a slippery slope.

Of course, I am here, and probably wouldn't have these views if none of this happened. I now, however, see the real dangers that "friendships" can possess.