Hi all! I have been around here off and on for awhile for my own personal heartache, but generally on the Recovery side cause... Thank God... we are recovering. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My issue is this, I have a best friend (BF-not boyfriend!) that I have loved like my sister for more than 17 years. She is a true soulmate and we have been through so much together. I love her dearly but am at my wits end with her.

This time last year, when I was coming off my own roller coaster ride here at home she confided that she had been having an A. These pieces came out slowly over time, partly cause she admitted more than once to feeling like a heel talking about her A knowing what I just went through, but also cause I think she was at first very ashamed. Unfortunately that shame has passed! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Very long story short, she is having an EA turned PA with her BIL (her husband's sister's husband). She has 2 kids and been married 10+ yrs, they have 3 kids and married about as long. Neither M has been happy for awhile, but that is not the point! I love her and I see her headed for disaster and feel helpless to stop her.

She was raped by her father more than once. He got away with it cause the family counselor dismissed it as sleep-walking due to stress. Her Dad is a minister and loves to quote scripture... (can you see the dysfunctional self perceptions yet?!) Her first consensual sexual relationship was with a HS boyfriend who had dumped her, than she drove up to his college to win him back and when he told her he was not going to get back together and she slept with him anyway. She came to my place that evening and cried all night. She married a man who is nice enough, tries to provide well but is emotionally unavailable, frequently absent and has never made her really happy. They had tried MC several times before all this A ever got started.

Talking to her yesterday... it is all FOG! She loves him, he loves her, her M is over and she is leaving her H as soon as she can work it out, she feels like she is cheating on OM when with H. Ugh! This is so anti-her and then again so much like her. She has always been a doormat, I just never thought she'd be so blind. HELP me to help her, help me find the words, the strength, the right nerve. I know what is gonna hit the fan when the light of day is shed... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I love her and I see her headed for disaster and feel helpless to stop her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She's not headed for it....

I am sure that you have verbally expressed your disapproval to your BF. Have you suggested IC and MC to her?

This is really a case for a professional with all the abuse issues that she has. If talking does not work and she is still fog bound then I would drop her from your list of friends. She needs a shock to her system to kick her out of the fog. And if you can tell her H witout getting caught I would do that too. This thing needs to be stopped before MORE DAMAGE is done. Pregnancy just being one potential pitfall. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I do not envy your position. You are looking at the potential demise of 2 famlies with 5 children that you know will never be the same if this is not reconciled. But I don't need to explain that to you by the looks of your sig.

Remember this is JMHO. You might try calling out one of the experts in your subject line. Try ORCHID, JL , WAT , or Star*fish.

Good Luck and Take Care,

C.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Momma'sSad:
<strong>She was raped by her father more than once. He got away with it cause the family counselor dismissed it as sleep-walking due to stress.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OMG that's about the lamest, stupidest "excuse" I have ever heard for rape.

This is very terrible. I can imagine this woman to be a real candidate for an A, or for being abused by men. She'll do those things to confirm to herself see? I'm worthless. She needs help - lots of it.

This A should stop right now. Exposing the A will end it surely, as I doubt very much her BIL will really leave his wife and children. Unfortunately, that will explode in her face, as family is concerned and it's very likely her H and his sister will join forces, both being the BS in this silly A.

Or you don't speak up and the A will undermine your GF's self-respect more and more. And the poison of this A will creep deeper and deeper into these two families.

What a terrible choice to make.
You could try making it clear to her that she is willingly hurting others by "having it her way". Tell her about your pain. That actually stopped the A a friend of mine was having - when he saw how much pain it caused me finding out about it, he ended his A. The OW in his case actually also had suffered from the same type of abuse as a child.

Tell her she needs to do things the proper way.
a) Learn to respect yourself - go to counseling, work out those childhood traumas.
b) Try to fix the M.
c) If that's impossible - get a D.
d) Live alone and get your act together again.
e) No dating for some time.
f) When dating again, be more realistic about "love" and "lust".

Good luck to you my dear.
I'm afraid this story will have no happy ending unless the H and the SIL involved are good, forgiving, strong people who will work hard to recover from this crisis.

Momma,

I know this is so obvious that it really doesn't need to be said, but my gosh betraying your own sister? That in itself would kill me.

I can usually find compassion for OW's, but my gosh your own sister. I can't even begin to understand how she can rationalize this.

I feel so bad for you to be in this and for the families involved. What devestation!

Actually Weaver, it is her SIL, but trust me there is alot of gilt involved. I have tried to point out to her that he is totally using her (and she is full party to it). He has the best of it all, two pretty women, his house, kids, life, etc. She goes out of her way to keep their kids and help them out. I know part of it is guilt about her and the other is the desire to see him again.

I have thought more than once about outing the affair, but I am not sure if I can be the one to do this. She is my best friend, and I am not sure if I can betray her trust that way. As much as I want this to end "before it is too late" I also feel that it'll come back to haunt me. I see her getting deeper into the fog and alot more sloppy and brazen. trust me, it'll be out soon,if for no other reason that in her state of mind she really thinks this is what she wants.

I know she has pulled back from me some cause she knows I disapprove. I have told her that she needs to leave one relationship before she even thinks about creating another. I can see that she and her H were headed for D. She was a SAHM up til this year and is finally working again (a dead end job even though she has a college degree, never went to grad school and finish cause her H didn't want to move). I know that she figured she would start working again one day and they would D. The problem is I believe she thinks this is her way out, but it is a dead end. I know this family, she has alot to lose. Those parents are going to do what any parent would do, they are going to side for their son and daughter, and the two of them are gonna be on the outside wonder what happened. I know in the light of day this is not what she needs either. Reality is this OM is only making her happy cause the fantasy and excitement of it all. He is also selfish, can be condescending, and lets face it, he lacks alot of character here too! This is not the "love of her life" that she is looking for. UGHH!!

Oh boy!

I really don't know how I would handle. I know what is ethical, and I know what is fair to the people being betrayed. But I am loyal almost to a fault where my girlfriends and sisters are concerned.

Loyalty on one hand, ethics on the other.

MB says exposure is the way to get her out of this mess. And ethics says you have a responsibilty as a human being to let the others know they are being stabbed in the back.

Loyalty also says you do what is necessary to protect your friends from themselves which would be also to expose.

Yuck. I am sorry for you, no help from me, I know.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Momma'sSad:
<strong> I am not sure if I can be the one to do this. She is my best friend, and I am not sure if I can betray her trust that way.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know if I can help with advice... but maybe some insight.

Firstly...

Beware. Fog happens when it becomes too uncomfortable to face reality. It's how we justify things we know are wrong. It's tricky. It's insidious. It comes clothed in noble terms and pretends to be the Truth.

I approached OP as my Wife's affair reached a crucial point. I asked her to back away, that my family was being threatened. OP's response; "I promised your Wife I wouldn't walk away from her."

And there was a promise made. But at what point did that promise become more important than a marriage? Than the life and future of a family? Than the life and future and general wellfare of two children???

I dunno.

I can see myself making a promise like that? But I also have a line at which I have to apologize and break that promise because my sense of right and wrong demands it. And hopefully be careful of what promises I make in the future.

Anyway, the point is,(and I bet yer starting to wonder if I even have one) it seems like you are facing a similar kind of choice. And you are feeling the emotional impact of two profound paradigms waging war within you.

On one hand, your sense of Right and Wrong.

On the other, a breaking of a promise... a betrayal.

Not comfy. You have to find your line and be true to it. (Since this is so generic a statement, it is excempt from being labeled as 'advice')

Also, I have this to offer as experience:

Five years ago, when I had my affair, I eventually confessed to my best friend. I had to speak to someone about it, because the whole affair thing was tearing me apart. I was very surprised when, instead of being a good ear or offering me good advice, he was upset with me for putting him in that position. Zero sympathy.

"You better tell her before I do," is what he basically said.

That's what I call Integrity.

I recognized it then as such and it played a significant role in hastening the demise of my daliance.

Anyhoo, that was a heck of a ramble.

Hoped it helped.

dewt

"You better tell her before I do," is what he basically said.

And that is what I call a friend!

Unfortunately after Mamma has been her confidante for this long, the lines become very confused and entwined.

It's a tough one, but Dewt is probably right. Momma you tell her to tell before you do. That really is your only choice.

What a tough situation! Maybe this approach would help. I was involved in a relationship where the person was verbally abusive. (nothing to do with marriage-infidelity). Anyhow, I would go to my friend and talk about it on an ongoing basis. Finally one day she said to me "You know I care about you and don't want to see you hurt. But I can't continue to listen to you talking about someone whose not treating you right." She said that she would be happy to talk about anything else with me, but couldn't "support" the situation by continuing to listen to something that she didn't agree with, and that hurt me. That hit me right between the eyes. After getting over the initial ego hurt, I realized how much she did care and that I needed to start caring about myself, too. Perhaps in your situation you could tell your friend something to the effect of "You know you're my best friend and I love you dearly. I don't want to see you hurt. You know that I think the choices you have been making aren't good for you, and could hurt you alot in the long run. I feel awkward knowing this information. I can't do anything to fix it or make you stop, and it puts me in a bad place with family and friends. I'm going to ask you to not discuss it anymore with me. I still love you and will talk about anything else with you, but I don't want to hear anything more about this relationship, as long as you choose to continue with it." Maybe it would back fire and leave her with no support,,but maybe your listening takes the edge off just enough to soften her consequences, and lessen the need for her to make changes. Just a thought....

Hard place to be.

I have learned that sexual abuse really does change how a person views family. Before we were married my wife on 2 occasions slept with her sisters boyfriends. She said she didnt betray her sister, it was just sex.

The family bonds get all messed up. They quite often marry people who are emotionaly unavailable, get involved with MOP, have affairs. Set their own relationships up for failure even without having an A.

You are dealing with a totally different beast here. I know exposure is important, and it is the right thing to do. But be prepared, you expose she will view you as betraying her and victims of abuse hold that a LONG time. Even if they know it was right, it wont be right for YOU to do it because you are her best friend. She feels safe with you. Exposure will destroy that safety net.

I honestly think if I were in your place I would work on getting her to leave the A. I would hold off on exposure. Flame me all you want, but she is going to need someone to fall back onto. Once the A is over, try and get her into IC even before MC. The abuse issues are more important. She wont have a healty relationship till she deals with that.

She feels safe with you, she has proven that by disclosing the abuse and A to you. If she does what she should she will need that feeling with someone, and more then likely it wont be her husband for a while.

Thanks John, that actually helped alot. I know that the "right" thing to do would be to out her and let the chips fall where they may. I also know her, I know that I am really the only person on this planet that knows what I do and have this connection to her that I do. There are some very tight and blurry lines here and I am not sure that I am able to be the one to do this. Will it serve the greater good, maybe, but then again I have always been the rock, the strong one, the one who provides her backbone and a kick in the butt when she needed it (and I am trying here, I really am). I am not sure that her feeling totally betrayed by everyone, including me, would do nothing more than to reinforce her sense of worthlessness when the smoke clears.

I am trying to find ways of encouraging disclosure, cause at this point there is no reason for her to want to quit, trust me, the FOG is very thick! Either that, or find a backdoor for others to see what is going on. Quite honsetly, it is getting bad enough that they are bound to be found out very soon, her H is thick, but he is not stupid. Her IL can't be that clueless! Geesh, they go on family events all the time! I will try adn talk to her again, but I can tell you right now the fog talk is in full force and she does not want to hear what I have to say about giving up "the only man I ever really loved". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Hey, why not just be brutally honest with her?

Tell her how strongly you feel about what she is doing and part of that is because you care for her.

J