Just need to express my frustration and hurt, I guess ...

H & I went on a three day hunting trip as we do every November. I was so looking forward to it. I was on my best behavior, avoiding LBs, being happy and friendly and I thought we were having a nice time. I tried not to impose myself on him - giving him space, as I saw it. We came home on Sunday afternoon. I talked a little before the football games came on, and then I was quiet so he could listen to the games. I thought I was doing great, and I thought he seemed content, if not happy.

On Monday he told OW that by Saturday he was so sick of me he couldn't stand to be around me. He told her that he couldn't even go to the bathroom without me standing on the other side of the door, listening. He says awful things about me and they make fun of me all the time. He told her he had previously told her he would leave me (or marry her, I don't know which) in two years, but he doesn't think he can hold out that long. She is still married and has 2 young kids, ages 4 and 8. He is 56.

In my confrontation with him (a month ago or more) I told him that I had evidence of adultery, and that I would keep it locked up unless this ever went to court. At that time it would become common knowledge and made public. I don't want a divorce (well, obviously, since I am on this web site!) He told her that he might as well go ahead and divorce me since he guessed it didn't matter if it was now or 8 months from now, that it would come out sooner or later.

But 2 weeks ago, he "talked" to me. I asked two questions at the end of his "talk." I asked "Do you intend to stay married to me?" and he said "yes." Then I asked him if he still felt any love for me at all - even just a little bit - he paused for a moment and then said "yes."

I know this is deep fog. In my heart I know that. I also know that he is "cake eating" and "sitting on the fence." (Barbed wire, I hope.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> But every time I think I am doing the right thing, he just seems to hate me more. Plan A doesn't seem to be working. Or is it? Nothing is working. I still love him as much as the day I married him, but the pain is sometimes so intense I don't know what to do next.

Although I only exposed the affair about 6 weeks ago, and continue to expose at this time, I believe that if he files (and moves out) I must go to Plan B at that time. Simply to protect myself from further pain. I feel so lost, and ugly, and stupid, and unworthy of love. (Of course, that's the way he has been trying to make me feel for a long time.)

He also told her that he had looked at one of my "books". In our confrontation, I told him that affairs are an addiction, and that when he was ready, I had some books he should read. He told her that he had looked at one of my books (probably this weekend, I don't know) and that all it had in it were "stories." He told her that was what I was doing - making up stories. That I would know one little thing and then make up a whole story about it. Actually, I couldn't make up a story as hideous as some of the things he has done. But he did tell her that maybe he should read one of the books -

Since the affair has not ended, which book do I give him if he asks to see one? I have SAA, HNHN, Not Just Friends, Dobson's book, Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders, and at least one more that I can't remember. I think that none of them will do any good until he has NC with her. Is that correct?

I am so very afraid of the future. I need to lose this fear. I know I must turn it all over to God. But although I think I have given it to Him, I still keep taking the pain and worry upon myself. Don't know how to let go any more than I have.


Although they have stopped meeting physically for the last couple of weeks, they have acquired a second cell phone each to conduct the affair with. I am sure he paid for them. They write letters and love notes and leave them for each other at a post office box owned by a company he works for. He has given her a key and they use it as a drop box. I think they are very afraid, but it's not helping.

I am so tired. I am tired of being lonely, emotionally and physically. I am tired of being lied to constantly. I miss my husband, and I have tons of anger sometimes.

Some questions:
1. If he asks, which book? or none?
2. Does this sound typical of fog? Am I doing the right things? (plan A)
3. Does it sound like exposure is working or not?
4. What do I do next? I am clueless.

Call Penny/Cerri (saveyourmarriagecentral.com) or Harleys(see above link) ...

your Plan A has gone on too long... time for a switch in tactics... If you wait, you lose ground in Plan A after too long a time.... the cake eater becomes a monster... and your H is becoming a monster... mean and cruel.

Plan B (or "protection phase" as Cerri/Penny calls it)

Please stop doing the same thing and expecting different results... Plan B ... get some solid advice first.

Pep

<small>[ November 10, 2004, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

SAA.

My H read a bit of that and I think it helped him see himself in it.

What is OW's H doing to help end the A. Do you communicate with eachother?

Plan A is short of the most important factor...EXPOSURE.

You haven't exposed the A to anyone but your H have you ?

The OWH doesn't know does he ?

Yes, exposure has happened. First to OWH who seems to have buried his head in the sand. Then to my son, most of our close friends, and it's all over town. I have not contacted OWH again because it didn't seem to do any good (H also threatened to leave me if I contacted him again) Bwahahahaha..... If I feel it would do any good, I will contact him again if I want to. So there. I have not exposed to my church or our mothers. (Our mothers are not well. I don't want to stir up feelings in the church because I hope to reconcile, and we need the church very badly.)

I think the exposure has scared them, but not enough. They are not meeting physically, but everything else is more secretive than ever and they are being more careful. Also OWH is reported to be abusive. That's why I gathered evidence and waited almost 6 months before exposure. Not the norm, but shaky circumstances I believe.

I don't know why you'd believe that OW's H is abusive. If it only came from your H then I wouldn't buy it.

If you have proof you should send it to him.
Sometimes, once out of denial, the OP's spouse can be of help in comparing notes etc.

A couple of years ago, I saw OW with a black eye and some bruises. I am almost positive it is true. Other people in town have mentioned it, also. He is disliked by many people.

starz...

plan b immediately...

especially when the reality is that your days away were really a good plan a experience...no matter the spew he is spewing...

go to plan b...

always interesting and pathetic...when a WS and OP spend soooo much energy and time villifying the WS....

tell me one thing that is attractive about a so called man..who villifies the mother of his child and whom he married...disgusting

they spend energy discussing you like swine at their fodder.....focus on evil crazy BS...and you and I never have to really look at how empty, shallow and painful our own actions are

your greatest fear should be being married to a person who is capable of buying his own crap ...

I am always more afraid of the WS that protects his wife...
and makes her or him no part of their illicit relationship...than those that have nothing better to do ...then lash at their spouses....

you can not educate a fog induced WS..
remove all books from his peripheral...
if he wants a book he is free to go buy his own copy...

time for either radical radical 180's where you opt out his chaos and line of fire...
but better yet

PLAN B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

let her really stand outside of the bathroom in fear that he is contacting you....

let her meet his needs without you there to be the distraction...

you are not now nor ever responsible for the OW husbands insidious actions....
you have no control over that at all...

your husband should be wary of the baggage she is carrying....she herself (the OW is not well)...

the time is at hand...
plan b


ARK

Starz,

If you need the Church very badly,why are you preventing them from helping you at this most difficult of times? If I were you,I would expose there too.Every little area of peace you give them by not exposing means they can carry on in that little area.They should have no place to hide and continue such a hurtful situation.

As for the OW,well,I can certainly sympathize with her if the H is abusive but she made the decision to be involved with a married man while married herself.If this guy already knows then I would think he would have taken out his anger in a really bad way by now.But it's not your problem really.You are trying to salvage your marriage and you cannot do that in the current state it is in.

I agree that Plan B is due.Expose to your church or to those who you think can help.Only you can decide if you think your mom is unable to handle news like this.I leave that up to you.Start making plans to get your WH out.If he thinks it's so great carrying on with this OW then let him get the full effect.

O

We belong to a very small church (approx. 50 members) average attendance 25 - 30. It is like a great big family, made up substantially of people over 60. One member is 102. H has been the church treasurer for about 30 years. I have talked to several of the male believers already, asking them to pray for us but especially for my husband. I have asked my pastor to do the same. He knows the full story. I didn't give them specifics, but they know I want them to pray for H and for our marriage. And for me, of course. It is especially important to me for the people of the church not to turn their backs on H, because if I am able to save the marriage, I don't want the church divided and torn up because of this. As I say, I have asked the prayer support of many of the church leaders who are men. I can still go to those men and ask them as a group to go to H (that's biblical) and confront him about his sin. However, H is not very religious as a whole. He is seriously turned off by what he considers "religious fanaticism." I know him well enough to know he would never go to church again if this happened. And if we are to recover our marriage, we can't do it without the church. Also, both our mothers go there, and as I said, both mothers are in poor health and I don't think they can withstand the awful hurt this would do to them. His mom is already suffering from depression and has more bad days than good. I believe it best not to expose to them unless he leaves me - or I go to plan B. Then the choice would no longer be mine.

Starz: I've read this thread twice today and wanted to say something. But I'm not really sure what it is. My W & I too are from a small area. We used to go to our local church that is/was quite small. Avg attendance is now probably about 15-20. So I think I know what you're trying to say about their attitude. It is so hard to overcome. Alot of people around here won't go to any church because so many church goers have the holier than thou attitude (at least that's what I call it). Use your best judgement and if you do call Harley or Penni, be sure to ask for their input in that area.

One concern I do have would be about your Mom & MIL finding out about your H's A through someone else. Is that a possibility? How will they handle that coming from someone other than you? You have to do what you think is right, but it doesn't hurt to get opinions here. Good luck and God Bless.

RH

starz quit focusing on the church and exposure right now...

this is becoming about your own BS fog...

where the known...even if the known is disrepectful continued contact behavior...as some how being less frightening than you opting out of this chaos....

this is becoming all about you....not him or the OP..

plan a is not indefinite...
plan a is called thusly because there is a plan b....

please don't avoid the plan b option...
hash it out here...

ark

Thanks, everyone. I am going to contact SH today and see what he says. I don't know exactly how to go about this, but I will try. Do I need to ask H if he is willing to talk to him? How do I handle this? Should I just do the first session with just me? Will SH let me know?

Starz....

I just replied to you on my post.....now here I am on yours.

I would talk to SH alone. Your situation is becoming too painful for you. You know your WH and OW are talking badly about you. You should not have to go thru that pain.

That's what Plan B is for. Do it well (not like me - I let WH back too soon, that why we are still having so many difficulties).

Talk to someone in you church who will help YOU. It also helps to have some where you can vent (like here), because everybody needs to vent!!!

But...talk to SH alone. Your WH will probably refuse anyway.

K

Thanks, k2.

Starz - It seems you've gotten some great advice already...if I would add to it, it would be this - I too understand not wanting to expose to the Moms and to your church...I also understand not wanting to contact OWH if he is an abuser, but as has already been said - what if the Moms hear it from someone else - in my situation, if my Mom knew, she'd probably dis-own my H, and although she'd tolerate him for my & kids sake, she'd never "care" about him - as for H's parents, they wouldn't believe it if they walked in and caught him with another woman. As for exposing to the church - mine is small too, and my suggestion would be to continue to ask for prayer, but on the "QT" - too many times, in a small church atmosphere, too much focus is put on "why" pray rather than "pray" and the issue to be prayed for becomes the gossip rather than a need.

As for the OWH - she is in the wrong - that would not excuse abuse from him, but that is her bed to lie in - she is the one cheating on her H - if she is that unhappy, and/or he is that abusive, then she should have left at the first signs, and found someone to move on with that was not married.

If it were me, I'd want to talk to a professional first, then, depending on their advice, I'd likely contact OWH with hard physical evidence, of course realizing that my own H would be mad enough to leave, at least for the interim...IF OWH is abusive, it's likely she will want to reassure him about their marriage, and would most likely cool things with your H...if she does not, and she were to seek shelter with a state agency, for abused spouses, they would probably help keep your H away, however, this would require you to contact them and expose to them - informing that yes, you believe her H is abusive, and as long as she continues to see your H, her own H will continue to be abusive.

As for the situation with your H, OF COURSE they are saying bad things about you - how else can he feel good about himself to continue with the affair? After all, here you are telling him you know, yet you're being nice as pie to boot! That is incomprehensible to most wayward persons, especially while they are in the fog - it'd be much easier if you were mean to him, then he'd have grounds to leave, or he'd be "reaping what he's sowed"...as it is, you are showing that Christ-like love that forgives and doesn't hold a grudge, no matter what is being done to you.

While I realize it would be difficult on your own, and oh-so-lonely, I'd have to go with the others, that plan a has to end at some time - is that time now? I don't think anybody but you can answer that...as you said, it's only been 6 weeks since you've exposed, so does that mean that the months of plan a you've been doing prior is really a "valid" plan a? Not sure - yes, but in a way, no...H didn't know why you were being nice to him - he thought he was doing a great job cake eating, it's only been within the last few weeks that he realizes he wasn't that cool.

Question - as for the company mail box - can you not go to his employer, maybe even as an anonymous source, and tell them they should keep a closer watch on that box? Also, not sure here, but I know that going into someone else's mailbox at their house is a Fed offense, even if it's as innocent as leaving them something to keep it out of the weather until they return home, is it the same with a PO Box? Wouldn't she be liable for entering a business mailbox for a company she doesn't work for?

2nd Question - are you prepared, financially AND mentally, to be in plan b?

I agree it is not fair or right that they are being hurtful to you, but what is fair and/or right in any of our situations?

Many prayers for you right now - for your strength, and especially for wisdom to know what step(s) to take next. {{{{{Starz}}}}}