Are you ok? the posts I've read from you the last couple of days have seemed so sad...

thinking about you.

bump

Ah lovely SadFWW, I'm 'OK' darl'. "Ok" was about the best I could imagine a few weeks ago.

FWW is very sad right now - feeling very unworthy of me, but when I'm feeling pretty unworthy myself its not a good combination.

Normally I can be strong for her but I'm just, well, a bit SAD right now.

Sadness and disappointment rather than anger and hard stuff.

Thats an improvement right ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God told me VERY CLEARLY last night when I was whinging to Him that right now my FWW has never needed my selfless love more than she does now.

I should be ashamed of myself.
I love her SO much but she hurt me, SadFWW, maybe more than I can ever bear or recover from. That wil make me sad if i can't but some days- like today - I think I won't recover.

And y'know...I really wasn't a bad or abusive husband to her. Just not as exciting as her head sport coach on a trip to Italy that I bought her as an adventure.... * sigh *.

I'll be fine darl. More importantly how are YOU ??

I pray your hubby realises the diamond he has in you. I really do.

I'm fresh out of Bob Pure shirts, I think we should make up soem SadFWW ones BUT with your new happy MB name on it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

{{{{sadFWW}}}}
All blessings always, and thanks for asking.

Bob,

At one time you said the W was going to a tournament and would hear how the OM was boasting about his conquest.

Did that ever come about?? Does she still go to the tournaments?

HAPPY...sad.....HAPPY....sad..that's why they call it a rollercoaster. BE HAPPY, DON'T WORRY!!

Come on everyone....SING ALONG NOW!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I just learned how to do these..can you tell??

k

:::I really wasn't a bad or abusive husband to her. Just not as exciting as her head sport coach on a trip to Italy that I bought her as an adventure.... * sigh *.

This is always one of the hardest things to come to terms with Bob. Btw Tummytuck and I met up yesterday. I mentioned about it and discussing you on the "whats the best thing that happened to you today" thread. TT is an English lady who was a lovely wife to her H. It's heart breaking that there is always an OP waiting in the wings to pounce on an unsuspecting S and reek havoc in their lives. As I see it, it's seldom about the state of the M. It's not about the BS being a bit ordinary. It's just the love game that we were meant to play just the once and live happily ever after - but the instincts are so strong that they can end up effecting people who've already found a good partner. And it's got very little to do with the current partner. I also think that there is something a little wrong with people who let this in to their lives - but I do understand that the instinct is very strong. To be honest I think it's just bad luck. Our Ss were in the wrong place at the wrong time. My H was never going to be the type to be unfaithful. But thirty years in, and exceptional circumstances and an apparently too good to be true 26 yo pretty young woman came on to him and he had desire and opportunity and he couldn't see that it was a trap (she after money). So much damage and two yrs later we have trudged thru this recovery process and are probably half way thru it now. I hope the worst is beyind me, but there is no guarantees. Think of yourself on a long walk and carrying a heavy pack. It does come to an end but you can't hurry it. You just gotta do it. And at your stage you probably feel a bit resentful that you have to do it. Who wouldn't?

Accept sad and disappointed. It's the route the walk goes.

all the best
AN

Krusht...you are having fun with those smiley faces~giggle~

Bob, Sadww is a mighty fine lady.
Your wife is a mighty fine lady.
They each had affairs.
They each have stopped.
They each are repentent.
They each are forgiven. (I think)

You said this to Sad:
"I pray your hubby realises the diamond he has in you."

Our prayer for you, dear Bob, is you realize the diamond you have in YOUR wife!
Sincerely, Rachel

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by krusht:
<strong> Bob,

At one time you said the W was going to a tournament and would hear how the OM was boasting about his conquest.

Did that ever come about?? Does she still go to the tournaments?

HAPPY...sad.....HAPPY....sad..that's why they call it a rollercoaster. BE HAPPY, DON'T WORRY!!

Come on everyone....SING ALONG NOW!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I just learned how to do these..can you tell??

k </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">K, My FWW hasn't attended a tournament since the one I helped out with in September, but autumn & winter aren't a big tournament season in Karate for some reason. I am hopingthat before the next one comes around FWW will be recovered enough to not attend out of respect for my feelings and to maintain NC.

I haven't told her about OMs boasting - why would she believe me? She probably still thinks he's a lovely man who never told her a lie.

She will find out soon enough I guess. She will be very hurt if her club colleagues get to find out, but again thats OMs doing not mine.


What a NICE man he is. " i'd like him if I got to know hom" she told me in the fog.... LOL !

* MYOS my FWW isn't making much of an effort to recover right now. She's just living like nothing's wrong. I know its early in recovery for her but I have no doubt sthat ONE DAY when she DOES actively contribute to our recovery and my healing I'll see her for the diamond she is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Its just too hurtful right now.

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 12:39 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Bob,

First, you know I'm like your #2 fan right? heehee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Probably right behind Sadfww! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> But gee, why do you guys keep worrying about the Bob Pure Fanclub t-shirts running out when we have the wonderful Bob Pure pants and Bob Pure ballcaps and Bob Pure lunchboxes???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Bob, Bob, Bob. As I mentioned I am your #2 fan. I hope there's some little part of you that understands that I would NEVER advocate something that is going to harm you or put you in harm's way. But you keep tilting down your sword, you old dragonslayer--or worse yet, laying it down or GIVING it to the other side!!

I don't think I'm entirely out of line here, but it has been two months, Bob, since the OM's son was killed. It's been about those same two months since your FWW came home. Now I realize that two months, as compared to seasons, years and decades, is not too long...and yet I suspect it may be long enough that the poor "damsel in distress" needs to start working on rebuilding the dragonslayer she demolished.

Let me be blunt and stop all this Hero Talk. Bob, you are a man--a strong, brave, fearless man if ever I've seen one--and yet in the face of a few tears from this damsel, you are completely turning over your reasonable right to have a partner who cares about YOU. I may get a few 2x4's from the Fanclub for calling you to the mat on this, but I strongly suggest that it's about time for your damsel to get down to the business of recovering or having her world shook up a bit. Ultimatums??? No.

Frankly, here's how I see it now. You bring up a topic that is either hurting your or eating you alive, and she sheds a few tears and claims that she "just can't face it right now"--and she gets to avoid doing the hard work of finding out what YOUR needs are, making amends for destroying her family, or realizing that there are consequences. It is avoidance and denial, pure and simple. Meanwhile, since she is avoiding her consequences and responsibilities, it is EATING YOU ALIVE inside emotionally.

I'm going to be bold and press on. I think it's time to gather your courage, grow big brassy ones, and tell your FWW that it can't be put off any longer...you two need to reach a joint agreement when recovery is going to start. Bear in mind, that it would be phrased as a respectful request, but also indicating that it is URGENT and it is NEEDFUL to you. You can not "make" her want to start facing it, nor can you "make" her care that she is continuing to harm you--but you CAN use the W-T-F-S format:

When you _____
I Think _____
I Feel _____
So I'm going to ask _____

Here's an example of how it might be worded:

When you continue to avoid examining the A and not begin recovery of our M as a mutual partnership
I Think that my pain means very little to you that you would allow me to continue to suffer
I Feel resentful, angry, overwhelmed, and sad
So I'm going to ask that you participate with me in establishing plan for when we will be discussing the A and beginning to recover our M. I would like to request scheduled goals or deadlines for which we can strive but which can be revised if we jointly agree.

Now, fearless leader, do you see how this is a respectful but STRONGLY WORDED request. She has the freedom to say, "No, I will not establish a schedule or plan" but then you know where she stands--she's never GOING TO address this. She also has the freedom to say, "I will do something to assure you but this schedule idea doesn't work for me. How about if we.....???" Finally she also has the freedom to say, "I will come up with a plan with you, and then you can have some relief that this will some day be addressed and that some day the suffering will end."

The real trick here, Sir Knight, is whether you are brave enough to be the hero again. This can not be avoided...some sufficient time has gone by...time to start slaying this monster. I pray that you ARE brave enough to not back down from this one, Bob, because right now you two are pretending (yes, I'll say it again PRETENDING) that everything is alright. It is FAR from alright.

((((((((((Bob)))))))))))


CJ

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: FaithfulNewCJ ]</small>

seej, I am not being cowardly. Really. I am ABLE to act. I do not think everything is OK because it is not.

Squiddy ( my FWS - I'm tired of that label!) is coming around slowly but definitely. I journal her responses ( and my feelings) and each week she is opening up more. Supporting recovery more.

I dunno if I posted this up but last week I got a letter to " mr and mrs pure" from the head office of the hotelchain that they "met" in.

Lovely OM had signed in as " Mr and Mrs Pure" with our address to ensure no sh1t followed HIM home.

Now obviously I was upset and I asked Squid " how COULD you ?".

She was VERY upset. She cried for a while then later when she came downstairs she said " It doesn;t make it better but I didn't book the hotel. I'm so very sorry".

We held and cried for a while and had the best relationship discussions we have yet had. We had another R discussion on Sunday night. Again not everything - I raise a single point or two so she doesn't feel interrogated.

She asked me on Sunday " what would you like to see in your perfect wife?"

I replied that despite her cynicism theres an emotional needs questionnaire that woud help both of us answer that about each other".
We'll do it this weekend.

Now while this isn't fast enough for me - I want to get ALL the pain and healing done NOW and have Squid meet mey EVERY EN IMMEDIATELY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> BUT ! considering where she was even a month ago this is fantastic progress.

You previous 'be a man' 2x4 was very effective on me seej, and it was not a once for all response I made. Squiddy knows why immediate desires :
Disposal of OM love letters and DELIBERATE attention to my ENs. In the same way that POJA, radical honesty and Plan A ENs were only effective when CONSISTENTLY applied, Squid knows that I am consistently, but patiently nudging her forward in our recovery. No big gestures, no shouting matches. Consistent gentle pressure. And I am honestly seeing results week to week if not day to day.

Remember I wondered why she didn't tell me ILY ?

I asked her, saying that I could handle the answer even if it was " I still love the OM". her reply was:
"I don;t think you believe me when I say anything nice. Why should you ? I've lied so much. I 'm so sorry. I DO love you. I think I never stopped, but I got distracted".

That led to a discussion on restoring trust, not a HUGE SHOUTY one , but one where we were cuddling on the sofa watching TV and where I asked her how SHE thinks she could restore my trust in her.

She doesn't have many answers to these questions right now but she IS at least processing them now.

I am impatient, but understand seej that I am healing and maturing over the same period as squiddy is stabilizing.

Had I pursued those questions a month or so ago I would have LBed my [censored] off.

If Squiddy was making NO progress, I'd pick up my sword an dswing for sure but she IS making progress at HER pace. Its just not fast enough for my taker.

I found her the other night trying with SOAP to refit her wedding ring that she hasn't worn since a sports injury eight months ago. She asked " can we get this enlarged ?"

I just want those gestures to manifest in a more dynamic approach - FEELING recovery is one thing but doing stuff uncomfortable to HERSELF to support me or our M. Thats her next step IMO.

When look at some other FWS timescales, my FWW seems to be about a year ahead of most.

And I think she would be in a terrible place without my love and gentleness right now.

She has said to me " I don't deserve you. I don't deserve to be happy". " Your kindness makes me feel bad".
I asked , smiling" do you want me to be mean and punish you?"
She replied " yes, sort of... I dunno".

I think she is realising daily what she's done. God is working hois 'yeast' through her 'dough'.

So DEAR seej, I truly appreciate your 2x4, and I will review myself later to see if I am deliding myself but I don ot think I am right now.

Keep reminding me and ALL BS that patience is NOT the same as issue avoidance although they look the same from ten feet away.

You ROCK seej, you really do

{{{{{FNCJ}}}}}

So it's Bob and Squiddy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Bob, just wondered. If Squiddy did want to go on the karate tours again couldn't you accompany her. If karate is a really big deal to her, wouldn't it be a fab gesture to 'allow' it. Is she still training since all this crap blew up?

I know this is not an imminent problem but you could attend and support her and, by being there, ensure that the OM does not get a look in.

My WH also asked me why I was being so nice initially. I reckoned he'd forgotten that it's because that's what I am - nice!! He doesn't ask any more cos he's jumped ship again (methinks for the last time). He's in an almighty peasouper of a fog (if such a thing exists). Continue to wear your heart on your sleeve Mr Pure. TT

Hey TT !

I've always supported Squid's sport, even the refereeing stuff that enabled the A.

She is still training, its the competitions that will be so hard for me.

But also....karate is a really really immorral world and In a dream world she would give it up and do something more wholsome instead.
I've always SUSPECED that but KNOW that now.Everyone has affaiors, everyone deals in violence and petty crime.

I don;t want my kids involved in that and I don;t see how Squid can ever get right with God while she's embroiled in that mess.

Attending Karate to a non-karatelka like me is about the single most boring thing on the earth !I used to attend in the past and still do if teh kids are taking gradings or something but its SOOOOO boing and theres so much of it ( twice per week!).
A lot to do. Thanks for the thought TT ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong>
Squiddy ( my FWS - I'm tired of that label!) is coming around slowly but definitely. I journal her responses ( and my feelings) and each week she is opening up more. Supporting recovery more.

She asked me on Sunday " what would you like to see in your perfect wife?"

I replied that despite her cynicism theres an emotional needs questionnaire that woud help both of us answer that about each other".
We'll do it this weekend.

Now while this isn't fast enough for me - I want to get ALL the pain and healing done NOW and have Squid meet mey EVERY EN IMMEDIATELY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> BUT ! considering where she was even a month ago this is fantastic progress.

Remember I wondered why she didn't tell me ILY ?

her reply was:
"I don;t think you believe me when I say anything nice. Why should you ? I've lied so much. I 'm so sorry. I DO love you. I think I never stopped, but I got distracted".

I am impatient, but understand seej that I am healing and maturing over the same period as squiddy is stabilizing.

If Squiddy was making NO progress, I'd pick up my sword an dswing for sure but she IS making progress at HER pace. Its just not fast enough for my taker.

I found her the other night trying with SOAP to refit her wedding ring that she hasn't worn since a sports injury eight months ago. She asked " can we get this enlarged ?"


When look at some other FWS timescales, my FWW seems to be about a year ahead of most.

And I think she would be in a terrible place without my love and gentleness right now.

She has said to me " I don't deserve you. I don't deserve to be happy". " Your kindness makes me feel bad".
I asked , smiling" do you want me to be mean and punish you?"
She replied " yes, sort of... I dunno".

I think she is realising daily what she's done. God is working hois 'yeast' through her 'dough'.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bob..it sounds like squiddy is well on the way to recovery- showing signs of remorse, sorrow- and also showing her love for you. Yes- this is amazing considering the timeframe as you said!

I worry more about YOu however- and the feelings that you have that you "won't" recover.

I'm probably the last person in the world that should offer any advice in this regard - but here it is anyway along with the other great advice you've gotten.

Take it one day at a time, Bob. Never is an awfully long time. I bet you would "never" have thought 3 months ago that you would feel even as good as you do now "ever again." Time helps heal, Bob, especially when I truly think your W will begin to engage more in actively healing your marriage in the coming months. My money is on you and squiddy- and I'm willing to "Bet" that within the next year- or even two- that you WILL have recovered. You won't have forgotten- but you will have found your way back to a good place in your life and in your relationship - as will your wife.

My thoughts and prayers are with you & Squiddy, Bob.

Dear SistaInLaw <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have high hopes of our recovery too, but an inhibitor is my aspirations for our renewed M partnership.

It has been WAY too one sided for years. If Squid, much as I adore her, can't up her contribution NOT JUST from during and after the A BUT from before the A ,I won't be truly happy.

I've done alot of changing, Squid hasn't started yet. I dunno if she CAN enjoy her life with the coinstraints of actively caring for me as I need.

we'll see.

I'm trying to look at the facts not "what ifs" .

In a small way I look back at this morning and I'm actually pretty proud that my instinct was to lose the 'FWS' moniker from Squid. I don;t want all YOU lot know about her is that she had an affair. Thats the ONE really bad thing she did and it should not define her. i don't call her "wonderful nurse", " best friend to all " " second daughter to my mom" do I?

Does that make any sense ?

These things take me by surprise at how much I love her AND how much more acepting I am becoming without trying.

So I DO have high hopes of recovery but I am by no means certain of it.

Bob,

Your post hits at something I've been trying to come to terms with lately: the incredible sense of loss that has resulted from this A.

I feel it deeply, even as our marriage is making progress. There is the loss of trust. The loss of innocence. The loss of confidence. There is so much loss...and I imagine there always will be.

Like a lot of people here, I talk about getting past it and moving on. And that's certainly the goal. But...I'll always feel a bit haunted.

What am I doing to cope with the loss? It's difficult, but I have tried to use it as springboard to a new beginning. I'm hopeful that I will get there. I'll rebuild, but likely never fully "recover."

It sounds to me like you are struggling with loss as well.

An update to stop SadFWW worrying about me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ! {{{{SADFW}}}}

We're doing great! - its a high spot on the rollercoaster right now - had a great weekend with Squid and the kids. She's very loving, almost completely my Squid again instead of the alien abduction fog creature. Even starting opening up a little bit now and again.

I honestly think now that Squid has fully recommited to me and our marriage. I have stopped checking phone records this week and I won't startup again unless her behvaviour changes. NC is just solidly in place.

In fact she got angry with me earlier today - she said "How could you get so FvCKING BORING and make me do this stupid thing? Why did it take this MESS to make you be YOU again ?????????!!!!!!!!!!!". I know thats an LB <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But I understood it in the context of our conversation.

Now of course I pointed out that nothing I did "made her" have an affair but I took it on the chin that I had indeed stopped trying to 'entertain' Squid as she built an independent life in Karate.
This discussion then gave me my first opportunity to tell her what MY married life was like before the affair. She treated me as her banker and babysitter and nothing else.

She apologised, wet eyed. I apologised (again). We kissed. And KISSED !!! Then went to IKEA and bought some Christmas decorations holding hands.

So shes become loving, a great mum , an attentive wife and is starting to open up to me regarding her feelings around the affair despite her discomfort, and we're doing so without LBs and still friends afterwards.
So THAT how well we're doing. The rollercoaster goes down...it also goes up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Days/weekends like this make the huge one sided investment of my love and patience in her recently seem effortless and worthwhile.

Sure, we'll go down the 'coaster again but every sustainable , non-honeymoon period 'up' seems to make us stronger for the next down.

I love her so much I forget why I am still sad at my core sometimes. Then I remember, and its cr@p BUT when I come over with sadness or anger I tell Squid "I'm getting sad or angry and I need a big hug from you ". And she drops whatever shes doing and comes and holds me like her life depends on it. I even got a: "for what its worth to you, I really love you. I always have".

She thinks I disbelieve everything she says. That I DESERVE to disbelieve everything she says. THAT I believe as her actions have been so loving for weeks now, no actress could execute them.

Theres still bad stuff - she hasn't dumped OMs love letters yet, indicating that she still thinks their affair was a true love thing, and he wasn;t a wastrel scumbag but i HAVE asked her very politely to get rid. I'll get more forceful soon. Stupidly I know where her 'stash' is but it means nothing if I throw them out. She has to. Its like her throwing HIM Out then IMO.

We might just do this recovery thing y'know.

An update for anyone bothered. Thanks for reading ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />