Pickles are sour:
(First, I realize that you only mean well and want to bring something positive to this discussion).
If ONLY Dad to 3 felt as you do. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
***********************

I don't think anyone has come on to JUST beat up on Dad23.

As I recall, MANY (most) were VERY supportive and encouraging when they "thought" Dad was actually committed and striving FOR recovery.

It's only been since his ACTIONS (or inaction's) have been brought to light by Mom23, that the support for HIM has stopped. (it never has for mom).

These actions have been during her fathers terminal illness and even in the face of Dr. Phil.
If he doesn't "get it" .....don't blame those who simply Point that fact out.

If there ever was a candidate for a forest of 2 x 4's....its Him! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

We can get behind MBing......but will react in the opposite manner to this guy's current behavior. I haven't jump in.....but support those that are radically honest.
Especially with Dad's track record...(many "false" recoveries).

Face it, he's an expert at "saying" whatever he thinks will benifiet him most...at the moment.

I care WAAAAY more about what MOM is reveling he is DOING.....then I ever will by what this guy "Says" (on TV) or writes here.
His own behavior speaks for itself.

Also remember, However Dad comes across tomorrow....its due to his own words and behavior.
NO ONE put him in this Situation.

(Heck, he apparently Wants to continue in it (or is at the very least wavering) ......sad, Sad, SAD).

(((((((((({{{{{Mom to 3 boys}}}}})))))))))) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dad,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am at home taking care of the kids and I am trying to be supportive. I am way ahead of my past attempts to recover. My wife sounds like she is meaking up her mind to leave.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mom just needs to feel wanted and loved. She is a beautiful girl and you are lucky to have her but if you can't understand that then you are going to lose her. It is up to you. Can you honestly say that OW would care about you as much if you didn't have the money, prestige and the title of MD? Many woman would love to "catch" a physician and would do whatever it takes to make that happen. I am not saying that she didn't find you attractive or nice but...Mom loves you for you, can you honestly say that about OW? By having your baby, she is financially enhanced for the next 18 years. I don't think that is what you mean to Mom, do you?

Mom said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He said he has a lot going thru his mind...I repeated out loud what I thought was going thru his mind


This marriage is never going to work

I shouldn't have given up OW

She is better in bed than you are

Maybe I should just go and be with her so I can raise this GIRL!

This is so boring, I dont want to live this way.

His response was "yea, I wont deny having thought about all those things"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1. Yes, it can but you have to put 100% of yourself into this relationship. You can't fake it!
2. Yes, you should give up OW. You have no right to love or honor someone else while you are still committed to someone else. If your marriage was over you should have ended it first. You needed to be strong, not a coward.
3. It is easy to learn how to be great in bed, it just takes love, patience and communication. Tell her what you like. Sometimes being great in bed comes with experience, is that what you want?
4. You also have three wonderful boys with a woman you committed to. Your daughter will be loved regardless. Do you really think OW will love your boys, in her heart?
5. Your life with OW would be boring too when she settled in as MDs wife and mother of his child(ren). Same life, different wife! Most MD's wives quit nursing in pursuit of the social prestige of MD wife. You know that, look around you.

Really, I am not trying to be hard on you. I just want you to think of how lucky you are and happiness with Mom is in your grasp, if you want it. It is so, so hard for a woman to get past the feeling of inadequacy and hoplessness when your husband chooses OW, even temporarily, over you. To some it is a blow never to be recovered from. Look in your heart, Can you imagine your life without Mom? Can you imagine her married to someone else? Your boys cuddled up on some other man's lap? The looks of love she give to given to someone else? The touch she gives to you given to someone else? Is this what you want? If not, stand up and fight for Mom.

Peace to you and Mom.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Cathy

Top ten reasons to go on Dr Phil:
10. you hate those bland impersonal family update form letters and want folks to see for themselves.

9. Maury would not pay for your paternity test

8. you can't wait to go home and talk southern to your friends.

7. Finding out that they eat real food when flying first class.

6. Those awesome Dr Phil coffee mugs

5. Finding out middle aged balding men can still have groupies

4. The rush of public humiliation

3. Knowing your problems will be solved after the commercial break.

2. Soundbite therapy

and number one..... you got turned down for Oprah.

Ridiculous...

Too funny Dad2! I'm glad to see you've got your sense of humor--it will help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dad2, you have a golden opportunity now to be Mom2's rock in recovery when she really needs it while she's focused on her dad. You know that you can be the rock. I think you want to be the rock. Be the rock Dad2, don't waste this window of golden opportunity ok?

Um, about the "hot topic"------

Please be careful not to set yourself up for major disappointment ok? OWs say and do a lot of things to keep ties with a MM who wants to reconcile with his wife. If you've read any OW board, you would know that intentionally getting pregnant is not uncommon at all. It is also not uncommon for an OW to claim that the baby is the MM's "preferred" sex for a child. Unfortunately, I also know this from personal experience--and the baby wasn't even FWH's.

Also, please be careful not to let OW prevent you from achieving what you want with Mom2, ok? Don't you think that OW knew that finding out her baby's sex would get you to break the NC agreement with Mom2? Don't you think that OW knew what fallout there would be for Mom2 and for YOU? What happens when she claims she has cramps? What happens when she claims she's spotting? What happens when she uses every pregnancy ploy there is to use? What happens if you fall for it again?

You won't fall for it again Dad2, because now you know about using pregnancy ploys to get you to break NC. Be the rock Dad2, you know you can <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dadto3boys:
<strong> Top ten reasons to go on Dr Phil:
10. you hate those bland impersonal family update form letters and want folks to see for themselves.

9. Maury would not pay for your paternity test

8. you can't wait to go home and talk southern to your friends.

7. Finding out that they eat real food when flying first class.

6. Those awesome Dr Phil coffee mugs

5. Finding out middle aged balding men can still have groupies

4. The rush of public humiliation

3. Knowing your problems will be solved after the commercial break.

2. Soundbite therapy

and number one..... you got turned down for Oprah. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is kind of funny in a morbid kind of way. Dad, you have to "sack up" here and get over your $hit here to help mom. These are the times that make real men, are you gonna be one?

I have been curious about something, D23B.
When you told M23B that OW couldn't get pregnant was that what you truly believed or was it just another of your lies and not OW's lie?

If OW had you believing she couldn't get pregnant..that she was using birth control or whatever...isn't it highly likely that she did this on purpose...you must question her character if she's done such a manipulative thing.

NC is imperitive for recovery. You must find a replacement at that NH and stop going there all together. Your withdrawal will not really begin until there is NC. JMHO

You can have a wonderful marriage in spite of all this...you need to build toward that before the OC is born and assume OC is not yours until it is proven otherwise. Isn't there some sort of paternity test that can be done pre-birth?

DT3B-
that was done in poor taste. Have some respect for your wife. Have some respect for the situation, have some respect for yourself.
Sorry if this is harsh but is seems you are getting a big kick out of the attention that the OW and Dr. Phill are giving you. You are making sure this drama continues. THat is just my opinion however, take it or leave.

DO me one favor though please. THink of those three boys and what you are putting them through. You can stop this if you chose too.

Before we start beating up on D23B...I think we need to realize there is a message between his lines.

D23....you're upset about this Dr. Phil thing. I know you did it to help your W, help your M, but it's really got consequences you didn't realize until now right ?

National Televised Exposure of your situation. Up close and personal to the pain that this causes all around.

I think this bothers you more than the withdrawal.

You feel like public enemy #1 right now I bet.


Get some of this stuff off your chest.... if you hold it in...it could have terrible consequences.

People that work in high stressed jobs that deal with life and death have funny type of sense of humors. I am very guilty of this myself.
I thought your list was very funny Dad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Dad...Mom does not want her marriage to fail. She does love you I have no doubt. As far as her leaving you, She wont go anywhere as long as YOU are committed to your marriage and your family. That choice is yours.

I have my own take on Dads distance. Throughout the past few Months, mom and I have compared our Husbands personalities. Based on how simular the two men are I suspected that Dad's withdrawl has ALOT to do with Mom's fathers impending death.

First alot of Doctors do NOT deal with death well. They do a great job of sticking death in a special compartment and leaving it there. They are trained to be distant and professional.
Second Dad is not close with his own father, and had been close with Mom's Dad in the past (before A). I dont think DAD is handling Mom's Fathers illness and impending death very well. Doctors want to heal and fix ilness. It is very tough when they cant and horrible when it is someone in there own family. My own husband still has not recovered from his fathers disease and death, and it's been years.
I feel dads response is to Mom's fathers illness is to alienate Mom and her family so he does not have to deal with it.
OK Dr Phil I am not, It's just my opinion. Dad gets very distant when Mom goes to See her Dad and while she is there. He tends to "start things up" and is at his finest in the nasty dept. I truly do not think Dad is such a bad guy
CONFUSED ? Yes But NOT about being with the OW and the baby. Dad KNOWS that would never work out. He is very critical of the OW and it has only been a few months an I dont mean just her lying personality about everything.

I know Dad Loves Mom. My Husband would never go on national TV where his family, friends, professional colleages, patients and the whole blasted world can see him admit making a HUGE mistake and wanting to make a mends with his wife. I have told Mom that this speaks volumes.
This is absoulty HUGE I am very proud of Dad I do think he needs to let his emotional guard down and grieve with his wife right now. They need to hold one another and get through this horrible time in their lives. As far as the OW and the ? child. deal with that after the baby is born. That woman is a NONISSUE she always will be. If the baby is Dad's (I still doubt that) then deal with the baby PERIOD!

Now call your wife Dad and tell her you love her
You know you do!! Have you seen her picture ??
She's gorgeous!!!

I believe you Dad. I just do. You have no reason to lie to us here. Plus if you have been in contact that scum of an OW would have called the Dr Phil show to tattle. I told Mom based on OW past performances she would have called, no doubt. Too bad OW did not go on the show she could have won an emmy for her acting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Goodnight
SOM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayedinjersey:
<strong> Before we start beating up on D23B...I think we need to realize there is a message between his lines.

D23....you're upset about this Dr. Phil thing. I know you did it to help your W, help your M, but it's really got consequences you didn't realize until now right ?

National Televised Exposure of your situation. Up close and personal to the pain that this causes all around.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this is probably the crux of the issue. I guess I can't blame him, it is going to be a pressure cooker for him after this show airs tomorrow. This must be a very rough time in the household. SIGH........I hope that the children are ok. Not much else to say but offer prayers. If you believe in a higher power then you have to belive that he/she wouldn't give you anything that you couldn't handle. You couldn't even make this stuff up if your tried. Hopefully some good can come of all of this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StressedOutMom:
<strong> People that work in high stressed jobs that deal with life and death have funny type of sense of humors. I am very guilty of this myself.
I thought your list was very funny Dad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


First alot of Doctors do NOT deal with death well. They do a great job of sticking death in a special compartment and leaving it there. They are trained to be distant and professional.
Second Dad is not close with his own father, and had been close with Mom's Dad in the past (before A). I dont think DAD is handling Mom's Fathers illness and impending death very well. Doctors want to heal and fix ilness. It is very tough when they cant and horrible when it is someone in there own family. My own husband still has not recovered from his fathers disease and death, and it's been years.
SOM </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This was a pretty insightful post I must admit. I think anyone who deals with life and death on a daily basis has to "compartmentalize" death to do their job. As a physician (and especially one who deals with trauma and the catastrophic sequale) this is my way of life. I don't necessarily agree with your assessment of why dad23b is struggling but I think your overall premise of MD's who want to "fix" everything and struggle when they can't (especially when it is theor own family) is prety accurate.

LM,
I'm leaning towards this as well... it appears to me this would be one of those..."seemed like a good idea at the time" deals.

With the pressure cooker working...it's difficult not to have all kinds of stuff running through your head.

Hang in there D23...think of it this way....if you can make it through all this... you'll make it through anything life throws at you.

M23 mentioned that you didn't think your M would survive after the OC is born.

Maybe it's best to work some of those things our NOW....there is obviously stuff going on in your head.

Too much on your plate right now... the A, the OW, ailing FIL, Dr. Phil, 3 boys. I swear to God I don't know how you people survive.. so much stress.... I think you're both doing amazingly well...all things considered.

M&D,

Okay, I did not read much of anyones' responses.

Dad, OK. I know Dr Phil is stessful, ow being pg is stessful. But you are trying for recovery, right? In spite of it all.

Dr Phil is over at this point. You all had your 15 minutes of fame. It will be over soon. I hope you got good advice, and no one will remember who you all are next week. I just hope you got some good advice.

Now is Mt3B's time with her dad. He has a limited time now. Please try to support her. You won't be sorry you did. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Especially if you want recovery. After all, you went on tv, right?

Forget everything and be in the moment for father of mom. Support please, taking care of kids, whatever.

I cannot stress how important this is in the long term, and dad, you should know this as you work with those old folks in the nursing home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Mom, just relax and be there for your father.

Think about the other stuff later.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StressedOutMom:
<strong> .

IFirst alot of Doctors do NOT deal with death well. They do a great job of sticking death in a special compartment and leaving it there. They are trained to be distant and professional.
Second Dad is not close with his own father, and had been close with Mom's Dad in the past (before A). I dont think DAD is handling Mom's Fathers illness and impending death very well. Doctors want to heal and fix ilness. It is very tough when they cant and horrible when it is someone in there own family. My own husband still has not recovered from his fathers disease and death, and it's been years.
I feel dads response is to Mom's fathers illness is to alienate Mom and her family so he does not have to deal with it.
OK Dr Phil I am not, It's just my opinion.
SOM </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thanks for making that point I had not even realized that.

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: dadto3boys ]</small>

Dad,

Today WILL BE HARD for you. It takes a lot of courage to let people know what you do. I remember my husband explaining something like "It wasn't like that." To be with another person and make them happy -- what could be wrong with that? BUT when it comes out, and the reaction is horror by your W and now the nation, that will be difficult to take.

Good luck to you today and in the future weeks as people recognize you and talk about you. YOU ARE FACING THE TRUTH. Only good can come of it...
Cherished

dadto3boys,

People made mistake but it is not about the mistake it is about you are doing afterward define YOU. Do you want to be remember as a Dad that left his wife & 3 boys or a Dad that made mistake and doing everything to get his family to survive his mistake ?.

I am glad you got help and there is no better help then getting from Dr. Phil. I really appreciate you for going live in prime time ... to remind many other Dads not to go there. I hope that a few months from now Dr. Phil would do follow up and you could be the Dad to your wife and boys.

hang in there ... when time is very tough, just do the right things w/o thinking and delay the wrong things as long as you can until you get stronger to avoid it. I have faith in both of you would make it. Both of you want the same thing ... a happy family and a fulfilling M.

-rh-

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

I don't buy the notion of letting Dad2 off because he can't handle death well...he works in a NURSING HOME! How many patients get better and go home???? Good grief! Where has sense gone!

I doubt Dr. Phil or anyone else counseling Dad would pat his hand and say bless you, your suffering because Mom's Dad is dying. Give me a break! This isn't about Dad2, it's about what Mom2 and the drama that Dad2 keeps inflicting on her at the worst possible time!

His obsession about xow has nothing to do with Mom2's crisis, it's all about Dad2's character. I thought the joke about going on a television talk show was base. I hope Dr. Phil reads these posts and sees how Dad2 considers the whole thing a joke. Like I said, ridiculous.

Dad2 is jerking some people around just as he has jerked Mom2 and ow. He deserves the misery he would experience with ow. And that's just what he'll get...misery.

D2, I know I've 2x4ed you in the past. I'm not going to do that now. As I've mentioned to you before, you and my H were posting at the same time about your withdrawal, I think back in Jan/Feb. At the time of our d-day H's A had been going on for about 9 months. He had a very intense EA/PA, thought he was "in-love", wondered if he should leave our boys and me, etc. So he was in deep. Plus, she was his office manager in a small business, and he depended on her that way also.

H and I were talking about you and M2's situation yesterday. Our situation could very well have been your siruation, except for one thing. Truthfully, I don't think I would have stuck in there like M2. We'd probably be Ded by now. Somehow my H was able to stick with NC, minus a month of phone contact after she stopped working for him. Maybe in his gut he knew I'd be gone if he screwed up. Maybe somewhere deep inside of him he knew what he had at home was far better than he could ever have with her. Maybe we were just lucky because our OW, who was a predator, stopped chasing him once he gave her the boot.

My H's withdrawal was very bad. It was hell for both of us. I want you to know that it does get better. In our case it amazes me to see how my H went from an in-love state to where he is now. When he thinks of OW and what he did it is with disgust. He has thanked me numerous times, in his words, for "not throwing him away." He told me one of the biggest losses for him was his integrity, and that he now feels like he is getting back with God. He also has told me several times that "Reality is much better than the fantasy", and he knows it was a fantasy now.

I don't have a doubt that the only way you have a chance of waking up is to really have NC with the OW. As long as you even run into her, you are prolonging recovery and healing.

The last thing I want to say is this. During these past months there have been many times that I have felt my H hold back his feelings for me. I came to this conclusion and we talked about it. Somehow he was waiting for all his feelings for her to disappear, and his feelings for me to reappear, before he tried to meet my ENs. That ain't gonna happen overnight. If you wait for the feelings, and base your actions on the feelings, it's going to be months before you try and meet M2's ENs. I had to tell my H periodically to kick it up a notch because I was growing weary, and he did. I am advising you to start kicking in. You don't have to be phony and do or say anything you don't mean. However, you can call M2 on the phone and tell her you're thinking of her. You can hold her and let her cry over her dad, or her life right now. You can hold her hand tight at her dad's funeral. You can restrain from adding anything negative to her life right now. You can take care of your boys and just be giving. I'm telling you that your feelings will return. And when they do, you won't believe that you allowed this OW to poison you and your M. I use the word poison because THAT is how my H looks at OW now.

Final thought. Have you made peace with your FIL? If you were close maybe it would be good for you to finish any unfinished business with him.

Sorry if this was too long and possibly preachy. I really hope for YOU that you have the strength to get through the withdrawal. Because I know you will be a very unhappy man if you choose the OW. Also, it takes real guts to go on Dr. Phil. I don't think you would have done that if you didn't love M2 and your boys. Good luck! CV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jph:
<strong> I don't buy the notion of letting Dad2 off because he can't handle death well...he works in a NURSING HOME! How many patients get better and go home???? Good grief! Where has sense gone!

I doubt Dr. Phil or anyone else counseling Dad would pat his hand and say bless you, your suffering because Mom's Dad is dying. Give me a break! This isn't about Dad2, it's about what Mom2 and the drama that Dad2 keeps inflicting on her at the worst possible time!

His obsession about xow has nothing to do with Mom2's crisis, it's all about Dad2's character. I thought the joke about going on a television talk show was base. I hope Dr. Phil reads these posts and sees how Dad2 considers the whole thing a joke. Like I said, ridiculous.

Dad2 is jerking some people around just as he has jerked Mom2 and ow. He deserves the misery he would experience with ow. And that's just what he'll get...misery. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, if you read most of SOM posts she has been very very supportive of dt3b and Mom (to the point of "almost" utter denial that the OC is his). Nothing wrong with that, just an observation. It is not suprising that she is "spinning" this all in the best light possible. I just think the "high" of the "recovery" is over and now the descent into despair/recovery is painful and reality is slamming this unfortunate situation in the face. I for one hope everything works out. Unfortunately, this has to be a very very painful time for everyone. I think D23b has gotten off pretty easy considering all the pain and despair he has caused MULTIPLES TIMES OVER, however I feel sorry for him still. The reality that the airing of this Dr Phil show will bring is something that very very few men could handle. There is likely to be outrage as most people are not familiar with the MB principles and will not be as "forgiving" and "dismissive" as many on here. Ofcourse, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, but you can't LIVE on this MB. The views and beliefs of people on this message board are a small minority of life and UNFORTUNATLEY he has to make a living and interact with the "other non-MB belivers, etc.." He cannot live live in a Marriage builders vacuum. This is going to be a tough couple of days/weeks for his psyche and esteem. If ever there was a deterrent to have an affair, his and MOm's predicament is it. It is all so sad. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />