I just can t take any more I went to my W house to try to get her to read some of this stuff She told me that it doesn t change what you did there was no reason for it I just don t understand why she won t even look at some of this stuff What is she afraid she might see I am almost willing to do anything to win her love back But how many times should I beat the hell out of myself or let her beat the hell out of me I know I did wrong and she almost seem to get her jollies reminding me You know all this is not worth all this pain I have already been to the brink of comitting suicide once and stopped myself because I thought that our marriage was worth trying to save She accuses me of not living up to our marriage vows and I suppose that she is very right but at this point I think I may honor them til death do us part comes to mind and give her what she wants her freedom I really can t stand this pain anymore I can t eat sleep or function anymore when it comes to empty love banks I think not only is mine empty but they tore down the building and made it a vacant lot i hate the silence that i sit in I live in a 4 room house with 2 St Bernards and a cat 1 picture each of my 3 daughters and 2 pic of my dead son I get no phone calls unless she wants something My youngest Daughter(12) has yet to spend 1 nite with me i have been living by myself for about 2 months Even the oldest doesn t come around unless she wants something I find myself setting there pic on the coffee table and talking to them as if they were all there with me and of course the dogs and cat and I have had some pretty good conversations too But when I get done talking all there is silence Is it any wonder why when the OW comes and checks on me I m so thrilled and why the mere thought of giving her up scares the hell out of me at this point although I know I should I will say thers no sex between me and the OW buts there is conversation and understanding it getting to the point that i would rather have the OW care and understanding than to put myself through any more of this pain trying to save my marriage Like many folks out here this is about the only place I have to vent Thanks for listening

ddt46 (sounds like a spy name)...<P>Although I know how you feel: the aloneness and shame, I have a suggestion for you. The one thing that jumps out at me is that the OW is visiting you. You can't allow that if you're trying to get your wife back! Sex or no sex, she can't be in your life right now. I notice from your profile that you two have broken up and gotten back together several times. Was your W around for that? If so, that might be part of the reason she is having such a hard time forgiving you.<BR>Plus, the fact that the OW is married means that she is also cheating on her H. She needs to stay away from you too. I know it hurts to hear. Keep in mind that I am the betrayer, but that I have been betrayed also. I honestly do understand the pain from both sides.<P>Trying to win your W back is hard work, especially when you the one to betray. You should not beat yourself up (something I constantly have to remind myself of) and you marriage isn't over until it's over. Never give up hope until it's all the way over, and the divorce is final. Although I feel like somewhat of a hypocrite saying it since I feel about like you do.<P>Also, I understand about talking to the pictures of you daughters, and about talking to the animals (I have 3 cats and a huge great dane, and they get talked at plenty!) <P>My H is still at home, after moving out for a brief time, but sometimes it doesn't seem like he's really here at all. He has a very hard time forgiving me. Can I ask a question? Is this the first time you cheated? Did your wife move right out upon discovery of your affair? <P>I do understand your lonliness and fear. I hope that you can find the peace you are looking for. Again, don't look to the OW to find it. You will do both of you a favor (and it shows true love toward your OW if you leave her to work on her marriage first).<P>n_b<P>------------------<BR>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited September 19, 1999).]

Sorry to say it isn t we have been married for 27 yrs this coming Thur and at about yr 5 I had affair and we got back together and everything was fine til last dec

Copied this here for you coz donn't know if you saw it the first time. <P>There can be NO forward movement with your wife until YOU decide what you really want.<BR>The OW will HAVE to go if you want to have ANY hope of reconciliation. Hard to hear, I know, but it is soo true. You can write love letters, apology letters, respect letters, send flower till you are blue in the face, but nothing will crack her wall until she realizes the sacrifice you are willing to make of letting the OW go.<P>As I said before to your previous post...<P><BR>Before you there are two paths. One with the OW and one with the wife. Both paths are filled with pain and frustartions. In some ways, the path with the OW might be easier as you will not have to fight (yet) for acceptance and love. But this path is a dead end. The OW is married and does not want to include you in every aspect of her life until death do you part. That relationship will not even begin to fill your needs and certainly will not allow you to be all you can be for her. <BR>The one with your wife will, without a doubt, be one of the most difficult paths your life has taken. It involves so many factors that must be dealt with and will be VERY painful and take a VERY long time. But twenty seven years is a long time too and it certainly has not been without pain. Your primary and God blessed bonds are with your wife. It is on this path that God will give you strength. On the path with the OW he will leave you on your own. Oh, he'll be there watching, but the relationship with her is not sanctified in his eyes and he therefore cannot step in and allow miracles to occur.<BR>The path with your wife will need miracles along the way, and thank God, that is where the miracles await you. Maybe you need a new purpose, a new focus, a new direction in life. Let that focus be to rebuild upon the 27 year old foundation.<BR>Now, is the time of choice. The two paths are mutually exclusive of each other. They do not overlap except at points of pain.<P>Which path do you REALLY Want? YOU CANNOT GO BOTH Ways?<P>If you choose the OW I am afraid there will not be much guidance from this source, but if you choose the Wife you will be amazed at the power our collective thinking will provide for you.<P>Let us know.<P> <BR>All times are CT (US) <BR>

Your original thread went to page 2, so I am copying my replies to you from last night.<P>I can imagine the pain you are in right now, and how you are afraid to give up what is the only piece of non-loneliness you have - OW. But can you see that you are allowing yourself to get only a temporary fix by seeing her - and how it is swirling you faster and faster down the drain? I think you have an addiction. And you are going to have to face that addiction and overcome it.<P>You can do this, many of the people on this site have. You are in so much pain; the loss of your son, the empty emotional bank from your wife, and an addiction that is really compounding all the negative feelings with a temporary solution. You need a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Your wife and your marriage are those.<P>Your wife isn't willing to live life empty either. Every time you make contact with the OW, you drive your wife and kids farther and farther away from you, and you will get less and less contact with them and the OW. You must see this in order for a solution to this problem to begin.<P>***<BR>The following is my reply from your thread last night:<P>Oh boy, you need help! I am very sorry about your son. And your OW's child also. I can sure see how this all evolved. And what a tough place you are all in.<P>You know what you will receive from all of us, is instruction to end it with the OW, and to try and see what you can do to start meeting the emotional needs your wife has.<P>Hard to do, especially when you are all hurting the way you are. But, I would guess the pain from your sons death for both your wife and you was so great, perhaps your affairs (hers and yours) are a way to keep from feeling all that pain. You are saying to me - Oh we felt it - but yes you are, but you aren't getting to the comfort. That is what God brings to you, not the OW or OM.<P>I think what you need to decide is what you want, to work on the marriage or end it. It seems to me that the best thing you can do is to work on it, which can only be given it's best opportunity if you end the relationship in every possible way with your OW.<P>If you want to work on it, I think you will find your best comfort with your wife. The affairs have cheated you both out of so much. So much that each of you can only get from each other. No OW and no OM can ever give to you or your wife what you two can give to one another. <P>I'm sure your relationship with the OW is very bonded, and very deep. It is going to take all the strength you can muster to end it with her. <P>But, to me, it seems the only thing you can do.<P>***<BR>And from the other thread, about your wife's unwillingness to look at the Harley material:<P>Oh, I know how that feels when you have found a resource that can help bring an insight to this situation, and perhaps some solutions, but your mate refuses to work at it, or even look at the site or material.<P>Private Lies is a book many say is very good to understand the affair - might be good for you to read, and Surviving an Affair is another one for both of you to read.<P>My husband doesn't come to the site, and refuses to read any of the material. But that is okay, because I have learned some things that have made some change in our marriage from this site.<P>Did you read the plan A and plan B that is on the first page of the site? It is very good. It seems to me Plan A might work for you. izzy has a thread about the plan's, and you might take a look at that. <P>Was there just a lack of meeting each other's needs? Or was there also lovebusters? Or was it a little of both? There was a lot of lovebusters in our marriage, and a little of not meeting each other's needs. <P>Well, just keep reading and posting - you will get a lot of support from us. <P>There has been some nasty posters lately, so a lot of members haven't been reading all the threads, avoiding the pain of the unknown, so I would imagine this is why you haven't been responded to yet. <P>I think you would agree that your life would be far more unfulfilling if you chose divorce, and once in a while contact with your OW. I would imagine it would become a lonely empty life. Give her up and give your marriage all the chances that it deserves.<P>I am so sorry about you losing your son.<P><p>[This message has been edited by trustntruth (edited September 19, 1999).]

I m not asking my wife to take me back or to forget or to forgive what I did I know the OW must go out of my life no matter how much it hurts All Im asking of my wife is get on the same page as I am so she know what I m doing and understand what I ll be going through to help her understand my moods and actions and reactions Yes I love the OW very much and yes I know that I have come to rely on her very much and Yes I do love my wife My moving out was not my idea it was hers

Dear DDT - I understand what you are asking your wife. Does she have a computer? Does she have email? I would be happy to correspond with her - will she agree to this?<P>If you give up the OW, you will go through withdrawal, and perhaps with her anger right now - and her internet affair - she may not be the best support for you at the moment. It may take her a little time.<P>How often are your visits with the OW? How much contact do you have with your wife?<BR>

I see the my wife maybe once or twice a week sometimes less and I see the OW about the same My wife doesn t even think that she is having affair Because she is not having sex with this guy In her eyes I am the bad guy because of the sex thing I can t get her to see that what shes doing on the puter is just as bad as what I m doing and neither of us with we are doing is helping the marriage at all With any addiction if you don t have the help and support of you friends and family your not going to stay clean I speak from exper my mother was a drug user for many years I don t have any real friends and the few I do have I do not want them to know about this or the OW as most of them know her also as for family most of my family live to far away to be of any help to me in this thing So that leaves me with either my wife who thinks shes not doing anything wrong and its all me or I have no one

DDT,<P>I live 2000 miles from my family. If I didn't have this computer I would go NUTS....<P>I don't want to sound presumptuous, but you are not alone - you have us. Many times family and friends want to give you the love and support that you need, but their advice is usually all wrong. My family would tell me to just get a divorce and get on with my life. And that of course - goes so against my grain.<P>So, maybe your support system - or lack of it, is a blessing in disguise.<P>I read a book a long time ago about crisis. I think it was called "Managed Crisis"? Anyway, the theory was - that life is a series of changes, and many time the changes are felt like crisis's. And it is important to anticipate the changes/crisis's - because it is the best way to "manage" them. Does that make sense?<P>Anyway - if the change/crisis is planned for, we can go through it with smoother sailing. I think you need to identify a couple of confidants, and maybe keep posting on this board - making some friends here - to help you through this thing. <P>Maybe the first step in managing this?<BR>

I forgot to add this.<P>About your wife and her internet affair. <P>According to Harley Principles, an affair is what the betrayed spouse defines it to be. Your wife, in your opinion is having an affair through the internet. Whether or not she owns up to it, doesn't matter at this point. Having to deal with it from a betrayed persons' point of view is the perspective you would need if you were going to follow the Marriage Builders principles.<P>Did you read on the site somewhere that the Harley principles have been successful in helping couples recover from infidelity +/- 90%? That gives me hope. You need hope.<P>Conventional marriage counseling/therapists have only a +/- 20% success rate. I don't know about you, but I'm going to go with the methods that have been proven to work - because I want to beat this thing.<P>And, my husband isn't on the site, won't read the material, calls it a lovebuster because I come to the site - but I can tell you this - I HAVE seen changes for the better in my marriage by employing some of these techniques. I was ready to throw in the towel in May, when I first started posting.<P>Lurking helped, but posting helped more. Posting helped me identify what I was feeling, and making some sort of sense out of this nightmare.<P>We are here for you. You are not alone.

One more thing.<P>I just want to let you know, that I know it took tons of courage for you to start posting here. That is a major step - and you just need to go about recovering from all this pain with one step at a time. One foot in front of the other, baby steps. Each step will give you more courage to keep on trying.<P>You must be a terrific person to have stayed married 27 years this week, and suffered tremendously in the last couple of years. That shows commitment. That means you have it inside of you. You can find it inside of you again.<P>

up to the top

Thank You to all that have Helped me with your kind words and for giving me hope the W told me shes going to file for divorce and theres nothing I can do to change that and I better get use to the idea she said any marriage building I do I better save for the next W She also said what little bit she read was a lot of BS again thanks

I'm sorry, DDT.<P>But just because one spouse insists on a divorce, doesn't mean that this is where it will lead. You have some control here, but you don't see it? <P>When you telephone her, is she very angry with you? Then maybe find out if there is another way to begin building the bridge to her heart. Maybe by dropping by with a movie and a bag of popcorn, and ask if she wants company? Or box of expensive chocolates? Maybe if she says no, you can make a little ritual out of doing this for her anyway, leave the movie, leave the popcorn, leave the chocolates - but have her become expectant of your gestures?<P>And, you maybe have to prove somehow that you will end the relationship with the OW. <P>She needs to see that you are the man you have always been, just made a mistake and got sidetracked at the most awful time in both of your lives.<P>Sometimes us stubborn wives need to be proven to that you won't hurt us like that again. Show her!

Short of TNT I don think there is anything she will let me do to melt her heart that I turned to stone I really would like to try but right now I think the best thing for me to do is leave her alone and try to deal with the thought that she is gone from my life for good so any advice how to spend your wedding annver alone

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think the best thing for me to do is leave her alone and try to deal with the thought that she is gone from my life for good<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And how are you gonna do that? Sit around & mope! NOT! You have plenty of work to do whether you get a divorce or not! You need to work on your relationship & communication skills or else all your future relationships (current wife or not) will not work.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR>

DDT<BR>let me get right to the point. i understand your situation, i was in somewhat the same. you have two choices. 1. tell the OW you are making a sincere effort to rebuild your life and marriage and you cannot see her anymore. OR 2. Tell your wife you dont know what you want and seek God based professional help. <BR>I know what you are feeling and I also know the pain better every day of what I did. If the OW oved you, she woud see that you are married and get the H--- out of your life. Go get the book, the relationship toolbox, pick the chapter first that you relate to the most then read it again and again. God will not let you go through any more than you can handle, but you have to assume some RESPONSIBILITY for your actions. Get rid of the OW pal, and guess what, maybe just maybe your wife will think you are sincere. dont expect a miracle over night, change begines with admitting were wrong. Ill pray for you

I printed several relavant threads and left them around the house. She read them, and commented. It works if she'll look.