from my own experience with friendsand family I had to stop crying on their shoulders. They werwe getting emotionally wrung out on me, and angry at him but could do nothing. Talk to a counselor and keep your stuff private. I would also urge you to think about you not him, build your self esteem and dignity. When I realized my ex was destroying my dignity that gave me the strength to kick his a** to the curb in real time. You are worth good and secure love. And you will have it again. Let this one go. He is gone anyway. You mourn a ghost.
think of you and heal.

KMEJ - Care to talk a little with someone who's wife remained in regular contact with her OM for the first 2 years of our recovery?

Then we had the contact that "defined" my position, even though it had been stated many times previously.

Right now, though, I would like you take a few slow, deep, breaths....and relax(consciously...think of it like "cleansing breaths" during labor) all your muscles as you exhale. Tension is building up and adding to your anxiety...and what you need now more than anything is a "clear head."

I'll be around for a while if you want to talk (I'm working, getting updates on the election, and reading/posting here on MB).

God bless.

KMEJ,

I have a question for you. You specifically asked for Lemonman..Why? Lemonman has made it crystal clear where he stands..and because of that..even I could speculate with a good deal of accuracy what he would advise someone in your position.

So Lemonman came and said what he has always said..and..and..nothing. You still are not making decisions one way or the other. Do you want just to comisserate? 'Cause I can do that..but it isn't what you asked for.

Also!

Why is your H having intimate discussions with your BF?! Have we learned nothing?

I am suspicious in the extreme of this situation. She is giving you info that you are yet being betrayed by your H..but she is more concerned about damaging her relationship with him than helping you ? So, what's the excuse for that one [I'm sure they have one]?

KMEJ..I have to tell you..that I do not think you are recoverred at all. I think the affair is active [at least on his end]..I think your H is home because it is [and you are] convenient. I think Plan B is in order, pronto. If he won't leave, you do it. Time to stop alternating wringing your hands with fighting. Neither of these accomplish anything except keeping you in the malestrom while he skips along doing as he pleases with no real resistance.

If you want to leave this marriage..you have been entitled since the first moment he was unfaithfull..you do not [do you hear me! YOU DO NOT!!] need anything else to happen for you to have grounds.

If you want to attempt to salvage the marriage..then time to use some muscle in my opinion. The time for plan A has long passed..and if I remember correctly you have already done a Plan B..so what you have on your hands is a false recovery..the answer is..another plan B..or plan D..your choice..no one can make it for you.

So..what do you think?

--Noodle

Why is your H having intimate discussions with your BF?! Have we learned nothing?


Quick question KMEJ, is this the SAME best friend that your H is trying to get you to wife swap with????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H does NOT hit me that often nor does he go over the edge that much. He is not that bad. I am not scared of him. What happens happens. My H has never broken my arm or leg or ribs. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> it has been almost a year since he hit me, he has gotten better with that. Yes he still gets mad and "hugs me hard" or pushes me, but he has been able to stop hitting and dragging me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My H is not Physically abusive, please stop calling him that </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> SOmeone asked me way back when if he was ever physical, I said yes. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KMEJ, You are in SERIOUS denial over this...Your H IS an abuser. NO ONE, not a man nor a woman should EVER be pushed or hit or "hugged hard" by anyone. One day, I believe, that your H is going to go over the edge. You say he drags you...KMEJ, look at your posts. These are YOUR words. You need help. NOW! I believe that you do need to speak to your H about the continued contact, but I am afraid doing that will result in a physical fight. Your H is very controlling! You are afraid of him. That is not right! I am sorry to come off as aggressive in this post, but you need to get help now. Please, KMEJ! Dont wait.

Thank you all for your feedback up to now. I had to log off last night as my head hurt and I had no more room for help. I cleaned my house- and went to bed. I am feeling down today- but doing better.

To answer some of your questions. My H and my best friend have always talked, I have never had a problem with that. Yes this is the same friend that my H and her H want to have a "wife swap" with. My friend and I discussed this last night, and we are both in agreement.
My friend is very sweet, and my h will talk with her. I just thought until now she would tell me important things, but she waited weeks to tell me this, even though she knew I was struggleing with that- thinking he was talking with her, and she had said nothing.

I guess I ask for Lemonman, because he will tell me I deserve better, he will tell me to leave, while others tell me to stay. It leaves me torn and not pressured to make a rash decsion by the other members- I guess I want to have both sides, so that I know that no matter what decision I make, it is okay.

I do not know why I put up with what I do. I know some where in my H that he does love me. I think he wants to make it work, however he is so drawn to this other person.

I have not talked to my H yet about what I learned last night. I am thinking about writeing him a letter and putting it in his bag to go hunting this weekend, and maybe he will take time to REALLY read what I wrote, think about it and figure a few things out. DO you think that would be a good plan???

Yes I have plan b'd him. It went okay. Not sure if I want to put my kids through that in and out stuff again. The plan B was very hard on them. I guess I am thinking the next time one of us moves out it will be it. I just never want that day to happen. I want my Husband back, the sweet careing romantic man. Has anyone seen him?

I really love my Husband. I want this to work. However I do not see that happening as long as he still holds feelings and contact with that OP b/c then he is not really trying. I am tormented with what to do here. BIG heavy sigh...

<small>[ November 03, 2004, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: KMEJ ]</small>

KMEJ,

First, I'm sorry that things are going so badly with you. Only you know what the real situation in your home is. If you husband IS abusive - emotionally or physically - then you HAVE to get help. Period.

It's pretty clear that you need to set some limits. I'd suggest that you start with your BF. The talks she's having with your hubby are a recipe for an affair. It WILL happen, sooner or later.

You need to put your foot down and tell both of them clealry that it HAS to stop NOW. Will you lose a friend? Maybe. But...so what? If she's willing to talk that intimately with your hubby and NOT tell you about it...what kind of friend is she?

Thanks AndrewA-
Have any real idea on how to set these boundaries. Everyone tells me to set them, no one tells me how. I have read Surviving an Affair and HNHN, and I still am clueless when it comes to my situation. I love my H, he knows that, knows just what to do to keep me around, he does just enough.

I know that my H is emotionally draining and verbally stressful. I just do not want all of you to think of as this bad guy. He really has a great side to him, when he lets it out.

I love his laugh, his smile, his beautiful bright blue eyes, the smell of his hair, so much about him, I wish I could see them again...

I am still uncertain as to if I should leave and give him time to come to terms, or continue down this road of eggshells.

another ****sigh****

also I am not sure why my friend and H are talking. You are right it could lead to an affair. i hope not. I trust her, and would rather him talk to her then to the other girls he calls. I guess either way you look at it- I should be the one HE TALKS too.. I just wish he would. I can not read his mind.

With all due respect, KMEJ...DON'T TRUST HER!!!

This board is loaded with examples of people who got burned by "trusting" friends who were getting intimate with their spouses. My wife's A started because she talked to her best friend's hubby about OUR problems. She said she thought he was "safe." It turns out, he wasn't.

If you don't want to have to deal with yet ANOTHER affair...put a stop to this TODAY. Tell your friend that you appreciate it if she didn't discuss ANYTHING with your husband and tell your husband that if he has a problem, you are an available, willing, and eager listener.

Thanks Andrew, that is a great idea. I will do that. Now how do I get him to stop calling the other girls?

Sorry about your wife!!

I e-mailed Hubby and asked if he was happy and asked why he is pulling away from me again. No answer- typical, as he normally does not answer questions like that with anything other then "I don't know what you are talking about" or "I am here aren't I?"

It is so frustrateing.

KMEJ,

First, thanks for your kind words. My wife and I are making good progress.

I'm curious: what answer do you want your hubby to give in reply to your question? Wouldm "yes, I am happy." Be enough?

If not...maybe you want to phrase the question more specifically. It seems like the aim is to get at what you see as problems in your marriage. General questions probably aren't going to do that. Maybe the question you want to ask is something like: "Can you tell me three things about our marriage that make you happy?"

That's going to force him to be SPECIFIC, also...and he won't be able to give you general answers.

When he does talk LISTEN and let him know that you are listening.

H asked me about a month ago to write 10 things I like/do no like about our him and he would do the same for me. I put a lot of time thought and energy in to my list. I am still carrying it around as he has not wrote his yet.

I should try a more direct approch, however I think he knows if he is happy. However if he e-mailed that to me I would not know how to answer it either- wow you are right, what am I thinking? Maybe I should ask him if there is a need that I am not filling? Would that be better? OR maybe ask him why he feels he needs to talk to OP? THoughts?

I am happy that things are going well for you and Mrs. Andrew A. There is a bright side to this place!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I hope it continues that way.

I just sent H this:

I know you hate when I e-mail you instead of use the phone, but wanted to ask if there was something I could do to help you be happier and less depressed? I am here for you, I love you, I wish you would confide in me instead of others.

Was that better?

First, it's great that your husband asked you to do that list! Now it's time for you to press the issue. When the two of you are together, remind that he had asked you to write those things down. Tell him that you appreciate that he did that. Then tell him that you have your list and that you are eager to discuss it with him. Tell him you'll be back in 15 minutes to talk about what he has written on HIS list.

One thing to consider: you want to keep conversations like that from turning personal ina negative way. So...you may want to change the list from Like/Dislike to Like/Things I want you work on. That gives the other person more specific guidance about what they need to do to improve the marriage. And...it's not attacking them AS a person.

KMEJ,

First of all....I'm sorry that you have been going through this horrible ordeal.

Second...some of what I say goes completely against MB Concepts....but hey....you work with what ya got.

The first thing you need to do....is quit worrying about your H. He's off in la la land...and there is no way for you to bring him back right now.
The second thing you might consider.....getting away from your H completely for a while. Being around him even for a little while is just making your situation worse.
I know all about not wanting to be alone....not wanting to be without my H. Not knowing what the consequences of seperation are...and not really wanting to face them. But what's more important here.....at this very moment. Your marriage or your sanity.

Your children will surive a divorce if that is what it comes to....but they won't if Mom is broken down....they won't survive well at all in either sitation if you don't get yourself back in order.

Your grasping at straws....you want someone to tell you that anything that you may decide to do is okay.....that justifies your decisions.

I'm here to tell you that ANYTHING that you decide is okay.....to stay...it's okay.....leave...it's okay....kick your H out...it's okay......it's all okay.

NONE of us can tell you what is right for YOU....YOU have to decide that. And the first thing you need to decide on is whether you are going to let your H...and your emotions...ruin you.

One of the most important things you need to also do is look into your relationship with your BF.....she "talks" with your H...and she kept information from you....that doesn't sound like a true BF to me.

What your H is doing right now HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU...so quit letting it bring you down.

YOU are letting your H's behaviour run your life...and ruin it in the process.

Now....I'm a firm believer in saying what you have to say without [censored] footing around about it....but your H has been abusive in the past and unless you can prove that he's gotten professional help.....I'm not convinced that he has gotten better...he's just found a way around it......by verbally abusing you...wich in my opinion is worse than physical abuse.

In this case....I can't tell you to tell it like it is.....which you should do.....in fear that it would make your situation worse.

YOU need to make some decisions and quit waiting for your H to make them for you. That's essentially what you are doing.

If you don't want to put up with him seeing or contacting an OW....then don't. It's up to you.

Think of the example that you are setting for your children by allowing your H to treat you this way...and talk to you that way.....and to disrespect you in the way that he is.

My H was NEVER physically abusive.....but he was verbally abusive while involved in his A....and I put up with it for a time.....but when I realized what example I was setting for my daughters.....that it was okay to let someone treat you that way.....I broke that cycle and started standing up for myself.....started thinking about me.....and decided that my H will do what he will do...and there was nothing I could do about it.

I quit worrying about why he didn't love me anymore.....why I wasn't good enough....and why he was doing what he was doing. I had to for my sanity. I saw my H for who he was at the time. Not someone I wanted to be with.

So.....be who YOU want to be....not who your H EXPECTS or WANTS you to be. Quit torturing yourself with endless questions about what he's thinking....blah, blah, blah........you may never find that out.

JMHO....and what I thought was going to be 2 cents....but kinda turned into about 10.

Please take care. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am going to post my 10 things I like and dislike list on a different thread to try and get feed back. Please go look and tell me what you think, Thanks

Mrs. Priss-

Thanks for that. You are right about one thing, I do live for my Husbands approval. I wait for him to make decisions for me. I want him to be happy and try my best to make that happen. It does not happen very often.. I am all out of ideas and yet he is still not happy. I think maybe he is just unhappy with himself and he finds it easier to blame me and take me down with him. He loves me on some level. I do not feel he is in love with me though. Something I have accepted. I need to expect more. Question is HOW?

Andrew A or any one read this!

> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 1:07 PM
To: friend
Subject: Husband

Thank you for talking with Husband in the past. I am glad you gave me
the information that you did. I am worried that Husband will have another slip-up. I would hate for it to be with you. Then what would I do?

Sorry about Kerry!

Here is the reply I got:

That won't happen, although it has been suggested. How you heard
about it, I can only imagine. I am not interested in anything to do with that, although he did bring it up. We can discuss that at another time if you wish.

Thanks, this is a sad day in American history <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

She is at work, as am I, that is why we can not discuss it. HE is going after my friend now. Can this day get worse?

If she were truly your friend she would have disclosed this information to you without having you bring it up first.

I'm getting a BIG RED FLAG from her. I don't think she's being truthful at all with you.