What do you think the statistics are for couples actually surviving an A and in turn making their marriage better than it was before?

Are there many success stories here on the boards?

MIF?
just thinking out loud...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by marriage is forever?:
<strong> What do you think the statistics are for couples actually surviving an A and in turn making their marriage better than it was before?

Are there many success stories here on the boards?

MIF?
just thinking out loud... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Melodylane.......This question is screaming for you !!!!!!!!

MIF....according to the wise posters of this site, there are many many many many great "recoveries" if you do the plans. I think you will be hard pressed to find hard credible statistics though. It would be very hard to do a study on this and make it evidenced based. Defining "better marriage" is a tough thing to quantify as it measn different things to different people.

shaddup, LM, you owe me big for defending your honor last night!

Yes, some marriages do come out better after an affair. NOT BECAUSE of an affair, but because they worked on their marriage. My marriage is much better since because we understand how to meet each others ENs whereas we didn't before.

I have never seen any statistics on this issue so I couldn't answer that, however, I do know that most marriages do survive adultery.

Ours is better.

We try to keep the Rule of Protection in the forefront of our minds.

Rule of Protection

Count us as an on going success story.

Too many people give up too soon.

I really believe that I have one of the MB Success Stories. I am an avid believer of the necessity of following the MB System as closely as possible and even received many counseling sessions with Steve Harley. I do PLAN A for life and my FWH and I follow the RULES OF PROTECTION daily and even hourly. I have several posts on what worked for me. You might want to SEARCH under my name or member number if you are interested.

Thanks,

I guess I'm just insecure with my current situation. It is good to hear some success stories. I was hoping to hear that marriages can get better after dealing with a situation such as this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Melodylane,
Yes, some marriages do come out better after an affair. NOT BECAUSE of an affair, but because they worked on their marriage. My marriage is much better since because we understand how to meet each others ENs whereas we didn't before.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is what my thinking has been since my saga began. I truly am learning how to meet my WW's EN's. I told her that someday we will look back on this and see it as a blessing in disguise.

MIF

<small>[ November 10, 2004, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: marriage is forever? ]</small>

MIF,

yes, a marriage can recover and become much more "fullfilling" than it ever was. It's hard work but possible.

It's a matter of becoming aware of what was "missing" before.
I'd say it's "fullfilling needs" and learning to communicate the "right way".

Everything we have learned here in MBers has become a great benefit for our marriage and the relationship we now share with one another.

I don't know what the statistics say but I'd definately count us as an "Success Story". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

take care
bb

Ours is better. The A was a wakeup call.

1 year 8 months since D-day, and 1 year 3 months since recovery...and counting.

MIF,

More times than not the A is just what brings the troubles to light.

The problems in my marriage weren't due to infidelity but to the lack of understanding my wife and I had about how to "be married."

I didn't really "follow" plan A/B but I think my IC counselor led me in a way that was MB friendly.

Our marriage is now 10 fold better than it ever was.

I hesitate to say we are recovered because the old marriage had to be scrapped. It was broke way before the A's and I really didn't want any of that old marriage recovered.

Statistics, hell aren't 75% of statistics made up on the spot? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> That is what my thinking has been since my saga began. I truly am learning how to meet my WW's EN's. I told her that someday we will look back on this and see it as a blessing in disguise. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife once said that sometimes the best presents come in sh1tty wrapping paper.

God Bless

Doug

Are marriages post A actually better?


I have been thinking about this for some time now. If the marriage was highly dysfunctional and the spouses VERY unhappy with ENs then the answer is a resounding yes. However, we must not forget that romantic affairs can also occur among happily married people. A good marriage in itself is not a guarantee against an affair.

So how could anyone say that the post A marriage is better when the pre-A marriage was quite good to begin with?

I would venture to say that if the marriage was in good shape the post A marriage would never come close to approach the special situation where both spouses have been faithful to each other and where betrayal was non-existent.

LOL, this is some sh1tty wrapping paper alright. Like you, my marriage was broke a long time before this EA my WW has gotten herself into. I want to scrap the last 10 years and start anew.

MIF

Statistics don't really mean that much in my mind. I think what makes the difference is whether both parties ever truly understand what happened before the A to put the M in such trouble to begin with. I really think that's the deciding factor in 1. whether or not the M makes it at all, and 2. which direction the M goes in from then on.

It took my W about a year after Dday to really see things for what they were. To see past the A and what it really meant. I guess it all depends on the people involved. Some WS (and BS for that matter) never really see the whole picture, and some couples just don't give it enought time to happen.

The M can't recover and go on to be better than ever if both parties aren't willing to look past themselves...past the OP, past the hurt, past the promises that were either made or broken and really get to the heart of the matter. It all comes down to you and your S.

I'm thankful to count me and my W as a success story. She tells me most every day how thankful she is that we have the R that we have today and how much better things are now than she ever thought they could be (with me or anybody else for that matter). We've moved past the A (it still comes to my mind from time to time, but it has no power over me now) and are so confident in our R now that we're expecting our first child next year. That's something we never thought we see together last year.

It can be done.

Yes, yes, yes people do go on and make their marriages better! My marriage is a thousand times better than preA. Reality is that without the A we probably would have just blundered along and just so you know, it is my BH who first brought this thought up. At this point (2 plus years since DD) our marriage is THRIVING. I loved Mimi's post...using and applying the concepts works.

It is my thought that many of the limping marriages (even years after DD) do so b/c of lack of understanding or application of the concepts.

The cool thing about MB concepts is that they can be applied to just about any marital problem excepting abuse and addictions. Teamwork has to be learned or relearned in marriages split by infidelity. Read The four rules for a successful marriage to see how it all comes together. It's a brilliant plan. It can be done! Best in YOUR recovery MIF! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> KB

I am not so sure, but we will see when we get there.

From a WW point of view I can see why the marriage would be better. WW will say now H pays more attention to me. The WW may say H was detached and hence I had an affair. Now H is not detached anymore and we are closer. However, quite often WW becomes detached as well so she can start the affair. This so-called detachment or taking for granted works both ways and quite often the one who detaches the most is the WW.

So back to the post A era, no one feels detached and the couple is tuned to each other-- great!

However, how about the loss of that innocence? The fact that a spouse could be trusted blindly and that no other naked body had entered the marital space. Can that be restored? Probably not! An old Chinese proverb says that one can only be innocent once! Innocence is something one loses once and it can never be regained.

<small>[ November 10, 2004, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

QUOTE:

From a WW point of view I can see why the marriage would be better. WW will say now H pays more attention to me. The WW may say H was detached and hence I had an affair. Now H is not detached anymore and we are closer. However, quite often WW becomes detached as well so she can start the affair. This so-called detachment or taking for granted works both ways and quite often the one who detaches the most is the WW.

So back to the post A era, no one feels detached and the couple is tuned to each other-- great!

However, how about the loss of that innocence? The fact that a spouse could be trusted blindly and that no other naked body had entered the marital space. Can that be restored? Probably not! An old Chinese proverb says that one can only be innocent once! Innocence is something one loses once and it can never be regained.


Stanley, just a little thought but what about the spouse who had to live with the originally *detached* one for so many years? How about a spouse living in chronic loneliness, emptiness? There is a loss of innocence in a different way when a wife marries with high hopes of a close relationship only to find her husband is married to his career.

It is socially sanctioned for a man to spend his efforts at career building so a wife who has the benefits of such may not feel entitled to more but women are relationship minded...they do want more from relationships.

Not an excuse to have an affair no, but your point seems to conclude that it is the WW who benefits more post affair if recovery is sucessful. Recovery is a benefit for both the BS and FWS. Who are we to begrudge any party recovery benefits? This isn't a contest Stanley. If I had the mindset that my H benefitted more from recovery than I did, I suppose I'd might be a tad resentful. Do you see why this is an unproductive line of thinking?

It's no picnic from either side of the fence and there is no justice in an affair. I think it is pointless to try to prove who hurts more, who gains more ect. The whole point of marriage building is to be in a JOINT effort..not about the BS and not about the FWS...about the both of you TOGETHER. See?

You are early recovery so I can see why you think about this, but there is a point where you will not give it as much weight as you do now. Keep at it and you will see. Then you can post on a thread like this and tell a GREAT SUCCESS story! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> KB

Oh BTW, the WW doesn't "become detached so that she can start the affair" she is accustomed to being in a detached relationship and is then VULNERABLE to an affair.

KB, now where's that little cut and pastey thingy I keep for use after your posts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And, yes, whole new better marriage. And it was a darn good one before.

Our MC said you will look back in 5 years and see this as a blessing that you had the chance to make a good marriage a wonderful marriage.

Jen

KB:

You are assuming that al women that have affairs do so because their needs are not met. Believe me many women in good marriages have affairs when there is boredom, middle life, and crisis with family. Then the OM shows up and provides an escape. The affair does not always mean the husband was neglecting the wife big time. After 29 years of marriage love between a couple becomes more relaxed and less intense. Then the potential WW sees a relationship with OM that can bring intensity adolescent romance and WW goes for it. Then, marital history is re-written to justify the affair.

You are assuming that the marriage was in dire straits before the affair and therefore now it is better in the post affair era. But, my question remains the same:

WHAT IF THE MARRIAGE WAS DARN GOOD BEFORE THE AFFAIR?

Do you think a marriage with the veil of adultery and betrayal can compete with a great pre-affair marriage?

However, I have observed a lot of positives in post A marriage.

1. I am more willing to participate in SF. Heck, I am ready 24/7!

2. I have rediscovered what it is like to be in love again and feel some of the original sensations or courtship.

3. I enjoy my wife's presence much more.

4. I enjoy talking to my wife much more.

The list is long!

<small>[ November 10, 2004, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Stanley568 ]</small>

Well said, Stanley. In addition to what you have said, I don't think WW's (or WH's) understand the Values of Loyalty, Honor, and keeping your word. I recall my WW asking me shortly after D-day why I had never had an affair. I told her, "because I promised I wouldn't". I could tell from the perplexed look on her face that she could not comprehend that answer.

Hmmm Stanley, you've got me wondering..what if there was an unawareness on either parties part? If the BS thought it was a great marriage but the WS maybe wasn't aware that they were not entirely satisfied b/c so many of their financial or physical needs were being met? Perhaps there was a vague dissatisfaction with life that they couldn't put their finger on exactly. I don't know, just thinking aloud.

In my own case, I had an extremely full and busy life. It wasn't till "friend" OM asked the million dollar question..."What do you do for YOU...what do YOU do for fun?" It was a lightbulb moment I certainly could have dealt with more constructively!!

As it was, the path towards the actual A took a bit of time but it really started with that question. I was quite literally shocked to realize that very little of what I did was fulfilling for me. I had/have a great life no doubt, it's a life that H and I created together and I was/am grateful for it. I had no real reason to complain, I thought.

Unfortunately looking back, I think we were too compartmentalized and it cost us. On my part, I felt guilty about any niggling dissatisfaction because I "had it all" so I probably just buried it. H was just doing what he thought H's do..be a good provider, move up the food chain ect.

We really were clueless about the need to tend to the marriage itself, so I can't say that either one of us would say that the preA marriage was great in RETROSPECT. It could have been so much better. Was it in dire straits? Not at all. It just WAS and that was the problem. So I can't answer your question from a personal standpoint.

You will be able in time to answer your own question however, by working towards the best marriage that you can have right now. The veil of the fabulous past can be just as thick as the veil of adultery and betrayal, but if your goal is a shining future, what difference does any of it make? You are what you think. Look ahead and WORK to something better, something built out of awareness and care.

I know it sounds impossible but I am speaking to you from a couple of train stations down the very same track. Recovery is the DESTINATION Stanley. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You can look out the train window and see the rubbish on the side of the road or you can focus on the gorgeous sunset. We all have to make that choice at some point on the recovery road, BS and FWS alike. KB

KB:

I suspect my wife’s affair was born more or less in the same manner as yours. To be honest as husbands go I probably score 9/10. The only thing my wife wanted was more romance, however she had only complained as a young woman. In her 40s she never complained about this. We were much more romantic than the average couple in that we ALWAYS held hands when walking together, always went out to dinner and shows (even while she was having the affair), never stopped having SF despite a marriage of almost 30 years. I told my wife I loved her on a regular basis and never spent much time away from home. I never drank with the boys or went to bars on my own. I was or still am a good provider and gave ALL the money to my wife so she could manage the financial end. In fact, without my support there could never be an affair as wife did not have to work and could travel freely to the city where the OM lived. I also (indirectly) provided funds to the OM so he could travel to my city. I am the opposite of controlling or anal. In fact I have a very relaxed B personality. I never, not even once checked up on my wife. But, she still had the affair with an individual who is not what you would call a desirable character; in fact he freely accepted my money.

I am still the same; the only difference is that now I behave like an adolescent in love. My wife and I were virgins and had not been with others. I am disappointed that bond is broken. It could never be the same unless I have an affair myself to equalize things. What do you think?