Anne.
Since I give computer lessons (beginner) I seem to have that 'teacher' thing inside me, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

So I wanted to tell you how to simply delete your messages!

Go to your post and click on that little picture of a piece of paper and a pencil,directly above your message.
(That is how you 'edit' your messages.)

Highlight your entire message and then click on 'BackSpace' to delete it.

Then click on 'Edit Post' and it is erased!

Love, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Anne6263:

NOthing wrong with conversations on here, but in your vulnerable state you would be FAR better off talking to other women, NO men, especially someone like Lemonman who is having a hard time forgiving his wife and isn't wanting to work on his M using MB at this time.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I must say this:

I DID raise my eyebrows reading the aforementioned conversation ... and I felt rather uneasy thinking that these 2 could easily become too personal ... as they are currently very vulnerable people.

It has happened before between MB posters... 2 opposite sex BS developed an inappropriate friendship trying to help each other.

Anne, I noticed this as well and became "aware"... not concerned, really, but just aware.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, Pep, I should not be doing this, but I need you to let me know what I said that was inappropiate. What was too personal? I think it is fine if you feel this way, but guve me tanbgible proof of what i said that was "inappropiate". I just don't get it.

Lemonman, they are not saying it was YOU they are saying it was ME.

However can you tell me what I said that crossed the line?

To answer your question. I am doing "ok". I think the weekedns where I actually have no call or hospital responsibiliites are actually harder for me. I spent a lot of time reading this weekend at Borders ( I love that store). I think I am going through a rough patch lately, but I am getting through it. There are goo days and bad days. I am in my office this day (all day) with "research responsibilities" and you can plainly see there is no "research" being conducted today....LOL.

LM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You are a smart girl, you had to know that no matter how many dislaimers you put in (and you put like 10 in) feelings were going to be hurt. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, LM - I did not realize that feelings were going to be hurt. I put the disclaimers in so that the thread would be focussed on my issue, and so that you and KMEJ would realize that I was not saying you were wrong - rather that I was reacting. And I really don't appreciate the way you phrased this either. It implies one of two things....

1)I am indeed not smart - because if I were, then I would know that feelings were going to be hurt

OR

2)That I am smart, and so posted with malicious premeditated disregard for either of your feelings.

Sorry, but that is somewhat of a derrogating statement in itself. If you didn't notice, I also let the issue die. If I had been interested in pursuing you or KMEJ, I would have gone that route - but instead, I tried to focus the thread back on me, and then let the issue float to the bottom of the forum.

That being said, I do apologize for you and KMEJ's feelings being hurt. I can tell you this - if I had posted without names - as anonymous friends - then I wouldn't have gotten the appropriate feedback. If you look at the responses, you will see a good discussion about 'emotional awareness' and 'smelling smoke, but not calling fire until you are sure that's what it is.' Basically about being aware of the situation and using that to your advantage.

Had I posted about two anonymous people, I can almost guarantee that the responses would have been that my alarm bells were on target.....when I knew that they weren't - because this was MY issue, once again. Not yours - not KMEJ's.

KMEJ - LM is right. If you want to have this argument stop, then let this die. But aknowledge the fact that you must be emotionally aware of your vulnerability to an A. If you vehemently deny it, you are a lot farther away from being 'protected' than you thought.

Yours and my situation differ from a lot of people on the board in that we want/wanted emotional intimacy and connection from our H's, but they wouldn't give it. My flaw? The fact that some other man came along and met the EN's I wanted from my H - and I was not strong enough to resist. I turned into a person I never knew I could be. OM was a 'surrogate', as disgusting as it is. There is no excuse for what I did. But I can also relate to where you are now, because I received many of the same comments from others about how I needed to get myself out of the situation. And I responded much the same as you are. It took my A to wake me up. Shame that I wasn't educated or strong enough to choose another way. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> More than a shame, actually - absolutely sickening.

<small>[ November 08, 2004, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: L.I.T ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I must say this:

these 2 could easily become too personal ... as they are currently very vulnerable people.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I need you to let me know what I said that was inappropiate.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Read what I wrote more carefully ... I said "could" ... there was a lot (A LOT) of personal interest IN YOU ... not the other way around.

Pep

that is okay, I am suppose to be at work, and stayed home to clean, and here I sit, 1:20 and still in my pajamas, at least you made it to work today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I actually fell asleep at the computer last night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I guess my 2 hours of sleep did not cut it for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> It was worth it though super fun.

Do you think it was bad that I did not miss H? First time that he has gone hunting in 9 years that I just did not care. I suppose it could be all the contact he made (none today).

Does you WW contact you still? How do you handle it when/if she does?

ALso, I do not think anything that was said between us has been bad. Sorry you were dragged into something because of me. However the first thing that came to my mind was the county song "lets give them something to talk about" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I am naughty at times (no not in that way).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> Lemonman, they are not saying it was YOU they are saying it was ME.

However can you tell me what I said that crossed the line? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't really see where you crossed the line, I honestly can't. I will say this though, as much as I disgagree with the great majority of people here, these are good people who mean well. If they saw something that "concerned" them (and for the record I am not sure what it was), then you just have to acknolwedge their concern and take it at face value.

I think what may be of some "concern" is the fact that I am for the most part alone in my beliefs on this site (not in belief of Plan A or B or most of the othee stuff on this site) and I suspect that many people echo the feelings that Anne do, in that you should not be talking to me about your marriage b/c I am not forgiving my wife and that I am not into MB principles. I can see her point of view (I disagree with it) but I see it nonetheless. I would certainly understand if you felt the need to follow her advice for fear of yourself becoming a pariah on here. You have to do what you think is best for yourself (even if that means staying in your marriage in it's present state). I like talking to you and want the best for you (and everyone). I can see your pain and can imagine the extreme discomfort it must bring you in realizing that you may have to leave your WH, and that doing so is/will be the hardest thign you ever do. You know (as does everyone) my stance on this and what I think you should do, but my advice would NOT be in accordance with Harley or this MB principles. Anyway, how are the little tornadoes?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong>ALso, I do not think anything that was said between us has been bad. Sorry you were dragged into something because of me. However the first thing that came to my mind was the county song "lets give them something to talk about" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I am naughty at times (no not in that way). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not the best joke to be making right now, KMEJ. We need to be above reproach in our marriages and on this board as well. Please.

Thanks LM~
My little tornadoes are doing well, one is at school, one is passed out cold in my bed and one is raiding his dads candy collection, and thinks I do not know this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . They had a great weekend. I had Friday day off to spend with them and it was great, Saturday they went to my moms, and did not want to come home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I wouldn't either if I were them. 24/7 fun time.

Tonight H will be home and the Vikings are on Monday night football (I love football!!) we watch it as a family, and little Michael (baby-21 months) sits and yells Touchdown!!! everytime the ball is thrown. It is really cute!!!
SO I am excited for tonight!!

I know everyone means well. I am okay with it really. I however do not want to stop posting to you, so I hope that what I say is appropriate, as I do not want to be alienated here. This has rapidly turned into my 2nd home. I would miss it. However as I posted earlier, I am thinking about taking a little leave, until the dust settles.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> that is okay, I am suppose to be at work, and stayed home to clean, and here I sit, 1:20 and still in my pajamas, at least you made it to work today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I actually fell asleep at the computer last night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I guess my 2 hours of sleep did not cut it for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> It was worth it though super fun.

Do you think it was bad that I did not miss H? First time that he has gone hunting in 9 years that I just did not care. I suppose it could be all the contact he made (none today).

Does you WW contact you still? How do you handle it when/if she does?

ALso, I do not think anything that was said between us has been bad. Sorry you were dragged into something because of me. However the first thing that came to my mind was the county song "lets give them something to talk about" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I am naughty at times (no not in that way). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My WW still contacts me (we are civilly uncivil - is that even a word?). She has had a tough time facing the reality that my "Love BANK"- Holy Dear God, I just used a MB principle, is bankrupt and has been in Chapter 11. This is something that I think in a million years she never thought could happen......NEVER. It is my "doormat" "Plan A" like behavior (alhtogh I didn't know it at the time) that let her believe this. I don't get pain anymore in seeing her or hearing about her...I really don't. That is when I knew that I was "over her". I knew it was over and that God had set me free of this woman. At it's worst, I would make bargains with God in that I would give up all off my earthly possessions for her. I would have probably left medicine for her. Yes, that is all dysfuctnional and co-dependent behavior, I know. I know feel sorry for her and am on the verge of forgiving her and myslef for this divorce and marriage death. I am almost there...just not yet. The anger is now replaced by pity.

As far as your WH, I think you NOT missing him is just a abd sign. If you really want to save your marriage, then you better be in marriage counsling now. Your feelings will only go down from here. Once the train gets rolling it will be hard for him to recover you. I would have another talk with him (if you really want to save this marriage) and plead for him to see and understand how you are feeling. I would tell him that you did not miss him this weekend. He has to learn the truth and be faced with this. SOmebody is gonna come on here and say: NI, tHIS IS A LB, show him love", but that is all BS. Your husband should be blasted in the head with what you are feeling. Give him the chance to "win you back", b/c I think your feelings are only the start of bad news for your marriage. Just my .02.

<small>[ November 08, 2004, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: lemonman ]</small>

have you heard the song? You are right not the best time to be cracking jokes, I was just trying to get myself to stop being so pi$$ed off. I will use better judgement next time, but since you quoted me, I can not delete it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> have you heard the song? You are right not the best time to be cracking jokes, I was just trying to get myself to stop being so pi$$ed off. I will use better judgement next time, but since you quoted me, I can not delete it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah Bonnie Raitt and I'm assuming you are talking to me....are you refering to the old threads or something new? I never did go back and look. Why EXACTLY are you so p/oed?

In asking your wife out to dinner, is that just to clear the air, or are you coming to the "dark side" (as you put it) and thinking about forgiving your wife and taking her back?

This is a hard thing you are going through. I know what ever decision you make will be the right one for you!!

Have you ever wondered what your life would be like if you did take her back? DO you think you could get over what she did to you? Ever forgive her enough to truely be in love with her again? Ever stop wondering when you make love if she is thinking of someone else, or when her phone rings wondering if it is another person? These are all things I deal with everyday. All the things he put me through. I am wondering if I am the only one with these fears.

KB-
I was talking about deleating my joke. It was just an attempt to break the mood not increase it. I am not really that p-oed. more disappointed I guess.
YOu have always been here for me, And for that I am very greatful, believe me. It is just such a disappointment that others think I am seeking out someone on MB to have an EA with.
Make sense?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> In asking your wife out to dinner, is that just to clear the air, or are you coming to the "dark side" (as you put it) and thinking about forgiving your wife and taking her back?

This is a hard thing you are going through. I know what ever decision you make will be the right one for you!!

Have you ever wondered what your life would be like if you did take her back? DO you think you could get over what she did to you? Ever forgive her enough to truely be in love with her again? Ever stop wondering when you make love if she is thinking of someone else, or when her phone rings wondering if it is another person? These are all things I deal with everyday. All the things he put me through. I am wondering if I am the only one with these fears. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I should clear this up. I can see how my post could convey the wrong message. I am going to ask her to a dinner or whatever and ask for and give her my forgiveness in ending this marriage. My marriage love for my wifr are dead....there is no life support or CPR or mechanical ventialtion. The marriage and relationshiop are dead (just not certiifed by the coroner yet). I do think that I don't have closure yet, and that is what I need. My STBX is in a real dark place now, b/c the utter realization that she has forever lost me is slamming her in the heart. This is a tough time for her and I feel bad, b/c I was there recently. She has to live with putting the nail in our coffin (marriage) and that is going to be hard for her to deal with. It is only now that I am able to feel sorrow for her and not complete and utter disgust. That is how I know that I am healing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

that sounds like an up standing thing to do. However do not lead her on and get her hopes up that b/c you are asking her to dinner or what not that you have reconsidered the marriage. SHe is looking for a happy ending. You now hold the control, and she is kicking herself.

What did it take for you to get to that point? How were you able to let go and find peace with in yourself?

Granted you are in a different point in your life. A established career, no kids, nothing tying yourself to your STBX. Not that it makes things easier, just less red tape to fanagle around.

KMEJ:

She now knows that there is no hope. I think it was only till recenly that she belived that. You see, I was kind of like a lot of the BS on here, so co-dependenent and needy etc..thinking "falsley" that I needed her to see my love by acting this way. I could not help my behavior or perhaps a better word is I did not want to "help" my behavior. I held on to any string or kernel from her in giving me hope. My mind was such in turmoil and my heart was worse. When I stopped asking about her, when I stopped trying to "run into" her, when I stopped being a complete and pathetic, needy, doormat, she finally saw me for the man I really was. I guess this is why I seethe with anger when I see "doormat" behavior. Well, I don't know when it happened, but it just did. I remmeber a friend telling me that he saw her at a golf club that we belong to and it didn't hurt me. The sound of her name didn't rip through me. That was a great day in my life, let me tell you.

I am thankful of one thing in all of this. I could have had any number of women to bed during this time, I could have had a number of affairs (and my ego kept telling me to do it, and I thank God, I never did. I feel like a better man for doing this. I don't know how I at times resisted the temptations (my friends went to great lengths to make sure I got "plenty laid"). It may have been God sterring me to do the right thing. I don't know. I am really coming out of this rough patch. I ran 5 miles yesterday and felt good. I am eating better and I am living better. Saving my marriage was not the "right" thing for me, and I sometimes feel such profound sorrow for those that die a thousands deaths in trying to do so. There is so much more life than all of this. There was a time in my life I didn't think I would ever get to this place again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

sounds like you are doing well. I am very impressed that you were able to turn away the temptation and teh "plenty laid" attitude of your friends. With what a big hit our ego's take when we are betrayed, it is hard not to try and rebuild it by going out and getting a rebound lay. I had lots of friends trying to set me up as well. I was such a mess at that time. They were just trying to get me out of my rut.

How long until your divorce is final?

What was the final breaking point for you that told you that you have had enough, you will take no more, and you took on this take no prisoners attitude?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> It is just such a disappointment that others think I am seeking out someone on MB to have an EA with.
Make sense? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I'm sure that you were unaware that it came across that way but now that you ARE aware you have the opportunity to change the way you communicate. Your posts in and of themselves would not be a problem had they been directed to any of the other regular posters on your threads.

You did/do not pursue anyone else's opinions, male or female or try to engage them on a personal level to the DEGREE that you did LM and therein is the problem. If you had been AS interested in a variety of posters it probably wouldn't be the red flag it is now. Can you see that? The book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass would help clarify for you what appropriate boundaries are in male/ female friendships. I know this is all so new to you KMEJ, it's a huge learning curve here on MB.

Lemonman has good insight into your sitch but so does EVERYONE ELSE, in fact we are ALL likeminded regarding your marriage excepting the *innocents* who post to you without knowing your history. You have been encouraged down to the last poster to seek outside help beyond this forum. Are you still continuing to go to the Alexandra House meetings? KMEJ, real life is where you need to find concrete help. You told me that you would be making some calls, have you done so?

Lemon, I get the impression that you think that MB is one big lump of people all giving the exact same advice no matter what the situation. A review of KMEJ's threads would show posters refuting the wisdom of counting on Plan A in abuse situations and most presented Plan B at the very least. She has been encouraged to look out for her own safety and that of her children first and foremost. As is common with abuse victims she does not want her H painted as a "bad guy" and tries to minimize the reality of his actions.

I and others have given her numerous links, I set her up with Penny Tuppy, she has phone numbers ect. She has a wealth of information at her disposal. The only way anyone would give her the MB party plan at this point is out of ignorance of her actual situation. Your recent interaction with Melody Lane over this is a case in point, Mel was just unaware that's all, it happens.

Please don't feel that you are such an odd man out in your views, that has no bearing in this case. I enjoy your posts very much and am 100% in agreement with you re KMEJ. Understand that I've been called *Mrs. MB* by my H in jest so we are really not as far apart as you think. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> KB