Interesting you feel guilty staying in your own M. So do I. But it may be for different motives.

I still feel kind of guilty for getting in the way of true, if adulterated, love.

I often feel like I am the ogre in this fairytale. If I had just gotten out of the way, everyone would have lived happily ever after.

T

These relationships have no real foundation or cornerstone to their relationship from the beginning. The relationship, even though usually begun by accident, is destined to fail from the beginning. At some point, each player in the relationship makes a conscious choice to lie and cheat for their own personal satisfaction and gain which allows the affair to flurish.

I think this OM was hurt in the end and his statements made were a showing of his pain and suffering along with a showing of his real character. I don't feel sorry for him, I just understand he is hurt.

I have found my FWW maintains a low self esteem as a result of her affair and the humiliation that came from it. She said she feels like a 4 on a 10 scale on the inside. It shows there are no winners as a result of the affairs, just survivors.

I am pleased WU you finally saw the light and ended the relationship allowing your marriage a chance to survive.

TooSoon

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You mention God in all your post and how you are a Christian and then you say:

I really need him to develop a relationship with God and take his spiritual headship. I will keep praying for this.

I don't know if this is a DJ or not, but it seems to me your husband has been much closer to God than you have for a very LONG TIME! In fact you are the one that has been away from God with your actions. I really don't get your comment--- I really don't!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stanley, since you have stated no desire to talk about God and spiritual matters, don't you think it's a bit presumptuous to "lecturing" WU about this subject? I UNDERSTAND that YOU don't get her comment, but I fully understand it. I WAS her husband in many of the same ways.

Yes, I was more "godly," if you will, in that I didn't commit that particular sin, but believe me I was committing enough other sins for God to be "disgusted" with me too.

What WU is talking about is God's COMMAND to husbands to be the spiritual head of their household, to "stand in" for Christ and to submit their lives to God in humble obedience. In short, to walk with God and not in their "own" power and selfrighteousness. MY not having a close walk, slacking off on being the spiritual head of my house, was a MAJOR contributing factor to the "atmosphere" in our marriage that opened the possibility for an affair to develop. I KNOW what WU is talking about.

You and Myrta consider your "faith" to be too personal to talk about. That's fine, but then wouldn't it make sense to NOT impose your feelings on someone else without their solicitation? Yes, yes, I do the same when I broach the subject of faith, but I also terminate any further discussion if someone does NOT want to talk about faith, or the part that faith plays in their lives, or is not a Christian and doesn't want to talk about Christian priniciples.

Now, IF you do want to talk about the scriputural roles of husbands and wives, I'd be happy to discuss them with you. Just say the word and I'll return to your thread.

God bless.

ForverH:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What WU is talking about is God's COMMAND to husbands to be the spiritual head </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I see what you are saying, but the DJ was the main point I was trying to make. The theme of her statement could have been something else.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really need him to develop a better short game and lower his handicap so we can win the club championship </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now if she was a hacker (someone who can barely play golf and does not practice) that would be a DJ. If she were a good golfer that practices regularly then the statement would make sense.

Sure, the husband may not have been perfect, but at least he did not break the command of adultery!

Hey, Thos:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If OMs were so good and so perfect, they would not be messing around in someone else’s marriage. If they were a true friend they would never cross that line. They would not hide their light under a basket. They would help you and your husband solve problems, not use you for their own satisfaction – no matter how much you wanted to be used. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! This FWW will print that and read it should withdrawal symptoms rear their ugly head. The WD symptoms are getting fewer and further between with each passing day, and I can say with even greater certainty that my ex-OM was not the great guy I thought he was, and I am damned lucky that my wonderful H is ready to forgive and rebuild our M into something even better.

WU......

Good for you "FWW".

I think RADICAL HONESTY is a gift. Give it first to yourself. Then to your H.

I could not hope for a better gift from my WH. He is not WILLING to give it to me. Because he hasn't given it to himself yet.

"It's gonna be a bright, bright, bright, sunshiney day!" No fog, No smog!

K

Wow,
I've had a busy morning and am now just signing on! You all have been busy!

JL
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Has it crossed your mind that he is more of a leader in your family than you realize, and that perhaps his strength is coming from a power greater than him?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it has crossed my mind. H has been walking in love more than I have and I am supposed to be the one that has been a christian for many years. I give credit to God for keeping my H in the marriage. I don't understand why, but I'm thankful.
As far as the spiritual headship, I was refereing to not only being a good rolemodel, but actually pray with the boys, read scripture, take the inititive to put God first. Except for the last 10 months, H has been anti-god and even stated he believed in evolution. He fought me when I wanted to go to church, etc...long story.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
This is not so much about what YOU need from your H, but what YOU can give your H in the way of support, care, protection, and yes love. You have done little to none of these things for 6 years, and yet there he is trying.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know. And as of yesterday, I am FREE to do that. I felt a huge burdon removed yesterday. Thank God!

BetrayedinNewJersey,
Thank you for your kind thoughts and support!

Stanley568,
See post to JL, hopefully this explains better.

Toosoon,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I am pleased WU you finally saw the light and ended the relationship allowing your marriage a chance to survive.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you! I give all the glory to God, it was his strength that did it, not mine.

ForeverHer,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
What WU is talking about is God's COMMAND to husbands to be the spiritual head of their household, to "stand in" for Christ and to submit their lives to God in humble obedience. In short, to walk with God and not in their "own" power and selfrighteousness. MY not having a close walk, slacking off on being the spiritual head of my house, was a MAJOR contributing factor to the "atmosphere" in our marriage that opened the possibility for an affair to develop. I KNOW what WU is talking about.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YES!!! That is it!!

K-
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
"It's gonna be a bright, bright, bright, sunshiney day!" No fog, No smog!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen! You are still in my prayers!

WU,

I really should let this drop as I know it is explosive, but I really cannot because it has to do with your H and your marriage as well as my thoughts on the matter. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">H has been anti-god and even stated he believed in evolution. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know many people that believe deeply in God AND accept evolution as the best known working hypothesis as to the development of life on this planet. I am one of them.

I would say that your H's acceptance of evolution as a method for the changes in the life on this planet does not prove he is anti-god. In fact it says NOTHING about his relationship with God. What says something about his, mine, yours,...anyones relationship with God is their actions. It is something for you to think about.

I would be remiss if I did not point something out. First religion requires BELIEF because what you believe in is something beyond human ability to understand or test. Science is not about BELIEF but whether or not an theory/paradigm of thinking is useful in "predicting" outcome from a given input. Hence science is not a BELIEF and is not in conflict with religion. They are two parts of the human experience. Evolution is a theory of how life on this planet changes. IT has been successful as a predictive tool, and as a paradigm to understand what is observed.

If you are strong believer in God, then you might well think that perhaps this theory may have some basis in fact, but it can also be God's tool. I would NOT presume to state I understand God's way or motives.

So what am I on you for? Well, I am on you because you feel your H needs to change his views to suit yours, NOT your God's. It is a perspective that is very destructive. You are commiting what is called a Disrespectful Judgement, DJ. It is the most destructive form of Love busting, because you will take actions based on erroneus assumptions and the worst is that you know God's plan for your H and how your H will and does respond to that plan.

If God is love, then I would suggest to you that in this time your H has indeed shown you that there is a lot of God in your H.

I believe it is time for a perspective change with respect to your H. I don't mean you need to change your views of religion. I mean you need to quit making DJ's of your H. It is not your place to do so, and if you persist you may well lose your H and family.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

Waking up.
Would you mind sharing with us here at MB, the letter you sent to OM?

You seem so sure that the affair has ended because of this letter.
(And without your H knowing you continued seeing OM after d day in Feb up until last week, if I got that right.)

I don't think I could have 'stopped' had my H not found out. I'm too weak-willed I guess.

Tell us how YOU WILL STAY STRONG and please share a copy of your letter.

Rachel

Waking Up.
I am moving this up to the top.

I am wondering how you are doing?

I hope you will post a copy of the no contact letter and also let us know if it is working! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Let us know how you are feeling. I hope you really can stick to your NC decision.

Believe me, it won't be easy but very difficult.
When others say it is like withdrawing from an addictive drug, they are telling the absolute truth! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Rachel

Hello JL,
I've been away for a few days.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
If God is love, then I would suggest to you that in this time your H has indeed shown you that there is a lot of God in your H.

I believe it is time for a perspective change with respect to your H. I don't mean you need to change your views of religion. I mean you need to quit making DJ's of your H. It is not your place to do so, and if you persist you may well lose your H and family.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This I understand....

The other stuff you said about evolution is indeed explosive, so I will not comment on it.
Thank you for you continued support and comments.

WU

Good Morning MYOS,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Would you mind sharing with us here at MB, the letter you sent to OM?

You seem so sure that the affair has ended because of this letter.
(And without your H knowing you continued seeing OM after d day in Feb up until last week, if I got that right.)

I don't think I could have 'stopped' had my H not found out. I'm too weak-willed I guess.

Tell us how YOU WILL STAY STRONG and please share a copy of your letter.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I didn't keep a copy of the NC letter, but will tell you what was in it.
First, I should say I wrote the NC letter and mailed it 11/2. On 11/3, OM called me and wanted to know if we were finally going to be together. I was hoping to dodge the phone calls until he got the letter as I was also weak. I knew what I wanted to do, but couldn't get the words out. I believe the phone call was also Gods doing because I would have been fretting for 3 days wondering if OM got letter and what his reaction would be. Well, OM called, was very pushy and forceful, finally he asked, "are we gonna be together?" The words that came out of my mouth were, " I can't find in the bible where it is right for us to be together". I also believe this was God because in the past, I've broke it off saying it isn't right, my kids don't deserve this, etc, but OM wouldn't listen. By me saying it isn't supported by God's word, it acted as my shield, I didn't have to fight with OM, the truth was stated and he could fight with God about it. He made threats to send love letters to H, etc. I also left this in Gods hands and trust that when OM cooled off, he would again be confronted with God's truth and know not to cause any trouble. Besides, no weapon formed against me shall prosper! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
As for the letter, it wasn't the typical letter suggested here at MB's. However, it did contain some of the wording. I told OM adultery, even if just in the heart(there was no longer any PA) was wrong, it was sin and the payment for sin was death or seperation from God and I didn't want to be seperated from God any longer. No more lies, deception, etc. I was done. I also said that two wrongs don't make a right. Adultery was wrong and divorcing H to be with OM was also wrong, God hates divorce.
I apologized that we both wasted years of our life and it was time to move on.
I said I would not try to contact him and asked that he respect my desire to end the relationship and not contact me.
I also called a pastor that OM respects, told him what was happening and stated in the letter to OM that I called pastor and OM should call pastor with any questions. Pastor also assured me he would follow up with OM after OM received the letter.
That's it in a nutshell. I used the word of God against the OM. Now if he has a problem with my decisions, he can take it up with God.

So, how will I stay strong? I can't begin to tell you the changes God has made in my heart since the morning of 11/3! I finally know that after 6 years I am free! I am right in Gods eyes and I am finally walking in righteousness and obedience and God will honor that. I know there are consequences to sin and God will also help me through those. My only focus now is God, then everything else will fall into place. Seek His kingdom first....
OM is becoming a faint memory. Do I have moments where I think of him? Yes, and when they hit, I begin praising God and thanking him for what he has done.

I hope this helps!

WU

WU,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The other stuff you said about evolution is indeed explosive, so I will not comment on it.
Thank you for you continued support and comments.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree just please don't be harsh in your judgement of your H. That is to be left to a higher power than you or I. I hope that you find it in your heart to be generous in your forgiveness to H.

God Bless

JL