Believer
I'm not even going to attempt to advise you. It's not as if my own choices have been brilliant so all I can say is you need to do what is right for you, what feels ok within you no matter what anyone else thinks.

You'll certainly always have my respect and admiration regardless.

Thanks everyone. I think I will just go back to Idiotville.

WH has not lifted a finger to help me for all of this time, has given me little money. Now when he runs out of money, he is telling me he will help me out. What a bunch of crap.

The only thing in the whole letter than is of any signficance to me would be:

"I'm not going to lie to you and say I don't still care about OW."

He wasted $100,000, ripped your life to shreads, lied beyond belief and now wants you to forgive him...but yet, the OW is still a factor. Why bring her up at all? He may have his head out of his behind but he's still sniffing around.

The last part of the letter told all..he's out of money...but you've kept up his remaining asset
that he can milk, "our" home. He'll help financially if he can. Give me a break.

Believer, you're too fine of a person to settle with someone such as this in your life. You're very wise to not want anything to do with him. It didn't work out with ow so NOW he's interested in coming home. There was no realization that his actions were so wrong until that relationship ended.

Little did he realize that this letter is going to help you more than you realize. He's admitted adultery and committed to helping you financially. If need be, your attorney will be able use this. Good move Believer!

Little did he realize that this letter is going to help you more than you realize. He's admitted adultery and committed to helping you financially. If need be, your attorney will be able use this. Good move Believer!

Good observation, jph!

Great Scott Believer, that is a huge amount of your money he spent. You seem so calm about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> TT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think it is time I move on with mine too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this means: poor me. He is trying to get a reaction from you to guilt you into feeling sorry for him.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but once I left, it was really the beginning of the end. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He made his decision 22 months ago.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm not going to lie to you, and say I don't still care about OW. We did go our own way and left the door open for me to give you back the respect you deserve, by being honest. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She sent him packing to see if he can work it out with you, but it doesn't sound like his heart is in it...after all, he still cares about OW. It sounds like the door is open for him to go back to her when this attempt to squeeze more money snd comfort out of you fails.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm going to start looking for work on Monday, I'm starting to run out of money. If I can help financially in some way, I will. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This doesn't make a lot of sense. How can he offer to give you some money when he hasn't found a job yet? Maybe he is hoping it will appeal to your giving nature and you can help him out while he is looking for work. Then he'd help you out but he hasn't been shown to be a man of his word. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">making repairs to our our home. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That means that he still expects some of the equity it that home to be his.

He says he cares about you but didn't say love. He may still be pining with love for OW.

I am sorry if I can't find much that is positive in this recent letter to you.

You been doing so well now having moved on, I think there isn't lots to hang your hat on with him....no security, nothing to depend on. He seems to still be saying that he isn't ready to fulfill the requirements for reconciliation of your plan B letter.

I know I could be way off on my interpretation..but since you asked...

I was just thinking, we at MB can all pull your WH's letter apart, bit by bit and try to interpret it. It's possible, however, that he might not be the most literate of men and perhaps has found it hard to get his true feelings down on paper.

So, if you really feel you are past caring, why don't you ask him on the phone or in person, line by line what he is trying to say? He can't hurt you anymore by his words because you feel confident you want to move on. But just to clear things up in your head, go through the letter and ask him to clarify. It may be that his fog is lifting. Isn't that what most people here are waiting for?

I'm not making excuses for him at all. But we're all told here that everyone's time frame for recovery is different. Likewise, the length of time it takes for a WS to get out of the fog must vary significantly.

That said, I still think it was strange that this all happened as soon as you found solace in the arms of another. I reckon the jungle drums somehow got a message through to him! Maybe he was upset about you and OW was upset because his being upset meant he still had feelings for you, whereas she thought she'd earned the no. 1 spot in his heart. So she kicked him out. I've got time on my hands tonight so instead of trying to work out my WH, I decided to spare a thought for yours. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> WHATEVER!!!

Beliver,

Sounds like a sad, sad case of "too little, too late."

Assume he's sorry for his stupidity over the last two years. Good for him.

Make sure he doesn't get a penny out of the house. Good for you.

~ Snow

believer, I just don't know what to say about your husband. a lot of disrespectful judgements come to mind!

It is so frustrating. I mean, *you* knew he'd end up like this (regretting his actions and just waiting too damned long)...everyone ELSE knew he'd end up like this! Straight out of the handbook.

Someone posted that they believe you *do* care. I agree with that. Someone posted they believe you're pissed off. I agree with that too. Even if you don't want your H back..there's *something* there.

You are not indifferent--at least it seems that way to me. So even if you're POSITIVE you don't want your husband back...whether for love, moral or religious reasons...what emotions *do* you have? Again, there is *something*. Are you just frustrated? Angry? Hurt? Is there some part of you that would consider taking your husband back (for whatever reason...love, the history...God..whatever) if he just shut up and started showing the correct actions? Is part of you just wanting to see him grovel at your feet so you can spurn him the way he spurned you? I'm not saying that this is what I see--please understand that. I'm just asking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am not sure I could resist my husband's overtures if he were behaving in the same way, even if I had lost most of my intimate love for him. But that is hard to say because I have not been doing this as long as you have. Yes, his affair was almost two years ago, but I didn't know then what I know now.

You really are such a strong woman and from the outside looking in, I could see you choosing several different paths. God has given you license to end your marriage. You have given yourself license to end your marriage. That is not your only option though. I guess that I think the most important thing to remember is that you have gained the strength to stand by your convictions and be proud of your choices. What would make you happy and content here? (not asking you to answer me..just that you should ask yourself).

Post the letter back to him, with a note:

Dear WH,
Please rewrite this without the cr@p and this time please tell me what the hell you are talking about!
Love, Believer

It would be nice if you could continue to correspond with him in an honest way, this might help you answer some questions and learn from this experience.

Just MVHO

Lots of love

Here s my view from the benefit of hindsight.

When things fall apart with OW, I think it is typical for these men to want to run back to the security of having the wife there for whatever reason, to stroke their ego, to lick their wounds, to live in the past. But it in no way means he has learned anything or wants to work on recovering the relationship or is now willing to change and grow. In fact it means he hasn't. See how he wants to keep some contact with OW and you... he has fond memories of the 2 women supporting him and would like to go back to that magical time...gag..

My XH came back, saying all the right things for about 1 month, then he was back in communication with OW and looking for another OW.and I was back in termoil and drama and spying and stress. My biggest regret is that I did not divorce him when he first left, when it was more finacially adventages, and before I went through another 2 years of trauma and stress.

Beleiver, he has not changed, he may not be capable of it. I hope you can look objectively at your situation and do what is best for you. The one thing that has helped me move on is that I am financilly OK, I can keep the house and live on my own, I don't have to be bitter about that on top of everything else. It looks to me like you have 50,000 that can be applied to your house equity. Don't let that go.

If I am wrong and he truely has changed and grown, he will set up a plan and start behaving like a man committed to it, and it will be clear. But there is nothing clear about this letter is there?

PS, there is a great life after divorce, alone or maybe in a healtier relationship.... when I look back now at all I put up with from my X, I am sorry and sad I let myself stay immeshed for so long in such an unhealthy dynamic. Save yourself!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lora:
<strong> Here s my view from the benefit of hindsight.

When things fall apart with OW, I think it is typical for these men to want to run back to the security of having the wife there for whatever reason, to stroke their ego, to lick their wounds, to live in the past. But it in no way means he has learned anything or wants to work on recovering the relationship or is now willing to change and grow. In fact it means he hasn't. See how he wants to keep some contact with OW and you... he has fond memories of the 2 women supporting him and would like to go back to that magical time...gag..

My XH came back, saying all the right things for about 1 month, then he was back in communication with OW and looking for another OW.and I was back in termoil and drama and spying and stress. My biggest regret is that I did not divorce him when he first left, when it was more finacially adventages, and before I went through another 2 years of trauma and stress.

Beleiver, he has not changed, he may not be capable of it. I hope you can look objectively at your situation and do what is best for you. The one thing that has helped me move on is that I am financilly OK, I can keep the house and live on my own, I don't have to be bitter about that on top of everything else. It looks to me like you have 50,000 that can be applied to your house equity. Don't let that go.

If I am wrong and he truely has changed and grown, he will set up a plan and start behaving like a man committed to it, and it will be clear. But there is nothing clear about this letter is there?

PS, there is a great life after divorce, alone or maybe in a healtier relationship.... when I look back now at all I put up with from my X, I am sorry and sad I let myself stay immeshed for so long in such an unhealthy dynamic. Save yourself! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lora, I could not have expressed these sentiments any better myslelf. Tragically, many people suffer just like you did (unecessarily) becasue of codependence and low self esteem in a trying to "recover" a marriage that should not be "recovered". I think it ias hard for some to see this as they are so caught up in the emotions and devestation that they forget what it is they are really "saving". I thank you for your post, it echoes my feelings. I am happy that you are in a better place right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You folks are exactly right. Had to work today, and thought about it - WH's letter says NOTHING.

I guess what bothers me is I never heard the truth about anything from WH. He lied and denied from D-day on. But I guess it really doesn't matter, she can have him.

SUGGESTED DRAFT LETTER:

Dear WH,

It's good that you still have feelings for OW. I am sure she will help you financially as you find a job, and get a new start on your life.

Thank you for your offer to help financially. As you are aware, about $100K of our marital assets were spent since you moved out. Receiving my share of that back would sure help as I try to renovate my house!

Please let me know the name of your attorney, so we can work out the details.

Love, BW

believer,

Listen to Lora; she knows what's she's talking about. And listen to your gut, and to that little gagging tickle in the back of your throat when you read his self-serving, self-pitying, fence sitting letter.

Lora, you worked so hard to save your marriage. I read all the pain and agony in your posts back in the days. You gained a lot of wisdom and you are generously sharing it with believer.

My dear Believer,

Here's my take on the WS' letter. IMHO, it is still from a WS who is trying to take a stroll in a pair of Xws' shoes. He is still flip floppin'.

Dear WS,

Thanks for the letter. It is certainly much easier to read your words than hear the pain.

What you write does tend to confuse though. I mean, you miss the OW but left the door open for what? You claim to be near broke, will be looking for a job but will help out if needed, with what?

I realize that I can't live in a house where the door is kept open. I don't sleep well at night with drafts from a witch blowin in and out of my life. Nope, that's not for me. Besides the stench of the A has lessened in my life and you are right about my moving on. It took a long time to wash out that smell. My home is clean and comfy. The children are adapting to a changed but safer lifestyle.

Also I use a calculator to keep my life in balance. Emotionally, mentally and finacially this calculator prevents me from overdrawing an account that would leave me vulnerable and in an NSF state. I hope you get one soon.

I really have no clue what you mean by help. If you choose to provide a clarification, let me know.

Luv,
B.

Of course Believer if a part of you is curious what he really means, you could leave these communications as is. Putting it back in his lap and letting him know you have ID'd his babble w/b a good thing.

Just me and my opinion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hugz,
L.

Thanks for the kind words Lemon and Belle... I like to think I learned something as a reward for slogging through all that crap.

Beleiver, I understand about wanting some type of closure and answers and for continuing to shout the question WHY? But I never got it and I doubt that you will either.. their denial is too deep, their introspection is not there, you will have to move on without it and accept that is the way it has to be.

Maybe that is why I still lurk, years later, still trying to be able to say I am completely over it...

Lora -

You are right. There is nothing that my WH could do to make everything okay. I am so done with him. He is just continuing to do what he does best.

Believer, can I have your husband's e-mail address? If I can, please e-mail it to me at the address in my signature.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> Here's the latest, what does it mean?

Believer -
I'm at another crossroad, but it's time to confront what is going on and how we feel. I don't know how your really feel because we don't talk and I know that is my fault. You tell me that it is best that I write you, because we don't seem to say anything of much importance or get anything resolved when we talk. I guess that's the truth.
You tell me everything is good with you, what does that mean? I know you have moved on with your life. I think it is time I move on with mine too. I know I am the one who has caused all this pain, I am truly sorry. There were many times I just wanted things to be the way they used to be between us, but once I left, it was really the beginning of the end. You really do deserve much better than this or me, please forgive me.
I'm not going to lie to you, and say I don't still care about OW. We did go our own way and left the door open for me to give you back the respect you deserve, by being honest.
I'm going to start looking for work on Monday, I'm starting to run out of money. If I can help financially in some way, I will. You've put a lot of resources yourself keeping the roof up, making repairs to our home.
I deserve whatever happens to me, it would be consequences for my actions. I am just so very sorry for hurting you. I do care about you. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did not read any other responses... only your first post...

Your question was , "What does it mean?"

My understanding of this letter... it means absolutely ~zero~.

There is no "meat" in the letter.

Very wishy-washy.

No definite plan.

More of the same.

Deja moo... same old bull.

Pep