WH keeps talking about hurting himself. I talked to him this weekend and he told me about a time last week and last night he called in the same mood. I tried to talk to him no use. He was on the Nobody loves me, I'm a bad husband, father, person kick. Drunk and down. I told him I would stop talking to him and leave him alone so he could live his life and be at peace. He told me if I stopped talking to him, he would kill himself. I was trying to call him back but he lives with her and I can only call when shes at work. I got a good morning and I love you this morning, and one hang up when I was away from the cell phone. I feel like I have to stick it out. If anything happened to him I'd never be able to live with myself and then again I am so ready to dump plan A, but it's only been four days. Help I'm losing any perpective. Talk to me.

Hmmmm. Let him know he should talk to a doctor and get some anti-depressants.

Stay in Plan A. It is difficult, but necessary.

Hi tawny,

Suicide should always be taken seriously... if you really feel that your H is in danger, call someone and get him some help.

Now, having said that and reading that your H is still living with the OW, it sounds like he may just be trying to manipulate you in order continue his cake eating...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If anything happened to him I'd never be able to live with myself and then again I am so ready to dump plan A, but it's only been four days. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">tawny, Your H is responsible for his own actions... he has made choices in his life and now he's having to deal with some of the consequences of his own choices...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Just so I correctly understand your situation: YOur WH left you and lives with the OW and yet calls you telling you he will kill himself yet you can only talk to him when his OW is not home? You want to "stick it out" becasue you will feel guilty if he does something to himself? Am I correct on all of this? I know beliver above is a big plan A advocate and her answer for every problem is usually to just CONTINE PLAN A (it is even in her byline), but have you really looked at how co-dependant this behavior is? Would any rational human being really tell you it is healthy for you to be doing what you are doing? Wow, I thought I had heard it all before this. I hope you find peace in whatever it is you want. Good Lord. Good luck <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Here's a tip...

Guilt is something you should experience when you have purposely inflicted harm onto someone else.

To say you will feel guilty if you do not completely bend your life into a pretzel so your emotionally abusive husband will not harm himself as he is screwing another woman ...

well... I think that guilt of which you speak is misplaced, and is not authentic.

What wrong doing will you be guilty of?

If your husband makes an independant decision to harm himself ... how are you guilty? Are you really THAT powerful ? I highly doubt it.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> Here's a tip...

Guilt is something you should experience when you have purposely inflicted harm onto someone else.

To say you will feel guilty if you do not completely bend your life into a pretzel so your emotionally abusive husband will not harm himself as he is screwing another woman ...

well... I think that guilt of which you speak is misplaced, and is not authentic.

What wrong doing will you be guilty of?

If your husband makes an independant decision to harm himself ... how are you guilty? Are you really THAT powerful ? I highly doubt it.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep:

NIce post. I think you stated the obvious very well. You have a flair for the written word.

Tawny,

Threatening to harm oneself is a control method. He's keeping you on the line with this.

Should you be concerned? Of course, how could you not be? But next time ask him if he has planned how he'll carry that out. If he speaks in generalities, he probably isn't really planning to attempt suicide.

Urge him to see his doctor to see if anti-depressants would be helpful. Then consider your own emotional welfare as well. Plan A is to be used for a limited amount of time in order to bring down the affair. Plan B is to protect the last vestiges of love you have for your H. Only you know where you fit in right now.

Hugs to you. I know this is tough.

~ Snow

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:

Stay in Plan A. It is difficult, but necessary. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A does not require the BS to blithely accept pseudo suicide threats when done as a cake-eating technique.

Wrong-o!

Meeting the EN of the WS while in Plan A does not require enabling of the affair.

LEMONMAN ... no wonder you have such a poor regard for Plan A ... it is done improperly much of the time. Believe me... this is NOT Plan A... yuck!

Pep

<small>[ November 07, 2004, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:

Stay in Plan A. It is difficult, but necessary. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A does not require the BS to blithely accept pseudo suicide threats when done as a cake-eating technique.

Wrong-o!

Meeting the EN of the WS while in Plan A does not require enabling of the affair.

LEMONMAN ... no wonder you have such a poor regard for Plan A ... it is done improperly much of the time. Believe me... this is NOT Plan A... yuck!

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep:

Thanks for validating this to me. I guess I just wish others would see this when they are doing it. I went to Borders this weekend (NO CALL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and got some coffee and read Surviving the affair cover to cover, and really read Plan A. It is my opinion (for what that is worth) that few posters here "truly" plan A by Harely's methods. I am not saying that this is right or wrong, people have to do what they have to do. Just my observation ( and I readily provide a disclaimer that this may be skewed). I think what is sad is that people are sometimes "supported" in this behavior by well intentioned posters. Ugghh. To each his own. One thing that I have learned from all of this $hit, is that people need to take 100% accountability for their happiness and sorrow. They let what happens to them happen when they accept this type of behavior. I used to just "feel sorry" for people but I have kind of chanegd my slant on this. (I don't want people to think I have no compassion or sorrow for them...I do) but I realize that people are ultimatley respobsible for what they tolerate and accept.........sorry for getting of on a tangent.

The concept I hate aout "plan A" is the deception itself - to ACT like everything's fine - To ACT like your life is wonderful - To ACT like you are happy ... This is a marriage?

I ended up an absolute DOORMAT to my H's affair and he walked all over me. This Man I married who had honored both me and our marriage for 20 years WALKED ALL OVER ME, and took every apology I made for not meeting his ENs as leverage to blame me for why he ever had an affair.

I feel vey abused. I KNOW that was FOG - him justifying what he had done, but it still hust tremendously. Although he's beginning to see the romifications of his whole choices, he still takes heart in blaming me.

I;m not going to CONTROL the situation this time. Until he asks me, I'm not going to take over.My 'I don't want to deal with it' H is going to have to deal with it.

I took a psuedo Plan B for 4 days last week, and never felt so at peace. I got to have someone else clean up after me (like OW had for 6+months) and I read. No TV. It was great. But I truly missed H. Why, I have yet to fathom, after what he's put me thru these last 2 months. I don't miss is "status quo". I will not settle for what we 'had' ever again.

H read Marriage Rcovery book today - big move on his part. Maybe there is hope.....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by restarting:
[QB] The concept I hate aout "plan A" is the deception itself - to ACT like everything's fine - To ACT like your life is wonderful - To ACT like you are happy ... This is a marriage?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You obviously do NOT understand plan A... there is no "act like everything is fine' in Plan A.

Plan A is being your best self and your most attractive self while EXPOSING the affair to all important persons.

Family
friends
Employers
OP's spouse

Plan A shines a light on the affair via exposure

as.... the betrayed spouse pulls him/her self to a standing up position .... a position of integrity and strength .... and saying "I am a wonderful spouse. Your affair is wrong and it hurts me."

Plan A is being the spouse that is attractive while exposing the affair in all it's ugly glory.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
It is my opinion (for what that is worth) that few posters here "truly" plan A by Harely's methods.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And Plan A is VERY time limited... Plan A should be cut off with a sudden complete Plan B within a few short months if the A does not stop... 3 at the most if the BS was especially careless in the M pre D-Day. This is why Believer's M is in such a sorry state... too long Plan A and no Plan B .... their relationship petered out into a big muddle ... there was really NO PLAN followed by Harley's guidelines.

Pep

Ok, Pep then please answer a few questions. When the WS CONTINUES to see the OP, according to Plan A, we are supposed to do what about this???????? ANy rational human being is devestated by this, and according to you, the BS should not let these feelings be known to the WS. Yes, I know that you are gonna come back and say, well you just tell them that "this affair hurts me". Well, what does the BS do with their rage and hurt and extreme devestation. What does the BS do when the affiars just continue and the WS continues to lie, and create financial ruin. Don't just say continue to Plan A or start Plan B. PLease tell me CONCRETELY what s BS does when the WS still is cheating, and the affair is exposed and yet the BS has been in Plan A for 2 weeks. What do they do with their feelings. I want to know what you tell someone to do when their Ws continues to see the OP and not see or call their kids, or even pay their bills. Everyine here talks about PLan A is talked about in such generic terms around here and I hate that. I guess it doesn't really matter, I will never get it. But that is ok. I am learning.

LM~
Are you thinking about plan A'ing your WW? Are you wanting to make things work with her? OR are you just wondering?
KMEJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> LM~
Are you thinking about plan A'ing your WW? Are you wanting to make things work with her? OR are you just wondering?
KMEJ </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No WAY !!!!! I am way past that stage. I am just curious as to what pep has to say. She has a lot of wisdom and I am trying to learn more about what drives people to do what they do (with respect to Plan A).

Lemonman, I reckon that on discovery of A, a very natural reaction is to claim back what 'is yours'. I would have believed that if my WH had cheated, I would have just booted him out. I didn't. I cried a lot, thought a lot and decided that I wanted my husband and my kids deserved their dad. I looked back to when I felt we had been a worthy couple and remembered how good it had felt. So I did the nice thing without even knowing MB existed. I humbled him. He sobbed, he asked me why I was being so nice blah blah.

But from that moment on, I felt I was pulling our M along on my own. He never once asked how I was, never once suggested we go out alone, never tried to kiss, cuddle or anything (!). Maybe if he had put just a little bit of effort in, I would have dragged my heels like so many others here. No real surprise to find out he was still in contact and I just thought no. Enough. DD was Feb and we have now just separated. I feel fine. Almost a sense of relief but here's the thing. IF he turned up and begged for a second chance (call me bigheaded but I'm sure it will come) I don't think I want him. He now makes me feel uncomfortable, anxious, unloved, maybe even unworthy. There is a terrible sense of failure connected with this. I must have done something bad that pissed him off so he decided it was ok to have sex with another woman. I can truly understand how people go to pieces over this but thank God for my father's genes. I am one of those people who really really enjoy life. I love my family, my friends, the blue sky, my little dog, the wonderful view from my road. I will not let him ( a man who really struggles with his own self-esteem) make me question who I am and what I do. If I had got a bigger share of my mum genes, I may now be on anti-depressants and be feeling so low and uncomfortable in my own skin that each day would be a struggle.

So, in a nutshell (NOT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) we are all different. I just can't find a place for my WH in my heart because he doesn't really want to be there. I don't know why but I'm not going to beat myself up over it. He has terrible health problems and in a couple of years or so will end up on dialysis (focal glomerosclerosis - LM you're a doctor). I would have nursed and cared for him when the time came. I saw it as my duty - for better or worse - but now it can be HER problem. Do you know, I can't remember what this was about. Hope it's got some relevance. TT