I know I keep listenting to what he says -- I know I shouldn't -- I'm still trying to figure him out for some stupid reason.... I just see so little hope for him snapping out of it.. but yes, you're right - I will probably have to do a plan B... how long do you think for plan A? or can't you tell... i'm trying to do 1 day at a time -- and guess i'll see what happens when/if he returns next week...

of course i don't want OW to "win"... that kills me... in the end i know she won't - he won't stay w/ her - i so wish he stuck to what he "decided" on thursday... he's too weak though and said that he needs the affair to "run its course" that he tried to stop it too soon -- what does that mean? the affair to run its course??

I'll try to get myself busy at home - during the week it isn't a problem w/ my work schedule, etc... I need to start training the 2 puppies... I'll be at my dad's house (and will be breaking the news to him) for Thanksgiving so that will be good -- day at a time....

I was thinking that I really need to get out of that house and just let him stay there by himself (except for when OW is there) -- I was thinking it may be good for me and for him if I move out, closer to work and friends, and get my own apartment... let him stay in the house alone surrounded by "us"... but I guess that's plan B?

Good Morning, Still:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he's too weak though and said that he needs the affair to "run its course" that he tried to stop it too soon -- what does that mean? the affair to run its course??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know I'm beginning to sound like a broken record. However, here I go again. This is all part of the WS SCRIPT. My FWH said the exact same thing. This is due to the addiction that I have been trying to help you to understand. He is trying to wean himself off the drug instead of going cold turkey. He is at a point that he is able to acknowledge to himself that he is out of control. However, it continues to feel good to him to be involved with her; he has not suffered enough pain for his actions. He is crying and sobbing because he feels out of control. However, he has not suffered enough. The pleasure that he is feeling in the relationship continues to outweigh the pain. Do you get this? It is an addiction. You cannot talk him out of this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> was thinking that I really need to get out of that house and just let him stay there by himself (except for when OW is there) -- I was thinking it may be good for me and for him if I move out, closer to work and friends, and get my own apartment... let him stay in the house alone surrounded by "us"... but I guess that's plan B? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like you are making it easy for him and easy for yourself. Strategize about what is best to win this fight for your marriage. Strategize about what will make him suffer during PLAN B. He needs to suffer the consequences of his actions. My FWH had to leave his very, very nice house and live with the OW in the ghetto. This is a war, STILL. You have to strategize and prepare for each battle. You can either surrender or you can fight. It's your choice. For me, it was worth it to be together again with my teammate for life.

I'm also in this trying to help you become a stronger woman.

Still,

I don't have any advice to give you just my prayers and support. My WH left our home the beginning of Oct. His reasons were to clear his head, stop hurting me, focus on what really mattered and to stop contact with OW. But I knew he left just to pursue his addiction more.

I also hear the fogged up statements you hear. Almost exact words. I also sit down and try to understand them and can't. I know they are just words to justify his addiction. He doesn't even care that I am 9 months pregnant and my due date is this week. Right now his only care is himself and OW. I know there is nothing I can do or say that will make him come back or snap out of it. He has to choose. The more I push he feels forced and goes to OW even more.

This week I just want to focus on relaxing, spending Thanksgiving with my kids and family and removing myself from my WH chaos. I hope you find some peace. I understand how hard this is. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Mimi,
Your advice and comments are helping me so much. Even though they are not for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He just keeps saying he can't keep hurting me, shouldn't be near me because all he does is hurt me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's all scripted. The exact same words came out of my FWH's mouth. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mine too. It is scripted.

J

Someone needs to find the master copy of this WH "script" and burn it!!!! I'm so sick of hearing the babble from him...

Mimi - hmmmm... well I'm grasping the addiction thing a bit better -- his inability to go "cold turkey" makes sense... not sure that he is even weaning though... the pleasure definitely still outweighs the pain - he is with her most of the time (i'm still not sure how he isn't going to lose his job through this) I do know I can't talk him out of this. I told him yesterday that it seems he has made his choice so why the tears? Should I have not said that??? My brother said to him that I hope you know what you're doing... his response was "i don't" boo hoo -- oops, again, i'm listening to what he's saying... sorry.

you're right - my idea to get out of the house and let him stay there would be much easier for him... and easier for me.... I need to do some thinking on what would make him suffer the most during Plan B... its hard though because he is such an alien being... the only thing that he seems to care about is being w/ OW... i'll have to put some thought into that.

Forever - wow, I can't even imagine what you are going through... this is hard enough for me - I can't imagine being 9 months pregnant. I send prayers and support right back to you. I also hope to relax and get my strength back up this week since I know I won't be seeing WH. Its good you have family for support. I am lucky in that as well. It helps so much.

I'm wanting you to put up a fight, strategize, don't give in to him.

Alot of it boils down to acceptance of the way it is right now. Yes, he is addicted to the OW. Yes he wants to be with her all of the time. Yes it is very self-destructive. He is powerlessness over his addiction and so are you. He has to hit rock bottom, maybe even lose his job before he sees the light. He needs to feel the pain. Do not make it easy for him.

I also found this hard to accept and comprehend, too. We, as the Betrayed, are also caught up in this evil web. I was encouraged to go into battle here and fignt and it was well worth it to me. It's your choice, Still....

Its so hard to get to that acceptance point -- I struggle so much still with the fact that all this is happening.

I've wanted to fight all along - I think the events of late last week really threw me. Is it normal for that to happen?? I mean, I guess it is - for him to say he will go NC but then not be able to.... but doesn't it last more than 12 hours??? I just feel so unbalanced now - I never know what to expect one minute to the next -- and I know that is part of this whole ordeal...

I want him to feel the pain -- I definitely don't want to make it easy for him -- I've certainly felt enough pain.... I just don't know how??? or do I???

If he comes home next week and as he said he would sleep elsewhere at night cause he doesn't want to be near me to keep hurting me -- do i just let him go??

I don't know how many times I have heard my WH say he was finally going to do NC. It usually lasted a few hours then he was back to doing it again. He went to her house 3 times this year saying he wanted to tell her goodbye in person becaue he felt like he owed her that much. Whatever. And he owes me nothing I guess.

Last time he went down was Halloween weekend. He told his sister he was telling her goodbye because he knew it wasn't right. I told his sister even if he went there with the intentions of telling her goodbye that it wouldn't happen because he would get his high from his addiction and come back more withdrawn. Well he came back home that night. Said he was moving back home, wanted to go to MC again and was not going to be calling her anymore. That lasted 1 day then it was back to I want a divorce and that he never said those things the night before.

So what you are going through with your husband is very typical WH behavior.

Sometimes it's hard for me to accept his behavior because I know the kind of guy he was. And I know he has to find the path himself to come back. If not then he will continue fence sitting if forced and I will continue to go through this crap everyday.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillprocessing:
<strong>If he comes home next week and as he said he would sleep elsewhere at night cause he doesn't want to be near me to keep hurting me -- do i just let him go?? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just smilingly tell him that it's not him being near you that's hurting you. It's the fact that he's having an affair that's hurting you. Tell him you'd love to have him in your (say 'our') bed but if he's not comfy with that, it's ok. Smile, then lightly change the subject.

J

Forever -- how long have you been dealing w/ the contact w/ OW?? Its been 2 months since I found out and he has since been to see OW pretty much everyweekend. You're right - the only way WH will find their way back is on their own. As my WH was crying and apologizing for telling me he wanted to fix it then not being able to, he kept saying "I just wanted to do the right thing" I said well - you can't do it unless you want to do it. Clearly -- he's not there yet... who knows if he'll ever be "there". I feel like I can't give up the fight just yet though. But am still planning my next course of attack.

Dewt - I'll try that... he may very well not be going anywhere -- he is constantly saying stuff he's going to do and then never does it. But - he's w/ OW pretty much this entire week so he'll be "affected" by his addicted fog. ugh...

Good Morning, Still:

It's me again here with my broken record, trying to help you understand the addiction.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">for him to say he will go NC but then not be able to.... but doesn't it last more than 12 hours??? I </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Still, do you know any alcoholics? Have you seen any movies with alcoholics? You can't expect them to easily give up drinking without total abstinence. I'm wanting it to NOT SURPRISE YOU for it not to last if he has opportunity to taste the alcohol again. She got to him when he went and had the private phone call with her. Remember when you said, he asked for his privacy? That was like going to take another drink. What I am saying is, this is more logical than you think it is. I think you can understand this and begin to strategize. You are the sane one here. I'm wanting you to have more confidence in yourself.

Hi Mimi -- actually WH father is an alcoholic -- there was a bad episode at home and he said he was going to stop drinking "hard" alcohol -- was only going to dring beer and wine... as if that makes a difference... needless to say, he was back to hard alcohol w/in a month.

I can understand it being an addiction, I can understand my WH's inability to have the strength to resist it -- I don't know if he'll ever have the strength though. It seems he's waiting for the time when he has had enough of her - like when he said the A needs to "run its course". How do I strategize to battle that mind set? I told him the night he went NC that it was going to be hard but to just take a day at a time and focus on us and as time went on it would get easier. But, of course, I was talking to foggy boy.

I suppose my confidence really took a shot last week. I know I need to re-build that regardless. I guess my problem now is that I feel like I'm waiting to see what his mind set is when he comes home finally -- but I can't do that -- I need to know what I'm doing. Right? So - what am I doing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

STILL:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess my problem now is that I feel like I'm waiting to see what his mind set is when he comes home finally -- but I can't do that -- I need to know what I'm doing. Right? So - what am I doing? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BEAT YOURSELF OVER THE HEAD FOR SAYING THIS!! Didn't you say you understood addiction? Didn't you call him foggy brain. You know what his mindset will be. Why does it matter? Your job is to put YOUR PLAN INTO ACTION REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER HE DOES OR SAYS!!!!

You will continue with your PLAN A for now. You will allow him into your bed. You will tell him that you love him and want him to stop having an A,you will not agree to sell your house, you will not agree to move out of the house, etc.

I beat myself over the head for you... it doesn't matter what he says or does... I'm going to do what I want to do!!!

Will continue w/ Plan A... I'm glad I've got the rest of the week to get some strength back.

Mimi - not doing well today - not sure why though. Haven't talked to WH since I saw him on Sunday. He has not tried to contact me at all while he's been w/ OW this entire week. I wrote in my journal last night for the first time in a couple weeks. I fear I've come to the conclusion that there is nothing I can do now except go to Plan B.

I feel like he has completely disrespected me. I had asked him to not have our dogs around OW (may seem strange but to me it was just a further intrusion of her into what was once "our" life), well he's up there this week w/ 2 of our dogs. As I was writing in my journal it was becoming clear to me that I'm starting to not really like him very much. His treatment of me over the past 2 months has been horrible - and I understand I am dealing w/ a foggy mind and an addiction - but I fear I'm starting to lose respect for myself. He has been home for a total of 2 days over the past 2 weeks. How can I plan A when he isn't even around or talking to me? Whenever I have had contact w/ him (except for a couple times) I've been calm and pleasant.

I just feel like my WH needs a kick in the a** to really understand the consequences. He is a weak willed person and will not be able to stop this affair w/out suffering in some other manner. He is content now because he knows I'm stuck out in our house in the middle of nowhere, there is little chance of me getting out socially (not that that's a goal of mine) -- he knows where I am pretty much all the time.

I would still really love for us to try to work things out. But as things are now - i feel like i'm losing myself as he continues to treat me like crap. I do love him. I want to spend the rest of my life with him.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for here Mimi but after writing 5 pages in my journal and seeing the anger that I'm starting to feel towards him and even towards myself for subjecting myself to him - I feel like I need a new path. I know I'm discouraged and I know results aren't supposed to happen overnight but.... I don't even know what more to say.

<small>[ November 24, 2004, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: stillprocessing ]</small>

Sounds like to me you might need to think towards PLAN B to guard your love for him. I was told that it's like putting your love in for him in a safe place on hold until he gets out of this.

It probably would help for you to start reading up on PLAN B and thinking about what your specific conditions would be for him to return. These conditions would of course be a NC LETTER and his evidence of a PLAN to have NC with her ever again in his life.

PLAN B starts with a LOVE LETTER in which you spell out these conditions. It will be his ROAD MAP back home. My FWH really referred to his PLAN B letter in conversations with me so what you say in the letter is really important. I didn't post my letter here because it was too personal and revealing about our identities. However a lot of folks do post their letters here for review. You might think about whether you want to do that.

Look at this as an option and then rethink your decision based on how he acts when he comes home. You want to have the most effective PLAN A for PLAN B to be effective. You want him to remember you positively once you GO COMPLETELY DARK ON HIM IN PLAN B.

<small>[ November 24, 2004, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

I'm really not much of a Plan B advocate...

But I think I might back Mimi on this one.

Perhaps it is time to put something in place to protect your feelings for him.

There is also the possibility that it will shock him into wakefulness, but I wouldn't count on it. There's a chance he might rebel with stubbornness.

Bottom line, if you go to Plan B, do it for you.

J

I had put my WH in touch w/ someone who had been in his position - ie fence sitting -- he sent this e-mail to her on Monday:

"It just gets worse. I guess I tried to rush a decision to fix things with [my wife] when in my heart I couldnt be there. I really only realized that after I told her that I would try. It was the hardest thing to have to say again that my heart just wasnt in it, and I couldnt do it.

Im not sure at what point the feelings had changed. I do know that they were never the strong burning feelings that you sometimes have. It was more a steady small fire that just kept burning. Not like the intense blaze.

I think that mixed with the later is what has done it.

I do feel so horrible, and I know how much ive hurt [my wife]. At the time [OW] was also married, and we really didnt want to let anything, progress further than it had. So much for that idea.

........life is going to be very different."

I'm heartbroken.... now what?

<small>[ November 24, 2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: stillprocessing ]</small>

Hit your yourself over the head again!!!

Didn't we agree you weren't going to listen to him?

Didn't you say that you understood about the addiction?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillprocessing:
<strong>I do know that they were never the strong burning feelings that you sometimes have. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">STRAIGHT out of the book of WS.

Please don't listen to this stuff.

If you must, at least buy the book so that you can check these foggy sayings off as he says them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

J