LINY: Hey LINY, have you met the kettle?

LINY: Huh?

LINY: Yeah, the kettle. I think you keep calling it by it's wrong name.

LINY: Huh?

LINY: I've heard green, yellow, red...Most of the time, I hear you saying, "Grey.".............
.................................................
THE F@@@ING KETTLE--IT'S BLACK, DAMNIT!!!!!! You should be calling the kettle black. Not ANYTHING else!!!!

LINY: Oh....that...Well, you know, first there's blah blah blah. Then there's blah blah blah. Oh, and don't forget blah blah blah.

Brown: You said no contact. How can I believe anything you say anymore?!?!


I guess that's why I was never a "true" believer of NC in "all" instances: leaving a foot in the door.


I first need to apologize to anyone I have ever posted to with an opinion or my advice. I honestly (huh) don't think it was tainted. Really. HOWEVER, how the he11 am I supposed to offer opinions and give advice when, I, myself, haven't been practicing what I've been preaching? For this, I am truly sorry.

I have still been in contact with the OW. Regardless of the reason, it was/is wrong. WRONG. There can NOT be full recovery without this. I am pleading with any WS' out there. Take it from me...REGARDLESS of the reason...there can not be an attempt at full recovery without NO CONTACT.

I have--once again--hurt my W. Anything that has been built up in these past few months came crashing down again. Again, regardless of the reason for contact, the harsh reality is, my W does not trust me. Should she? Even I can answer with a flat-out, loud, "NO!" Why should she? I've once again betrayed her trust.

Ah, yes. Trust. I am now a threat to our recovery--not the OW, certainly not my betrayed wife--ME. I threatened our M once, and now again, I've threatened our recovery. And it's amazing the little iota--the miniscule piece/peace my W has in her--she is again willing to try. It's amazing what the truth can do, WSs. We all should try it sometime. It's no guarantee for anything, but it sure is a good start. Exactly where my recovery is again--the beginning. And I should be lucky enough, for I know I'm blessed enough, that brown is willing to do this. If she is, why can't I?

I AM!

Reading this, you don't know what just transpired...lemme tell you. Background, first.

I wanted to write the OW a NC letter. Sincerely, this is what I wanted--I want my M. Even with yet another bombshell going off in her heart, she was still thinking clear enough that in our situation, a NC letter will be used as last resort. (If you don't know our sit, we all work in the same place, and with everything that has happened to me, ANYTHING in writing can and may be used against me. Brown actually pointed this out, as I had wanted to write it.) POJA--if the OW hadn't called/text messaged by last night (brown had sent "a few"), then I would tell her by phone. And, it's done! I explained, that it was my W who was sending/calling her. She would have gotten an earful. I told her that when we first agreed to not speak with one another, it was done half-heartedly, my words still left the door open, and we thought we had feelings for one another. That's not the situation now. I said that I promised my W I would stop ALL types of contact with her. I told her I want my M and can't work on it with her in the picture and us still contacting each other. And she needs to respect this. She responded with "OK" to everything.

I don't know (from you experts) if I worded everything exactly the way I should have, but the perverbial door is now closed. All the windows are shut, and it's just me and my W in the house. And it feels pretty good.


But I know, my W doesn't feel "pretty good." The damage has been done--again. This is only one step in recovery. Important, but only one.

I'm truly on the right path now. Then again, how can all of you believe me as well?

Guess I'll have to gain all of your trust back too, I suppose.

(edited ONLY to change "M" to "W". I guess I have to rightside up everything.)

<small>[ November 08, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

We all make mistakes, it is how we right our wrongs that matters. Looks like you have some work to do. Good luck, and I am sorry

{{{{{{{{{{{LINY}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{{{{{BROWN}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

{{{{Liny & Brown}}}}

LINY & Brown... I'm praying for you guys...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Liny,
It looks like you stumbled a bit, but please take heart that no one said this would be easy. At least you are in the mindframe where you recognize that our actions must be corrected, that this contact is destructive to a happy M with Brown and that you accept responsibility for those actions.

This is HUGE!

I wish my W would take full responsiblity for her actions. I don't think you're the first FWS who slipped and contacted or allowed contact thinking they could control the situation irregardless to the pain it causes the BS. You've made the mistake so many of us have made and continue to make everyday:

We forget we ARE NOT married to ourselves, we are married to our marriage partners!

Oh gosh if I could rewind so many discussions with my W where I had to make that statement. She'd be on this slippery slide telling me how she felt she was justified to do X,Y, Z because she felt X, Y, Z and I'd remind her that her feelings cannot be the only yard stick she uses to justify actions in her M. Hello, you are not married to YOURSELF.

Liny, you must remember that you have and ORDER of protection filed to protect your W's from suffering due to your actions. You are her protector and the last thing you should do is cause her pain, even if it causes you short-term discomfort. Browns feelings are your priority, and your feelings are her priority, with both of you protecting one another all things can be conquered.

Thanks for posting to me, and remember every minute is another opportunity to turn things around and go the direction you intended. Don't waste time beating yourself up about making a mistake, it happened and time keeps right on ticking buddy, but if you're truly REMORSEFUL the best proof is to CHANGE YOUR ACTIONS. Please believe me friend, the best apology is to take corrective action.


Hold you head up and stay the course....we all make mistakes...even the good guys/gals <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

FM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LINY:
I have still been in contact with the OW. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Nevermind

<small>[ November 08, 2004, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LINY:
I have still been in contact with the OW. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WOW!
This does sum it up doesn't it?

Liny <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Brown are you okay?

FM -hey how are you? I'm not too good now.

Brown

It is interesting Liny..that this epiphany came on the heels of exposure.

What do you think about that?

Noodle

LINY -

You know how much we care about you and Brown - time to straighten up. Brown has been very forgiving and loves you very much.

So do yourself, her and your kids a favor and do this thing right.

<small>[ November 09, 2004, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: believer ]</small>

Hi, Liny.

We haven't chatted before, but I wanted to pass a few thoughts along to you.

I had a friend who abandoned his wife and three kids so he could 'help' another woman. I talked to his wife many times, I sat with his daughter and worked with her over her suicidal condition. She wasn't just upset, she was down in the hole. Others that have been there will know what I am talking about.

I did what I could to help support his family, but I could not remedy the pain they were all in.

Which brings me to my thoughts of violence. You see, I hated what he was doing to his family. I am a believer, Liny, but I am big, strong, and tough as nails. The more I thought about the situation, the more I wanted to catch up with my now ex-friend and 'talk' to him. I wasn't intending any long term harm, but I honestly entertained the idea that if I just hurt him enough to get his attention, just maybe I could talk a bit of sense into him

I figured that I could equate the pain of him being doubled over puking because of a decent blow, with the way his family felt because of his actions. I wanted him to realize just how badly he was hurting his family.

Of course, this was all a bad idea on my part, but to this day, I think I would have tried it if I had seen him. He avoided me - imagine that.

My point to you is simply this. Do you have any idea, even a slim notion of what you are doing to your family? Don't answer, just think about it. Think about your wife doubled up in pain puking her guts out over the pain you are inflicting upon her. If you don't think that what you have done didn't effectively beat her up, then you had better have another think. You might as well have punched her lights out. At least she would get over that sooner than the more severe emotional pain she is suffering.

There is another factor at work here, and that is fear. Do you know how debilitating fear is? Think about this. Let's pretend that a guy just like me lives in your neighborhood, only he has no moral restraint. Maybe you slept with his wife, and he has made up his mind to get you. The problem is that he is insidious about it. He is going to catch you unaware and pounce. Imagine what it is like to live enslaved to fear. Worried about what is around every corner. Pulling up your pants in the john only to look up and see him standing there, waiting to hurt you. That is what life is like for your wife. Never a minutes peace. Always wondering when she can let her guard down. She wakes up in the morning and asks herself "will Liny blow it today". She just wants it over, but you won't leave it alone.

A couple of rhetorical questions. Do we all need to pray for a bit of pain for you so that you can realize what you are doing, or do you understand pain well enough to stop inflicting it on your wife? What makes you think that she can recover from this last time? Is it because she recovered from the last, last time? Why has she not tossed you to the curb, suitcase in hand? Is there some greatness in you that makes you so special?

Liny. You simply have to realize what you are doing, or your reticence and remorse of today will be an empty future memory as you do the same thing again to your wife.

I am not around to get your attention, but I can assure you that if you continue on the path of the past, eventually, life is going to stalk you until fear finally overwhelms you in a very cruel way.

This is not a 2x4, I really do wish you all the best Liny and Brown. The fix starts with you, Liny. You can talk about digging a ditch all day, but until you are standing knee deep in mud, shovel in hand and ditch behind you, no one is going to take you seriously.

Gimble

I got to be slow this morning ,,, HAVE you been in contact with OW all this time ?????????

OR did she contact you and you told her the following (what you wrote above ) ????????

I read the post again and I am still not shore ....

IF the contact was in response to her and you told her take a hike (witch in JMVHO should be the only way to tell her) then ok ,,, .

BUT brown should always know first ..

IF your saying you been in "CONTACT " with her along ... then well you know the response ...

NOT GREY NOT AT ALL !

NO reason ,never, noda, nope,never friends, NOTHING !!!! AT ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MIstake ok ,,, work dam hard to fix it ,

Do you want BROWN to never trust you again ? DO you want to live with knowing that things that come out of your mouth are questioned , thought over and processed with a tweezer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on LINY ,,, close this HUGE MISTAKE , BURN IT ,work on your recovery and your M ...

Get real , please !

ok I am done , not only are you hurting the one who loves you ,,, your hurting the one you love .

I'm so sad.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{LINY&BROWN}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by brown:
<strong> FM -hey how are you? I'm not too good now.

Brown </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I apologize for not responding sooner, but my own dramas are very consuming.

Brown it's totally understandable how you feel, the sudden dips on the rollercoaster tend to catch us off guard. I know how you feel, but there is always hope especially when your FOGHEAD is clear enough to at least recognize the fog for what it is, full speed ahead doing the wrong thing in spite of overwhelming evidence and somehow rationalizing it into a harmless or acceptable actions.

Take a breather Brown, you have earned it. Sanity is just as important if not more important than saving your M. Think about it, what good is saving your M if in the end you're too emotionally taxed to enjoy it.

I'm rooting for both of you, always have, always will!

Sincerely,

{{{{{Brown/Liny}}}}}
Praying for you guys!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LINY:
Exactly where my recovery is again--the beginning. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually LINY ... your recovery is NOT starting over at the "beginning"... not in my mind at least.

You are further back than the "beginning".

False recoveries take a BIGGER toll on the marriage than you can ever imagine.

You and I are no longer "MB team mates" .... We are not in uniform together. This saddens me to say... but you know me LINY, I don't lie. I don't sugar coat. I don't trust your words LINY. I did, but now I do not.

God Bless you and Brown.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

liny:

I must say I totally agree with Pepper on this matter.

IF my M is in jeopardy of ending (at some point) , it is NOT because of the A, its not because of unmet EN, its not cause of D-day #1, or D-day #2.....NO not for any of those reasons.

AT least in my case it is because of ALL the continued lies, deception, & omissions AFTER I "thought" we were in recovery.

This has done MORE to damage me, my faith, & my trust then EVERYTHING else combined.

So keep digging yourself a larger and larger hole. Your ACTIONS speak for themselves.

I am sorry for your S's continued Hurt feelings and I'm sorry that you can't seem to get your Act together.
Sad all the way around!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>

False recoveries take a BIGGER toll on the marriage than you can ever imagine.


Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For some reason when I first read Linys post I didn't interpet it as him having CONTACT with OW since D-day, for some reason I misinterpeted it to mean he had intermittent contact on the cell phone or something...please correct me if I'm wrong.

GOSH Liny, I dont want to beat you up too badly because at least you want to save your marriage, heck that's more than I get from my wife...but then again I guess just being there should be enough for me huh? Back to you LINY, you deserve more than a 2X4 whack if you've been in contact with OW all along. When are you going to buy into the principles and actually put them into ACTION? Its sort of like my W seeing me using the scriptures in my actions and saying things like...your doing the right thing, and then I say "Well when are you going to put the scriptures and your beliefs into action in your life?" and I get NO RESPONSE!?!??!


Liny,
When are you going to completely buy in?
Do you realize you are screwing up your M?
Do you realize nothing benefecial or good comes out of something that hurts others?
Do you realize assuming responsiblity for our actions is not enough, we must act responsibly?

These and other important questions will be asked repeatedly until LINY is fully out of the fog and sees the true seriousness of his actions.

Sincerely,

FM

<small>[ November 09, 2004, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>