Hello all,
I have spend several weeks revising and rewriting this letter to WW.
Current sit. is she is currently living on her own in apt. and we share joint custody of our kids. WW is still very much in contact with OM and from last night convo. with her, seems to be still strongly in love with him. Although she does not want to rule out a future with me neither. Unfortuanately she can not have it both ways. I want to send this letter to her next week. We have sort of already put into play what i have written. I am wondering because of this how much good will this really do or how much of a effect it will have on her.
She is still cake eating whether she aware of will admit it or not.
Am i wasting my effort?
Please review and provide comments.
Thanks
jets
My Dear WW,
I love you and have always loved you. So much of you is woven into me and will always be there. You are the best thing that happened in my life. You are the person in my life that understands me the most. I love you for being the warm and sweet person that you are; you are a good mother, and a loving wife. I will look back on the 14 years as well as the 20years I have known you and try to think of only the great and wonderful times that we shared.

We both have made mistakes in our marriage. I realize that I made our relationship vulnerable and said selfish and hurtful things. I did not purposely mean to hurt you in anyway. You are truly the last person I would want to hurt. I realize now that I was not being respectful of you and your feelings. I also realize that this pushed you away from me and made you lose feelings for me. I am truly sorry for this and ask that you please forgive me. I was unaware of our relationship problems I didn’t give you what you have been longing for the most, affection, communication, and respect that you deserved and now we both have to suffer for my mistakes.
I am working on improving my personal issues. I have learned ways to improve our life together through all our talks, counseling, and relationship books that I have been studying. I can avoid my mistakes now that my eyes have been opened. I know I can meet your needs and be the loving husband to create a new life for both of us and our family.

Every time you contact M, I feel so hurt that my love for you is starting to erode. I cannot let this happen. I need to protect my love for you. I cannot have contact with you while you are involved with M. I will only be talking to you as a co-parent for our two beautiful kids. I will be cordial and polite anytime I am around you. I will not have contact or discussions with you unless we are discussing co-parenting issues. When picking the kids up or dropping them off from school or your apt. you should cont. to do what we are presently doing. I will call A on home phone and let him know that I am on my way and for you to not be present when I arrive. We will split bills and expenses for the kids as was agreed in the separation agreement. For the sake of A and J I am asking you to attend their sporting events and other activities without M. As we discussed and legally noted I do not want M present in your apt. while you have A and J with you for the week. I know you stated that you may go out to have dinner with M the weeks you have the kids. I ask if you could limit this as much as possible for the sake of A and J. I think this would be in the best interest of the kids to not to be continually exposed to an affair relationship. I ask you to respect my decision with all of this.

If you want a relationship with me, you must end all contact with M permanently, get individual counseling, and show me that you want to put the work and effort into making us a couple again. Once you have done that, I will welcome you back with an open heart and arms and we can open our discussions and talk more about reconciliation.
I still love you and always will, it is painful for me to know that you are involved with another man. I must protect myself from the pain I feel knowing you are with him and how it puts our family at risk. I want to be a good husband to you and good father to our kids. I want you to be happy in a lifetime relationship with me. I want us to have a better, stronger, and happier marriage than we had before; I want to be your best friend again. It will take a lot of commitment and hard work from the both of us, but my heart and gut feel it is right and we can do this. I am willing to make this commitment, once M is out of the picture. I have not closed the door on my love for you and for us to reconcile, just as I hope you have not.
Take care, of yourself.
I will be praying for us.
With all my love,
jets

Am i wasting my effort?
No.

I will only be talking to you as a co-parent for our two beautiful kids. I will be cordial and polite anytime I am around you. I will not have contact or discussions with you unless we are discussing co-parenting issues. When picking the kids up or dropping them off from school or your apt. you should cont. to do what we are presently doing. I will call A on home phone and let him know that I am on my way and for you to not be present when I arrive.
You seem to be ignoring this point but you should get someone to act as an intermediary. Your parents, her parents but do it.

I know you stated that you may go out to have dinner with M the weeks you have the kids. I ask if you could limit this as much as possible for the sake of A and J. I think this would be in the best interest of the kids to not to be continually exposed to an affair relationship.
Limit the time? It’s okay if she takes the kids out to dinner with om sometimes?
It would be in the best interests of the children if they were NEVER exposed to an affair relationship.
Don’t dance around this issue as you have kept doing. Lay it out plain & simple. “Please do not have the children around the om at ANY time.”

If you want a relationship with me, you must end all contact with M permanently, get individual counseling, and show me that you want to put the work and effort into making us a couple again.
Once you have done that, I will welcome you back with an open heart and arms and we can open our discussions and talk more about reconciliation.
Change this. You tell her she has to do all this stuff to be a couple again and then you tell her that when she does all this, you will discuss reconciliation???
Change it to something like “when you end your affair you are willing to end all contact with om, we can discuss our future.”

<small>[ November 09, 2004, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Thanks Chris for the critique.
using her parents or anyone else as a go between is not possible for me. So this is why it has to be this way. Others have told me that there where successful plan b'ers with just contact with regards to kids issues. I know it may take longer this way, but really at this point i don't know if any of this will do any good.
I feel it may push her further into Om arms so maybe this is why i have been so hesitant in sending it. What if in six mo. to a year she still has no intention of reconciling after i send this. Doesn't this seem like i holding on for nothing to her.
Another thing by writing all of this doesn't this still allow WW to string me along, knowing if it doesn't work out for her and Om she always can settle back to me???? because she knows i will be there???

using her parents or anyone else as a go between is not possible for me.
Why?

know it may take longer this way, but really at this point i don't know if any of this will do any good.
What do you mean by this? (I'm asking you to think about this statement)

I feel it may push her further into Om arms
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Why do you only feel this will happen? It will DEFINITELY do this.

What if in six mo. to a year she still has no intention of reconciling after i send this.
Then you wait another year and then you divorce her.

Doesn't this seem like i holding on for nothing to her.
You are showing her that a marriage is worth doing something for, even if it hurts. You are showing her that you are committed.
Plan B is not simply "waiting" for the ws to return.
And even if she were to end the affair, you are not "required" to take her back.

Another thing by writing all of this doesn't this still allow WW to string me along
Only if you allow yourself to be "strung" along. Again, you are not simply waiting for her to get tired of om.

knowing if it doesn't work out for her and Om she always can settle back to me???? because she knows i will be there???
You will be there until???
She doesn't know how long and you will not tell her how long. When you are ready (2 years) you will divorce her.

Have you read, "Surviving An Affair"?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jets:
<strong> Thanks Chris for the critique.
using her parents or anyone else as a go between is not possible for me. So this is why it has to be this way. Others have told me that there where successful plan b'ers with just contact with regards to kids issues. I know it may take longer this way, but really at this point i don't know if any of this will do any good.
I feel it may push her further into Om arms so maybe this is why i have been so hesitant in sending it. What if in six mo. to a year she still has no intention of reconciling after i send this. Doesn't this seem like i holding on for nothing to her.
Another thing by writing all of this doesn't this still allow WW to string me along, knowing if it doesn't work out for her and Om she always can settle back to me???? because she knows i will be there??? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey Jets (sorry about Penngton and the loss to the Bills ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

What does it matter that she sees you as the "backup" and knows you will be there when/if OM relationship does not work out? It doens't matter as long as you get your WW back right? That is the plan here right? You have endured such extreme pain, humiliation, and deceit ALREADY, so WHY would it matter that you are giving your wife a back up plan. Actions speak louder than words. You want your marrigae back right? Screw how long it takes or what self dignity and continued pain you have to suffer. I don't get it my friend. YOu have suffered far more pain than anyone should "rightfully" suffer, yet you still are willing to accept your wife back with open arms (YOUR WORDS NOT MINE) as long as she can do NC. So what does it matter that she comes back to you when/if things with the OM don't work out??? YOu will at least have her back and still be married. You read the book SAA, right? The main character in that book got his wife back only after she (WS) was spurned and summarily dumped by the OM. He was for all intents and purposes the "consolation" prize. He was the "back up", the "bench warmer", but this didn't matter to him, he got his wife back and "recovered". At this point, given all of the incredible $hit (including your pride and dignity) you have had to suck up to remain on the course to "win" you wife back, why would you quit now? Keep on the path my good friend, you want this marriage right? Stop at nothing ! Don't give up, she will eventually (as all WS do) come around. You will then be able to give her all the EN's and comfort she needs and recover your marriage. DOn't give up the fight.

jets..

You are being too soft, too emotional. I think you kind of want to shock her. You should really simplify this. I know you are trying to make this last noble stand, this valiant letter...but...

Here is my simplistic version.

Dear ww,
I'm tired, and I've had enough.
My regards,
Jets

Essentially, that sends home the message you want her to get, at this point, I would think. Asking her to do anything while you are separated is sort of, well...off? If she wants the OM over every night, guess what, you have no power over it...especially having a legal separation filed. I believe that since she filed those, things are extremely drastic at this point...and if you support her financially, it had better be by court order, and nothing else. You are in the fourth quarter, now, how are you going to fight for the victory?

Hang in there.

Chris,Lemmonman,and Rook,
I guess i need to reread SAA? I do remember reading about plan A and B but i never remember getting as much as everyone else is telling me what Plan B is all about. What i got was when Ww cont. to see Om and refuses NC then in order to prevent them from Fence sitting, cake eating or whatever you want to call it. YOu go to plan B which is basically cutting yourself off from them. To give them the space they want to see what life would be like without u in it. I don't remember any of you shouldn't do this if you are expecting this will push your wife back quicker. I didn't read anywhere where it said it will push the om into WW arms further. Guess i need to reread this.
I have not been doing a plan b or for that matter a good separation. EX. brought kids back to her apt. after there haircuts tonight, had every intention of going home, but WW invited me to stay for dinner. Big mistake i made by accepting. I found the things in her apt. that i did not want to find. Mainly Om stuff. HIs bike, in her room all his gear, coffee mugs that he collects neatly in the cornershelve of next to the bed.
My heart fell 10 feet and i was very uncomfortable i just wanted to get the hell out, but i struggled through dinner because my kids wanted me to stay and then afterward we went back into the relation talk with WW. Round and round we go again, me proving logical points and her refusing to accept or acknowledge them as making sense. I finally ended it by telling he this was it, and pretty much what i had to do ,basically my plan B letter, to protect my feelings i had left for her. Told me if u want me to tell u to move on, maybe u should move on if that is what you want to hear. I told her from now on in no more relationship talk, no talk about anything other than kids issues and finance.
Chris her parents cannot be a go between they would refuse to do this. Don't have many friend ,that do not hate her enough now for all this, that would be willing to do this.
I told her bottom line on what she needs to do. She knows and she is aware. All i get is we can't keep talking about us. I just want this cordial friendship with us, I don't know where we are at. Deep down in my heart i want to and hope that we can reconcile so we can be a family again. Replied how is this going to happen wiht OM in picture. NO reponse more crying which i am Sick of seeing it.
WW knows she wants to be with OM, doesnt' know with me.
I will wait but 2years i don't think so, a year sure because at that point i will be able to file for divorce.
Sorry this isn't MB philosophy, but after what i saw tonight, i feel like she is doing her best to push me out of her life and even if i am a consolation prize, i don't deserve to be one. I deserve to be treated better way better than this.
jets

Hmm,
Plan B, alot of knowing is by being here for a long time. Plan B is to protect what shred of love you have left for your wife. Plan B is to stop her from getting ANY needs met by you, the I love yous and the looks of attraction and need...all of it. The shared parenting is a huge one..OM wants her, not her kids (no disrespect to the kids meant).

I don't believe you need to show her any intention of sitting idly by, just let her know you are done. She can try to figure out what that means for once. Stop worrying yourself, let her try to figure out what you mean for once. Plan B is to protect you from exactly what you saw at her apartment.

Hang in there. I will try to follow up some more. BTW, I never had to go to plan B, the night before it was to start, my fww came home...maybe that could encourage you a bit. But, I also had a different scenario, wife was still trying to hide it all from the whole family up to that point, and she knew I was about to reveal it to everyone. No holds barred. That is a plan B.

Thnks Rook,
I wish my sit had turned out like yours, but her family my family alot of our friends know what has been going on. Thanks to me I blabbed to everyone on DD and well as there after. Unfortuanately we are still where we are at.
I plan on Plan B'ing her without the letter. I have pretty much reiterated almost word for word to her what i wrote in it anyways. She heard me.
I know she cannot have the best of both worlds and whether she will acknowledge it or is aware of it this is what she is trying to do. When OM isn't there for the weeks she has he kids, i notice more invitations come my way with her ex. tonight dinner. She needs the adult convo. and she will not get that with my kids only,and even though i am positve she is within contact by phone with OM during any of the weeks i am sure he does not have the time she would like to carry on a convo. with him while he is living on the ship. She is getting email connection now, so i am sure that will be another outlet for her, but how long can she do this. In person is always better. So this is what i am plan b'ing for . To give her a taste of what life will be like without jets. I know this will be difficult with the kids, but others on this board and told me and encouraged me that this can be done, with just talking to her about kids issues. I justneed to stick to my guns.
My brother said That i almost need to do this in order to give us a chance if there is a chance for us to reconcile. Other wise this fence sitting that she is doing could go on indefinitely and tear me apart.
So keep praying for me, keep in touch and wish me success in this. AT least for my sake.
Thanks,
jets

Jets, I think you're taking too much blame for the affair in the first part of the letter. It's good to acknowledge your mistakes, but this:

and now we both have to suffer for my mistakes.

has got to go! It's good to be contrite in this letter, but don't shy away from putting the responsibility on her. I'm not talking about venting and putting DJs in there. I just think you swing a little too far in the "my bad" direction with that clause.

In addition to being sorry for your own mistakes, you have to be a little tough here. Not mean, not nasty, just tougher. Strong. Clear.

The letter is good. Work on it a little more though. Listen to Chris.

GC

Jets,

I think you are missing the boat on several things. Some have been mentioned to you.

1. It is important to put this in writing and give it to her. Words you say have little meaning now, but the letter is permenant, USE THE WRITTEN WORD.

2. The NC letter is a love letter, but a brief one, acknowledging that you realize it is not all her fault, you do love her, and you will NOT see her, talk to her or deal with her, until OM is out of the picture. This should take less than a page and it should be clear and concise. No room for misinterpretation.

3. Plan B is NOT to make her do anything. It is separate you from the goings on so that your love can endure long enough for the affair to end. It may or may not, but the odds are very high the affair will end. Less than 3% of affairs lead to marriages that last more than 5 years. The plan B is using the fact that MOST affairs don't lead to marriages at all, so it is a matter of waiting it out until the A ends or YOU decide to end the marriage.

Please don't make the mistake of expecting anything grandious to come from the Plan B letter or plan b itself. The A has to end before progress can be made. Sometimes the removal of a spouse from the game makes a difference but don't bet on it. In fact bet that the first few weeks to a month the WS will actually pull away from you. It is normal.

So short and sweet, and make sure the major points are there.

God Bless,

JL

I was tough and brief (by my standards!) in my plan B letter, and I'm glad for it.

Jets, I agree that your letter is too long. I know it's tough to cut things out. Do it anyway.

GC

Thanks Gray and JL,
I will work on your points, now that i have reread the letter a few times it does sound like i am taking alot of the blame, and i always kind of felt it was too long. Will rework it.
JL- thanks for the 2x4 with the expectations on this letter. I really never thought it would push her back to me, actually always feared the opposite. That it would push her further away, but actually after reading what you wrote and how it is completely normal for WS for first few weeks to mo. after separated to actually do the pushing which is kind of what she has been doing.
I will send it, at this point i really have nothing to lose from it and all the more to gain for myself, and that is getting me away from her situation. I grown tired of this, constant talk and constant effort to get her to see the reality of her decisions. She not seeing or listening and she remains in her fog.
thanks all for your reponses,
jets

Yeah jets, it's that tricky balance between saying I love you and I'm sorry, and also implicitly saying YOU are the one who really took a vulnerable M and turned it into a royally effed up and potentially doomed M. There's a world of difference.

I've been in plan B for four weeks. I did a letter, but just by coincidence my W called the day I mailed it, so I also did it over the phone. She bawled her head off, even though we'd barely seen each other during the five months I was in plan A. But she has not wavered that I'm aware of. My knowledge of her is precious little, because I'm dark and I avoid any news about her.

I'm not enjoying plan B the way some testify to, but it's only been four weeks. And it is nice to not worry about having to take more abuse from my W.

GC

Thanks Gray,
Seems like a long time for you to have been in plan A. Don't know how you made that really work when you really haven't had a lot of contact with your WW. It's almost like you where really in plan B and just never realized it.
I don't understand the WS thinking on any of this. I thought my WW had a strong moralistic christian values and cannot figure out where that went and how she or they can justify to themselves that this is a completely normal thing to do. How they ignore everyone else's view of this mess around them and have it not once hit home even a little bit with them. Can't understand if everyone else can see they are being selfish and selfcentered, why they can't see that.
WW had the nerve to throw out to me ,and i think she just said it because she had nothing else to say, that she was tired of me being a dictator towards her.
A dictator, that has given her everything she wanted, given into everything that she needed, as far as her choices to further her carreer and personal growth,all the while still standing by telling her the ILY's and trying to work on our marraige even though it has been mostly one sided. But i am the dictator. I am the one the forced her out. I just made it a available option i didn't force her to choose it.
Fog fog fog.
I am working on my issues, she needs to really work on hers, because even it is not with me in her life, or him or anyone else. I beleive if she doesn't address her issues as to why she felt she had to drift away from our marriage she will only repeat her own history.
jets

Jets, we agonize about logic and rationale so much, don't we? We can't help it! It's all so damned frustrating.

Plan A from a distance is not plan B. During plan A, though separated, I did my W small kindnesses whenever I could, and when I had the chance I demonstrated my own awareness of my bad habits and my own progress in getting rid of them. I sent her small gifts, did little favors for her without being asked, etc. I saw her whenever I had the chance, even though it invariably meant I was going to take some abuse.

Plan B changed all that. Yoink. No more from me. I'm done. It was obvious that she felt the difference as well.

Now about your thoughts...

The affair partners aren't rational, and that's why their behavior is inexplicable. Ignoring the critics and violating their principles is typical, typical, typical. Calling the BS a dictator and a know-it-all and controlling and all that, also typical, typical, typical.

One way I try to kind of understand it is to remember the way I was when I went a$$-over-teakettle for my own W. Being with her became such a priority that I didn't care much about anything else. If someone had told me this relationship was no good for me, it would have made no difference. I was an absolute junkie for my amazing new girlfriend. Because I moved away after we'd been together for only three months, that thrill lasted for over a year, until we were married and could finally be together all the time.

It's all insane, chemical stuff (sorry romantics, but it is what it is). The description of the affair as an addiction is not an analogy. It is a reality. When two single people fall in love, there's addiction there too, but people don't get hurt the way they do when married people fall in love with their affair partners.

GC

I can understand what you are saying Gray.
Just kind of goes beyond me how the affair partner can take history, mine in particular, 20yrs of knowing that person, go through all their high points and low points in their lives.
Creating two beautiful kids together, sharing romantic moments together (and yes as much as WW convinces herself they wheren't there or enough, there where.) They would be willing to get so involve with their feelings and just throw all of this out and trash it as if it meant nothing for someone they have known and been involved with in the fraction of that time just blows me away. There is something mental with that.
I admit there have been temptations on my part but i was strong enough to step back and look at the consequences it would have caused. Just disappointed that i thought my WW was just as strong with that.
I have planned A her, at least the best that i could, I feel now though that she is Cake eating or trying to get the best of both worlds. She will not admit this and even deny she is doing this, or realize that for this matter, but she is.
So as of last night i am cutting myself the best i can off from her and her affair world. The plan b letter will have to be sent and what happens happens. i am not going to try and sit and think about it, but to try to move on, best i can. It will kill me yes at least for a while but i can't let myself give in and continually be used by her through this mess and my feelings torn apart.
jets