I'm just wondering, how long it usually takes for the WS to really mean it when they say they will have NC with OP. I know each situation is different, but I am 6 weeks in and still no effort on my WW's part to commit herself to the M. She says she is afraid that I will revert back to my old ways once things settle down a bit. I can only tell her that this time I realize what I stand to lose and don't want to lose her. I have made MUCH more effort that I ever have in the past. She still thinks I will relapse. She tells me that she doesn't want to break up the family, that she wants our M to work out, but yet won't commit herselft to me and our M.

She is going to her mom's this week to have a few days to herself, and we plan on listing things we want from each other and our M. I only hope she really wants this M. She tells me that she has no plans with the OM should we not work out. If that were the case wouldn't she want to commit herself to me full time?

MIF?

For me it took one day-when OM kept vacillating between me and his former girlfriend. He kept dropping his ex girlfriends name here and there and saying how much he missed her and then he would tell me to come over and we would get together.

Here I was getting jealous over something I shouldn't be jealous over and that made me realize how stupid and crazy I was. I was jealous of a man that wasn't even mine to begin with. I as wasting precious time going crazy over something I couldn't change and taking precious time and energy away from my own family. My family needs my attention too and they deserve it.

My husband still doesn't know yet. But I intend to tell him as soon as OM moves away of our complex.

For others, I don't know and it is sad because by the time they realize it it might be too late and they have lost the most important things in their life. I want to die with as little regrets as possible and i don't think I could live with myself if I truly screwed my kids' childhood by my own selfishness.

I wish my wife felt the way you do. My wife screwed up and I am not going to put up with her betrayal any longer. I am filing tommorow.

Misn'tF

I have seen what divorce has done to my childhood and that is why I am willing to avoid it all costs.

You both are really young. I know that if my husband was younger I am not sure if we would have made it longer than we have. He is 58 years old and I am 32 years old. Three kids is a lot for a young couple.

Sometimes I wonder if us WSes feel so bad and ashamed about our actions that we get into this downward spiral and continue going downhill and do the very thing that will sabotage the relationship. I know in the past when I have done something wrong in a relationship I would go and mess it up even more and do the very thing I know that would hurt the relationship. I don't know if it was because of low self esteem or that I felt I wasn't deserving the relationship or that it was a horrible addictive habit. I just don't know. Maybe I am sadist but I would ruin a perfectly good thing for me. I think it boils right down to self esteem. That I am not worthy of something good and that I can't work it to make it better because I would think that I would fail. I am a perfectionist and failure is very painful for me. But if I am a failure than I have to be a perfect failure. Does that make sense?

Do you see this in your wife?
I dont know very many people who feel proud of themselves for cheating on their spouse. It is shameful. I feel ashamed that I couldn't get what I wanted from my spouse and it makes me feel less of a person because my husband didn't make me feel deserving by not meeting my needs. I feel that that I haven't been good enough wife, mother whatever and that is why he hasn't tried to meet my needs. So the shame is double fold. I also feel ashamed for having those needs too. Like I am some freak or something or overly demanding.
In the end I think all of it is just not being happy with myself and who I am because if I were then I would feel like my husband wasn't meeting my needs. Perhaps I need to learn to appreciate what I do have.

Anyways I know this is long and maybe provide a different perspective on your situation. Divorce can be so final.

I really don't know what I see in my W. I mean she can look me straight in the eyes and lie to my face without wavering a bit. I have bent over backward this past 7 weeks to make the changes in me to make this marraige work and all she has done is repeatedly stab me in the heart. I can't take any more. I am deeply hurt for my children, it will destroy them I am sure of it. One of our daughters will absolutley be devastated. She is already struggling in school and she has picked up on the tension around the house. I can only imagine how she will be as a result of this.

Surprisingly I am not too depressed over this. I think I realize it is the best thing to do for me at this point. I deserve to be treated better than my WW is treating me. Of course maybe my anger is overiding my depression at thie point.

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 06:02 AM: Message edited by: marriage isn't forever ]</small>

MIF--I can't speak for other WS's and FWS's, but in my case, when D-day occurred, I was given a choice--end it with OM or end my marriage. That was it. No back and forth, no time to think it over, no time to debate pros and cons. Make a decision then and there. Of course, I chose my marriage. Best decision I could have ever made.

I'm sorry your WW won't get on board and make her decision. I realize how frustrating that it.

{{{{MIF}}}} keep posting here to vent the frustrations. Keep plan A'ing as much as possible (when your WW will allow you).

That's what I should have done. Instead, I gave her a little bit of my trust and she ran with it. I should have gave her an ultimatum from the get go.

Ultimatums don't always work - i'm dealing w/ WH 6 wks post d-day still seeing OW - doesn't know what he wants to do - loves me but afraid to try again w/ us for fear we'll go back into the same rut -- his current mantra is that if forced to decide now our marriage is over -- I, however, am not there yet -- though I'm taking steps to separate from him, the thought of filing for divorce really freaks both of us out -- he told me the other night that he really feels like in the back of his head, we'll end up back together but he needs to sort out issues of his own (along w/ not dating anymore!!) It's absurd really, sometimes I have to laugh at the situation and sometimes I just want to kick myself for not being able to just walk away... but I have to do what feels right for me and severing myself completely from him just doesn't feel right -- so I try to take it a day at a time - talk to people for support so I don't explode and take the baby steps I need to take to feel like I'm moving forward on my own...

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: stillprocessing ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillprocessing:
<strong> Ultimatums don't always work - i'm dealing w/ WH 6 wks post d-day still seeing OW - doesn't know what he wants to do - loves me but afraid to try again w/ us for fear we'll go back into the same rut -- his current mantra is that if forced to decide now our marriage is over -- I, however, am not there yet -- though I'm taking steps to separate from him, the thought of filing for divorce really freaks both of us out -- he told me the other night that he really feels like in the back of his head, we'll end up back together but he needs to sort out issues of his own (along w/ not dating anymore!!) It's absurd really, sometimes I have to laugh at the situation and sometimes I just want to kick myself for not being able to just walk away... but I have to do what feels right for me and severing myself completely from him just doesn't feel right -- so I try to take it a day at a time - talk to people for support so I don't explode and take the baby steps I need to take to feel like I'm moving forward on my own... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You sound like you are in my situation except I am 7 weeks post DDay. A week ago I wasn't ready to give up. I was sitting in my driveway with my .40 pressed to my head thinking I couldn't go on without her. What a difference a week makes. Now, I am determined that I am better off without her and am getting the ball rollin'.

As far as your WH he sounds exactly like my WW. She told me she needed the last two nights to be on her own and think things through and sort everything in her head out. Like a fool I believed her and let her go to an unknown hotel in an unknown town. I found out last night that the OM left his house Wed. evening around the time my WW would have arrived in his area. He said he was going to be gone for a couple of days. Coincidence? I think not. Whatever you do, don't do as I and let him have his time to sort this out on his own.

Misn'tF

Misn'tF,

Seven weeks is NOT that long. I've seen advice on here that you should wait six months before making a "big" decision like filing for D and my personal experience bears that out. Your emotions are going to be all over the place.

You've gone from wanting to kill yourself to not caring, all in a few days? This is not the time for you to be making lifelong decisions. I suggest you see a doctor and get some anti-Ds; the thought of you having a gun to your head frightens me.

MIF, what kinds of things have you done to end the affair? Have you exposed the affair? Is the OM married?

I have no choice in the matter - I can't "not let" him do anything -- I have zero control over what he does... only what I do -- and, yes, I'm trying to get my ball rolling as well -- and each time I tell him what we need to do to get ourselves separated, he backpedals -- I told him the other night that I talked to our realtor and our house can go on the market the first week in December -- initially he says OK, 2 days later he says, why don't we hold off on that - you shouldn't have to leave our house (this is also after I tell him I'm looking for apartments closer to the city where I work). Just makes me think that he is still trying to hold on to both - but, yes, I'm trying to go forward separately - I'm insisting we list the house - it holds bad memories anyway... it is really hard because I still want to make things work out w/ us but am trying to be realistic - so when he says these things I grab back onto that life raft - i suppose thats typical of the cake eaters.. and he knows I don't want to lose him so when he says this stuff he knows i'll hesitate -- it sucks, i say. But - I'm going to look at apartments this weekend so, we'll see... every day brings something new and usually even more absurd!

Turtlehead, I am on anti-depressants. Have been since this saga began. Here is my thread from my "suicidal day". For whatever reason I woke up feeling down and the day went on downhill from the get go. I obviously didn't go through with it and won't. I have never considered suicide in the past, that was the one time. I realize I have 3 darling little girls who need their father in their life and I won't deprive them of that. You are also right that 7 weeks isn't that long, but I feel after her looking me in the eye and telling me she was not going to be with him and then turning around and doing that is something that I can never forgive. I don't think I will ever be able to trust her again. I figured I would start the D process, and if it is enough to make her give up the OM and she makes an effort at working on our M then the D can always be called off. Right now, I truly feel I deserve to be treated better than she is treating me.

Melody,
OM is not married or dating anyone (besides my WW). My WW sent two NC letters, and obviously violated both of them. I exposed this to our families. As a matter of fact they are all privy to the most recent events. I spent a long time on the phone with her mom this AM as well as my mom.

Oh yeah, OM lives in his parents basement and last night I called them to find out if OM was home. That's how I found out what was going on. OM's mom told me he left wed. around 9PM (about the time my WW would have gotten into the area) and he told his mom he would be gone for a couple of days. So his parents have been exposed as well.

Misn'tF

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: marriage isn't forever ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillprocessing:
<strong> I have no choice in the matter - I can't "not let" him do anything -- I have zero control over what he does... only what I do -- and, yes, I'm trying to get my ball rolling as well -- and each time I tell him what we need to do to get ourselves separated, he backpedals -- I told him the other night that I talked to our realtor and our house can go on the market the first week in December -- initially he says OK, 2 days later he says, why don't we hold off on that - you shouldn't have to leave our house (this is also after I tell him I'm looking for apartments closer to the city where I work). Just makes me think that he is still trying to hold on to both - but, yes, I'm trying to go forward separately - I'm insisting we list the house - it holds bad memories anyway... it is really hard because I still want to make things work out w/ us but am trying to be realistic - so when he says these things I grab back onto that life raft - i suppose thats typical of the cake eaters.. and he knows I don't want to lose him so when he says this stuff he knows i'll hesitate -- it sucks, i say. But - I'm going to look at apartments this weekend so, we'll see... every day brings something new and usually even more absurd! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hear ya. Just so you know what I think will work for me won't necessarily be the best thing for you. I kinda feel relieved that this is in the process of coming to an end. Maybe this will open her eyes and she will decide that she wants to stay married to me, but as I mentioned before, I can always call off the D, but for now I think the best thing for ME is to try and move on with my life. My WW has already done that while I was still trying to cling onto it. She just kept dragging me along, and I can't hold on any longer.

Mis'tF

MIF,

I gave the ultimatum and my WW chose OM. So I second guess whether that was the best thing to do or not. Honestly though, I don't think I could have done it any other way. Having her live with me but sneak around with the OM was driving me absolutely nuts and I had to get her out or my sanity would have been lost.

Anyways if you think you need some space from her, focus on your kids and getting yourself back human again. My self esteem was at an all time low after the A but is gradually improving since she's been gone. You'll still miss her, but at least you can focus on your kids and yourself instead of her.

All the best.

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Miker ]</small>

Miker,

I too cannot go on like this. Her sneaking around is driving me nuts. I need to do this for me. I am moving on with my life. I know this will be tough and there will be a lot of ups and downs until this thing is over, and even after it's over, but I would suffer through the same if I were trying to make it work.

Misn'tF

I think what I have seen here is too many people getting so caught up in plan a they lose themselves. Plan a is important. You cannot expect things to change if you are not willing to work on yourself as well. All of us make mistakes and we all could learn to communicate and treat our spouses better. But there comes a point, after you make that effort and the w/h still does not treat you better that you have to take care of yourself as well. We are all good people and deserve to be treated as we are trying to treat our spouse. Yes, we sometimes throw out lb. After finding out about an a, i think that is a normal reaction. Trying for years to make someone love you is not. We can improve ourselves, and our weaknesses for our own sake, and our childrens but if the other person does not start to see it or acknowledge it, then they don't deserve us. Not the other way around.

Sorry to run on .

slacker,

I was working on myself. I was working hard at changing myself to be the husband that I felt she deserved. I got no effort on her part. I was working hard and she was working hard at covering her tracks and finding ways to contact him and be with him without me knowing. She left me a card before she left on Wed. that she wrote the following in:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thankyou for giving me this time to clear my head and soul. I truely believe that we can have a wonderful and fulfilling marriage if we work hard at it together. I just want to be avsolutely sure that I can let go of the past and start with a fresh slate and give you the chance you have been working so hard to deserve. I believe you are trying to change you and I believe you can change you. I want so bad to believe that you can and will be the man and husband I have always longed for and that I can be the woman and wife you have always longed for. I want us to be the couple we promised each other to be 10 years ago.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ya know, after reading that again, I realize I should have told her not to go since she believes I will change and we will have a fulfilling marriage. I mean if she believed that why would she need these past 2 days to sort out her feelings? Because she wanted a trial run with the OM that's why! Well, I hope they had an ejoyable time because without kids, and bills and responsibilities her little fantasy looks pretty damn good. That will all change here soon enough and we'll see how long they last.


Misn'tF

MIF- its been 13 weeks since D-Day for me and my WW is still on the fence, telling me she wants her family, but still sneaking around and seeing OM. Now, more and more, I think about filing for D and letting her see for herself what kind of mistake she made, but I think that is what she wants. She wants someone else to make the decision, I don't want to give her the satisfaction. Yet, sometimes when I am with her, I want her back, but I have those feelings less and less and its scary.

Like you and others I am tired of the misery and torture, but I don't want my boys growing up in D family.

Just to let you know that you are not alone, I have made it 13 wks, but don't know how much longer.