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#1217280 11/03/04 02:14 PM
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How much space should I be giving WW?
How much freedom and independance should she expect from me without me "checking up" on her?

When should "we" start working on the pricipals I've been made aware of here, and in Dr. Harley's books?

D-Day was six weeks ago. While WW still works with OM, A is over, and I don't think it will continue.

That is a major trust issue for me. Like going out on a branch with a saw!

WW feels I am trying too hard. Not trusting enough. Trying to do too much at once. While I am (I think) meeting many of her EN's, she's not trying, nor is she meeting ANY of mine.

I would like to feel like things are moving forward.
I do have many things that tell me WW is trying, we are talking, we are close physically and intimatly, we are trying to have fun together.

There is a huge shadow looming and until that is gone, I guess I worry. I just don't know what the time line is for these things. Things WW is going through (ending of A), dealing with guilt from me, and working on marriage.
I also recognize this is still "new". My hurt is still on my sleeve. My pain, while I am trying to manage it better, is obvious. I don't know what to expect from WW at this stage.

While I would like us to see a MC, $-wise that may not be an option. WW thinks either way that will be the end-all soultion. I tend to think an hour a week or two with any person is never enough to make a marriage work. It is a 24/7 job.
I just don't know how to pitch that without being yelled at.

Thank you for any direction or comments...

#1217281 11/03/04 02:41 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Naples:
<strong> .....That is a major trust issue for me. Like going out on a branch with a saw!

WW feels I am trying too hard. Not trusting enough. Trying to do too much at once. While I am (I think) meeting many of her EN's, she's not trying, nor is she meeting ANY of mine.

....Thank you for any direction or comments... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Naples,

U a tree guy? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well you are rushing it a bit. In the fog things move slowly. You have to remember your W is still trying to find her way.

Now you can work on you and make a good plan A. You must exercise patience.... Lots of it.

Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart along with lots of patience.

Do more reading, IC/MC as needed. If you can make a few calls to Jennifer or Steve at MB it w/b great.

Give her the space she is asking for. Rebuilding trust takes time. You have more on your side right now. Give her the time to see that.

take care,
L.

#1217282 11/04/04 09:06 AM
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Orchid,
Nope not a tree guy, unless having a tree falling on you makes you a tree guy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes there has been a lot of fog. Don't know how to deal with that. I'm guilty of it too.

I keep reading and hearing I need to take care of me first.
Last week I started AD's. I think, it's helped a bit already. I'm not "losing it" like I was before. And TRUST ME I was losing it big time! I still feel and think the same things (the hurt, the pain, the loss, and the fear), I'm just not out of my head.

WW is starting to warm up to me since I've not been so crazy. While I still have my moments, she sees I'm trying.

This is where I'm confused. It seems so backwards. At least to me. I would think if I was in the same situation I would be falling over myself backwards to show my wife that she could trust me, that I was commited to her, that I had made a mistake.
But, in reality, it's me showing the commitment, apologizing, trying in small ways and large to make our relationship better (mostly through meeting her EN's).
That maybe, even at this early stage, why I'm pulling my hair out.

A friend told me yesterday, I have to forgive myself first.
Yes I'm hard on myself for this whole situation. I feel I drove her to this. Mostly through neglect, drifting apart because of small children. Letting the romance die. Substituting quickie sex for a quiet moment alone when the kids were gone or otherwise occupied. Calling that a relationship....making the false assumption that "we were strong enough to weather this stage of our lives..."
I do look at this as an opportunity. I see so many people who drift apart, let the love go out of their marriages, replace it with solo activities. Not affairs. But, you know, isn't that the same? If you aren't going to have love, real love, real romance, those wonderful things....what's the point.
My mother said recently, everyone deserves to be loved. I take that to define everything. All my needs for affection, romance, communication, lust, respect,......everything!
I worry that my wife will not have those feelings for me.
I loved the things she used to do for me. She was so caring. These days, She seems bitter. And while we've through the bowels of hell, and she may have good reason to be bitter. I so much want that fun person back.
Conversation is still forced.
In the book by Nick Sparks: The Wedding he talks about that, how difficult conversation can be...
I hate that. My wife and I would talk for hours. Now, a two minute conversation is all that is needed. Get our point across and shut up.
Some of it is due to knowing each other so well. But, part of it is, well, I don't want to force things, neither does she in that respect. She doesn't want to make conversation, for conversation's sake. Nor do I. However, I find myself making mental notes of things we can talk about later. Topics of conversation that we would both have input on.
Aside from our children, we do have other things to talk about. She and I used to talk about her job, however, since the A, I don't like to hear about it, since it was with a co-worker.
She like to talk about work, sort of helped her to wind down after a long day. That is really hard for me now. Not sure sometimes I can deal with it. And sometimes it is a trigger.
I hate the triggers......Sometimes it is something simple, passing a person in the street, others, a comment.

I would like to give her the space she needs to get out of the fog. To get over OM. But, that is really hard. She does see OM at work.

What a lot of this amounts to for me is quiet time. I don't like a lot of that these days.

I don't know how to work on myself during those times.
I don't know how to make plan A work for ME. There was a good explaination somewhere round here, I can't seem to find it again.
I do want it to work for me. Not so much to my benifit regarding WW, more, to put me in the frame of mind that I need to be with WW such that when the time comes, we can work on our marriage again. SO I know when that time has come. So I can recognize the signs that the fog has lifted. That WW is really ready. Not me forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do.

I don't really know what to do, or how to act. I do keep doing what I've always done at home, cook, clean, care for children. And I've added to that trying to meet WW's EN's. But it's a matter of not forcing the issue I guess.

#1217283 11/05/04 01:26 AM
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Your situation sounds EXACTLY like mine...right down to the time line.
If it's any help (we are both seeing seerate counselors) my IC told me that for 28 yrs of a very happy relationship I would have gladly died for her. Now with all of the sh*t happening because of her A, I really get to prove it. Because now I (you and me and all the others out there) have got to be strong for our partner. They knew about it long before we did, so the devastation isn't as powerful as it is for us but they have lost something of extreme importance to them (the A partner) and it's kind of our fault that the A partner is gone.
Anyname said we had taken their candy away from them.
In my sit. at least, I'm seeing some small signs of improvement on her part. When she gets her head together, I'll have a chance to start working on mine to figure out a way to heal the hurt.
I was suicidal and damned near made it happen. I only stopped myself because I couldn't leave the dogs and parrots without homes. When the emotions finally stopped churning around I realized that it would have been an easy way out and in some respects I wish I had finished the job.
Anyways, we seem to be making progress. I wonder if I'll ever stop suspecting her of doing it again if she has a bad day?

#1217284 11/04/04 02:25 PM
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I'm also seeing small sign of improvement from my wife. The sound in her voice is coming back. She seems happy to see me, hear from me.

But, she does still need her space. I know it's from the "candy". It is hard to respect that right now. I would feel much better if she would share her pain and loss with me. I know that isn't really possible.
The hard thing, the person I need to share my hurt and sadness with, can't be there for me. I had wanted to cry on her shoulder. Not run off and be alone. She would have none of that.

Brian, I have gone thru the same stuff suicide-wise. The last of it ended last week. I for a change am feeling human. still hurt and all that, but human again. That is a welcome change after 6 weeks of total chaos in my head. 6 weeks of 180 degree mood swings. I didn't do it mostly because I have small kids. Couldn't leave them without a father. Was I close...yes. Did I have plans...I did. That is tough thing for me to admitt, I've never felt so weak in my life.
And yet, now, only a short time later, I feel like I'm beginning to turn around.
I've found some supports in my life I didn't know I had. I'm using them...or over-using them! (silent thanks).

I just don't know when to expect my wife to come out and say "hey let's fix this marriage!" Either subtly or openly. I expect she never will. I worry, that the work we must do may go undone. I don't want to be back in the same place again. No one deserves that. Not anyone!

#1217285 11/04/04 02:35 PM
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Naples, can you please explain to me what you mean by giving her "space?" I don't understand what that means. Does that mean she is going out somewhere?

#1217286 11/04/04 02:47 PM
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In some cases she does "go away."
Out to the bookstore, coffee shop, gym, or shopping.
Or she'll say she needs to get away for a few days. Last time she ran off with OM.

Thing is, I don't have time for similar "space"
Three small children kind of limits your ability to have space.
She'll have a bad day(with kids for instance)....then expect to be able to make up for it with time out with friends.
Again, I am never afforded the same time away.
I don't ask for it. I don't expect it.
Part of being a parent.
Her space, freedom, independance all those things have for a long time hurt me.
Now after her A, I am reluctant to grant such space. Even when I know she has to deal with some issues alone: relationship with OM.

Her need for space, is a huge LB for me. One she isn't going to want to give up easily.
My only hope down the road, we can arrive at a place where her time away can include me.
If not,.... well I'm not ready to conceed that w/out trying.

#1217287 11/04/04 03:44 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Naples:
<strong> In some cases she does "go away."
Out to the bookstore, coffee shop, gym, or shopping.
Or she'll say she needs to get away for a few days. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ok, I get the picture now. She is using her "space" to carry on her affair with the OM. People who are working on their marriage don't need "space" apart, they need to be together. But folks that are carrying on affair need "space," lots of it. Yes, I would have an issue with this also, Naples.

You should also know that the affair will likely never end as long they continue to see each other. She will never recover as long as she continues to see the OM. You will never recover as long as she continues to see the OM. This is why Harley is ADAMANT that one even MOVE if they have to, in order to end contact.

You see, an affair is like an addiction and one cannot withdraw unless they STOP. Every time your W sees the OM, she goes back to Day 1 of recovery. It is like making an alcholic sit in front of beer every day and telling him he can't have a drink. He can NEVER get that beer off his mind because he is looking at it all the time and eventually, in a weak moment, he picks it up. So, you see, recovery is impossible as long as they see each other.

Naples, you have a lot of work to do here, I hate to tell you, my friend. You have an affair to end. And until you make some hard choices and start taking action, your marriage is in big trouble.

HAve you exposed the affair? Are you snooping on her to see exactly what is going on here? Who is the OM?

<small>[ November 04, 2004, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

#1217288 11/04/04 03:56 PM
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Naples,

Ditto to everything Melody wrote. Please do not delude yourself about the truth.

Your children depend on at least one reality based parent.


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