I'm 6 wks post d-day w/ my WH who is still seeing his the OW - he fessed up to me last week (w/out me asking) about 3 other affairs that were physical only -- since the initial d-day i've been wanting to fix us - he has not been willing to give up OW - then when he told me about his other 3 affairs I still am not convinced I'm through w/ us. So - we've pretty much just been co-existing in the same house - w/ him leaving pretty much every weekend to see OW - this kills me -- I asked him the other night to leave the house at night (he works from home so i was willing to allow him to keep his home office for now - I just wanted him to leave the house before I got home), also told him i wanted to put the house on the market because it seemed clear to me where we were headed and the house holds bad memories anyway so we both want to get rid of it regardless of what happens...he agreed to these requests. so - anyway - I get home from work last night and he informs me that he's decided he isn't moving out - he doesn't want to -- so I freak out - so I get to have his relationship w/ the OW tossed in my face every day while he still talks to her and every weekend while he runs off to see her??? Then the conversation turns to us (which was something we really haven't been able to talk about since all this happened) -- he told me what he was lacking in our relationship -- and I totally "get it" - the intamicy/sex issue - they way I responded to him (never really excited about it, made it seem like a chore, never really initiated) made him feel like less of a man and really really bad about himself -- and I totally get that now... and we've had these conversations in the past but i really don't think i ever grasped it - and, of course, he wasn't the perfect husband - it was so often that i felt like i came 2nd, 3rd or 4th to him - he had other interests which i always encouraged - i never wanted to be the kind of wife that told her husband what he was "allowed" to do - i wanted him to be w/ me because he wanted to be w/ me - not because I told him he had to be... and it was just little things, little considerations I needed to feel like he thought about and loved me -- some of which he did every now and then - text messages on my phone to say he loves me, nice notes in cards, making dinner during the week w/out me asking, etc.... but it seemed to me, especially in the last year or so that I didn't matter - i really felt like i could've left him and he wouldn't have noticed until the laundry started piling up or he got hungry... so we had this viscious circle of me not having my needs met so i wasn't going to meet his physcial needs and visa versa (not sure of the spelling on that)... so, he tells me, this is why he can't leave OW - that he doesn't see that relationship going anywhere but even just one more month of feeling the way he feels w/ her is worth it to him (which KILLS me) There were tons of tears -- he started sobbing when i told him that i still loved him and that I guess i had to let him go - he insists he still doesn't know what he wants -- that maybe things may work out between us -- and oh how I hold onto that -- my thing is that i really want to see if we can fix us before we just ditch us -- and he just keeps saying he can't commit to fixing us yet - he fears that we'll fall into the same pattern and 5 years down the road will have these very same issues and end up divorcing - i'm going to a therapist to deal w/ my issues - and quite honestly don't think i realized how much i love him until this all happened... we're going to a marriage counseling session tonight together but this will probably be the last one - we had also been seeing this counselor individually but he is going to stop seeing him but did say he was going to find someone else to talk to to deal w/ his own issues -- i also don't see the need to continue w/ this counselor and will probably just go to a therapist for my intamicy issues i've been referred to... so - anyway, after all this rambling, i guess my question is now what? He tells me how amazing I am, what a great person i am, how attracted he is to me, how beautiful I am and how he hates the thought that once i get my intamicy issues figured out that the next man is going to have this amazing woman... I do not for the life of me understand how if he truly believed that he couldn't just stop seeing OW and focus on us??? I still love him... he keeps saying he wishes i hated him... we both have agreed to not file for divorce yet -- But I don't know what to do now. I really can't stay in that house and witness his relationship w/ OW, the relationship and attention that i would KILL to have -- so do i move out? (i'm not even sure if i can afford to) I'm still not convinced were over - i'm still so sure that if we fought for us we would have the most amazing marriage... any guidance or insight would be greatly appreciated -- i apololgize for the rambling - i had quite a night last night though...

Do not move out.

Do not make him move out. Not yet.

Do not TRY to make him do anything.

Meet whatever ENs of his that you can and compete with OW. For now. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">so I get to have his relationship w/ the OW tossed in my face every day while he still talks to her and every weekend while he runs off to see her??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For now, yes. In the meantime, he needs to feel some consequences, so expose the affair, especially to OW's H if she's married. Next, expose to his close friends and family.

Keep reading here and learning.

Plan A, Plan A, Plan A.

He's exposed himself - he told his family and some close friends. OW is not married. So, basically you suggest I "hang in" for now. I'm not doing well at home w/ him when I know he is talking to and still seeing her. I've been very civil through this whole thing - very patient - only a couple "freak out" moments. How do I shut off my emotions and not let how I feel physically affect me -- I don't sleep too well (though its been better) and my appetite isn't really all it should be (though, that too is improving finally after losing 15 lbs.)

the great affair diet plan. Works wonders for many. I myself lost 50#- 15 more then I should have. ANyway not the point, start eating now before your health starts to fail.

What did H's family say about the OW? Friends???

Why does he live at home with you but go see her on the weekends? THat is just so not right. Typical cake eater, but still not right.

His family I think is pretty much telling him, end it w/ OW and see if you can fix the marriage - who knows what his friends are saying.. I know at least one is saying the same as his family. But in his words "if forced to decide now, then the marriage is over"... ouch... we went to MC together tonight for the first (and last) time -- was good in that we said some things to help each other understand how we are feeling but he has the same mantra - i can't give up OW, he can't give up the feeling w/ her -- and in talking to him more after, he has in the back of his mind that we will get back together but not just yet - that maybe we should separate so he can figure out his own issues (as he does admit he has some issues) I have no idea where to go from here - I've been so patient - I still love him so much -- but am really starting to feel like a doormat... why am I so weak??? I asked him to leave but he won't - gee thanks... so now i'm thinking i should go but don't think i can afford it... ugh... what am i supposed to do????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillprocessing:
<strong> - the intimacy/sex issue - they way I responded to him (never really excited about it, made it seem like a chore, never really initiated) made him feel like less of a man and really really bad about himself -- and I totally get that now... and we've had these conversations in the past but i really don't think i ever grasped it - and, of course, he wasn't the perfect husband - it was so often that i felt like i came 2nd, 3rd or 4th to him - </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">5 yrs ago, I had an affair. What I've quoted above describes the scenario to a tee. Or is that 'tea'? Whatever. What I'm trying to get at is that this intimacy thing can be a pretty big thing for a guy. And it goes way deeper than just 'gittin some'.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that the main attraction towards OW is that she is attracted to him and it's that pushing the fog buttons more than anything else.

Wanna keep him? My advice, which is worth what it cost you, is to compete with OW. You know more of his weaknesses and knee-jellyfiers than she does so that gives you a huge advantage. And as you fill those needs, the attraction to OW will crumble.

Now is the time to really read up on Plan A.

dewt

dewt -- thanks for your response - what was your outcome? I think your "bottom dollar" bet is right on. The thought of having to compete w/ that low class, no moral whore kills me though. I have the one book that has Plan A/B in it (and for the life of me can't recall which one) but it doesn't really go into great detail -- where's the best place to read up on plan A?

Also - in speaking w/ my husband a little more last night I asked if maybe he would like to talk to others that have been in similar situations as him (the "fog")-- did you have a similar experience (unable to give OW up??) and would you be willing to talk to him via e-mail? He admits to feeling so screwed up and mad at himself for being unable to give her up - I realize no one can make him do anything but I think it may help him to just run though his thoughts w/ someone who understands - cause I certainly don't.

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: stillprocessing ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillprocessing:
<strong> dewt -- thanks for your response - what was your outcome? I think your "bottom dollar" bet is right on. The thought of having to compete w/ that low class, no moral whore kills me though. I have the one book that has Plan A/B in it (and for the life of me can't recall which one) but it doesn't really go into great detail -- where's the best place to read up on plan A?

Also - in speaking w/ my husband a little more last night I asked if maybe he would like to talk to others that have been in similar situations as him (the "fog")-- did you have a similar experience (unable to give OW up??) and would you be willing to talk to him via e-mail? He admits to feeling so screwed up and mad at himself for being unable to give her up - I realize no one can make him do anything but I think it may help him to just run though his thoughts w/ someone who understands - cause I certainly don't. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your story is textbook. hang in there, if you want your husband back he will eventually come back. THEY ALL DO THIS. Please realize this. Very few, IF ANY. affairs last. You will get your chance to have your husband back. Just remmeber that. That hopefully will "soothe" the "doormat" feelings and self degrading feelings you are experiencing. If you want your marriage, you just have to stick it out and let the affair die a natural death. If you read these boards you will see that even after such dire circumstances (i.e abuse, financial ruin, another child being born, etc..) the wayward spouse makes their way back to the OP, and you will get a chance to "win" your WH back. Just remember all that as you go through all of this. Good luck.

Despite his words that you would make a great W for the next man in your life, he probably doesn't beleive that you will ever leave him and he's probably right unless you start to live your life independently of him [like he has] by doing things that you love to do. Now this is not to say that you should go out and have an affair of your own [that would be wrong, self destructive and stupid] but if you expand your circle of friends to include men [with boundaries of course], I'd be willing to bet that your WH would get a wakeup call that you don't need him and that there are plenty of men out there that would jump at the chance to have a woman like you as their W. Chances are that your WH is like many WS that beleive that an extra-marital relationship is his exclusive right or entitlement [go figure <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ] and if he starts suspecting that there might be another man in your life [even though there is not], don't be surprised if there is a sudden change in his attitude and willingness to accomodate your wishes. Emotional independence or detachment is the key to achieving this so please read Dr Robert Huizenga's 7 Powerful Tactics to Break Free From The Affair and Stop it NOW!; 12 Unattractive, Ugly, Typical Tact...he Affair and Guarantee Their Own Misery; and Michelle Weiner Davis's Divorce Busting 180 Degree List for ways to achieve this emotional independence. No amount of words on your part will convince your WH about your changes, but your actions certainly will.

lemonman - thanks for the confirmation that this is "normal" behavior - at this point i feel like i'm living in an episode of the twilight zone... I will try to remember what you said - I'm slowly getting my brain in gear to take care of me while still Plan "A"ing - at least I think so.

Toomuchcoffeeman - thank you too-- i am slowly getting myself in that "independent" mode - and its funny, each time I tell him we need to do something that separates "us" (i.e. sell the house and telling him i'm looking for apartments closer to the city), he back pedals - just last night he said how about we hold off on selling the house, this is our first "real" home and he'd hate to lose it - that i shouldn't have to leave my home) so should i slow down my efforts to get him out of the house at night (still letting him work from home) or not? i'm starting to make plans w/ friends for myself and set up my appointment w/ my own therapist to deal w/ my own issues... makes me feel better to do stuff for me - you are right -- i will continue that mode. You are so right about words not mattering! Thank you!!

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: stillprocessing ]</small>

2 years ago my H was following the same pattern as yours- coming home late, spending weekends with the OW. I spent many a weekend on this forum, getting support on how to make it.

I worked on MY PLAN A as outlined here. It was extremely difficult and hard work but it was well worth it. My FWH and I are happier now than ever before.

I can't promise you an outcome like mine. However, I truly believe that using the MB's approach gives you the best chance of bettering yourself and reconciling your marriage.

Read WAT'S GUIDELINES which you can find under his post. Believe them and follow them to the letter.

Bless you. You are in the twilight zone .....

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

I hope my bottom dollar bet is right on... it's my last dollar...

As for my outcome... well, er... that's kind of a long story... but to sum it up (within this context) after telling my Wife about my affair, things kind of kick started to good. She was much more attentive while she was (I guess) trying to 'reclaim me' and I tried very hard to meet some of her needs. Along the way, we both slipped things have... er... well... I guess you could say deteriorated over the past year. She had an last winter affair and we spent 6 months separated. Now we are living together, but she is still not committed to restoring or building 1our marriage, although I still have hopes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillprocessing:
<strong>The thought of having to compete w/ that low class, no moral whore kills me though. I have the one book that has Plan A/B in it (and for the life of me can't recall which one) but it doesn't really go into great detail -- where's the best place to read up on plan A? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you can find more on Plan A here on the site than you can in the book. (Surviving an Affair) BTW, I wouldn't think of it so much as competing as stepping up to the plate and giving your Husband a good reason to re-evalute his (misguided) reasons for having a mistress. Also, you won't be working on the 'no class, no morals' field... which gives you a further advantage. Anyway, I bet you could come up with a few ideas that would blow hubby's mind... stuff OW would NEVER think of... heheheheheh... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Seriously, get to work on making your Husband feel desired and desirable again. I know that is a toughy considering his current actions...

If your man wants to email, that would be absolutely fine with me. My email is dewt2003@hotmail.com He could also feel free to come and post here, though some of the replies might be a little on the harsh side. Whatever he's comfortable with.

Once the affair was uncovered, I had no probs giving up OW. I liked OW just fine, but in now way shape or form did I have 'romantic' feelings for her. Before discovery, I tried repeatedly, on my own, to end it. The pull of her seductions was a little too strong for my willpower to handle alone.

Is he in love with OW? Or is this 'just a sex thing'?

dewt

Oh yeah...

Here a few links that might help you out some:

Plan A

Very informative General Wecome For New MBers

ttfn,

dewt

dewt - well, loaded question there re: whether he is in love w/ OW or is it a "sex" thing -- I think it is a "sex" thing that makes him love how he feels when he's w/ her -- I found a note she wrote him saying how much she misses him and loves him more than he knows (gag) so I, of course, ask him if he feels that way about her - he said that he has told her that he loves her - but, again, I think its a combination thing (at least that is what I'm telling myself at the moment - does that make any sense??) And he really has zero will power - never has - always very compulsive, wants instant satisfaction no matter what the costs (used to really only relate to buying things...) so - I dunno -- he continues to refer to his behavior as destructive, and says he is completely depressed and thinking totally illogically --

"get to work making my husband feel desirable"?? you are right, that is a toughie - any ideas/tips/pointers on that? thanks for the links too!

Not to disagree. It doesn't matter at this point whether it is a SEX THING or a LOVE THING. In in an A, these issues get confused.

Take a look at my post before DEWT'S on this thread. It's important not to get too caught up in what he is saying. He is in a FOG. He is temporarily insane at this point. It is your job to become the rational one in the marriage. Focus on your PLAN A. What are his PRIMARY ENS???

mimi - thanks -- that is what i needed to hear -- i definitely feel like i'm dealing w/ a crazy person -- the other night he went from yelling at me to sobbing hysterically to the point where he had to sit down before he fell over -- his needs are physical/intamicy -- neither of which i fulfilled but fully intend to if we work this out -- i never realized how crappy it made him feel -- any pointers on how to move forward from here??? thank you all so much for your input - it is helping so much.

Are you saying that he needs Sexual Fulfillment and Affection? Read about the MB Emotional Needs. Why do you think these are his Major Needs? How come you were not fulfilling these needs? Your job will be to set up a PLAN to begin meeting these needs RIGHT NOW. That will be essential in order to work this out. WAITING to work this out before you begin meeting his needs is not an option for you.

Understand? I'm wanting to learn more information about his EMOTIONAL NEEDS. This was essential for me as I developed MY PLAN to rebuild our marriage.

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillprocessing:
<strong>"get to work making my husband feel desirable"?? you are right, that is a toughie - any ideas/tips/pointers on that?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, you know him better than I do... and I'll bet it's easier than you think. You mentioned that you two had talked about this in the past.

dewt

mimi - yes, he needs sexual fulfillment and affection... we've talked about it in the past - that is how I know... I hadn't fulfilled those needs in the past because of my own "issues" - was never comforable w/ my sexuality, the way I was raised (the only thing I knew about sex was don't have it until you're married), my parents weren't a very touch, affectionate couple... so, yes, I have issues - I would always tell him I'd try harder but couldn't -- I'm now going to see a sex therapist to help me deal w/ these issues, and told my H I was going to deal w/ it regardless of what happened w/ us... so, you say, meet those needs RIGHT NOW?? how? seduce him? that seems bizarre since he is currently having those needs met elsewhere (but only on the weekends - whore lives too far away)... need some help here. Though that thought has crossed my mind I thought it would be a bad idea - for one I'm petrified he'd reject me... is this what I need to do?? please be blunt cause I'm a little confused right now...

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: stillprocessing ]</small>

What has worked for you in the past in regards to attracting him and for you to feel comfortable with your sexuality?

What attracted him to you initially?

I once heard a sex therapist say in a lecture that couples often forget their original DANCE STEPS.

We will try to figure this out.

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>