And anyone else out there who might be interested in my story.

My very first posts. Reading them I realised I don't need to write my story, it's all here.

After these posts there were MANY more ups and downs till final real live proper recovery. LOL.

And it's worth it to read these just to give my thanks to JL once again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


This is topic "How my BS lifted the fog" in forum In recovery at Marriage Builders Discussion Forums.


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Posted by KiwiJ (Member # 33067) on February 04, 2004 03:42 PMFebruary 04, 2004 03:42 PM:

Even though I live on the other side of the world to most of you (New Zealand) your stories could all be mine. Just shows human nature is the same world wide.

Long story short. I had an A with my old high school sweetheart when we went to funeral together of an old friend (after not seeing each other for 30 years!). It all started slowly but became a PA after three months. Went on for a year and then ended in April last year by mutual consent. I didn't want it to end but agreed it was for the best.

I told my H 3 months ago when he found relationship books I had been keeping in my dresser drawer. We have been to MC which has in my opinion saved our marriage.

He has also saved our marriage by talking and talking and talking. Last night was the breakthrough when he asked me to tell my story right from the beginning. He listened to every word without any nasty remarks or angry feelings. He said it still hurt him badly but he loved me deeply and was sad for all of us involved. Telling my story helped us both as I was totally honest about my feelings. The thing that really clinched it for me was him saying he could understand it all but everything I was saying was textbook A language. Somehow I was ready to hear it from him and I started feeling remorse and negative feelings about OM.

Hope this makes sense. The overwhelming thing was the love he showed while he listened to me. We have had all the angry outbursts etc. and this is what made the difference.

Hope this helps some of you out there.

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Posted by Just Learning (Member # 2984) on February 04, 2004 05:56 PMFebruary 04, 2004 05:56 PM:

KiwiJ,

You are not the first Kiwi who has been on this site. We have had a few and they have always been an asset. I hope you come and post somemore.

I do have a question for you. What have you been doing for your H to help him? How long have you two been married? Do you know why you chose to have the A with old BF?

You seem to be married to a very strong man. I would imagine it really hurt him to sit and to listen to what you had to say. No one likes to hear that they have fallen off the radar screen in favor of someone else. I do hope you thanked him for listening to you. Have you listen to him?

Must go, keep posting and reading.

God Bless,

JL

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Posted by KiwiJ (Member # 33067) on February 04, 2004 06:52 PMFebruary 04, 2004 06:52 PM:

Thanks JL for your reply. I wondered if anyone would. A bit of background then. Married H when I was 20 and he was 25. Been married 30 years this August. Two children a boy (26) and a girl (23) who both know. We decided it would be best to tell them as their parents might be acting a bit "strange" for a while. Son took it well, daughter didn't but I now have the same close relationship with her I always did.

I guess I had the A with the old BF because when I saw him again all the old feelings came rushing back and I felt like I'd been hit over the head with a sledgehammer. Also, when we were young we never had sex and it was something I always felt I "owed" him. I left him when we were young for someone else, not H, and he was absolutely devastated. Also we were at a funeral with many old friends from the past and my teenage years started looking very appealing. No excuses though.

H and I had also been through a very tough time the year before as my dad died in the January and then his mother died in the May and his father died in the October. All very stressful and he and I were both very depressed. I suppose old BF was a bright spot in a very tough time.

As for listening to H, yes I do and thank him for loving me so much. I have been in particularly bad withdrawal from OM and he has been as supportive as he can, given how hurt and bad he feels. I also support him and make sure we talk and spend loads of time together. We try to be positive at all times and this has really helped us move forward. We both want to save this marriage (I couldn't have cared 6 months ago)which, up to the last 2 years, was very good. I'm nearly 50 and I think started questioning my life to date including marriage, work etc.

Don't get me wrong, we have had some very unhappy moments in the last 3 months but finally I seem to have made some sort of breakthrough into my fog and that's the best part of all.

KiwiJ

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Posted by Just Learning (Member # 2984) on February 04, 2004 07:44 PMFebruary 04, 2004 07:44 PM:

KiwiJ,

So let's see if I have the timing right. You were in the A for a year. The year before he lost both of his parents and you lost your Dad. Is that right?

You have been out of the A for 3 months is that right or is that when you told your H? What prompted you to tell your H, if you really didn't care about the marriage any longer??

So If I am doing my math is right, you are 3 months into recovery and about the same 9 months since the end of the A? So you were in withdrawal for 6-9 months?? Might still be a bit now right?

I take it your H has really tried to keep this together, but I would also guess he hasn't had time to really assess what has happened. I say this because it seems at around 6 months into recovery the BS (betrayed spouse) often shows anger as they face two things. One they realize the marriage might really make it and Two the question if it should?

Why does it take that length of time? I don't really know, but I suspect that eventually the level of effort that is being expended to save the marriage levels off and he has real time to examine this and consider his options. The true magnitude of things start to hit him, and the feelings of being second choice show up. Plus often the WS (wayward spouse) may have done things with the OP (other person) that they would not do or hadn't done in a long time with the spouse.

So what I am saying here is to keep an eye on your H. Low self-esteem, depression, and just a feeling of being lost are not uncommon. He will very likely need more help than you realize now, and if he is like a lot of us guys he will withdraw rathe than ask for it. Up to now the focus has been mainly on you, certainly for him. Now it will shift and that is where the questioning seems to start and sometimes what is called the "movies" the images in his head of you and OM together. These are hard to deal with, but time and reassurances or even making new memories with him do help.

It does sound as if you two are doing very well given the time in recovery. I hope as the fog wears off, you will begin to develop a deeper understanding of what this has done. Often it takes a year to see some of these things.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

PS: I want to also suggest that you read the articles on this site. They can be very helpful along with your work with the MC.

[ February 04, 2004, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]

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Posted by KiwiJ (Member # 33067) on February 04, 2004 11:18 PMFebruary 04, 2004 11:18 PM:

Thanks JL (my real initials which is quite funny).

I had gone onto MB while the A was still on to try and make sense of things and it really helped a great deal.

I think what I'm trying to say is that whenever this topic comes up at home (which it does constantly not surprisingly) my H has always reacted by being very hurt and angry (also not surprisingly). I've heard bad language from him I haven't heard in many years (I mean not against me but usual young man stuff) and it was very hurtful and upsetting for both of us, not just me. He would never be violent in any way whatsover but some of the things he said were very nasty. eg OM was just after a good f* and that's what he got.

We were making huge progress (our marriage counsellor calls us her star couple) and then out of the blue it all came back to him as I know it does and, from me reading these posts, told him to expect.

But this time he said he would listen carefully and he did without any bad remarks. I really want to say that's what really broke through for me.

As for time frames, it does look a bit messy.

Parents passed on in 2001. Started A Feb 2002 and finished PA in September 2002. Kept up contact till April 2003. Met by accident? in June 2003 and agreed absolutely NC. D-day October 2003. Contact by e-mail from OM on Dec 22. Told H about it and that I'd e-mailed him back with "Merry Christmas to you to and have a good holiday". Very bad time for H and me.

The books I had were pretty obvious "Parting Successfully", "How to mend your broken heart", "His Needs/Her Needs" and "Relationship Rescue". I always knew I'd tell him if he asked. I wasn't going to be one of those who deny, deny, deny. I always felt we couldn't move forward if he didn't even know he was fighting for his marriage. And yes he's very strong.

Kiwi J

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Posted by Uphill (Member # 26023) on February 05, 2004 05:57 AMFebruary 05, 2004 05:57 AM:

Kiwi:

So, now that you're out of the fog and all, how do you plan to make it up to your H?

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Posted by Suzet (Member # 24757) on February 05, 2004 07:21 AMFebruary 05, 2004 07:21 AM:

KiwiJ,

I’ve just read your post for the first time today and I’m so glad you have post this topic! If it can help any BS’s out there to exactly understand and realize the tremendous healing power of their continuous attentiveness, interest and listening skills towards their FWS’s that will be wonderful. I can understand how your H’s reaction has been of the most help to lift your fog. It makes perfect sense. And I know if a BS is attentive and loving towards the FWS, it’s so much easier for the FWS to become radically honest and total open about everything. Honesty and openness itself have a big healing power. I never had the chance to be totally and radically honest with my H because he preferred it that way for some reasons. I know if my dear H could have react the same way while I was in withdrawal just after my inappropriate friendship has ended, that would be of so much help to me either… I can even go so far to say that the continuous listening, interest and attentiveness of a BS without being judgmental can be of TREMENDOUS help to help a FWS getting through the withdrawal process easier and much sooner and also to help overcome the emotional attachment to the OP. Talking to someone without the fear of being rejected is the greatest therapy for a FWS and if that ‘sounding board’ can indeed be the BS what a great help and blessing! But… I totally understand it is very difficult and painful (and sometimes impossible) for the BS to listen to the FWS because they have their own pain and scars to heal from... My H has always been very loving and supportive towards me, but I know and accept there were reasons why he couldn’t really listen to me without becoming emotionally upset. That’s the main reason why it’s mostly better for the FWS to talk/consult a professional outside person (IC and/or MC) of trusting person to ‘get everything out of their system’, BUT if it’s at all possible for a BS to listen and talk to FWS him/herself, so much better. I hope this could be of some help too.

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Posted by Suzet (Member # 24757) on February 05, 2004 08:32 AMFebruary 05, 2004 08:32 AM:

Kiwi, I don't mean to highjack your thread, but I just want to add (after my previous post) that I understand it’s equally important - for the recovering of the marriage and personal recovery of the BS’s - that the FWS’s must be loving, attentive, supportive, understanding towards the feelings of their hurt and wounded BS’s at the same time too… I think the commitment and sincere remorse & repentance of FWS’s towards their BS’s must be am indication to the BS's that the FWS’s are indeed trying to make it up to them... If a FWS is willing to send a NC-letter and actually doing it and show willingness to stay committed to the BS and to the M by not contacting the OP ever again (and learned from previous mistakes) and visit an IC and/or MC, I think it must also be a true indication to the BS that the FWS is committed and trying to make it up to them… Am I on the right truck here? BS's? Any thoughts?

[ February 05, 2004, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]

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Posted by awed18 (Member # 29801) on February 05, 2004 08:59 AMFebruary 05, 2004 08:59 AM:

Thanks Kiwi for this post. I am always trying to encourage BS to listen, listen safely, listen calmly, discuss calmly...it is a tremendously hard thing to do as a BS, which is why JL asked if you'd thanked your H.

I agree with Suzet...I think you've done a fabulous job of explaining this from a WS perspective.

So I'm going to send a few newbies over here to read "from the horse's mouth" so to speak...I'm just warning you so that if you get some negative comments, please don't take it personally! A lot of folks are hurting badly...that's all.

Hope you are enjoying your summer and having lovely weather...we've been having -40 degree weather and freezing our butts off recently! My my my...halfway round the world sounds like just the ticket to me!

Take care and thanks again...awed

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Posted by KiwiJ (Member # 33067) on February 05, 2004 02:11 PMFebruary 05, 2004 02:11 PM:

Thanks everyone for really getting my point, which was that H was non judgemental and just listened and listened.

As to what I'm doing. Making sure there is NC AT ALL. I still look for OM's car which really bugs me because I just want all memories of him to fade and just be part of my past.

Spending LOADS of time with H. This has been easy because it is our summer and we have had summer holidays which has really helped bring us together. His efforts have been amazing - suggesting picnics on the beach etc. (Never did this before - life hadn't been much fun at all for either of us) Making sure we have fun together, going out to the movies, to dinner etc. We both love our garden and hadn't bothered with it at all over the last couple of years - spent hours together working in it. I call it my "recovery garden".

Its funny but sex with OM was quite average - so H knows that and I tell him all the time how much better it is with H - (and it is). I don't shut off when he tells me about work etc. and we laugh a lot more (weren't doing that either).

In fact doing everything Dr Harley suggests. I NEVER thought I'd get back my feelings for H but with both our hard work - back they're coming.

It's tough sometimes and I know it'll be tough again but it's the effort that really counts.

Glorious sunny day here again today )

Kiwi J

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Posted by KiwiJ (Member # 33067) on February 05, 2004 02:25 PMFebruary 05, 2004 02:25 PM:

Sorry, just reread my post and I don't tell OM sex is better with H - I tell H!

As to making it up to him - I'll be really there and committed to H till we're REALLY old - not just middle aged!

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Posted by Iceprincess (Member # 21351) on February 05, 2004 02:26 PMFebruary 05, 2004 02:26 PM:

Dear KIWI:

I applaud you for doing something that many WSs don't do...TALK.

Talk about the A, talk about YOUR feelings. With honesty. No lies, no bending the truth whichever way it is convenient. Standing up for what you have done.

Many WS (I think from reading here...men-WS even more than women stonewall, withdraw, "can't remember", "don't want to talk about it", "are not having this conversation").

You did you H an enormous favor in talking open and honest. You probably advanced your recovery at rocket speed.

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Posted by Just Learning (Member # 2984) on February 05, 2004 06:49 PMFebruary 05, 2004 06:49 PM:

KiwiJ,

I am curious about something. Please answer if you feel like it. I don't sense a great deal of remorse that this happened only that perhaps it hurt your H some. I sense from your post that your H is doing most of the thinking and changing and while you are spending more time with him (very good to do), that he is driving this recovery.

Please tell me I am wrong. If I am right, then while I am not surprised you feel as you do, then I think you may be in for a shock. Your H's recovery is going to take longer than you think. While he has changed and seems to be doing all of the right things, don't be surprised that he has a long way to go to recover.

One other note of concern and one I think you really need to consider is your children. You said
quote:
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Son took it well, daughter didn't but I now have the same close relationship with her I always did.
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I wonder how well son took it. Us guys tend to hide alot of our emotions. Have you talked with him lately. I say this because events such as yours tend to remove confidence and trust in those around you. Not in just you, but in people that who MAY become close to them, in your case a young lady he may meet. The same with your daughter. I suppose you have talked with her much more because she didn't take it well, but how is she doing now?

I mention all of these things because it seems you are just now coming out of the "fog". And usually while in the "fog" people are really unaware of the damage they do.

You mentioned for example 6 months ago you did not care if the marriage made it or not, but that only two years out of 30 were bad. The causes for these bad two years were very obvious and not really something your H could have helped or prevented.

That fact alone often leads to a loss of self-esteem and confidence in ones self. I suspect your H is going to need a lot of reenforcement from you as the months move along.

Just some thoughts and guesses.

God Bless,

JL

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Posted by KiwiJ (Member # 33067) on February 05, 2004 08:16 PMFebruary 05, 2004 08:16 PM:

I will answer JL because I was nearly going to put all that on my very first post. Unfortunately you have hit the nail right on the head.

I did tell my H that I am sorry I hurt him (and I would never wish to cause that sort of pain to anyone ever again - that the person you are meant to be closest to in the whole world is in the worst pain they've ever been in because of you is unbelievably distressing) but you are right I have never said I'm sorry I did it. This has been the cause of a great deal of pain for my H and also that I couldn't reassure him that I wouldn't have gone if OM had left his W for me.

The huge breakthrough I am talking about is that I am actually caring and feeling remorse for the first time and being able to tell H I love him and really mean it and yes, H drove our recovery by being sure he was going to keep me come h** or highwater. H said many times to me at the beginning that he felt I was only staying with him because he was the only option (apart from me being on my own which he knew I didn't want.)

The breakthrough is that I am now staying because I want to be with H and he knows it. He has told me he doesn't feel so insecure or lonely any more and that he feels the difference in my whole attitude.

I could have reassured him right from the start and begged for forgiveness and promised him it would never happen again but they would have just been words. It was awful for both of us that I couldn't but I wanted to be in the place I am now where I can honestly mean it. Didn't even know if I would reach that place but I have done everything I possibly can to reach it.

As for my kids, our son lives with us again (after moving out for 2 years - do they do that in the US as well LOL) and gives us space. He has a lovely GF now after the same thing happened to him (his exGF cheated on him) and seems to understand that his parents need space and time. He's pretty laid back about life and I know he'd talk if he wanted to. He's the sort of person who wouldn't have a problem with talking.

I work in the same office as daughter and see her every day (she lives with her very long term BF not far from us) and as long as her mum and dad are still together she will be fine - that's the reassurance for her. We're a very close family ironically.

J

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Posted by pattibella (Member # 31364) on February 06, 2004 07:32 AMFebruary 06, 2004 07:32 AM:

Dear KiwiJ and all who have replied:

Wow! More revelations for me absorb. My H is still not able to say he is sorry that he did it. He has said he is sorry that I found the phone messages and letters as "they were not meant for my eyes and ears". We are 6 mo post D-day and I am on the rollercoaster of wondering is this really recovery or will something else come along and set me back. I still ask alot of questions.....he gets frustrated saying he has told me everything...yet each time I ask the same question the reply is a bit different. He never wrote a NC letter like I asked (OW continued to call for about 6 weeks after D-day and my insistance that NC occur). I asked him to get rid of all gifts OW gave and 3 months later he said he did although he would not let me witness it.

I believe he wants to move forward and he says he is over it.....but it is hard for me to believe he is truly over it.

But hearing you talk has given me more perspective on where he is and why. Thank you so much for sharing!

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Posted by Just Learning (Member # 2984) on February 06, 2004 12:26 PMFebruary 06, 2004 12:26 PM:

KiwiJ,

I am glad to see my intuition is not completely shot. But, I am sorry to see that I was sort of right.

I think the NEXT breakthrough that will have to occur is that you begin to see things from your H's perspective and gain some insight into the pain and damage. Trust me on this, if you are just coming to the point where you can say you are sorry, you have NO idea what your H has gone through, YET.

I thought I would illustrate what I am talking about by referencing your comments.

You said
quote:
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I did tell my H that I am sorry I hurt him (and I would never wish to cause that sort of pain to anyone ever again - that the person you are meant to be closest to in the whole world is in the worst pain they've ever been in because of you is unbelievably distressing) but you are right I have never said I'm sorry I did it. This has been the cause of a great deal of pain for my H and also that I couldn't reassure him that I wouldn't have gone if OM had left his W for me.
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And you still cannot tell him these right? Someday and I hope soon you will come back here and read this paragraph and just cringe at what you said and did. You will know why people in affairs are referred to as being in the "FOG". I can imagine the coldness of hearing "sorry I hurt you...but"

I am sure you would have gone with OM and so is your H. That is something he will carry with him for the rest of his life. The irony is/was that it is likely you and OM would NOT have made it as a pair. The statistics show a very low success rates for marriages spawned by affairs. It is a good thing he pushed to end it.
quote:
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The huge breakthrough I am talking about is that I am actually caring and feeling remorse for the first time and being able to tell H I love him and really mean it and yes, H drove our recovery by being sure he was going to keep me come h** or highwater. H said many times to me at the beginning that he felt I was only staying with him because he was the only option (apart from me being on my own which he knew I didn't want.)
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AND...he was right. Sad isn't it? The point here is these things will be holes in his heart for a long time. I realize you are not able to address them now, because frankly you don't see them. You are still shifting your focus from OM to your H, and there is a strong reluctance to really stand back and look at what was done. Very normal, but I am suggesting that for your marriage to truely heal you are going to have to see those holes for what they are and address them with him. He will need a lot of help from you.
quote:
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The breakthrough is that I am now staying because I want to be with H and he knows it. He has told me he doesn't feel so insecure or lonely any more and that he feels the difference in my whole attitude.
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KiwiJ, that is very good news. But as I said there is another breakthrough required for this marriage to heal or will be a very lopsided marriage with him carrying a lot of heavy baggage due to your choices. I don't think you can see that yet.
quote:
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I could have reassured him right from the start and begged for forgiveness and promised him it would never happen again but they would have just been words. It was awful for both of us that I couldn't but I wanted to be in the place I am now where I can honestly mean it. Didn't even know if I would reach that place but I have done everything I possibly can to reach it.
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So have you actually asked him to forgive you? Your promise that it won't happen again won't mean much however. You made much stronger promises when you married, the vows you took. They are shattered. It will take a long time before he feels he can trust what you say about him and the marriage.

However, you have don well to try and reach this state and finally get there. You are to be congratulated for you efforts.
quote:
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As for my kids, our son lives with us again (after moving out for 2 years - do they do that in the US as well LOL)
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I believe the term used here are "boomerang" kids. Can't imagine where that term came from. They leave, they come back. The good news for me is when the last one leaves I am going to a "rest home".
quote:
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He has a lovely GF now after the same thing happened to him (his exGF cheated on him) and seems to understand that his parents need space and time. He's pretty laid back about life and I know he'd talk if he wanted to. He's the sort of person who wouldn't have a problem with talking.
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Oh! KiwiJ don't be so sure about that. I don't think young men/boys are any different there than here. Did his finding out that his exGF cheated on him hurt him? Did it hurt you to watch him dealing with it? Or where you aware of it?

Frankly, I suspect he has more questions about women and the meaning of marriage than he has ever had before, but I doubt he could figure out a polite way to broach such a subject to you. Especially since it has only been very recently that you WANTED to stay with your H/his father. If the young man is at all sensitive, he would NEVER bring up his feelings on this matter when you were still deciding if you even wanted to be with his father.
quote:
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I work in the same office as daughter and see her every day (she lives with her very long term BF not far from us) and as long as her mum and dad are still together she will be fine - that's the reassurance for her. We're a very close family ironically.
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I think you are progressing well, but I suspect the next breakthrough is going to be painful for you. I suspect that you don't understand the depths to which your A has affected your family yet. It may be years coming out, but this next breakthrough won't happen until you see these events through the eyes of the loved ones around you.

When you do get there and I think you will. Would you do me a favor? Come back and read this particular thread. I think it will chill you a bit.

All in all it sounds like you are making good progress. I hope you continue to post, and start to read others posts. I suspect you can and will be a very good source of help and knowledge. Meanwhile keep working on the marriage and talking to your H.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Where do you live in NZ? I been to parts of your country but by no means all of it. It was a beautiful beautiful place.

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Posted by KiwiJ (Member # 33067) on February 06, 2004 02:26 PMFebruary 06, 2004 02:26 PM:

Wow, JL your intuition is scarey - and it's coming from half a world away. LOL.

I seem to be helping some people which I feel wonderful about - some good might come out of this mess.

What my original post was all about is how far BS's can go to help and I'll add some more. We went to see a MC the day after D-day. H told his sister and BIL and I had told my mother. Their support has been invaluable. Just sad for us, not angry - and convinced we'll make it.

The MC told me I need to "grow up" (told me in a very understanding way). She has done a lot of work with both of us including grief work over our parents. H was devastated I started A soon after his father died. Can't believe no one on this board has given me a huge 2 x 4 for this. MC helped us understand that it was all part of my immaturity (and I'm nearly 50 LOL) and that I coped with all the grief etc by running away to another strong man when H (who is very strong emotionally) wasn't coping. It's not something I like to see in myself but that's all part of coming to terms with this.

The Fog, JL, is truly a fog. During A I sometimes went outside during the night and just cried and shook about what I was doing. And then the fog comes down and it becomes all about me, me, me. I agree with you, I think one day and I think it might be soon I'm going to be absolutely overwhelmed by what I've done.

I know you are worried about my kids but they're very mature young people and had very secure happy childhoods - must count for something. I did help son when he was going through a very bad time - that's why he came home again - he left home to follow her to another city. And, yes they're called "boomerang" kids here as well. (Do they ever leave?).

J

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Posted by Just Learning (Member # 2984) on February 06, 2004 03:10 PMFebruary 06, 2004 03:10 PM:

KiwiJ,

Nearly 50??? I can almost remember when I was your age. That is the one thing about growing older, several things start to go, but I don't remember what they are. In fact in my youth I was a pretty good golfer. I could hit the ball out of sight. Now I can just hit the ball out of sight, but I don't have to swing very hard.

No, one hit you with the 2x4 because it is very common for an A to begin when the family or someone in the family is under stress. It was clear what happened when you posted about both of your parents passing. However, this is also a very good reason why A's don't lead to successful long term relationships. They were started to relieve something one of them couldn't handle. They were nutured in lies and secrecy and neither person is who they really are.

I do think you just mentioned one of the "holes" I talked about. Your was struggling with his loss, and when he wasn't "strong" you sought another. Do you think he might be a bit reluctant to open up to you that he is struggling, lost, confused, needing help?? I do.

Once you make your next breakthrough, you will see the cost of this. Your H now knows he cannot weaken or he runs the risk of you leaving him. This knowledge doesn't usually lead to openness, nor does it lead to confidence. Resentment yes. So keep your eyes open. He will do his best to hide weakness from you. ANGER?? well that is another story, he will and has shown that, but remember anger is a secondary emotion driven by primary onces such as: fear, pain, anxiety, frustration, etc.

You might find it interesting that it is often recommended here that the BS actually help the WS through withdrawal by listening to the WS talk abou the OP and how they really feel about them. Talk about a difficult thing to do. It takes amazing strength but more than a few have done just that as part of plan A. It does work, as it did in your case.


You said
quote:
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I know you are worried about my kids but they're very mature young people and had very secure happy childhoods - must count for something.
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Yes, it counts for a lot. However, because of this upbringing, the odds are high that they held you both in very high esteem. Sort of viewed your marriage as invincible. The bedrock of their lives. That has been shaken. Some handle it differently than others,but it affects all. So just a "heads up" warning here. You may need to take the initiative on this, but I would bet a good heart to heart with your son would not hurt. Especially as you continue to come out of the "fog".
quote:
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I did help son when he was going through a very bad time - that's why he came home again - he left home to follow her to another city.
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Doesn't it break your heart to watch your child go through something like that and you cannot really help?

quote:
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And, yes they're called "boomerang" kids here as well. (Do they ever leave?).
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The rumor I have heard is that when you start "borrowing" money from them, they tend to leave permenately.

Keep up the good work. I think you are going to have a positive effect on many people here.

God Bless,

JL

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Posted by Roman121 (Member # 31171) on February 06, 2004 03:30 PMFebruary 06, 2004 03:30 PM:

Kiwij,
Thank you for your story. It is great encouragement to me to see you come through this way. It helps me to continue to pursue the right path. JL is awesome and a great help to all of us. God's spirit is in him and it shows through his wisdom.

We are almost at the 6 month mark since discovery of my W's A. It has been a longer time however, because I have been trying to win back my W for well over 2 years. She had a recent relapse b/c of OM contact and she fell back. But I see now the fog is lifting again. She is away this week at a training. I was apprehensive about a continuation, but did not ask any questions. For the first time in over a year, she said she missed me. She told me she loved me. These are great signs.

I know we are not in real recovery yet and she could slip again. I also know that she has to be the one to decide the A is over. I beleive she is trying her best. I beleive she wants it to be over. I will continue to hang in there and be available to her. I will continue to love her unconditionally, sacrificially and without fail. I have my anger moments, but God always comes through. Stories like yours are a part of how God speaks to me.

Thankyou again, you are helping. Thanks to JL also. Yes, there is always somthing good to come out of every shattered dream. Alot of time we learn about who we are. We learn the truth about ourselves. Then we can go and make the changes to ourselves necessary to help improve the lives of the ones we love.

In the love of Christ,
Roman121

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Posted by Just Learning (Member # 2984) on February 06, 2004 07:14 PMFebruary 06, 2004 07:14 PM:

KiwiJ,

I have few other profound questions for you. First, I notice that your spelling and choice of wording is NOT English, but American. Are you translating your messages to us? I haven't heard about a "jutter bar" spelling is probably off, or a "jumper", or about "colours" or anything.

Next question do you have 2x4's in NZ? Actually, in the US a 2x4 is really about 1.5 x 3.25 or something like that. Never understood that, but in metric the 2x4 is about 5x10. Would a 5x10 be more effective??

OR are you using Microsoft stuff with those darned spelling checkers???

Must go. I have sent a few over here to read your post. I think you are going to an asset to this site.

JL

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Posted by happycat (Member # 32967) on February 06, 2004 08:13 PMFebruary 06, 2004 08:13 PM:

Kiwi -

A question for you (and anyone else who can answer this). From reading your story, it seems that you would not be in recovery right now if the OM had been willing to leave his W. So, you stayed in the marriage by default and you mentioned that you did not want to be alone.

This reminded me of the story in the book "Surviving an Affair" - where the W left her husband for OW, but then came back only after the OM dumped her and she did not want to be alone.

By coming back to the marriage as default / fear of being alone thing, it gave your H a chance to try to rebuild. Unfortunately, my H (the WS) is not in that situation so I fear that he will never want to come back b/c the OW will not dump him and if she does, he will just find someone else to be with rather than admit any wrong and come back to me.

Am I making sense? I don't see much hope in my situation as compared to your situation or the situation in the Surviving book.

Maybe you can tell me what happened 6 months ago that changed you from not caring whether the marriage worked out to at least trying a little. It seems like you have made a lot of progress since then, but I can't even get my H to try.

Any advice is appreciated - thanks!

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Posted by KiwiJ (Member # 33067) on February 06, 2004 11:04 PMFebruary 06, 2004 11:04 PM:

Replies to Happycat and JL (once again). I am very sorry, Happycat, that your H chose to leave. Just wait till "real life" sets in. As one of my best girlfriends said to me "It all comes down to washing their socks." Now, if someone said that to me while A was on (and friends did) I used to say but this is different, blah, blah, blah.

Our MC has said, and we agree, that in five years we will look back and see this as a blessing that we were given the chance to make our marriage not just good, but better.


OM told me right from the start he would never leave his W (am I stupid, or what?) but as I told H the other night I thought OM would come round eventually (am I stupid, or what?).

I always thought our marriage was one in a million, we didn't fight, we never had "issues", no raised voices. As our MC pointed out to us we didn't really communicate our feelings at all in case one of us got "upset". Which is probably why it worked so well and why the gap when it came was huge. Things were getting very boring (for both of us I might say, as I found out in MC, but not in bed, which is totally weird and which my friends just can't understand), and not just in the year when our parents died, H's very suddenly (heart attacks), my father after a long illness. I certainly didn't go looking for someone else but he turned up, wined and dined me, seemed to have a lovely life, loads of friends, loads of fun, skiing, holiday house, the whole bit. AND THIS IS THE BIGGIE, I have now learned that I don't need someone else to be happy, I can enjoy my own marriage, my own friends, my own good times.

As for what turned me around from not caring - a determination that I would get back what I had with H, (I knew it was lurking there), and that I would make my own happiness.

Now, JL, do you live next door to me or something? By the way thank you for saying my country is beautiful, we like it. LOL. It's funny we call them 4 x 2s in New Zealand (and they should probably be 5 x 10s or whatever, we are completely metric) but I saw on the posts you called them 2 x 4s. Weird, huh? As for translating, I have been a bit. When we sit down to TV and watch Friends followed by Frasier followed by... (you get my drift...) go and eat at McDonalds, watch MTV, go to the movies all from the US, get the news, read the magazines.... I couldn't believe it at work the other day (our daytime of course) we had the Superbowl on!!!!!!!! and the guys were loving it!!!!!!!!!!

J

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Posted by Just Learning (Member # 2984) on February 07, 2004 06:17 PMFebruary 07, 2004 06:17 PM:

KiwiJ,

I must tell you a funny story. Some years ago I had to go to Sweden on business. It was my first time to go Scandanavian (sp). Now you may not know this but there is a large population of people of Swedish decent here in the US. Especially, in Minnesota where you often here English with a Swedish accent.

So I go to Sweden, and what to do I hear?? American style English, with NO accent. In fact, you hear more accents here in the states. Of course years of Dallas, and TV had apparently been the influence. But, it was a shock.

Yes, I do enjoy your country. I have never been to the fiord region of your country, but as far south as Christchruch. The family and I drove around, stayed on a Sheep farm/station/ranch??? and really enjoyed it. Wonderful, place with very very nice people.

However, I won't repeat what the Aussie's say about your guys.

The point is don't translate if you are not comfortable. Given I am a older than you, but knowing your approximate age, you probably went through the conversion between English units and metric. Right?

I work in metric so it is no big deal. My only complaint about the metric system is their choice of Celcius for temperature rather than Fehrenheit.

For human beings degrees F is much more accurate and the 0-100 scale is designed to cover the nominal temperatures of human habitat in this planet. Who cares to address water 0-100 C is not of interest since we will long cease living if it gets to the temperature of boiling water. 100 C

Ok, off my soap box. There is a lengthy post you might find interesting to read. The lady that started it is just now back posting. But, I think you might see things in it, that may help you. Perhaps I am wrong. In any event click on the MrsX, below.


MrsX

Hope your weekend went well.

God Bless,

JL

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Posted by Just Learning (Member # 2984) on February 09, 2004 03:37 PMFebruary 09, 2004 03:37 PM:

KiwiJ,

I wanted to ask you another question, this one serious. You said
quote:
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I certainly didn't go looking for someone else but he turned up, wined and dined me, seemed to have a lovely life, loads of friends, loads of fun, skiing, holiday house, the whole bit. AND THIS IS THE BIGGIE, I have now learned that I don't need someone else to be happy,
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Didn't it cross your mind if his life was so good, he wouldn't be cheating on his W?

He also said that he would never leave his W. So, don't you think your H was right. He was using you, and you him to escape from your down period in the marriage.

No you don't need some one to make you happy. What is good is having someone to share your happiness with. I do hope as you continue to come out of the fog, that you see how lucky you are that H loved you enough to hang in there with all of this. You put a lot on the table when you cheated on your H. The OM seems to have wanted and risked little.

God Bless,

JL

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Posted by KiwiJ (Member # 33067) on February 09, 2004 09:09 PMFebruary 09, 2004 09:09 PM:

JL did you notice I went over and read MrsX's story and replied. It is all so depressing that we (WS's) all tell the same story over and over again.

Answer to your question.
quote:
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Didn't it cross your mind if his life was so good, he wouldn't be cheating on his W?
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Simple truth and this is really starting to hurt now. He was cheating on his W for S-E-X. It was very nice for him that he manipulated old GF who hasn't aged too badly into a nice safe relationship (and I mean safe for him to begin his "playing" career because we knew each other so well when we were young and I trusted he was still the same as that lovely teenage boy. It was very obvious he hadn't done this before and I could lay bets that he will do it again). As MrsX says, this sucks!

As for H and me we are doing very well. We are both doing all we can for each other (not just him for me). Funny, we did the EN sheets. I met all his needs and I had every need on the sheets. I mean funny, ha ha. We did laugh. He said no one else could cope with me as I am so needy and demanding (he was joking - sort of )

Thanks for all the caring thoughts, JL and everyone else. I'll let you know how we're doing when I can. (I'm doing this at work - not meant to be - at home I'm spending time with H LOL)

Kiwi J

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Posted by KiwiJ (Member # 33067) on February 09, 2004 11:18 PMFebruary 09, 2004 11:18 PM:

JL I missed your point entirely. You meant why envy a man who seems to have it all but obviously hasn't if he has to look outside his family for some sort of fulfilment. Am I getting it now?

Also, I've been so busy having conversations with JL that I haven't really addressed how other people are feeling. To BS's let me tell you now:

Don't get hung up on catching your S out on detail. Listen to the overall feelings. My H wanted to know timeframes to put everything into perspective. He didn't want physical details (ie what we did and where we did it) he WAS interested in my feelings, how often we met, that sort of thing.

My H really laid things on the line how he felt OM was using me etc. I don't know if I would recommend this. It worked with me but it could make your S very defensive and come running to the OP's defence. I focus on these negatives and because I'm having NC and no charming words from OM, it works for me. If I end up hating him (which would be sad because we had a long history as teenagers - from when I was 13 to when I was 17 and then on and off as friends till I married H = and in all that time he never pressured me for sex) it won't bother me - as long as it makes me love H more.

Kiwi J

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Posted by Just Learning (Member # 2984) on February 10, 2004 04:37 PMFebruary 10, 2004 04:37 PM:

Yes, you got what I meant. He wasn't doing as well as you seemed to think.

KiwiJ, here is a thought for you concerning the OM. The opposite of love is NOT hate, it is indifference.

You need to reach a point not where you HATE OM, but that you are indifferent to the thought of him. Any thought of him does NOT bring strong feelings, but just memories of when you were FRIENDS not lovers.

Do you see what I mean? As for the details everyone is different, some need them others don't.

It sounds as if you are doing well. When your next breakthrough comes, please post. It will be a difficult time for you as it will require that you forgive yourself having faced what you did to your family. It is not a pleasant time, but you will get through it, and then you two will REALLY be into recovery.

You are doing well, and your H is a special man.

I would make one final comment to you about your children. If you want to help them and your H, tell them what he has done for you, and what you feel about it. I don't think you full appreciate how much that will help your H and your children.

But, I think you will.

Oh! Yes I saw that you had posted to MrsX. Isn't surprising how similar all of this is? I just shocked me when I first came here. But, that is why alot of this stuff works so well so often. Good counseling ie: pro-marriage, and some insights such as Harley offers really do help. So now you know, I don't know much. But, I do remember what I read. And if you read here long you will see the patterns emerge.

God Bless,

JL

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Posted by Stung by a Bee (Member # 30000) on February 10, 2004 06:07 PMFebruary 10, 2004 06:07 PM:

quote:
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I did tell my H that I am sorry I hurt him (and I would never wish to cause that sort of pain to anyone ever again - that the person you are meant to be closest to in the whole world is in the worst pain they've ever been in because of you is unbelievably distressing) but you are right I have never said I'm sorry I did it.
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Yup, sounds just like my WS. I'm praying for the day he'll be able to say that he's sorry he had A.
quote:
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He has said he is sorry that I found the phone messages and letters as "they were not meant for my eyes and ears".
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Yup, again just like my WS. I found all 256 emails they had sent to each other. I had to go throw up when I found them! They professed total love and admiration for each other. Wanted to spend the rest of their lives together, but weren't sure if it was the "right" thing to do.
Talked about how fantastic the sex is, how they totally connect with each other. He continues to say that he connects with her and has never connected with me. I agree that we did't talk about "deep" things, but now I know what he needs. I can do that! I have just always suppressed that because he's judgemental with me. That seems to be changing, but he doesn't seem to be able to connect with me. Are we just too close to end of A?

Don't want to be a thread-jacker, thoughts just poured out. I've started a thread called "trying to move forward" (or something like that). If you want to respond to me there, that's fine. JL, would love to hear from you. I'm feeling lost now.

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Posted by KiwiJ (Member # 33067) on February 27, 2004 02:25 PMFebruary 27, 2004 02:25 PM:

A "bump" and an update.

Since I first posted things have been getting better and better between me and H.

I am sorry JL, I still haven't really shown true remorse, although I sometimes get panic attacks about what I have really done which make me feel I am going to throw up - I guess this is the start. I have told H I love him and that he means everything to me... I wasn't even "seeing" him a year ago and, believe me, this is a HUGE step forward.

The other HUGE step forward is that I am finding that memories of OM are fading fast and when I think of him,it is as though it happened a long time ago to someone else. The pain and longing are gone. It feels so good to wake up in the morning and feel "normal". I know that OM will always be dangerous for me and that is why NC works so well.

H and I have no trouble talking about any of this any more, although he says it is still very raw for him. I can't describe it, life feels so much better and we are so much better together.

I think "seeing" him as the good man, husband and father he has always been is lovely. MrsX's post "New Here" says it all. H is a thousand times the man that OM is (he will never tell his W & he really was quite shallow). Actually H is quite unique, he's a bit quirky (do you use that word in the US?), so well-read, so ethical, so funny - all the things I really admire and had forgotten I admire.

H will probably post here one day - he knows what a huge help you've all been. And I really mean that - I think the MB forum has gone a long way to saving my marriage.

Jenny
Jenny

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Posted by Just Learning (Member # 2984) on February 27, 2004 04:27 PMFebruary 27, 2004 04:27 PM:

Jenny,

You said somethings that really confuse me.
quote:
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I am sorry JL, I still haven't really shown true remorse, although I sometimes get panic attacks about what I have really done which make me feel I am going to throw up - I guess this is the start.
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quote:
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H and I have no trouble talking about any of this any more, although he says it is still very raw for him. I can't describe it, life feels so much better and we are so much better together.
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I have put two statements together so that you might see my confusion. You say you feel no remorse. You say you love your H. Your H states quite clearly he is very "raw". Then you jump to how you feel so much better.

The lasp part seems to support your first statement: you feel no remorse. You don't seem to care what this has done to your H only that he stayed for you. Have you sat down with him and explored why he feels "raw" and what he feels has been lost.

Jenny, I will tell you this now, something WAS LOST in all of this. You may not value it, but I am thinking your H does. Until you understand what was lost, you will probably NOT have remorse because for you it was all fun and games and some inconvenience to your H. But, until you realize what you lost, you really will never fully appreciate what you have.

quote:
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I have told H I love him and that he means everything to me... I wasn't even "seeing" him a year ago and, believe me, this is a HUGE step forward.
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Yes, it is a huge step, but it is one you should have never had to take. It is one he should have never had to endure either. Can you imagine how it would feel to be "invisible" to someone you love, to be ignored? Perhaps you cannot.
quote:
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The other HUGE step forward is that I am finding that memories of OM are fading fast and when I think of him,it is as though it happened a long time ago to someone else. The pain and longing are gone. It feels so good to wake up in the morning and feel "normal". I know that OM will always be dangerous for me and that is why NC works so well.
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This is an excellent step and you are progressing very well. And you are right NC is very important to you. You are doing well.

However, while you are thinking about this, consider how it is to wake each morning and wonder if your spouse is going to run into the someone she cannot resist. How it is to wake up and wonder if she has changed her mind about the marriage or you. You see your H will NEVER wake up "normal" again, with out doubts, without concerns about your love for him. Please consider this.

quote:
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I think "seeing" him as the good man, husband and father he has always been is lovely.
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I am sure he appreciates it and I hope you tell him this regularly.
quote:
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MrsX's post "New Here" says it all. H is a thousand times the man that OM is (he will never tell his W & he really was quite shallow). Actually H is quite unique, he's a bit quirky (do you use that word in the US?), so well-read, so ethical, so funny - all the things I really admire and had forgotten I admire.
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Yes, quirky is often used here. Yes you admire them but do you love HIM? You need to remember to do this, or the things that have been lost forever will haunt him, even if you are not aware of them.

Jenny, I do not wish you pain, but I do wish for you a clearness of sight that you do not possess right now. When you finally "see", I think then you will feel remorse for what you have done and thrown away. It is very deep and subtle but it affects your whole family.

You are doing very well Jenny. I am glad to hear you are progressing in your recovery and that your H has and is surviving it. You are a far luckier woman than you realize. I look forward to hearing from you again, and if your H decides to post ask him to connect the dots for us, so that we know he is married to you.

Keep up the good work.

God Bless,

JL

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Posted by KiwiJ (Member # 33067) on February 27, 2004 06:32 PMFebruary 27, 2004 06:32 PM:

JL, first thing - you know my dad died 3 years ago (seems like only yesterday)and we were very close - he was a very wise and nice man. When I read your posts to me it is like talking to him all over again. So, thank you.

My posts do jump around a bit - I try to be brief - I've sometimes struggled through other people's very long posts

You gave me so much to think about I had to go and put on a load of laundry to have a think It's already Saturday here and an unbelievably wet day.

quote:
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You don't seem to care what this has done to your H only that he stayed for you. Have you sat down with him and explored why he feels "raw" and what he feels has been lost
________________________________________
.

Why can't I feel remorse We had a good talk last night and I told H again that this A had a great deal to with "unfinished business" with oldBF - I then added "at your expense." and cried. He just said "hmmm" and looked very hurt. I then said "foggy speak rears its head again." I really want to feel what he's feeling but I just can't. Part of the non remorse is that because it was oldBF I just don't feel ashamed. Why can't I feel like that - I always hated cheaters, I always valued that we were "us" and didn't have the problems other people had. There is one thing that may have a bearing on this, I am on anti depressants and they could well be masking the reality and the guilt. (which is what they are for of course.)
quote:
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Until you understand what was lost, you will probably NOT have remorse because for you it was all fun and games and some inconvenience to your H. But, until you realize what you lost, you really will never fully appreciate what you have.
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You are right - I seem to have a total mental block when it comes to this. If you knew me, you would know that I am a caring, loyal person who would never intentionally hurt anyone. I also said to H, one of my best qualities is my loyalty, why has this gone. He said "you are not loyal - you haven't been loyal to me."

quote:
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Can you imagine how it would feel to be "invisible" to someone you love, to be ignored? Perhaps you cannot.
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This I can understand. At the time A started, H was in a very deep depression. He cut me off completely. He would go outside (we smoke outside) and sit in the carport on a chair, and smoke and read. I felt I didn't exist. He is very hurt I didn't try to break through his depression as he has always been there for me when I have been very down.

I do tell H every time I have a "good thought" about him.

I do have one other thing that is bothering me. I know the answer to this but am having a bit of trouble with it. H wants me to throw out all photos, and they're not all round the house, they're deep in the bottom of the photo box,(from over 30 years ago) of me and oldBF. I will do this but know I will cry and it will hurt me to do it. Part of me feels they are part of my past and not part of this. I know I must do it though - I'm right aren't I?


Jenny

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Posted by RookKev (Member # 32737) on February 27, 2004 08:09 PMFebruary 27, 2004 08:09 PM:

Hmmm .. fog gone? Not even close. Mine is the perspective of a BS...so, read carefully!

The drugs you are on...hmmm... that seems at least to blare at you that things are still not normal in your head. Why are you on them? What is the depression causes? You must have told your doctor you were feeling something that warranted him to prescribe them, what was that feeling/emotions?

What does your husband need now? He needs to KNOW you love HIM. He can't feel it right now. Everything you do and say and everything he sees plants squarely in his minds eye, you with OM. Do you view your husband as you truly say? My guess is not, I'm sorry. If you can't tie together how seeing a picture of the OM would just shatter his heart the instant he saw it (right now), and in the future, cause extreme pangs to flash back, then I have to say the fog is still very thick. Especially since you view it as you are giving something up! Holy cow, you are giving up something that never should have taken place! Has he given up his old ways that lead to the fall of your marriage? Or his he still clinging to them, bathing in their (whatever word would fit here without being obscene!) insincerity? There are things in my house from OM still...I'm trying so hard to not bring them up, and hope that she will realize that they crucify me when I see them.

If you want to know how he feels right now. Here is my feelings (and thus I'm not responding to them, I know they betray us), "Oh hun, don't worry about those pictures, or that pair of earrings (or all the clothes you bought to please HIM!), they are no big deal, I can deal with them...here, see....AS I JUST BURN THE ENTIRE HOUSE TO THE GROUND!

Really. That is how those are for him, I'm guessing. You say you wish you could feel his pain? Hmmm, even though at times I wish

Jen and JL at their best!

Waiting for part II!

Thanks for sharing!

Kiwi J:

Thanks for that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I'm confident that many can gain valuable insight (and inspiration) by these posts.

Some question(s) for you.
How does reading and going over your own words again effect you today?

What type of emotional response is "inside" you from these past words/feelings?

Is it like its someone else (as you've grown SOOO much since then) or something else all together?

Thanks for the insight.
(I'm looking for some into how my W may be thinking/feeling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Now that its almost 2 years post d-day). Hence the reasons for my asking how your looking back now effects you.

Thanks again for being soo open and honest with us ALL here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I recognize how much COURAGE that must take. I applaud you for it!

Never discount that your helping many here with your willingness to "expose" yourself in this way. It is appreciated! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks guys. Gosh it is long isn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And then I realised I'd cut half of it off.

Reading it again I think "who the heck is that person?" LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And you know it's written in February of this year. What a LONG way H and I have travelled.

Stan, are you serious you want part II. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It goes on and on. There's the telling of OM's w, the near split up in April and then the final wonderful post when the truth and reality come clunking down on my head and the alien takes off forever.

Jen

Jen:

I love to read what the FWWs have to say. Their input is very important for me as it gives me comfort and the tools to understand Myrta. Anything you say is very significant and gives me a lot of hope. Don't stop now!

A Fan

Thank you Jen, for posting your story.

It must have taken a lot of time to go back and find these messages from past months.

Isn't JL something? What a caring guy he is.

And like Stanley said, the BS can learn from us FWW. A combined MB site is best.

I also am looking forward to the rest of your story. I know your story is not over; each day adds more of life's pages!

I have one suggestion, Jen. How about changing the title of this thread so others will know it is YOUR story instead of just a message to me. Something like:
"The recovery of a marriage after an affair."

Thanks again for telling us.
Parts reminded me of Bob's wife. Like not wanting to get rid of pictures and notes, crying because you just didn't really feel sorry for having the affair.

Sincerely, Rachel

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: MakeYourOwnSunshine ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MakeYourOwnSunshine:
<strong>
we thought our husbands would never find out and we thought if they didn't know, they wouldn't be hurt. Is that what you thought also?
Rachel <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess Jen and RAchel- that my story is a bit different. I figured that my H DID know- and didn't much care....Looking back at my delusions I can only just really wince....I can't change the past- luckily I can change the present and the future.

Sad, you and your H are still together, aren't you? (I hope so) You should post YOUR STORY also!

I had edited the note above.. I had said I thought my husband would never find out and I thought if he didn't know, he wouldn't be hurt. Is that what you thought also, Jen?

If only our husbands could understand that it wasn't their fault in any way whatsoever.
You BH listen to me! We were just so 'smitten' during that time in our lives that we couldn't think clearly. We had the feeling of being young again and the girl we were before we were married; we did what we did in complete selfishness! NOT YOUR FAULT AT ALL!
Rachel <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

MYOS, I've changed the title.

Actually, I always wanted my H to find out. It KILLED me, absolutely KILLED me that I was doing something that had such a bearing on his life that he knew nothing about. During the A I went to IC and told the counsellor that seeing my H blissfully unaware was eating me away. Literally, I lost 10kgs and started drinking very heavily.

After the A ended I knew that it was only a matter of time before I told my H. He found out anyway but the guilt and the downright cruelty of him not knowing was driving me towards a breakdown.

I was miserable the whole time I was in the A. It goes against my whole nature and ethical boundaries to be dishonest and when you start compromising your values, your health and relationships with everyone around you suffer.

That's not a 2x4 btw, just the way I see it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jen

We were posting at the same time so I have a mesage above yours, Jen! It is for BH to read especially. I wonder if you felt the same regarding it not being your H fault in any way.

I'm glad you changed the title.

I guess us WW stories, um that is, FWW, are all different. None of our 'affairs' or 'feelings' for OM can ever be just the same.
We each have different relationships with our H. Some want to talk about it, some don't at all, some forgive, some can't; and on and on.

I sure sure didn't want my H to ever find out.
I just wanted to keep living in my fairy tale world. But glad now that he knows or it would have been too easy to continue on the sly!

Rachel

Thanks, MYOS for both posts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sad, I also thought my H probably knew but wasn't going to confront it. But it was a complete and total shock to him.

Also, MYOS, my withdrawal was horrific. It took me all my strength just to put one foot in front of the other every day.

But I don't focus on any of that any more. This is a story of recovery and my H and family are my only focus these days.

I'm still dredging through my old threads trying to put some sort of order to them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

BTW the photos were burned by H and I in a ritual burning one summer night. Gee, it felt good and I didn't cry at all.

Jen