I haven't written much at all in the last couple of months. But, FWW and I have moved to another state, started new jobs and moving ahead. It was hard to get her to move up here, but thank God she did. I've seen a huge change in her. She's warming up to me much more than she was. She's acting like she used to way back when we first got to know each other. The biggest part of the baggage seems to be mine. I did not think it would be that way, but that's the way it's played out. I try to let go of the A. and all the hell of the aftermath, but it is very tough.

I know that I must forgive, and just when I think I have, I'll be hurt or trigger and I'll have it there to hang on to. I hang onto it like a security blanket. I don't want to, I know it's not right, but something in me says, that I'll hang on to that so I'll never be hurt like that again. If I forgive totally and let my guard down she'll just hurt me again.

Any ideas or thoughts on all this?

Out!

For years, I forgave my H -- the swearing, bashing in a windshield, cracking my skull, breaking my arm...

When the A came to light, my H said to his mother, "It's all up to Kathy. She has to forgive me. I did terrible things, but they're in the past."

When you focus on forgiveness as what is needed to get past the A, you may fail to recognize that the person who needs to change is the person who broke the marriage vows. That's not you.

Harley has some material on "just compensation." Your W needs to be the person she failed to be when she had an A. By focusing on the present and the future, rather than the past, you are able to let the past fade and create a good marriage. By focusing on the hurt you received in the past and your inability to get over it, you shift the focus to you, and you are not where the problem lies. You may have failed to meet her ENs, BUT she had choices other than to have an A.

Focus on her behavior in the present in meeting your emotional needs and your behavior in the present in meeting her emotional needs. Forgiveness will come when you no longer suspect that your forgiveness is really your tolerance of her being unfaithful in the past and possibly again in the future.

Cherished

PS Our D-day was May 4, 2002, and the impact of the affair is still the dominant force in my life. My H's unwillingness to follow the MB program has brought us to the brink of separation. He tells me the problem is that I won't forgive him. That is a cop-out.

<small>[ November 10, 2004, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

rws.

I wonder if you can appreciate how difficult it is to give advice, especially spiritual, to a pastor? LOL. Especially from someone 'like' me, a spiritual infant.

My biggest concern about the MB program has always been that the focus on it and the marriage is entirely horizontal and internal. At no point is the direction ever pointed vertically. So, I'm gonna ask you something here, and it can be rhetorical if you'd like. How are you doing, and how specifically is your relationship with God right now? I'm guessing, it's probably still really distressed.

I've seen your struggle, and can only imagine the frustration of having this happen after devoting your life to God. Well, after all those sermons on bad things can happen to good people...it hits home. I'm at 11 months of recovery now, and not a day passes where the affair doesn't plague me. I just want you to know, it is not unusual. I try to find things in my day to thank God for though, and, it's generally not very tough.

I have thought about you, and wish you the best. More so than others, your marriage surviving this is important...the area of impact is so much broader than most people's lives. Hang in there.

Dear brother,

I have a good giggle for ya--some spiritual meat from your Jewish believer sister on the topic of forgiveness.

Forgiveness is often difficult, AND forgiveness works!

Most of the time, people think of forgiveness as something that someone who has done us wrong must ask of US. I disagree. My take is that you focus on offering forgiveness TO the person who has wronged you. To not forgive them is like stabbing yourself (continuing to suffer for what they did or didn't do to you) and expecting THEM to die! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Forgiveness is something you give to yourself--it's not something you do FOR someone else. Identify the situation to be forgiven and ask yourself: "Am I willing to waste my energy further on this matter?" If the answer is "No," then forgive.

Forgiveness is putting your imagination into ACTION. It dares you to believe in a better future, one that is based on the blessed possibility that your hurt will not be the final word. It challenges you to give up your destructive thoughts about the situation and to believe in the possibility of a better future. It builds confidence that you can survive the pain and grow from it.

Forgiveness is an internal matter. Forgiveness is a daily choice. Every day you may have to forgive again. You do not "have to" forgive AND there are going to be natural consequences even if you do forgive. Refusing to forgive by holding on to the hurt, resentment and betrayal can make your own life miserable. Holding onto that betrayal creates bitterness and lets the betrayer claim one more victim. Choose today to not give one more minute of YOUR life and YOUR love to the betrayer. I believe that to withhold forgiveness is to choose to continue to remain the victim. Remember, you always have choice.

When you forgive you do it for you, not for the other. The person you have never forgiven. . . owns you! How about an affair? Just because you choose to forgive, does not mean you have to stay in the relationship. That is only and always your choice, and it is a choice you make daily. The choice to forgive is only and always yours.

When you feel that forgiveness is necessary, do not forgive for "their" sake. Do it for yourself! It would be great if they would come to you and ask forgiveness but you must accept the fact that some people will never do that. That is their choice. They do not NEED to be forgiven. They did what they did and that is it - except for the consequences, which THEY must live with.

The hurts won't heal until you forgive! Recovery from wrongdoing that produces genuine forgiveness takes time. For some, it may take years. Don't rush it. It helps to focus your energy on the healing, not the hurt!

HEALTHY love relationships are not possible without forgiveness! You cannot have a loving and rewarding relationship with anyone else, much less yourself, if you continue to hold on to things that happened in the past. Regardless of the situation, make peace with past love partners, your parents, your children, your partner or anyone who you think may have "done you wrong." It's the only way to improve your chances of a "healthy" relationship with yourself or anyone else for that matter!

It is not possible to truly be present and available to a new relationship until you heal the hurt and upsets of the past. Embrace the hurts of the past, acknowledge them, and them release them as things you can not change.

Non-forgiveness keeps you in the struggle. Being willing to forgive can bring a sense of serenity and well-being. It lifts anxiety and delivers you from depression. It can enhance your self-esteem and give you hope.

Forgive and forget is a myth. You may never forget AND you can choose to forgive. As life goes on and you remember, then is the time to once again remember that you have already forgiven. Mentally forgive again if necessary, then move forward. When we allow it, time can dull the vividness of the memory of the hurt; the memory will fade.

Forgiveness is a creative act that changes us from prisoners of the past to liberated people at peace with our memories. It is not forgetfulness, but it involves accepting the promise that the future can be more than dwelling on memories of past injury.

There is no future in the past. You can never live in the present and create a new and exciting future for yourself and your love partner if you always stay stuck in the past.

If you are at war with others you cannot be at peace with yourself. You CAN let go. . . and forgive! It takes no strength to let go. . . only courage. Life either expands or contracts in direct proportion to your courage to forgive. Your choice to forgive or not to forgive either moves you closer to what you desire or further away from it. There is no middle ground. Change is constant.

Want peace of mind? Forgive. The same energy you use to hold on (to not forgive), is the same energy you need to create a new and exciting relationship TOGETHER; a relationship anchored in unconditional love.

Forgiveness helps you move forward. No one benefits from forgiveness more than the one who forgives!

Give yourself the gift of forgiveness. The very word forgiveness is built on the root word give. Forgiveness releases your partner and also releases you from being imprisoned by your own negative memories. It is not surrender, but a conscious decision to stop harboring resentment.

Forgiveness is the key to your own happiness. Forgiving someone else takes moral courage. It ends the illusion of separation, and its power can change misery into happiness in an instant. Forgiveness means choosing to let go, move on, and favor the positive.

Forgiveness is a form of love within the context of a personal crisis. To forgive is, in a sense, to love one's enemy. When forgiveness is given because you think you should, it no longer is forgiveness but an act of self- interest.

The act of forgiveness constitutes a mental bath, letting go of something that can only poison us within.

Forgiveness breaks the cycle of hatred, resentment, anger and pain that is often passed on to those around you.

* Note: . . . Forgiveness is the release of all hope for a better past. - Alexa Young


CJ

In all my training and years of experience in ministry, nowhere did I learn how to deal with an A. in my own marriage. How does one prepare for the ultimate betrayal? Forgiveness has always been fairly easy to exercise in my life, but then again no wrong of this magnitude has ever been done to me, not as a man, but as a lover, friend and beloved wife.

Many times I have sat across from a parishiner while they spilled thier hearts out over an A that their spouse had. They shared their hurt and pain, and I always said within myself, "My God, how can anyone handle this?" Well, now I know. It's been a nightmare. Every bit of faith I've ever had has been tested, but I'm glad to say that God has seen me and my wife through all of this.

I remember at the worst of things, just a few weeks after d-day while my wife was in withdrawal. I asked God what to do, and He spoke to my heart and said, resign the church, squelch any hurt that may come on the church and my family. Also, he said, lead, don't follow, and take your family where they can be healed. So, despite her opposition, (at first) I've moved the family away and had no jobs, or anything, but God is restoring us.

The thing I am still struggling with is finally laying all of it down and letting it go.

Thanks for all your input.

Out!

Hi
How does one prepare for the ultimate betrayal? Forgiveness has always been fairly easy to exercise in my life, but then again no wrong of this magnitude has ever been done to me, not as a man, but as a lover, friend and beloved wife.
I agree- and so as a human its very hard to forgive - we have to look to our Saviour who did know what the ultimate betrayal was like. He came to His ceation with love and as our friend and what did we do to GHim- and yet His prayer at the moment of death was "Father Forgive them" so should ours be to our spouses. Turn to Him and ask Him to fill your heart with forgiveness. I am 4 years into the loss of my H first through an A and then his decision to leave me. I still love him and through God's grace have forgiven him. He choses not to accept that forgiveness but that is his decision.

God never gave us a limit on what we had to be able to forgive- He simply told us to forgive and to go on forgiving.
May God bless you and fill you with His peace, love and forgiveness.
jante

RWS,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that I must forgive, and just when I think I have, I'll be hurt or trigger and I'll have it there to hang on to. I hang onto it like a security blanket. I don't want to, I know it's not right, but something in me says, that I'll hang on to that so I'll never be hurt like that again. If I forgive totally and let my guard down she'll just hurt me again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I too feel strange preaching to a preacher. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> However, I think in the comments I quoted you have the answer to your question. Please notice the part I put in quotes. It is your deepest fear and it would be mine as well.

However, you need to step back an realize something. Your deepest fear has ALREADY come to pass, and you survived, your faith survived, you led you family from where you were to where you are and they have survived. You dealt with the pain, you endured. So tell me again what it is you fear? You are forgetting that you are strong RWS. You may not feel it, but the data is very clear. You faced it, you made hard decisions, you led by example and your family survived.

Could it happen again? Yes! Will it happen again, perhaps, but I suspect not. Will you survive it, ABSOLUTELY. You may not like the pain of this, but RWS you have survived it.

Finally, the fact that you trigger does NOT mean you have not forgiven, or that you need to forgive again. It means you are hurt, the memories hurt you. Talk to your W about your triggers ask for support from her, so that you can outgrow the pain associated with the memories.

RWS, you actions have set you and your marriage on a new course. It seems it is a good one. Your faith carried you through this and it stands with you now. You really have little to fear because you KNOW you can withstand it. You surely would NOT want to go through it again but... you could if you so chose.

Have faith in yourself and realize that your W has and will see your strength even in the face of the triggers. The memories of these events will remain but the pain associated with the memories will fade, and I suspect they will be replaced with newer and better memories.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Rws,

I won’t even pretend to know what to say about forgiving someone for an A, since on this board I am one of the “forgivees” (word I made up to mean the person who needs forgiveness). LOL. I just want to say that you seem to be doing remarkably well.

It looks like your d-day was April, 2004. If that’s correct, I know that it feels like an eternity to you, but really it’s just a drop in the bucket of time it takes to recover. You’ve probably read here that it can take up to 5 years! The 6-month mark seems to be a common time for the BS’s anger to surface and cause him/her to review whether or not to forgive, or if he/she can forgive, or even wants to.

The fact that you are in tune to your feelings and are willing to continue to do whatever you have to do to save your M is quite a testament. I am extremely impressed by your sensitivity. Also, the fact that you WANT to forgive speaks volumes.

Don’t be too hard on yourself. Give yourself time to continue healing. The baggage isn’t all yours – this is a journey you and your W will have to walk together, with each partner being responsible to work on the M.

It’s perfectly understandable that you’re afraid to let down your guard. Remember that all you have to live is one minute at a time. It’s obvious that you are trying to do your best. Keep your eyes on the prize! You’re doing great.

God bless you and your W and kids,

Rose

Some of you have said you feel strange preaching to a preacher. Well, I am a man and a husband before I'm a preacher. And... in all my theological training and experience, no one ever prepared my for my wife and best friend betraying me.

I'm not asking so much advice on forgiveness. I know I have to forgive, but I'm asking for help from those who've gone through it and how they walked it out.

I talked with my wife last night and I told her that the Hebrew concept of the word forgiveness was a financial one. It had to do with someone who was owed a debt and "forgave" the debt to a person that could not pay it back. That is closer to the way I feel that the English or Americanized way we look at forgiveness. I have been done a great injustice and am owed a great deal for what was done to me and my family by my W. There is no way she could repay what it has cost me and the family. So, now, it is my obligation (out of love) to forgive this debt that she can never repay.

I don't know how that sounds but that feels much more like the truth than the way I had been perceiving it. Rather than me mustering up enough goodness or whatever in my heart to forgive her, this is like a decision that I've been done wrong, there is no payment that will make it go away. So, I'll forgive the debt. But, if it ever does happen again, I will take the kids and leave and never look back.

She can repay the debt through "just compensation", becoming the wife she promised to be when she promised to love and cherish you and you alone. She can do nothing about the past. The present and future, however, are where she can do something about the debt.

Here's a good link to Oswalds story about forgivness. It may be a help.

Oswalds Long Revovery

SS