mom:

I won't speak for committed here, but my own point was that there really is a bit more going on that we never hear, see, or feel in these threads that goes in2 a "decision" 2 do something like go 2 dinner or a concert or whatever (possibly including a race, for example).

committed: Though my dad wasn't there when my mom passed away, my sisters and I were, and though she couldn't speak, she made eye contact with each of us in 2rn in a meaningful way just seconds before she passed away. I will never forget that.

But, we were very for2nate. I cringe every time I think of those young soldiers dying in Iraq without their loved ones with them... ...only they are, really, in spirit. Especially now.

best 2 all,
-ol' 2long

Mom to 3 boys (or Dad as well):
(posting this here as well, as your attention is in many places)

I know you BOTH are swamped right now.
It must be just nuts, being pulled in so many direction.....& all at once.

My only request is that you guys Point out to us ANY of the things the Dr. Phil show "edits" out .....that we never get to see.

{Such as your comments about your Father that you posted earlier}.

It would help us here......as we all are wondering things like "why hasn't her Dad's situation been addressed at all?"

If you could continue to do that for us...........That would be super.

However, If its too much....I will completely understand.

Wishing you only success.
Hope all this attention pays off in the end!!!

momto3boys,

I am NOT judging you...I made comment. Not much unlike what I bolded that someone else has posted.

I did NOT post to you. I have not been on the Hollywood thread. This thread was started by someone other than you. I was as free to post MY opinion as the other poster was.

You aren't under persecution...
So, get off that cross, someone needs the wood. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (crediting another MB poster with that phrase).

2long,

I am glad that you were there for your dear Mother. The last eye contact speaks volumes without a word uttered.

I hope you are doing ok.

committed

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

committed:

Yeah, *I* need the wood! (we're still rebuilding 3 years, 1 month after the fire!)

I'm doing pretty well! As cerri said, I'm not treading water anymore, just walking on somewhat mushy ground.

Love the metaphors!

Tell hcii 2 give us an update on that 3-yr old! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

2long,

I will tell him when I see him on Thanksgiving Day.

I will be anxious to see what happens on Christmas Day at his house.

He is 43 years old and never had a kid's Christmas at his house. I do not think that he and his X ever had a Christmas tree in the 14 years they were married!

Can you say Mayhem!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

committed

c:

Knowing hcii the little that I do, the word I think I'd use is

FUN!!

definitely mayhem, though! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

Ok so I get crucified for wanting to go race yet all are ok with my wife going to Cher? Hey folks she could have skipped it. I told her to go if she needed to, she chose the concert. The racing is 6 days later and he is doing well today. But hey I get blasted. Another shocker for you all will come next week when Dr phil nails me on me having OW over to the house while my wife visits with her dying dad. Ouch. Well folks what she was not telling me or you was she was having romantic lunches with some lawyer after tending to dad. conveniently forgot to tell me about it. I saw the emails they were very romantic this guy wanted to step right in and she was giving him the right signals.This is after the X BF thing. all this with secret email acounts etc.. lets see I have a discussion and agree not to go race, she goes to cher, I get beat up. No objectivity here. She wants to post everything I say or do she does not like here. That is not productive. So lets get it all out now shall we? and let this all disintegrate.

<small>[ November 12, 2004, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: dadto3boys ]</small>

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Dr phil nails me on me having OW over to the house while my wife visits with her dying dad </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I don't understand this ...at all.

This seems like humor to you...or how hard you can rock the Mb world...I don't understand dad.

I can't make sense out of ANY of this anymore.

I'm throwing in the towel here.

I don't know what else to say to you guys.

My prayers and thoughts are with Mom..now and always..and I hope she finds happiness ..and peace..no matter what happens.

Dad--How DARE you compare a "romantic" lunch to your full blown AFFAIR, betrayal of your wife and family. YOu brought her home while Mom was gone to be with her dying dad? You are unbelievable. Mom is going to get it quite quickly here and you will be left with an incredible mess and NO one to blame it on but yourself.

Mom ASKED you for help--please come to SAT and bring the boys. Your answer was you didn't know if you were racing. All about YOU. She has been dealing with you fooling around, lying, betraying her, taking care of YOUR boys AND dealing with a very sick and dying dad. I think the Cher concert was WELL deserved.

You need some serious, serious, 2x4s.

dadto3boys,

You have been told by Dr. Phil that you are going to end up in a dead end, yet you still doing stupid thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . She is doing no better either but you can't stop what you are doing and save your M.

Would m23b would see anyone or thinking about it before D-day ?. I don't think so. You start this mess you should end it ... if you can't, you have no one to blame but yourself.

-rh-

Dad,

I know you hurt and are angry, but you should think about what you're really angry about. The situation you're in is not going to get any better by blame shifting or re-visiting the score card of who hurt who by doing what.

I know when my husband came home after his affair and fathering an OC, he was excessively angry ... and he took it out on me. He actually blamed me for him getting the OW pregnant because he said I wouldn't talk to him during his affair, so he had to talk to her.

Does that sound distorted or strange to you at all? I'm at fault for not talking to my husband while he's out screwing someone else, so the pregnancy was my responsibility?

His anger was misplaced, as is yours.

Jo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong> I posted this on the other thread:

Hi sweetie....just watched the show....you looked very pretty...kind of subdued, spent. Yes, you weren't the spitfire I've come to know and love on MB....but hey...YOU WERE ON TV!! knowing that millions would be watching...I'm sure I would have been like a deer caught in the headlights! [Eek!]

I think if I had heard Ed utter the word "torn" one more time, I might have torn his head off!

I think Dr.Phil had some important messages though. Among the many, I'd like to repeat these:

*Why give away your power? You have every right to take control of your own choices and decide what you will tolerate, but remember, what you tolerate will not change. Letting Ed choose you is not nearly as important at this point as you choosing to take control of your life instead of waiting for the next waffle.

*Ed will eventually end up just as "bored" with this OW as he has been with you. Pretty soon, there won't be sexy meetings...it'll be diapers and child rearing and all the same stuff he's running from now and he'll be just as bored and just as restless because he'll still have to live with his boring, selfish self....and she may not look nearly as good as you do after delivery. He might not understand the truth until then...but by then, he may have done so much damage to his life, and the lives around him...happiness will elude him. Until he lives authentically...and is willing to end and begin relationships honorably...he will continue to be torn up inside.

*Keep the kids out of this mess....the stuff they know is far beyond what they can handle. My heart breaks for them.

*This pregnancy was a planned accident. A doctor, a nurse...you do the math. You had one major thing this OW couldn't compete with...his children...she fixed that. He helped her.

*He wants to be undeserving of you...because it gets him off the hook. He pushes you because you're stronger than he is. If he acts badly enough, perhaps he can make you end the marriage and he doesn't have to.

The question is....what do you do now? Well, realistically, until the addiction wears off...there isn't much you CAN do....although I honestly believe your marriage is not over. The question is...do you want to live with him while that happens and he does the flipper routine? Or would you be better off in Plan B? I personally would like to see you more protected...as well as your children. Right now, as he said...he leads a double life...but you can choose whether you're willing to do the same. I hope you don't. I hope that you're able to keep the door to your marriage open, while not allowing him to continue to disrespect you by going to her, then waltzing home everytime it's convenient for him.

I would have gone seriously medieval on him a long time ago....I'd be in a Plan B so dark the sun would stop shining. But hey...that's just me.

hugs mom....and oh YEAH...that whole "intelectually incompatible" garbage....you aren't the one who looks intellectually challenged!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Read this...read this...and read this again! GOODNIGHT!!!!

(((M23B))) That's all I can say.

Anything you need, let me know. You've got my home number if you need someone to talk to...anytime...seriously, 2 AM...go for it.

This is unbelievable!

Dad, I can't believe you would be so, so....can't even think of the word.

Mom is screaming out for you...she needs you so badly to support her right now and all you can do is fight with her.

The day is coming that her father will be in peace, and you will have missed the biggest opportunity you will ever have to deposit a clink or two in the love bank, but you let it slip by.

I would hate to be in your shoes when the fog lifts and you see the real deal...the devastation and destruction you refuse to deal with. There will be things that you can no longer change. Like being with her in her greatest time of need.

I can only imagine how hard it is for her to be able to say "I NEED YOU TO HELP ME RIGHT NOW" after all you two have been through. I know that was the biggest conflict for me after d-day...needing the one that had hurt me the very worst in the whole world. It doesn't make sense. And my H ended the A on d-day and there is no OC. He didn't continue to disrespect me as you have your wife.

I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt here but refusing to go to her now while she is begging you to (or was) is beyond words.

OK, this is not going to be a "blasting D23B" post. Not generally, anyway.

D23B, if you are reading this, think about what I'm goining to tell you. It is a true story, but a little long.

Some years ago, I developed a problem with my left arm; I couldn't lift it without feeling as though something was stabbing me in the biceps. I went to doctor after doctor, but none could find the problem.

One day, I was rubbing my shoulders and noticed a difference in the feel of my left shoulder as I rubbed my hand over it. the path my hand took was not quite as smooth as it was on my right shoulder...sort of like when they're blacktopping the road and you go from the old road onto the new blacktop, KWIM?

Anyway, I figured that there must be some sort of tumor or something. So, I went to a surgeon with whom we were friendly. He examined me and gently told me, "Honey, it's just your imagination." He then gave me a series of exercises that were supposed to help my arm.

I then went to a neurological clinic. All tests were negative. The neurologist asked if I had ever broken my collarbone. No, I've never had any broken bones at all, but I did have this same problem with my arm years before, when I had fallen. Anyway, the neurologist sent me to an orthopedic group. The doctor there took X-rays. While he was looking at the X-rays, he pointed out a "fatty tumor" (lipoma sp?) that lay just beneath my collarbone, but said it would have any effect on my ability to use my arm. The tumor showed up as a dark spot. While looking at the X-ray, I noticed another dark spot at the top of my shoulder and pointed it out to him. He then sent me to a oncologist. The oncologist scheduled me for surgery and removed a "fatty tumor" that was about 6 inches long and about 2 inches in diameter and was lying beneath the muscles on my shoulder. After recuperating, I could once again use my arm.

OK, that was the background for what I really want you to think about, which I am going to tell you about next:

Some months later, we were at a party, along with the surgeon who diagnosed my "imagination". We had not seen him in quite some time, and he did not know about my surgery. His wife, whom I had never met before, was with him.

Upon seeing my scar, he asked, "Who have you been letting cut on you? What kind of surgery have you had?"

I very nonchalantly said, "Oh, that? I just had my imagination taken out!" Well, he turned beet red, to his wife's great amusement. She insisted on knowing the whole story, so I told her.

She gave a chuckle and said, "Well, I'm really glad to know about this. It will come in handy the next time he gets to thinking he's God!"

I must have looked surprised, as she went on to tell me (as best as I can recall). "My husband is a really good man, and I love him to pieces; but, he's just like almost all the other doctors I know. He sometimes gets hung up on how many lives he's saved and how he deserves whatever he wants because he is such a great doctor. Sometimes, he needs to be reminded that he is not infallible, just so that we can stand to be in the same house with him."

A few years later, I saw him (he is a great doctor, BTW, despite his failure to diagnose my problem), and he said (kiddingly), "Gal, I ought to slap you for telling my wife about your "imagination". Everytime I try to lay down the law at home, she smiles at me and asks, "Have you operated on any imaginations lately?" He then went on to say that he realized that the only time she would ask him that was when he was being a total jerk and acting like he was entitled to have his way all the time. He really has a wonderful sense of humor and a pretty even disposition.

So, D23B (and Lemonman, too), y'all try to keep that little story in mind the next time y'all get into a p***ing match. And, D23B, being a doctor does not make you intellectually superior to M23B. Yeah, you have to be smart to be a doctor, but M23B is pretty danged smart, too. On the other hand, a woman who decides to get pregnant in an attempt to steal another woman's husband is pretty danged stupid in my book.

Oh, and about M23B's lunch date and emails? Well, it seemed to me at that time, she pretty much figured that you were gone and not coming back. Is she supposed to WASTE her life sitting around waiting for you to make up your mind?

My H slipped up last weekend and made reference to a "relationship that ended when she got killed in a car wreck". Problem is...the car wreck was 3 months AFTER we got married (34 years ago). This was a total new revelation for me, and it has pushed me to the point of actively making plans to leave him for all the years of lies.

The next day, he actually asked me, "What about your affair with David (an ex-boyfriend)? WHAT? Let's see. This guy moved 800 miles away right after we broke up, although he did write me a letter shortly before H and I married to ask me if we still had a chance. I tore the letter up and never responded. Then, David called one night about a year after we married. I wasn't home, and H talked to him. He told H that he was just wondering how I was doing. H went out and got drunk over it.

A couple of years after that, David came to our town on vacation. He dropped by my work, and we spent maybe 15 minutes chatting. How's your mom? What are your brothers and sister doing nowadays? That sort of thing.

About 3 years after that, David and his new wife came by our house. I didn't realize that his wife was in the car, and told him that I couldn't invite him in because my husband wouldn't like it. Again, I was just nice to him, and he left within a few minutes.

I told my H about ALL these instances. A few years ago, yes, I did find David's email address and we exchanged a few friendly emails. Again, I told H about the emails. This time, he didn't care (this was during the time he was in love with "Cafe Woman"). The next year, David and his new wife came to visit. We had them over for supper, and H liked David very much. The next year, we went on a trip and stopped in their town for a couple of days. They showed us around, and we all had a great time. His wife is a wonderful person, and there has never been anything in any of our emails that either she or my H could find objectionable. Once in a great while, we'll send each other a "Hi, how ya' doing?" email or include each other in a mass emailing of a joke. Again, I tell H about ALL of it. And this is an affair? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So, get over it, D23B. Maybe, Mom was tempted, but the point is that she STOPPED when the impropriety wsa pointed out to her!

And, BTW, Dad, if y'all haven't already done so, you need to burn the bedroom set, mattress and all, and surprise Mom with a nice new one!

Hmmmm, choices, choices and more choices.

With every choice comes consequence. The choice to have an A has a consequence. The choice to have sex has consequences. The choice to try and have it all has consequence. The choice to place your interests above all others has consequence. The choice to neglect your family has consequence. The choice to ignore reason and operate on the "pleasure principle" has consequence. The choice to appear on Dr. Phil has consequence. Alienating those that could help you most is...a choice!

Being responsible for the choices we make is what separates adults from children.

Ironically, it is usually our bad choices that can teach us the most, provided we are receptive to the lessons that can help us grow and be a better person afterwards.

Change is scary but, life without growth and change is stagnation and in the end it is boredom, unhappiness and a soul searching for it's true potential.

Dad2,

Are you and Mom2 trying to become MB's next SNL and Thinker? In case you're not familiar with them, that's not a compliment Dad2. Please rethink your posting strategy.

Right now you have a golden opportunity to be a rock for Mom2 while she is trying to stay focused on her dad for the little time he has left. I think you want to be the rock, but it's hard to give up all the attention these dramas bring, isn't it?

Dad2, just concentrate on YOUR part in stopping the drama and concentrate on YOUR part in eliminating LBs and filling ENs. That's all YOU can do.

My suggestion is to implement a strict NC with OW for at least until Mom2's dad passes and she is through the initial stages of grief. Mom2 is at her worst right now and it is not fair to Mom2, your boys, or yourself to allow OW to take advantage of that. You can always start up contact with OW again later, but you will never be able to go back and do this time of Mom2's dad's passing over again.

If you and Mom2 end up rebuilding your marriage, Mom2 will respect you for stepping up now. If you two don't rebuild, you will respect yourself for stepping up now. In either case, your boys will respect you for it (moreso as they get older).

Be the rock for now Dad2. Your family needs a rock, and right now Mom2 cannot be it. So that leaves......YOU! Being the rock is a winning proposition for you whether you rebuild your marriage or not. Running away from this opportunity is a losing proposition for you whether you rebuild or not.

Take care Dad2

mgm,
simply...nicely said.

dadto3,

Nope...not me. I didn't "crucify" you. I might be the ONLY one who brought up the Cher concert...with one other person's comment following. So, you cannot accuse me of that.

If you POJAed her not posting here...and she went ahead and did it...then that's wrong.

I wonder if Dr. Phil knows that you both are continuing to play out your drama on a MARRIAGEBUILDING site, while he is trying to help you get your marriage back on track? Have you told him about all the "he said, she said" that is going back and forth on this forum? It seems that it would be counterproductive to what the outcome SHOULD be...which is saving your marriage.

I have maintained all along that BOTH of you are contributors in some shape form or fashion to this whole mess. That in NO way absolves you of the affair though, so don't get me wrong.

I think someone mentioned that you two might be trying to become the infamous "SNL and Thinker". That isn't a compliment to either one of you.

If you really want to save your marriage, you might want to stop playing it out on this board while you have a therapist (I presume he has that title) on board trying to help you.

I certainly do not see this board helping in ANY fashion. Your marriage and your life has turned into a circus.

JMHO
committed

<small>[ November 13, 2004, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

MGM,

I just wanted to let you know I pasted your post on choices to my notebook, just in case I have to read it to my DD someday, (or read it to myself from time to time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

Very well said!